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	<title>Comments on: Protection Orders - The Quantitative Figures</title>
	<atom:link href="http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/</link>
	<description>- promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience -</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  7 Jan 2009 23:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186835</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186835</guid>
		<description>Murray - excellent posts!!!
John P - is there a part of the web site we can store these kind of statistics and reasoned analysis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murray - excellent posts!!!<br />
John P - is there a part of the web site we can store these kind of statistics and reasoned analysis?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186773</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186773</guid>
		<description>Justice and the Family Court are like oil and water. The Government should be honest and change the name to the Protection Order Court for Women. I was told today it would take several months to have a guardianship issue brought before the North Shore Family Court in Auckland because of the focus on Protection Orders there.  The Family Court is affecting the safety of my children. All this stuff about the best intersts ands welfare of children is crap. The Family court is about taking it out on men. It actually only cares about children when they can be used against the father. If they actually did care about children guardianship issues would be a priority.
Judge Ryan - the socalled Administrative Judge of the North Shore Family Court is a complete toady for the women's movement, asking all men facing a protection order if they have a problem with women. The answer should be "no I just have a problem with Judges who are an apologist for the femninist movement and an incompetent court system that is groaning under overload." Fat cats like Ryan have the power to actually do something about improving the turnaround time at the Family Court, but they don't have any other interests other than sucking up to the women's movement in order to look PC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justice and the Family Court are like oil and water. The Government should be honest and change the name to the Protection Order Court for Women. I was told today it would take several months to have a guardianship issue brought before the North Shore Family Court in Auckland because of the focus on Protection Orders there.  The Family Court is affecting the safety of my children. All this stuff about the best intersts ands welfare of children is crap. The Family court is about taking it out on men. It actually only cares about children when they can be used against the father. If they actually did care about children guardianship issues would be a priority.<br />
Judge Ryan - the socalled Administrative Judge of the North Shore Family Court is a complete toady for the women&#8217;s movement, asking all men facing a protection order if they have a problem with women. The answer should be &#8220;no I just have a problem with Judges who are an apologist for the femninist movement and an incompetent court system that is groaning under overload.&#8221; Fat cats like Ryan have the power to actually do something about improving the turnaround time at the Family Court, but they don&#8217;t have any other interests other than sucking up to the women&#8217;s movement in order to look PC.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Swash</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186582</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Swash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186582</guid>
		<description>I told her Maori friend, Maria from Miro Road,Raumati South and Brent her boyfriend, about Claire's past violence and that i had never touched her only argued with her. They work as counsellors , AND they said to me "Words are worse than punches" ! Obviously they had never been attacked with cricket bat or nearly lost an eye

I suppose that i am lucky to have her out of my life, to no longer have the violence, the addiction to her false charm and sexuality 

It is not the personal trauma of relationship failure that has changed my life so drastically, it is the trauma of being abused by the state and the great great injustice of what i faced and having all your words digested, turned upside down and ultimately ignored. You expect justice, that right should prevail in an Anglo-Saxon country, but all you get is , well, what the Jews would have got in Nazi German courts in the 30s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I told her Maori friend, Maria from Miro Road,Raumati South and Brent her boyfriend, about Claire&#8217;s past violence and that i had never touched her only argued with her. They work as counsellors , AND they said to me &#8220;Words are worse than punches&#8221; ! Obviously they had never been attacked with cricket bat or nearly lost an eye</p>
<p>I suppose that i am lucky to have her out of my life, to no longer have the violence, the addiction to her false charm and sexuality </p>
<p>It is not the personal trauma of relationship failure that has changed my life so drastically, it is the trauma of being abused by the state and the great great injustice of what i faced and having all your words digested, turned upside down and ultimately ignored. You expect justice, that right should prevail in an Anglo-Saxon country, but all you get is , well, what the Jews would have got in Nazi German courts in the 30s</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Swash</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186579</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Swash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186579</guid>
		<description>In my case, the protection order my lovely wife took out on me, was simply used as a legal extention of her previous PHYSICAL violence against me, i realise now, and she got away with it. As a result of this P.O, she got the kids, the house, the beautiful Indonesian furniture ! The law and the police just let her do it, male power being used against males (as usual).

The number of males murdered by women has dropped more than the number of females murdered by men since "Domestic Violence" laws were brought in. 
This was not due to calming of these sweet ladies made of sugar and spice.

NO, the reason is because, violent women like my wife now have an alternative to murder, they can now just pick up the phone and call the police to get the husband thrown out of their life. They can cause even more longlasting mentally cruelty this way too ! Murder is no longer necessary. 

But a violent woman will NEVER change.If her next partner ever retaliates, she will kill him ! I predict this, Claire Rudasingwa NOW living in Brussels, Belgium, will kill her next husband. I TOLD YOU SO, google this one day !!!!!

I went to the police and they only believed her and told me that "In NZ Domestic Violence is done by the man", although it was me who was attacked. I had paper police statements of her previous violence. But all she had to do was lie and say that it was  me who had been violent, i could have easily been arrested myself, as 20% of men are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my case, the protection order my lovely wife took out on me, was simply used as a legal extention of her previous PHYSICAL violence against me, i realise now, and she got away with it. As a result of this P.O, she got the kids, the house, the beautiful Indonesian furniture ! The law and the police just let her do it, male power being used against males (as usual).</p>
<p>The number of males murdered by women has dropped more than the number of females murdered by men since &#8220;Domestic Violence&#8221; laws were brought in.<br />
This was not due to calming of these sweet ladies made of sugar and spice.</p>
<p>NO, the reason is because, violent women like my wife now have an alternative to murder, they can now just pick up the phone and call the police to get the husband thrown out of their life. They can cause even more longlasting mentally cruelty this way too ! Murder is no longer necessary. </p>
<p>But a violent woman will NEVER change.If her next partner ever retaliates, she will kill him ! I predict this, Claire Rudasingwa NOW living in Brussels, Belgium, will kill her next husband. I TOLD YOU SO, google this one day !!!!!</p>
<p>I went to the police and they only believed her and told me that &#8220;In NZ Domestic Violence is done by the man&#8221;, although it was me who was attacked. I had paper police statements of her previous violence. But all she had to do was lie and say that it was  me who had been violent, i could have easily been arrested myself, as 20% of men are.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin of Nazareth</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186570</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin of Nazareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186570</guid>
		<description>Yes  Murray,  "beware  the  rubber stamp  salesman",  whether  it  be  3:00 a.m  in  downtown  auckland  or  the  corridors  of  power,  they  call  the  family  court.  Not  much  difference  on  the  danger  scale,  you're  bound  to  get  screwed  either  way  if  you  are  not extra  careful...

No Solicitors</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes  Murray,  &#8220;beware  the  rubber stamp  salesman&#8221;,  whether  it  be  3:00 a.m  in  downtown  auckland  or  the  corridors  of  power,  they  call  the  family  court.  Not  much  difference  on  the  danger  scale,  you&#8217;re  bound  to  get  screwed  either  way  if  you  are  not extra  careful&#8230;</p>
<p>No Solicitors</p>
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		<title>By: MurrayBacon</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186568</link>
		<dc:creator>MurrayBacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186568</guid>
		<description>Some people find money to be sacred.  I advise to try as much as possible to give them a wide berth.
Don't travel &lt;strong&gt;alone&lt;/strong&gt; through downtown Auckland at 3 am, unless worthwhile or necessary, its just asking for unnecessary trouble.
Same for familycaught and all who sail in her.
Cheers, MurrayBacon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people find money to be sacred.  I advise to try as much as possible to give them a wide berth.<br />
Don&#8217;t travel <strong>alone</strong> through downtown Auckland at 3 am, unless worthwhile or necessary, its just asking for unnecessary trouble.<br />
Same for familycaught and all who sail in her.<br />
Cheers, MurrayBacon.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin of Nazareth</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186567</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin of Nazareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 21:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186567</guid>
		<description>While  a  Protection  Order  may  have  it's  merits,  how  they  are  attained,  is  the  prime  concern.  

For  starters,  there  is  a  "conflict  of  inrerest"  upon  the  issue  of  every  Protection  Order  as  a  lawyer / legal  firm  only  has  financial  interests  when  preparing  a  Protection  Order.  How  more  corrupt  can  you  get i  ask  ???

I  believe  that  a  hospital / doctor  should  be  the  only  authority  to  support  the  weight  of  evidence  for  the  issuance  of  a  Protection  Order,  even  if  it  requires  that  a  lawyer (on  salary) have  his  own  office  in  each  of  the  nations  leading  hospitals.

These  Protection  Orders  are  handed  out  like  toilet  paper  every  time  a  lawyer  or  family  court jugde  needs  to  do  a  shit, fuck  the  lawyers  and  fuck  the  judges  who  are  part  of  this  corrupt  family  court  industry,  you  filthy  theiving  bastards.

Is  nothing  sacred ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While  a  Protection  Order  may  have  it&#8217;s  merits,  how  they  are  attained,  is  the  prime  concern.  </p>
<p>For  starters,  there  is  a  &#8220;conflict  of  inrerest&#8221;  upon  the  issue  of  every  Protection  Order  as  a  lawyer / legal  firm  only  has  financial  interests  when  preparing  a  Protection  Order.  How  more  corrupt  can  you  get i  ask  ???</p>
<p>I  believe  that  a  hospital / doctor  should  be  the  only  authority  to  support  the  weight  of  evidence  for  the  issuance  of  a  Protection  Order,  even  if  it  requires  that  a  lawyer (on  salary) have  his  own  office  in  each  of  the  nations  leading  hospitals.</p>
<p>These  Protection  Orders  are  handed  out  like  toilet  paper  every  time  a  lawyer  or  family  court jugde  needs  to  do  a  shit, fuck  the  lawyers  and  fuck  the  judges  who  are  part  of  this  corrupt  family  court  industry,  you  filthy  theiving  bastards.</p>
<p>Is  nothing  sacred ?</p>
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		<title>By: MurrayBacon</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186566</link>
		<dc:creator>MurrayBacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186566</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately the barrier in these issues, doesn't lie in women's understanding, it lies in the "average" mans trust in the caught system and "judges" in particular.

I had this view myself, before I had met the familycaught "judges" in person.

OK, so I was convicted of a speeding offense, by the perjury of a traffic policeman. I was guilty. No great injustice, worth complaining about.  So I lazily assumed that most convictions gained by perjury, were probably justified anyway.

The trouble is, when you lower standards of proof, or in a dull and stupid manner, allow convictions to proceed with no other "evidence" than sympathy and an accusation, then there will be large numbers of false convictions.

When these wrongful convictions result in severe family damage, such as for Arthur Allan Thomas, or Walter Bolton, 18 February 1957 and now hundreds of thousands of other examples too, then we are seriously damaging our own society.

It is very important to actively check for conflicts of interest, in our "judicial" process.  The present "trust us" mantra, is an obvious cloak for skullduggery and judicial murder.  Achieving quality starts with operating working systems of accountability, not just paying the Judicial Complaints Hider (JCC) a salary, irrespective of the quality of his "work", or lack thereof.

Many people oppose the Government paying damages for wrongful conviction and incarceration.  However, doing this helps to make the social costs obvious and therefore easier to manage.  As these costs escalate and become expensive to taxpayers, then there is constructive pressure to set and apply standards for all legal workers, in particular for judges.

There must be many wrongful convictions that never become obvious to the public.  The DNA exonerations is one of the few examples where new forensic techniques allows the resolution of some old cases.  This then gives a MINIMUM estimate of the proportion of wrongful convictions.

It does make a case for setting minimum standards for judges training and standards of integrity.  At present, our "judges" are "all care and no responsibility".  Their role is more of theatre/clown - someone is hanged or jailed and the public aren't too concerned about who! It seems that the clothes matter more than the man.

The european standard that people who have worked for over 12 months as a lawyer, are ineligible to enter judicial training, in my opinion is essential as part of setting integrity and ethical standards for judges.

It is only if the series of rapes continues unabated after the jailing, that a search for further people to incarcerate is started again.  

Improvements will come from:
1. Listening to the evidence
2. Having the necessary skills to understand and evaluate evidence
3. Approaching these tasks with an open mind

None of these ideas is new, they have been described for thousands of years.

There is quite a lot of value to society in incarcerating the right people.  
Lets start with some of our present "judges".

The "profession" that doesn't set performance or quality standards and fights against allowing its members to be subject to penalties for unethical or incompetent conduct, coincidentally is the "profession" that is developing it's standards the slowest of any! The solution is pretty obvious!

Cheers, MurrayBacon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately the barrier in these issues, doesn&#8217;t lie in women&#8217;s understanding, it lies in the &#8220;average&#8221; mans trust in the caught system and &#8220;judges&#8221; in particular.</p>
<p>I had this view myself, before I had met the familycaught &#8220;judges&#8221; in person.</p>
<p>OK, so I was convicted of a speeding offense, by the perjury of a traffic policeman. I was guilty. No great injustice, worth complaining about.  So I lazily assumed that most convictions gained by perjury, were probably justified anyway.</p>
<p>The trouble is, when you lower standards of proof, or in a dull and stupid manner, allow convictions to proceed with no other &#8220;evidence&#8221; than sympathy and an accusation, then there will be large numbers of false convictions.</p>
<p>When these wrongful convictions result in severe family damage, such as for Arthur Allan Thomas, or Walter Bolton, 18 February 1957 and now hundreds of thousands of other examples too, then we are seriously damaging our own society.</p>
<p>It is very important to actively check for conflicts of interest, in our &#8220;judicial&#8221; process.  The present &#8220;trust us&#8221; mantra, is an obvious cloak for skullduggery and judicial murder.  Achieving quality starts with operating working systems of accountability, not just paying the Judicial Complaints Hider (JCC) a salary, irrespective of the quality of his &#8220;work&#8221;, or lack thereof.</p>
<p>Many people oppose the Government paying damages for wrongful conviction and incarceration.  However, doing this helps to make the social costs obvious and therefore easier to manage.  As these costs escalate and become expensive to taxpayers, then there is constructive pressure to set and apply standards for all legal workers, in particular for judges.</p>
<p>There must be many wrongful convictions that never become obvious to the public.  The DNA exonerations is one of the few examples where new forensic techniques allows the resolution of some old cases.  This then gives a MINIMUM estimate of the proportion of wrongful convictions.</p>
<p>It does make a case for setting minimum standards for judges training and standards of integrity.  At present, our &#8220;judges&#8221; are &#8220;all care and no responsibility&#8221;.  Their role is more of theatre/clown - someone is hanged or jailed and the public aren&#8217;t too concerned about who! It seems that the clothes matter more than the man.</p>
<p>The european standard that people who have worked for over 12 months as a lawyer, are ineligible to enter judicial training, in my opinion is essential as part of setting integrity and ethical standards for judges.</p>
<p>It is only if the series of rapes continues unabated after the jailing, that a search for further people to incarcerate is started again.  </p>
<p>Improvements will come from:<br />
1. Listening to the evidence<br />
2. Having the necessary skills to understand and evaluate evidence<br />
3. Approaching these tasks with an open mind</p>
<p>None of these ideas is new, they have been described for thousands of years.</p>
<p>There is quite a lot of value to society in incarcerating the right people.<br />
Lets start with some of our present &#8220;judges&#8221;.</p>
<p>The &#8220;profession&#8221; that doesn&#8217;t set performance or quality standards and fights against allowing its members to be subject to penalties for unethical or incompetent conduct, coincidentally is the &#8220;profession&#8221; that is developing it&#8217;s standards the slowest of any! The solution is pretty obvious!</p>
<p>Cheers, MurrayBacon.</p>
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		<title>By: Perseus</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186562</link>
		<dc:creator>Perseus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186562</guid>
		<description>The point of this thread (why do we always have to spell simple things out to women ?) is that there has been very little differences in calculated "Domestic Violence" behaviour, but the devastation that these laws have made to millions of kids, fathers, yes and society in general, is VAST.

It is the same as the old turkish police method of torturing 1000 people to find out the 1 real offender , but women never really understand "statistics". because they never think that they are wrong, do they ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point of this thread (why do we always have to spell simple things out to women ?) is that there has been very little differences in calculated &#8220;Domestic Violence&#8221; behaviour, but the devastation that these laws have made to millions of kids, fathers, yes and society in general, is VAST.</p>
<p>It is the same as the old turkish police method of torturing 1000 people to find out the 1 real offender , but women never really understand &#8220;statistics&#8221;. because they never think that they are wrong, do they ?</p>
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		<title>By: MurrayBacon</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186558</link>
		<dc:creator>MurrayBacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/2007/protection-orders-the-quantitative-figures/#comment-186558</guid>
		<description>Dear "Jane", I liked your brief observation about NZ men. A simple and usefull observation, about simple and not so usefull men.  

There might value in noticing individuals as well as the averages. I married an individual woman and since then I have been pleased that I didn't marry the average woman. Its just not possible to divorce an average woman, only an individual.

"Jane" sounds awfully average.  Cheers, MurrayBacon (1 of 6,000 per year...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear &#8220;Jane&#8221;, I liked your brief observation about NZ men. A simple and usefull observation, about simple and not so usefull men.  </p>
<p>There might value in noticing individuals as well as the averages. I married an individual woman and since then I have been pleased that I didn&#8217;t marry the average woman. Its just not possible to divorce an average woman, only an individual.</p>
<p>&#8220;Jane&#8221; sounds awfully average.  Cheers, MurrayBacon (1 of 6,000 per year&#8230;)</p>
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