The Tax Woman and the Csar
Recent changes to the Child Support Tax Act gave the Tax woman the legal mechanism to initiate an administrative reviews against parents.
The Tax woman calls them Commissioner Initiated Administrative Reviews abbreviated to C.I.A.R (Pronounced Csar like the autocrat) .
First you will receive a letter like this.
Dear Mr XXXX,
COMMISSIONER INITIATED ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW – REQUEST FOR FINANCIAL INFORMATION
IRD NUMBER:
CIAR CASE NUMBER:
I write to advise that your case has been selected for a possible Commissioner Initiated Administrative Review (CIAR).A recent change to the law allows us to initiate such a review if after reviewing a paying parent’s financial position, we consider the child support they have been assessed to pay,does not reflect their ability to provide financial support for their children.
The enclosed booklet Helping you to understand reviews (IR175),
explains how the process works (refer to pages 29 to 33), including what involvement the custodial parent has in the second stage of the process.Current child support payments
Your current child support assessment is calculated based on your income for the child support year ended XXXX$ XX,000.00.
Table of Child Tax Payments (as assessed)
If you consider your liability has not been calculated correctly in terms of the formula,(for instance, your living allowance is incorrect), please let me know as soon as possible.
Establishing your current financial position
So that your financial position may be established, please complete the enclosed questionnaire advising of your current financial position and return it to me by (date) in the enclosed envelope. If you think you will have any difficulty meeting this time frame, please let me know.This information will help us decide if your case is suitable for a CIAR.
Any queries?
If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me on 0800 486 666 extension xxxxYours sincerely
Tax Woman
CSAR Team
Included with this letter will be a 5 page form that the Tax woman asks you to “please complete.”
These forms are nothing more than a “fishing expedition”. Its euphemistically titled ” Details of Current Financial Position Questionnaire ” . IRD can obtain all the information without you making it easy for them to hang you. For your information I would not complete the form.
Peter Dunne, Minister Responsible for Child Support and United Future leader is responsible for Child Tax , pushed CIAR Reviews through Parliament. REMINDING you Peter!
Speaking of United Future while trumpeting shared parenting they fail to comprehend that without a fair and reasonable child support system it simply cant work.
In fact the their Made in New Zealand discussion document portrays the party view of paying parents parents.
Child Support
The child support system in New Zealand exists to try and ensure that parents fulfill at least part of their parental responsibilities for the sake of their children. It is not an area that the state enjoys adjudicating over. However, it is a necessary intervention when separated parents cannot reach their own agreements.
Untrue : If a “custodial parent” is on the DPB then the Tax is collected by your Tax minions for “benefit recovery” or spousal maintenance. Its nothing to do with supporting children.
One of the difficulties that the child support system faces is the growing number of registered cases that it is involved with, and the associated challenges of growing child support debt.Inland Revenue has put a great deal of effort into collecting child support debt over the past five years. In 2002 just over $31 million of debt was collected. In 2006 this figure was more
than double at $67.6 million. However the growth in debt is rising faster than it can be collected which is a serious concern for IRD.
You know why Peter! The system is fundamentally flawed and creates the debt and you dont want to fix it. Your obsessed with compliance not fairness. In case you have forgotten we are coming to your electorate to REMIND you.
Formula and rules for child support will always be a balancing act between what liable and custodial parents would like to see happen. Having said that, one way to encourage compliance within any system is to try and create a perception that such a system is as fair and reasonable as possible.
Be real Peter its about what your officials want and you don’t care about what parents want. You promised that your officals would consult on shared parenting and child support but have we ever heard from them? No.
Bit like ignoring Kiwis as you did over section 59 you don’t listen to parents you know best
Australia has had many of the same challenges as New Zealand and has made changes in an effort to recognise time and money spent by liable parents with their children. Now the Australian system caps payment obligations above certain income levels.
Well their used to be a cap but I am certain that Hansard shows that United Future (all at the time) voted for its removal.
Do you forget telling us that it would cost too much revenue to implement similar changes to Austrailia?
The language of this document tells it all United Future sees parents separated from their children in terms of liability and custody not as equal parents.
Dont worry Peter we will REMIND you and your electorate of how Family Unfriendly you are. We will REMIND them of your role as a political chameleon. We will remind them that you are a Tui ad politician.
Regards
Scrap
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Hi Karen,
Seek some advice from your lawyer. I have remarried and my husband and I have been to hell and back with his ex regarding C/S. I know what you are going through, we have been there only worse than you could ever imagine! The Family Court Judge will make a decision! Take care Karen
Regards Molly
Still no reply from Peter Dunne’s office – any suggestions who I should send the letter to now….
Please see the response from Judy Turner – United Future to my letter I sent to Peter Dunne.
My understanding is that the care is calculated on “bed-nights” not hours spent (which I agree is silly). I have talked to the Minister previously on this matter and he has ordered some work to be done in his department to look into this problem with the hope that cabinet would approve changes to the way shared care is calculated for child support purposes. UnitedFuture considers the current method of calculating child support to be a very blunt instrument, and that it creates huge unfairness. While changing this was not part of our current, negotiated Supply and Confidence agreement with the Labour-led government we are certainly intent on doing all we can to get the government to consider the changes needed. I have sent this e-mail to both the Minister and to IRD staff for their perusal.
sincerely
Judy Turner (Deputy Leader)
UnitedFuture
Well done Karen!
For a display of equally respectful as practicable measure to build a united future James Nicolle or Paul Catton are likely our best to reply with direct meaningful dialogue between us, the disaffected, and those with the capacity to calculate our existence.
This, by that view is to say that Judy Turner is offering an opening to draw sense into a department that can do so much hurt and harm by missing the damage that is inflicted by concentrating on money instead of the people who are supposed to be served by its instrument.
Hopefully, James or Paul can also give you a reply. And we can all begin to consider and concentrate on these practical measures as our political position, putting pressure on the administrators requesting that they stop beating us up, damaging our relationships with our children for fiscal irresponsibility instead assisting us through.
You guys have made me very scared.I have had a 5 year battle with IRD over Child Support.By my calculations they owe me $70,000.They say I owe them $32,000.It is all to do with shared care.I have always been very careful to have the 146 nights but they never acknowledge it.They just say 139 days each year and refuse to bend.One year even the mother said 140 nights(actually it was 149 that year) and the IRD still assessed as 139!I have just spent the whole day making yet another affidavit for yet another court case.Family assistance is the same.Never once have I been paid.One year they assessed as 115 days(although Child Support said 139).When questioned about this anomoly they said they do not share information with CS.I have had 38 different officers write me letters or make decisions in the past 5 years not one of them reasonable.I have kept diaries,email correspondence,calendars,affidavits of my neighbour and my new wife confirming days I had my daughter everything but it has not made one scrap of difference.I have been audited twice.I escaped to overseas in May and thus can no longer see 3 of my children.If I open a bank account the IRD automatically cleans everything out.After reading this forum I am too scared to go back into New Zealand so will stay away which is tragic but what can I do?
Sorry I should have explained that Family Assistance rules are 122 days.Th reason IRD keeps assessing me at 139 is that they are scared that if it becomes 140 I may have an argument that I have shared care under the second wing of the policy .I have lived in Whangaparaoa and my ex and my daughter in the city.Not once has she picked up or dropped off my daughter.Her income is well over $100,000 a year mine has consistently been below $20,000.(although the IRD have regularly assessed my income ay between $40,000 and $60,0009.I have kept a 3 br house with a section so my daughter(8 yrs old) could have a proper life.Her mother lives in a tiny apartment.
I have paid half for clothes was on the PTA of my daughters school etc etc.However in May this year I said enoygh is enough and left New Zealand.I have seen the shorts of David Henderson`s movie.I wish his problems were 10% of mine.I really do not believe that a lot of people out there know about what is going on in NZ.The IRD are a law unto themselves and will stop at nothing to prevent children having a proper relationship with their children.I joined in some of the protests at lawyers for the childrens houses last year.Bloody good fun but more must be done.
Good for you Whanga for writing.
First, there is a skerrick of hope, yet it is distant and dependent on many unlikely factors. But that cannot stop hope from being hope!
Why I don’t register to the formula of child support and look at it froman analytical view is because the principle instituting its provision is corrupted as money: the value over the child. That’s why I ask that our demonstrated as skilled analysts James Nicolle (Srap) and Paul Catton take these question on in a manner that create a direct challenge on the IRD. I respect for them that it is hard to do this kind of work and as James says – the little one comes first every time – or words to that effect. Fair enough. After all this is teh principle that is advocated if reform is ever to be found. Yet without the army of skilled challengers the capacities of production are limited to the kinds of ends reserved for partimers and the not so resourced.
So where I call myself the Political Busker, prepared to challenge the injustices, where I reject that challenge on principle there is a vaccuum. Paul Catton, obviously is in the direct fight and achieving this month so it is unfair to challenge him, and I know for James’s previous contributions he works hard at it challenging Peter Dunne on formula and the like. Yet I don’t endevour to comprehend what he writes. I suppose this makes me aggressive – I apologise James.
Yet, if being inefective for the argument it doesn’t limit a possible solution to the problem. I cannot remember if I have canvassed that idea on this site but wrote dorectly to Gordon Copeland. I suggested an amnesty on money not collected in exchange for reestablished relationships with the child. He replied in favour – as I remember the letter of response – and I will reread it before quoting him directly, because if the quote is solid then it holds that component of hope.
Gordon Copeland split from United Future on the policy direction change repealing s.59 of the Crimes Act 1961. This was termed the anti-smacking Bill. GC was a list elected MP to United Future, where there were three MP’s. He has made I believe useful contribution to tax laws and I have read favourable things on his contribution and those less favourable. Michael Cullen is intolerant of his questions, answers and policy focus on most replies to those questions and sometimes watching from the gallery I can comprehend the complexities of the answers and tend lean (as often I will) to the logic of MC. Yet GC has asked a question in Parliament that I haven’t heard anyone else yet ask directly where he was patsied in guffaw and deception by Steve Maharey claiming that everyone thought it was ideal for mum and dad to be the one’s bringing up the children. That simply isn’t true of him or cabinet where there is a direct policy engaged to negate that effect by allowing single mums and lesbian couples to have babies where knocking dad out of the picture for the child – being under 18. So good on him overall. He engineered a Hansard masterpiece for that single question.
GC’s vote is with National. He has prepledged it looking I imagine to capitalise the nominal single party entry to parliament for a seat of getting more under MMP. Two I suppose -I don’t know the figures off hand.
That pledge will be important under such conditions if voting is tight this election which I would think could be predictable, depending on how the more social and delicate issues are handled as they rapidly charge into view. It will certainly be among the most interesting election in history I reckon and there is a long long way to go yet!
And it’s his policy effectively if he matures it and it is sound policy so he owns its credit. So the hope in that is that the method accomodating the idea is feasible. I don’t mind working on this as we get closer to the election. So it’s a sort of pledge from me as well.
Optimally the Republican’s will pick it up as well and work through its meaning and implimentation. If the social system has begun by that time to respond to the need to impliment a change of social planning on separations being focused on plans instead of punishmentthen there would be a tide of fathers knowing htat they could reunite with their children without being crucified for the massive financial burden, as for you that drives them away from their children.
So don’t be scared. Write to Peter Dunne anonymously and suggest that this is what you need to get you to return to New Zealand. And by the way -tell him that the reason you are out of NZ isn’t because you are running away from your responsibility to your childre, but because his department has forced you from the country because to stay is to die.
The address is:
Peter Dunne
Minister of Revenue
Parliament Buildings
New Zealand
As JimBWarrior would say “Stay strong stay calm”.
That guy Peter Dunne knows nothing of reality.I told my story to my MP Lockwood Smith.He did not want to know about it.I asked if he believed me and he did not reply just said he was busy.
I wrote a 3 page letter complaining of an IRD assessment 3 months ago and then got a letter back saying they did not consider it an objection as I did not use the word objection.The legislation does not say I have to.38 officers have looked at my case.38.Have you got any idea what that must have cost the taxpayer?I have also been to court 7 times with the IRD over Child Support and have 4 more cases coming up but am now to scared to go back to NZ so will probably have to let them go.Most guys take take the kind of stuff I have had thrown at me,commit suicide,get depressed.I refuse to be called a liar by IRD.I was extremely careful to have my 146 nights each year.This whole system is appalling and bringing NZ down.I know JimB Warrior.Seems like he has mellowed somewhat.If anyone can give me more info about this prevention of child support “debtors” being stopped at the airport I would be very grateful.
The last question time I heard covering the issue was between PD and Judith Collins. JC was accussing PD of changing his policy. Sounds like she was right. Meaning that CS defaulters were not going to be stopped at the airport.
Im Busy parenting so havent answered some questions on this thread, but will do so later this week.
Regards
Scrap
I cannot believe that it is legal to stop anyone travelling where they like.It is the right of a citizen to have a passport.Yet one of the first posts here said that had happened to someone.I rang IRD today and they said they cannot do it
See comments 7 and 9.
Regards
Scrap
Hi All,
All of the issues raised regarding C/S and Shared Care can be easily sorted by the other parent, simply by saying, I don’t want to be receiving C/S when my kids father is doing the required amount of hours (or what ever is required). Unfortunately it appears that some women base C/S assessments on greed and continue the IRD battle by not wanting to resolve anything. I believe that the parent receiving C/S enjoys IRD being the attacker.
Now my husbands x is married and never puts her husbands earnings into her statement of financial means, however every year I am required to provide my earnings to IRD and Family Court and my earning are taken into account. Now his x via the courts also demanded that my husbands earnings be increased up to $100,000 as she estimated that he had the earning ability of at least this amount (Yeah, I wish!!!). He actually earns $55,000. Every year the x demands a weekly payment of c/s at $800.00 and even recommended that my husband and I take on secondary employment to meet her financial needs. We have a designated IRD person that deals with our tax details as we were alerted to his x receiving information from my husbands file. How were we alerted? She put copies of IRD statements and letters addressed to my husband in her affidavit. We wrote to IRD and lodged a complaint. IRD’s response was that should his x request information under the ‘Official Informations Act’ she would receive this information anyway so it was given to her. WHAT!…… so they really think we are that stupid, that Act would be utilised to gain info from her file not ours. We are still thinking about what to do with that one!
My husband has always paid child support and has never refused to do so.
Regards
Molly
Hi Molly
You should make a complaint to the privacy commissioner who is investigating a similar complaint right now.In this case my husband’s ex became a nominated person on his IRD file through a phone call that he never made a few months before she left him.She even changed his address on his file to hers this year so that when she went to the IRD for CS, he never received their letter notifying him of his payments.So that she could get payed doubly (they had a private CS agreement) And the IRD have told him that it is not their problem and that he has to pay twice.
The police are looking into it now.
Far out – whats this world coming to ladies. Isnt it unbelievable what is going on with the IRD dept.I cannot believe so many people are affected and it falls on deaf ears continually. Molly – Id luv for you to be my husband’s ex wife. At least you have the sense that the whole situation is about the children and not about your hate & greed to your ex husband. Hell we prob would even sit down and have a coffee like I do with my ex husband and his lovely partner!!!Doesnt it make you wonder what these bitter woman are actually teaching their kids…..I keep thinking why should if in 50/50 shared care – should ANY money be passed between parents when they share the costs of bringing the kids up equally??? Please if someone can make me see something that Im not seeing NOW Id appreciated it – because this is doing my head in. All I say is im in this battle for the long term with IRD. We have another 11 yrs of c/s to pay and that equates to $175k. So you can see whose mtg is going to be paid off before MINE!!!
Thanks Scrap,
on the issue of arrest – there must still be an intention to prosecute the parent with debt leaving the country.
What are the grounds for prosecution and can this be forced?
I ask this because I seek to be prosecuted for my debt. I want them to take me into Court so I can reply, OK -now bring me my son and daughter.
I sent a letter to my local National MP Bob Clarkson. I had a reply this morning from the elctoral agent and they would like more info on the situation.They also asked my husband to sign a privacy authorisation so they can go to IRD and discuss…….not holding my breath but at least I had a reply within a day of sending the email………..so much for Peter Dunne’s reply. Ive sent him a letter now and wont be holding out for a reply!!!
I do not understand all this fuss about privacy unless you have something to hide.IRD will not even send me emails as they are concerned about privacy even when I request them.
Anyway I think the fact that we are even discussing that it might be possible for the government to stop people using their passports to go in and out of the country is incredible.What have things come to? I imagine that 90% of child support “defaulters” have a legitimate reason for not paying.Why should they be persecuted when the IRD is too useless,lazy and prejudiced to do their job properly and prove that a debt exists.My case has shown that once they make a “decision” based on the other parents lies there is nothing you can do to change their minds.
My father is very sick with cancer and I would love to return home to see him and have my children see him before he dies but I will not risk it till I am absolutely sure my passport will not be taken away.
Hi Whanga
If I had your IRD number, your date of birth and your address,I could get a male friend of mine to phone the IRD and become a nominated person on your file too.It’s as simple as that.And the most stupid thing about them is,when my husband requested that all the information that his ex had received from them be sent to him,they included her IRD number.
Hi All,
Were you also aware that if a paying parents earnings is estimated as an increase by the Family Court, the IRD instantly jump on that and put the paying parent into debt of many thousands due to the new estimation. So I guess if my husband wanted to go overseas he would be arrested at the airport for c/s debt, not due to him not paying, the new estimation that throws the paying parent into instand debt.
yes Karen, we would probably be sitting down and having coffee, talking about the kids and just getting on with it. Some woman want to punish there x partners/husbands and any contact via the IRD, Family Court or whatever is still contact isn’t it, whether its positive or negative it allows the parent with obvious issues to have control over the lives of the children, x husband and his new wife.
My husband and our sons father are all going on the school camp together, how good is that!
Regards,
Molly.
PS. I Know her birthdate and her address and if I was to be as devious as her,I could easily have had my husband’s child support payments stopped.
Thats fantastic Molly. I have just spoken to the National electoral agent.He tells me that in the last 18 months there have been 2 ‘rehashes’ of the child support bill both both have been a shambles and thrown out. He said A third attempt is currently underway. Like Ive learnt – dont hold our breath??? but hey at least more and more people are listening with one ear…..He tells me we are paying at the top end and he will call IRD to discuss…..another thing I wont hold my breath about BUT fingers crossed aye…..
Your doing fantastic Karen,
at the end, what they are missing is different ideas. They will be stuck in tehir financial institutions of money on every turn. They will not recognise that a presumption of equal shared parenting takes the child out of the argument in a separation. Once the child has been extracted from the arguments between the parents then fiscal security may be measured and later set against the high demands of politics balanced to social necessities. The only way they are going to define social necessitiy is by recognising that teh problems they possess are beyond the capacity of the established and performed democratic processes. This means they have to look at different ways to develop policy where the problems continue (in whatever sector they exist)are maintained and bear negative effect over all society. That was an elaborate formula (like child tax itself) to say talk to the people.
Gummint if it is to develop as representative of teh people needs to comprehend that presently it is exclusive. The system of select committees (this is absolute fact Lynne Puillay) are being corrupted.
Keeping pushing Karen your return is direct to every child subject to this sad condition of human neglect.
Hi Benjamin – Would you suggest making an appl to the family court(self litigation) to get c/support reassessed??or am I wasting my time????
I’ll be back down in Wellington on Wednesday. I’ll have a bit of time then to start looking through the Child Support Act. I’ll get back to you then. Optimally others will have already have built a tool kit you can use. I know that Allan Harvey is skilled and expereinced and I’ll put you onto his address with his phone number when I am back in Wellington.
So in short, don’t do anything else.
However, as you are talking in the area of appeal you will need to get better familiar with, and better prepared to counter (with your own practice) the protocols of that system. I’m happy to help you with this before you make any application. You’ll see what I mean pretty quickly once your claim starts to progress.
Before you do anything, or prepare yourself for any kind of affirmative action in the Court – consider – how much (approximate percentage) of the facts you think you need to evidentially present are ready as electronically transferable?
Good for you – nothing like a bit of confidence to rattle an oppression!
Karen,
I don’t recommend Court.
It is a very complex piece of revenue legislation its only concerned with collecting money and thats what the child tax police at IRD exist for.
Email me with a contact phone number and ill call you to talk about the CS situation.
jnicolle@paradise.net.nz
Regards
Scrap
I cannot comment on James’s post not being familiar with the Court processes on the CSA but as have been asked a question and that the CSA argument is building intend to pursue applying my experiences of the Court process into how that process can be used, or is manipulated by its elite consumers to the detrminent of those unfortunate enough to be deeeply confined to its gender and social manipulation.
Optimally both contingencies will not only be considered by Karen but can develop in such a manner that they are directly accessible to any reader caught into the confines and wounds of those CSA manipulations.
Immediately if James’s is a long term plan by practice that reduces the impracticable living restrictions of all parties involved in Child Support arrangements before the equation of how much money is awarded to one party by the other, his practice will gain the momentum from every and any reader seeking assistance in how to overcome the finacial and social pressure that is ruining their family lives after a separation.
The submission to the Fielding Court is taking longer that I thought and my contribution is already up to 23 pages possibly with more to come rather than needing to refine the bulk. Noelle’s submission is up to nine pages and the annexed material will be well over another 20 so it is quite a hefty document taking another day to compile.
I’ll email you on Friday Karen and give you the weekend to contemplate my views.
Well I went back to NZ and then left again and was not stopped.I learnt from my tenant that the IRD have been sending people round with bankruptcy proceedings for alleged CS debt too.But still no stop at the airport.Was rather looking forward to it actually.Did not see my 3 kids or my sick father while i was back.Too scared of letting their mother know I was there and her alerting IRD.Fascinating to read on another thread of other peoples problems with the IRD lawyer Mark Miller.He is supposed to be an independent review officer.I thought it was just me and my children that he had cheated.Comforting to know that he is not discriminatory and simply cheats all fathers that come his way.What a country you people are living in.Unlikely I will be back!Am slowly getting over having no contact with my children and hope the same goes for them as regards me.Great to discover the power of having unconditional love for their Mum and for Mark Miller and all the other deluded people at IRD.Has allowed me to move on with peace and purpose.Life is not a rehearsal and we must make the best of it.