> (continuing the discussion on alt.support.loneliness, before the mods
> cut it off on ssl)

what’s ssl?

> As a lonely, passive guy who has not dated hardly at all - and has made
> plenty of female ‘friends’ - can you tell me why I cannot get a
> girlfriend and why I am so unfillfilled? Why is it that the agressive
> guys who make strong sexual advances on women wind up with the best
> women? By ‘best’ I do not in every case mean ‘best looking’ - ‘cute’ but
> smart, charasmatic, and funny women seem to wind up with such guys, too.

Because that’s the game we are all expected to play. Quite effective for
animal reproduction and strengthening the species but rather degrading
for sentient beings, of either sex, who are capable of love. But if you
don’t play the game you are unlikely to get a prize.

> > What *EVER* happened to romance/love developing out of a friendship?

What indeed. Once upon a time I moved to a new town and made new friends. One
friend, who happened to be of the opposite sex, became a very good friend.
Then, one day, the inevitable happened and the relationship changed from
being friendship to being something we interpreted as love. How I actually
thought of it was that the love was an enhancement of the friendship - I
should have known better but I did not. Soon afterwards, we were married.
Even sooner after that it became blatently obvious that most of what we
had as friends had gone. What was left was different but not as good.

Some years later we separated. I really think if we had resisted the
biological urge and remained “just” friends, we would have gotten along
much better.

Maybe its better if friendship develops out of love/romance. Really, it
seems better that way round if it can work. Friendship can be for life,
romance lasts about three years - just long enough for nature to ensure
a child.

> It happens, but I think it is the exception, not the rule. Several women
> (who seem to have no trouble getting dates) have told me not to wait too
> long after meeting a woman to express romantic interest in her, because
> if you wait too long, she will never think of you as a potential
> boyfriend because you are her ‘friend’. The ‘friends first’ idea is a
> lofty ideal that I think rarely happens in real life.

Agreed. The best you can expect is to find a sister - which is no bad
thing except that it may not be what you want.

> > But I can’t believe, as tough as the
> > last few months/years have been for me, that being alone in a
> > relationship is better than being alone by myself.

I agree. If you’re going to be alone then better to have the freedom that
goes with it.

> I behave this way, too, as you do, but I know not having a woman - any
> woman - makes it harder to find a new one. Remember the old expression
> ‘Can’t get a job unless you have a job?’ I think I need to reevaluate
> this idea.

Good grief! And here I thought this discussion was between people who
had a respect for people. Silly me.

I had a nice date last night. We went to the art museum (this being
NYC, you know which one I mean) and then to a diner (ugh, diners — but
it was her suggestion, right, and she’s the girl). Very nice night,
interesting conversation, I think she likes me, the way things worked
out my subway was right there waiting for me and I jumped right in
(since she didn’t want me to walk her home so we were to part right
there) and then she sort of calls after me, “I’d call but I have no way
of reaching you” since I don’t have a telephone (I don’t need it) and I
tell her I’ll call her instead.

So it was all very nice and tidy and this girl is pretty and shapely,
even if rather too old for me (only two years my junior). And I’m
wondering, well, what do you really need a girl for, anyway?

I mean, if you’re not emotionally needy and can live very happily by
yourself — like me — well, what’s the “incentive” for dating? The
more I date the more I find that I really don’t like most girls, anyway
– at least not American girls, who think they know it all because of
feminist bullshit but I find that they know less than their college
degrees would suggest (I’ve met psychology grads who’ve barely heard of
Freud, or sociology grads who barely know of Webber, or philosophy
double-majors who don’t seem to like Socratic discourse — and of
course the 9/11-and-Iraq-are-related PoliSci girls). I mean, I
honestly find more meaningful company here on usenet (hehe — but then
again, maybe sexy girls are necessarily stupid? I guess you’ve got to
be stupid, no matter how high your GPA, in order to show off your body
like a porn star and still insist on a guy respecting your
“intelligence”).

So anyway, I’m just wondering if there are any of you out there who
honestly prefer the single life, and only use women for sex. I think I
might start doing this. ‘Cause I honestly can’t figure out what I need
a woman for anymore besides that. Everything they say is so
predictable anyway, the only reason I’m dating is ’cause I’m horny.
But there’s such a thing involving respect and sex and intimacy and
love and all that, and you know, it’s weird having to play games (come
on, you almost can’t be honest: I once pissed off a girl by joking that
she should get beaten up by cops after she told me she liked being
choked during sex).

Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y’all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

There is no such thing as a “soul mate”. The sooner you quit looking for
a meaningful relationship the sooner you can start enjoying random sex
on a frequent basis.

This is becoming an issue since, at 34, these are my last years at a
shot at the under-20 crowd of girls. Pretty soon I’ll have to consider
coeds as the youngest I can do! But maybe by then I won’t care so
much. Right now, though, I feel like an older woman simply doesn’t
*deserve* me — I’m just too good for a woman-on-a-mission with a
biological clock ticking away like a suicide bomb! I feel like my
youthful looks would be wasted on a woman my age, not to mention my
disdain at having to settle for a used woman.

> It’s very sad that there are such games — to be the best but pretend
> not to care about being the best (because it makes others insecure or
> jealous). That’s *precisely* how it is with most girls, games: there
> is mutual attraction, but the girl likes to act nonchalant, etc.

From my experience this is 100% true and if you dont pick up on those games
it’s hopeless.

never used to be this bad just two months ago because I was still in my
university town. So I had lots of acquaintances and one true friend and
about 3 good friends. But I was still lonely here cause of the girl thing.
It’s gotten worse since I came home because I dont know anyone at home. I
literally know maybe two people and I haven’t talked to them in years. It
takes a lot of ‘forced time’ with me to become friends - mostly at work. If
people are forced to spend hours with me for months on end eventually I have
a group of friends. I guess I dont have an attractive personality so without
that it’s hopeless. Social phobic I guess, well lack of social skills
anyway.

And yeah I’m picky in that I dont date women I find unattractive. But as one
of my good friends says ‘I have no standards’. On the street I’d find about
80% of women attractive so it’s not like I’m really picky just I dont wanna
go out with women I find unattractive. A super-hot friend of mine, used to
constantly say ’show some confidence you’d have anyone’. But it’s almost
impossible to show confidence when no one has ever given you a reason to be
confident. Women get complements every single day. I might get ‘hair looks
nice’. And besides, I think they confuse confidence with ‘outgoing
personality’.

I think I finally figured out women recently. All these years I was making the
mistake of watching how women treated other men as if it set some standard for
how they would treat me. The truth though is quite different. A woman could be
a stomping bitch to 95% of men and she is only nice to the 5% who meet her high
standards.

So “nice” in women is a behavior put on as an act to get what they want. They
are “nice” to the football quarterback because if he was her boyfriend he could
bring her high status. They are not “nice” to anyone else because they don’t
offer her anything. So this phony “nice” quality you keep looking for in women
is just acting, it’s a false self applied to gain advantage. Deep down no women
are nice at all. Women are psychotic egoist monsters and I’m glad I finally
understand. These rest of you should wake up as well and you will feel much
better.

Even if you are a great looking stud, that “niceness” you see from women is
still phony. You are living a lie if you believe any of that is real. You are
merely reaping the advantages of a system that is favorable to you.

>I think I finally figured out women recently.

Good; then you must have come to the conclusion that free and equal women are
much more like men than different.

All these years I was making

>the>mistake of watching how women treated other men as if it set some

standard>for>how they would treat me. The truth though is quite different. A
woman could>be>a stomping bitch to 95% of men and she is only nice to the 5%
who meet her>high>standards.

Are you suggesting that women should NOT have “high standards”?

>So “nice” in women is a behavior put on as an act to get what they want.

I have news for you; everybody WANTS something, even men, even men like you.
Some men want pretty; some men want wives; some men just want sex. Everyone
trades. So, if you’re trying to make women look special for wanting something
from life, be my guest, but don’t expect me to do anything but smile.

They>are “nice” to the football quarterback because if he was her boyfriend
he>could>bring her high status.

And, why is the “quarterback” interested in dating Miss Status? Do you think
he admires her brain and heart? You’re funny.

They are not “nice” to anyone else because they don’t offer her anything.

Everyone trades Eric; even my wise old grandmammy taught me that. She said
that all of life is a trade, even when you trade love for love, so be careful
what you trade for. That football player is just as likely trading for looks
as she is trading for status. It’s a trade.

So this phony “nice” quality you keep looking for in>women>is just acting,
it’s a false self applied to gain advantage.

Pretending that men aren’t ‘trading’ status or money for looks is a real loser;
no one will believe you. Men trade just like women do. Thus, a truely smart
man and smart woman will look for something real to trade for. Looks dim, and
after graduation, how many men who used to play football end up selling used
cars?
Isn’t it smarter to trade love and value for love and value?

Deep down no>women are nice at all.

“Deep down”, free and equal women don’t owe you or any other man “niceness”.
Did you really think that women had some duty to be nice to you just because
you’re male? How stupid.

Women are psychotic egoist monsters and I’m glad I finally>understand.

You “understand” nothing; your feelings have obviously been hurt and you’re
dealing with that by blaming women . Happens all the time. Keep in mind that
women and men have much more in common than different. However, in a free and
equal society, men often complain when women have no special duties toward men.
What men like that may not realize is that a slave will never love a master
and that the real love between women and men is made of mutuality. All else is
dross.

These rest of you should wake up as well and you will feel much>better.

Hahahahaha. Well, good luck to you, Eric on growing past your hurt and finding
the kind of love you seek.

Each colony is a family unit, comprising a single egg-laying female …The
workers cooperate in the food gathering, nest building and rearing offspring.
Males are reared only at times of year when their presence is required.
(Secret Life of Bees)

> quite different. A woman could be a stomping bitch to 95% of men and
> she is only nice to the 5% who meet her high standards.

Don’t you have standards? Aren’t there women that you see that you
would never date under any circumstances?

> understand. These rest of you should wake up as well and you will
> feel much better.

Hmm, sounds like you got burnt bad. I used to feel the way you do. I
blamed all women for the insensitive and callous actions of one. Get
over it. I did. If you don’t lose that sorry attitude, you will only
hurt yourself in the long run. People can sense attitudes like yours,
and it forms a barrier around you, effectively pushing them away.

Do you *really* want women to be nice to you? Adjust your attitude,
even if you have to fake it for awhile. Drop the barrier. I won’t say
*every* woman will be nice to you, but *some* will.

Are you afraid of being rejected? Newsflash, so is everyone else. Get
over it. Everyone gets rejected at one time or another, some more than
others. My guess is, at one time or another you may have rejected a
woman or two who may have been interested in you.

Of all the women out there, there is at least one out there for you.
How likely are you to find her? I don’t know, but I do know this; your
present attitude definitely reduces your chances considerably.