Comments on: The Wrath of IRD http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/ - promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience - Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:12:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: k lauderdale http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108704 k lauderdale Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:06:36 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108704 Regarding the original issue same happened to me in upward Departure order.The State works for the state not for us. The crown Solicitors are only interested in their pay it's not a gender issue. I'm all for more personal responsibility and nil state involvement...it's not working for any of us. Cheers Regarding the original issue same happened to me in upward Departure order.The State works for the state not for us. The crown Solicitors are only interested in their pay it’s not a gender issue. I’m all for more personal responsibility and nil state involvement…it’s not working for any of us. Cheers

]]> By: Intrepid http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108490 Intrepid Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:11:51 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108490 Dear Lauderdale, Yes, it is these pesky citizens that are to blame for the need of the fox-leadership to have high taxes. In your words: <blockquote>one of the reasons we have high tax is because of the lack of responsibility liable parents take for their kids</blockquote> Hmm.. I smell a bureaucrat rationalizing their eating at the public troff. <blockquote>Family income does not suddenly become individual income and it is often used as a stick to punish parents and children with who dare to assert their right not to be controlled or abused. </blockquote> Yes, this money belongs to the bureaucrats to take there share and then play social enginnering experiments that fail and are thus blamed on the new Jews for their games(men). <blockquote>The amounts awarded in cases to date have been pathetic compared to the real cost of childraising and loss of income as a result.</blockquote> Is that the amount before you take your government share for you job, or after? I'm confused, are you offering to give up part of your public sector salary or job to make sure kids get more money? I guess not. Maybe you can claim you work in the private sector and spend other people's words on top of other people's money. <blockquote>We are headed for disaster and it is the Men who need to assert their role and commit to their kids who will change this.</blockquote> Yes disaster is coming, but it squarely lies with the liars who fain carrying as they undermine families with the high aloof tone on the self-rightious. Dear Lauderdale,
Yes, it is these pesky citizens that are to blame for the need of the fox-leadership to have high taxes. In your words:

one of the reasons we have high tax is because of the lack of responsibility liable parents take for their kids

Hmm.. I smell a bureaucrat rationalizing their eating at the public troff.

Family income does not suddenly become individual income and it is often used as a stick to punish parents and children with who dare to assert their right not to be controlled or abused.

Yes, this money belongs to the bureaucrats to take there share and then play social enginnering experiments that fail and are thus blamed on the new Jews for their games(men).

The amounts awarded in cases to date have been pathetic compared to the real cost of childraising and loss of income as a result.

Is that the amount before you take your government share for you job, or after? I’m confused, are you offering to give up part of your public sector salary or job to make sure kids get more money? I guess not. Maybe you can claim you work in the private sector and spend other people’s words on top of other people’s money.

We are headed for disaster and it is the Men who need to assert their role and commit to their kids who will change this.

Yes disaster is coming, but it squarely lies with the liars who fain carrying as they undermine families with the high aloof tone on the self-rightious.

]]> By: Scrap_The_CSA http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108488 Scrap_The_CSA Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:32:08 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108488 Thats right, I forgot its all the fault of those evil deadbeatdads and those nasty high income earners, that are responsible for the legislative mess. And lets not forget those who pay the minimum because obvivously they are all understating their income! Because as you so eloquently espouse all you are interested in spousal maintenace. To you its all about dollars to me its about creatring the best outcome for kiwi kids. As to case law and retrospective departures : There are two published and one unplished decision from the High Court. Two against retrospective departures and one allowing retrospective departure in limited circumstances. IRD have for a number of years not issued retrospective depatrures via admin review. There has now been a direction from within IRD to change this position and they see their best chance at succeeding by piting crown law against a self represented parent. Anyway its nice to read a comment that engenders laughter. Please feel free to preach to the unbelivers but dont expect many conversions. Regards Scrap Thats right, I forgot its all the fault of those evil deadbeatdads and those nasty high income earners, that are responsible for the legislative mess.
And lets not forget those who pay the minimum because obvivously they are all understating their income!

Because as you so eloquently espouse all you are interested in spousal maintenace.
To you its all about dollars to me its about creatring the best outcome for kiwi kids.
As to case law and retrospective departures : There are two published and one unplished decision from the High Court.

Two against retrospective departures and one allowing retrospective departure in limited circumstances. IRD have for a number of years not issued retrospective depatrures via admin review. There has now been a direction from within IRD to change this position and they see their best chance at succeeding by piting crown law against a self represented parent.

Anyway its nice to read a comment that engenders laughter. Please feel free to preach to the unbelivers but dont expect many conversions.

Regards

Scrap

]]> By: k Lauderdale http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108480 k Lauderdale Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:16:05 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-108480 Departure order backdating is enabled in both law and case law. It should only affect liable parents who have lied about earnings/dependants/or become underemployed to avoid paying for the needs of their kids. Custodial parents (I use these terms for convenience only as many good mums and dads enter into voluntary arrangements to both care and pay for their children) are not supported by legal aid or any other mechanism to challenge assessments and most are too busy with kids, work and household duties to get into or to afford litigation on this issue. This has been unfortunate as we now have 300,000 NZ kids living in poverty with all the associated social problems this brings and dragging NZ into third world status in main international indicators.It has also meant Liable parents have been lulled into a false sense of the low worth of their kids and costs of raising children well.Any liable parent whose ex and children are forced onto benefits can account themselves as a failure to their kids and society (one of the reasons we have high tax is because of the lack of responsibility liable parents take for their kids).Family income does not suddenly become individual income and it is often used as a stick to punish parents and children with who dare to assert their right not to be controlled or abused. Often this control comes from malicious and vicious exs and their new partners whose last attempt to use their power to control and abuse is economic punishment.Child Support has become the last line of offence for abusers to withhold and use totally selfishly often massive incomes in relation to the income available to custodians and kids only for themselves.The amounts awarded in cases to date have been pathetic compared to the real cost of childraising and loss of income as a result.It should please most of you immensely that in the next few generations we are not only going to have troublesome youth and health issues we will also have a huge number of ex custodians literally living on the streets once kids leave because they have lived for years in poverty and could not afford super or a house for their old age.We are headed for disaster and it is the Men who need to assert their role and commit to their kids who will change this. Patterns of behaviour for thousands of years need to be reexamined by these men and the changes necessary in attitude taken to provide both for their kids and our future as human beings in a civilised (not yet) society where the strong support the young and vulnerable, do not need to be mothered as adults and can take their place in their childrens lives instead of running away and bleating that everything is everybody elses fault which excuses them from the basic (very basic) obligations as parents. Even most animals get this!! Departure order backdating is enabled in both law and case law. It should only affect liable parents who have lied about earnings/dependants/or become underemployed to avoid paying for the needs of their kids. Custodial parents (I use these terms for convenience only as many good mums and dads enter into voluntary arrangements to both care and pay for their children) are not supported by legal aid or any other mechanism to challenge assessments and most are too busy with kids, work and household duties to get into or to afford litigation on this issue. This has been unfortunate as we now have 300,000 NZ kids living in poverty with all the associated social problems this brings and dragging NZ into third world status in main international indicators.It has also meant Liable parents have been lulled into a false sense of the low worth of their kids and costs of raising children well.Any liable parent whose ex and children are forced onto benefits can account themselves as a failure to their kids and society (one of the reasons we have high tax is because of the lack of responsibility liable parents take for their kids).Family income does not suddenly become individual income and it is often used as a stick to punish parents and children with who dare to assert their right not to be controlled or abused. Often this control comes from malicious and vicious exs and their new partners whose last attempt to use their power to control and abuse is economic punishment.Child Support has become the last line of offence for abusers to withhold and use totally selfishly often massive incomes in relation to the income available to custodians and kids only for themselves.The amounts awarded in cases to date have been pathetic compared to the real cost of childraising and loss of income as a result.It should please most of you immensely that in the next few generations we are not only going to have troublesome youth and health issues we will also have a huge number of ex custodians literally living on the streets once kids leave because they have lived for years in poverty and could not afford super or a house for their old age.We are headed for disaster and it is the Men who need to assert their role and commit to their kids who will change this. Patterns of behaviour for thousands of years need to be reexamined by these men and the changes necessary in attitude taken to provide both for their kids and our future as human beings in a civilised (not yet) society where the strong support the young and vulnerable, do not need to be mothered as adults and can take their place in their childrens lives instead of running away and bleating that everything is everybody elses fault which excuses them from the basic (very basic) obligations as parents. Even most animals get this!!

]]> By: Scrap_The_CSA http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-96715 Scrap_The_CSA Sun, 01 Oct 2006 07:43:46 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-96715 Thanks Bevan, You are spot on Bevan, we need people! Lobbying, extensive lobbying, is not delivering reform. Reason is ignored and the voices of parents ignorned. Numbers and action are clearly needed to wake up the politicians. Roll over the National Conference. Regards Scrap Thanks Bevan,

You are spot on Bevan, we need people!

Lobbying, extensive lobbying, is not delivering reform. Reason is ignored and the voices of parents ignorned.

Numbers and action are clearly needed to wake up the politicians.

Roll over the National Conference.

Regards

Scrap

]]> By: Bevan Berg http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-96514 Bevan Berg Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:29:56 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-96514 It is convenient for ministers of both the Government and the opposition not to address this issue. The law around this issue is simply floating through parliament without debate. That will continue until either of two things happen. First the electorate rallies and forces the issue into the public arena, or second, that these issues are debated through representation in parliament. Regardless of which way we pursue the issue, we need numbers. Bothered about child support - <a href="http://menz.org.nz/2006/bothered-about-child-support/#comments " rel="nofollow">link to meetings.</a> It is convenient for ministers of both the Government and the opposition not to address this issue. The law around this issue is simply floating through parliament without debate. That will continue until either of two things happen. First the electorate rallies and forces the issue into the public arena, or second, that these issues are debated through representation in parliament. Regardless of which way we pursue the issue, we need numbers. Bothered about child support - link to meetings.

]]> By: Scrap_The_CSA http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95701 Scrap_The_CSA Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:30:08 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95701 <blockquote>Well I might be a lone voice out there but I look forward to be able to lodge a departure order for past years… After being screwed by IRD for years because of there mistakes in calculation of Child Support when there come back is “Sorry it is not the current financial year… So go away.” I look forward to having a go at them and getting my $32,000 back. </blockquote> Sadly SNMP, any decsion will not work for you. Be assured this case is being carefully drafted to limit downward departures i.e will focus on getting more money, not less. regards Scrap

Well I might be a lone voice out there but I look forward to be able to lodge a departure order for past years… After being screwed by IRD for years because of there mistakes in calculation of Child Support when there come back is “Sorry it is not the current financial year… So go away.” I look forward to having a go at them and getting my $32,000 back.

Sadly SNMP, any decsion will not work for you. Be assured this case is being carefully drafted to limit downward departures i.e will focus on getting more money, not less.

regards

Scrap

]]> By: SNMP http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95688 SNMP Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:04:07 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95688 Well I might be a lone voice out there but I look forward to be able to lodge a departure order for past years… After being screwed by IRD for years because of there mistakes in calculation of Child Support when there come back is “Sorry it is not the current financial year… So go away.” I look forward to having a go at them and getting my $32,000 back. Well I might be a lone voice out there but I look forward to be able to lodge a departure order for past years… After being screwed by IRD for years because of there mistakes in calculation of Child Support when there come back is “Sorry it is not the current financial year… So go away.” I look forward to having a go at them and getting my $32,000 back.

]]> By: Intrepid http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95668 Intrepid Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:59:42 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95668 They are hell bent on anything but real reform. This should show again to moderates that the establsihment thinks it can win by playing foxlike games. Therefore they aren't interested in justice, just money for their social enginnering fantacies, and of course their friends in the field of law. They are hell bent on anything but real reform. This should show again to moderates that the establsihment thinks it can win by playing foxlike games. Therefore they aren’t interested in justice, just money for their social enginnering fantacies, and of course their friends in the field of law.

]]> By: starr http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95666 starr Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:57:41 +0000 http://menz.org.nz/2006/the-warth-of-ird/#comment-95666 in light of all this, i say lets all protest by not pay CS for a whole year. that way the system collapses and they will be forced to come to the table. To make this work something like this has to happen on an extremely large scale. in light of all this, i say lets all protest by not pay CS for a whole year. that way the system collapses and they will be forced to come to the table.

To make this work something like this has to happen on an extremely large scale.

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