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	<title>Comments on: Questionable Family Lawyers Targeted</title>
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	<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/</link>
	<description>- promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience -</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Dec 2008 10:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bevan Berg</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44759</link>
		<dc:creator>Bevan Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 02:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44759</guid>
		<description>In reply John – Re October 2000 MENZ Issues.

These people act with impunity, and their behaviour doesn’t improve as complaints are never acted upon.  When the state is concerned with its own interests rather than that of its citizens, then there is little option other than to get personal.  Looking back at history, one can only say, it was an effective protest, and the North Shore Family Court got a whole more friendly when the Silly Bitch left, shortly after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply John – Re October 2000 MENZ Issues.</p>
<p>These people act with impunity, and their behaviour doesn’t improve as complaints are never acted upon.  When the state is concerned with its own interests rather than that of its citizens, then there is little option other than to get personal.  Looking back at history, one can only say, it was an effective protest, and the North Shore Family Court got a whole more friendly when the Silly Bitch left, shortly after.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnP</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44752</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 23:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44752</guid>
		<description>I must say I'm not personally comfortable with protests targeting individual's homes, although I fully understand the motivation. Commercial premises and public buildings are fair game I reckon, but private houses smacks too much of intimidation. I think groups like the Australian Blackshirts who regularly use these tactics actually harm efforts to raise public support.

I fully agree with Jim's comments in the &lt;a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=000DC26B-249C-1429-9C4983027AF1010E" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;em&gt;NZ Herald&lt;/em&gt; article&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Union of Fathers president Jim Bagnall said he did not know what the protests outside lawyer's homes would achieve.

"But we have seen what pressure has achieved from our Family Court protests for six years. We got a change in the law. "

He said the Union of Fathers would evaluate the effectiveness of the demonstrations before deciding whether to continue.

"I personally don't like it very much because it gets down to a form of tribalism. But on the other hand ... children's human rights in this [Family] court are being violated in a gross way." 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I also think we need to be very aware of the danger of an 'agent provocateur' or two initiating some illegal act designed to destroy the credibility of Union of Fathers. This tactic seems to have stopped the very successful UK Fathers4Justice group in its tracks.

I have discussed this issue previously, in the editorial for the &lt;a href="http://menz.org.nz/MENZ%20Issues/2000/Oct%2000/Oct00.htm#Energy" rel="nofollow"&gt;October 2000 MENZ Issues&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say I&#8217;m not personally comfortable with protests targeting individual&#8217;s homes, although I fully understand the motivation. Commercial premises and public buildings are fair game I reckon, but private houses smacks too much of intimidation. I think groups like the Australian Blackshirts who regularly use these tactics actually harm efforts to raise public support.</p>
<p>I fully agree with Jim&#8217;s comments in the <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=000DC26B-249C-1429-9C4983027AF1010E" rel="nofollow"><em>NZ Herald</em> article</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Union of Fathers president Jim Bagnall said he did not know what the protests outside lawyer&#8217;s homes would achieve.</p>
<p>&#8220;But we have seen what pressure has achieved from our Family Court protests for six years. We got a change in the law. &#8221;</p>
<p>He said the Union of Fathers would evaluate the effectiveness of the demonstrations before deciding whether to continue.</p>
<p>&#8220;I personally don&#8217;t like it very much because it gets down to a form of tribalism. But on the other hand &#8230; children&#8217;s human rights in this [Family] court are being violated in a gross way.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>I also think we need to be very aware of the danger of an &#8216;agent provocateur&#8217; or two initiating some illegal act designed to destroy the credibility of Union of Fathers. This tactic seems to have stopped the very successful UK Fathers4Justice group in its tracks.</p>
<p>I have discussed this issue previously, in the editorial for the <a href="http://menz.org.nz/MENZ%20Issues/2000/Oct%2000/Oct00.htm#Energy" rel="nofollow">October 2000 MENZ Issues</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: paulc</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44645</link>
		<dc:creator>paulc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44645</guid>
		<description>Dear Kevin,

The targeted lawyers are not drawn at random from the Yellow Pages.
They have subjected themselves to this form of protest because of family devastation they have willingly abetted.
The judge &#38; jury does consist of a panel of peers, who are dedicated in trying to establish the concept of equal parenting despite the obstructional practices of all that are fed from the belly of the System.
Our panel is formed from a coalition of fathers/parent interest groups, and have well over 60 years collective experience with our own and our further involvement in the assisting of others who fall as prey in this devastating and profitable Industry.
We are fully aware which apples in the barrel are free from taint.

Regards
Paul Catton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Kevin,</p>
<p>The targeted lawyers are not drawn at random from the Yellow Pages.<br />
They have subjected themselves to this form of protest because of family devastation they have willingly abetted.<br />
The judge &amp; jury does consist of a panel of peers, who are dedicated in trying to establish the concept of equal parenting despite the obstructional practices of all that are fed from the belly of the System.<br />
Our panel is formed from a coalition of fathers/parent interest groups, and have well over 60 years collective experience with our own and our further involvement in the assisting of others who fall as prey in this devastating and profitable Industry.<br />
We are fully aware which apples in the barrel are free from taint.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Paul Catton</p>
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		<title>By: STEVE2</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44613</link>
		<dc:creator>STEVE2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44613</guid>
		<description>thanks Kevin. It just goes to show that the judges and lawyers do not exercise sound judgement of BEING FAIR. Instead become the 'pencil' pushers of the court system just relying on biased policies to cover their behinds.

Had they exercised sound judgement in the first place, your second incident would not have occurred nor would there have been the need to waste court time, money and strong emotions</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Kevin. It just goes to show that the judges and lawyers do not exercise sound judgement of BEING FAIR. Instead become the &#8216;pencil&#8217; pushers of the court system just relying on biased policies to cover their behinds.</p>
<p>Had they exercised sound judgement in the first place, your second incident would not have occurred nor would there have been the need to waste court time, money and strong emotions</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44610</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44610</guid>
		<description>I want to add that my first appearance in court was infront of a female judge. I was shocked at what I experienced as hatred displayed toward me by her. I felt I had reason to take her life at the time. Down-stream I appeared before her again, this time, from my point of view, she was brilliant and my hero. 

I'm just making the point that we cannot expect perfection from individuals that operate in one of the most emotionally driven courts in the system. Consistent patterns of bias I will protest against.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to add that my first appearance in court was infront of a female judge. I was shocked at what I experienced as hatred displayed toward me by her. I felt I had reason to take her life at the time. Down-stream I appeared before her again, this time, from my point of view, she was brilliant and my hero. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just making the point that we cannot expect perfection from individuals that operate in one of the most emotionally driven courts in the system. Consistent patterns of bias I will protest against.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44609</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44609</guid>
		<description>Don’t want to be a wet blanket but caution should be exercised here. Who is to be judge&#38; jury that the lawyer is guilty of ignoring the Child’s best interests? I am happy to condemn a professional who acts unprofessionally but the problem with issues dealt with in the family court is that it’s not about science. Before a lawyer is condemned why don’t we organise a jury (amongst our peers) to look at the case against them. To condemn a lawyer without proper cause would bring us down to a level that we are campaigning against</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t want to be a wet blanket but caution should be exercised here. Who is to be judge&amp; jury that the lawyer is guilty of ignoring the Child’s best interests? I am happy to condemn a professional who acts unprofessionally but the problem with issues dealt with in the family court is that it’s not about science. Before a lawyer is condemned why don’t we organise a jury (amongst our peers) to look at the case against them. To condemn a lawyer without proper cause would bring us down to a level that we are campaigning against</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bailey</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44608</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44608</guid>
		<description>Great Stuff
Full article: &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Why-300000-PlusNZKidsWithoutDADtonight-HELEN "&gt;Why-300000-PlusNZKidsWithoutDADtonight-HELEN&lt;/a&gt; - Pictures of the 2XVans and protestors in action to follow
Regards - Jim - www.HandsOnEqualParent.org.nz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Stuff<br />
Full article: <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Why-300000-PlusNZKidsWithoutDADtonight-HELEN ">Why-300000-PlusNZKidsWithoutDADtonight-HELEN</a> - Pictures of the 2XVans and protestors in action to follow<br />
Regards - Jim - <a href="http://www.HandsOnEqualParent.org.nz" rel="nofollow">http://www.HandsOnEqualParent.org.nz</a></p>
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		<title>By: Moose</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44599</link>
		<dc:creator>Moose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44599</guid>
		<description>I found Simon Maudes comments in the Herald quite amusing.

Quoting : "...whose task and responsibility it is to represent father, mother and child without fear or favour"

I didn't think it possible, but it appears they [the judges] believe that they are actually being fair with thier rulings.

Although I guess they are just exercising the law laid down, but somehow it doesn't seem right : To be a Judge, do you have to have no concept of morality ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found Simon Maudes comments in the Herald quite amusing.</p>
<p>Quoting : &#8220;&#8230;whose task and responsibility it is to represent father, mother and child without fear or favour&#8221;</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t think it possible, but it appears they [the judges] believe that they are actually being fair with thier rulings.</p>
<p>Although I guess they are just exercising the law laid down, but somehow it doesn&#8217;t seem right : To be a Judge, do you have to have no concept of morality ?</p>
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		<title>By: DAVE L</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2006/questionable-family-lawyers-targeted/#comment-44594</link>
		<dc:creator>DAVE L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=486#comment-44594</guid>
		<description>Paul what you are doing is just great these "family destroying lawers" that are aided by the "family destroying courts" are long over due a bit of back-lash from us dads that they have been ripped off so badly for so long.I have not been able to attend the  last two visits to the scum lawers as you call them,So I look foward to being there next time and invite all you other dads who have been shafted by these so called lawers to join us Watch this space for time &#38; place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul what you are doing is just great these &#8220;family destroying lawers&#8221; that are aided by the &#8220;family destroying courts&#8221; are long over due a bit of back-lash from us dads that they have been ripped off so badly for so long.I have not been able to attend the  last two visits to the scum lawers as you call them,So I look foward to being there next time and invite all you other dads who have been shafted by these so called lawers to join us Watch this space for time &amp; place.</p>
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