Comments on: Dangers of historic rape convictions

By: Lisa

Lisa — Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:41:49 +0000

I wonder if Tracie now believes that lightning can strike twice!!!Me thinks not. Interesting as the suppressed details have been made available to see a pattern emerging. As the saying goes “be sure your sins will find you out” and that in my opinion has no time constraints attached. Working with people who are dying gives me another perspective on such matters and that is that as people are dying it is always about relationships. Hardly ever about wishing for better jobs or flasher cars or bigger houses…always about relationships. I take some solace in this as people who have perhaps ‘got away’ with crimes thru the criminal justice system do not really get away with it at all. They KNOW absolutely what they have (or haven’t) done and I’m sure the torment of such matters revisits them if not during the course of their life times, certainly on their death bed. Not justice for their victims who have more than likely revisited and been traumatised by the event(s), but some comfort none the less.

By: Tracie

Tracie — Mon, 09 Jan 2006 10:17:02 +0000

Ihope you are right Rosie! my brother is one of the men seeking an appeal on the sentence imposed on them as a result of what I can only describe as a travesty of justice.When one refers to corroborating evidence, not only was there an entire absence of it, but sadly several major alleged”facts” were absolutley disproved, by the defense.To what avail? the judge instructed the jury to choose whose story they believed, he also had the poor taste to remind them of all the publicity that people were exposed to in several very high profile cases of historical rape and just to disregard these matters.( a nice reminder!)16 years and in all that time the “victim” never told a soul…no one, never even alluded to it to anyone. Now as a woman myself i freely admit that I do not discuss everything with friends, but it does seem rather questionable that the one time that one would mention such a huge issue is after high profile publicity,. Like cathy I too sat through the court case and never ever have I felt so disempowered by a process. These men had no chance at justice…none.The entire case was a sham. I now fully support the statute of limitations, at least that way we would all have a chance to remember what may be a significant piece of memory that could prevent an 8 year sentence like my brother got. I ask you… can you remember what you were wearing 16 years ago, in january on a friday? this might one day becoming the defining difference in who will believe you or your accuser!
Cathy was right also, the jury were disrepectful and lacking in attention, not once did the judge direct them to the task at hand.It was over before it began. a sad indictment on what our society has become.

By: Rosie

Rosie — Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:40:40 +0000

I believe the four men involved in the Historic Rape case are having their Appeal heard in Februray I wish them every Success. In my mind the trial was a Miscarrige of Justice.

By: Moose

Moose — Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:33:33 +0000

Shona,

It sickens me to hear of this act of horror which happened to you as a young wee lass.

I myself have seen the emotional, and lifetime effects of rape for a Woman (My sister) So I sympathise with you for that, and it is a tragedy that justice could not be served as it should have done.

I guess that when your rape occured, the Law was biased towards men, but since then a lot of effort has gone into resolving that issue.

And so the pendulum swung. And now we are at the point where I believe the law is now biased against Men.

So, In 50 years or so (excuse the metaphor) if the pendulum swings equally, we may see Media hype, and rediculous laws against women, and Men making false accusations against Women for similar reasons Women make false accusations against Men today – because they know the law is biased, and so they take advantage of the opportunity, for whatever reasons – vengeance, custody – whatever.

And so the truth is never heard, and true justice is never served.

I believe the law will never be purely just, as long as money controls the world.

But know this – false rape allegations are a common thing now. Especially because ‘victims’ are awarded a princely sum, there is every incentive for a female to ‘give it a go’.

I hope you see that these females who make these false allegations are ruining it for those of you who have real allegations to make.

By: Shona

Shona — Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:15:57 +0000

oh dear, I was doing some research on historical rape and came across this. I was absolutely horrified to read that 60-80% of rape complaints are considered to be false by the police. I am a 42 year old woman who was raped at the age of 15. Charges were laid at the time(section 128 and 129 of the Crimes Act 1961 – rape and attempted rape). For some reason, the mongrel who raped me walked free. He wasnt even had up for carnal knowledge. He was judged not guilty which left me living for the past 27 years with a guilty verdict hanging over me from the community that I live in. I have lived through hell for the past 27 years, unable to form proper relationships and being branded a liar. Where is the justice in this? I have recently tried to obtain proper justice, but I have nowhere to turn, because the justice system of 1979 decided that I had no recourse because of him being judged not guilty. I cant even have the satisfaction of calling the mongrel a rapist, because the justice system said he wasnt. Because of my own experiences, I really have difficulty in believing these figures of “false complaints”. To me, some of these false complaints may just be rapes that cant be proved, and the woman involved has to live all their life with the consequences. Some justice!!

By: Cathy Hales

Cathy Hales — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:45:40 +0000

I sat through the trial every day and could not see how the Jury could have possibly convicted. There was so much doubt.
It is less painful to blame someone else than to admit ones own personal failings.
The Jury disbelieved the evidence of the defendants, when one of the accused gave evidence or one of the four defence council was addressing the court or a witness -the Jury were gigling to themselves passing notes to each other and at times sleeping.
Without corroborating evidence oof rape this trial was deemed to fail from the onset.
In this case Justice was not seen to be done.

By: JohnP

JohnP — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:26:28 +0000

Kel
As far as I know, no men associated with this site think it is OK for women to be raped, or for offenders to go unpunished.

However, if you put the gender politics to one side for a minute and consider the facts, the situation is a little different than what you portray.

For a start, you have to remember the majority of rape accusations are false (60 – 80 % according to police).

There are a number of women who are “serial accusers”; they repeatedly use false claims of sexual abuse as a weapon to hurt men, knowing they are unlikely to be called to account.

To compound the problem, if a man is criminally charged as a result, the jury is never allowed to hear that the complainant has a long history of making false accusations. They will also not be warned that a conviction in the absense of evidence is highly dangerous.

As a result, the whole system of justice is undermined, and the basis of our society is severely damaged. When ten law professors sign a petition calling for a Commission of Inquiry into the Peter Ellis frame-up and the way the sex-abuse industry opperates, you better believe something is badly wrong.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:46:17 +0000

Kel,
I’m afraid your posting is no substitute for sound reasoning.
Let’s get a few things straight.
First off, if you look properly at this thread you’ll see NOBODY is discouraging women from reporting rape historical or recent. Nor slandering and verbally bashing them either as you state.
We simply deplore (and rightly fear) the fact that now in NZ a woman can make a mere allegation against men of rape and destroy their lives WITH NO CORROBORATING EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!
To label our horror and protesting against such an obvious injustice ‘cruel’ only adds insult to injury.
I doubt that trying to guilt trip us by saying ‘what if it’s your daughter next time?’ makes any sense whatsoever either.
You should more usefully ask ‘WHAT IF IT”S YOUR SON WHO’S CONVICTED WITHOUT CORROBORATING EVIDENCE OF RAPE?’

By: kel

kel — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:56:14 +0000

i cant beleive the cruelty of you people!
this is exactly why many women (yes WOMEN, not WIMMIN!)do not report rape immediately! has it ever occoured to you that the victim may have spent the last 16 years trying to hide the truth of what happened to her, untill it finally became too much to conceal? i commend any victim of sexual assault for the bravery of coming into the open and letting her abuser(s) take responsibility for the pain and suffering they have caused, no matter how long after the event. these women should be admired for their strength, not slandered and verbally bashed.
rape happens,and will happen again,what if it’s your daughter next time?

By: Moose

Moose — Fri, 05 Aug 2005 04:50:55 +0000

Sorry for being ingnorant in this matter, but that’s what I meant : Either she would A) have had to keep her underpants for 16 years unwashed etc, or B) somehow kept a sample of the semen somewhere ? If she took either option A or B, wouldn’t that be more effort to wait that length of time, ensuring the undies/sample were well preserved etc rather than go to a GP or the police straight after the alleged event took place ? Please help me I’m having trouble with this.