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	<title>Comments on: USA cop acts to curb abuse of men by false complainants</title>
	<atom:link href="http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/</link>
	<description>- promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience -</description>
	<pubDate>Thu,  8 Jan 2009 16:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MurrayBacon</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-186849</link>
		<dc:creator>MurrayBacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-186849</guid>
		<description>There is too much attacking of individuals, perhaps where we should be trying to offer support.  We all have our problems, some bathed in more or less blood than each other. Please may we focus more onto how best to protect our children and all of their relationships?

Cheers, MurrayBacon  erratic and unpredictable I swerve and hit people...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is too much attacking of individuals, perhaps where we should be trying to offer support.  We all have our problems, some bathed in more or less blood than each other. Please may we focus more onto how best to protect our children and all of their relationships?</p>
<p>Cheers, MurrayBacon  erratic and unpredictable I swerve and hit people&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MurrayBacon</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-186842</link>
		<dc:creator>MurrayBacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-186842</guid>
		<description>Dear Dave, if you can "prove" the lie, "prove" the damage that resulted and "prove" the cause and effect link between the lie and the damages (without previously being thrown out of caught part way through), then it should be quite straightforward.

While you are at it, don't forget about &lt;a href="http://menz.org.nz/2008/evidence-is-easily-swept-away-by-sympathy/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Sympathy&lt;/a&gt;, that great slayer of real evidence when out of sight of public gaze!

Remember that perjury is charged in the District Court, whereas the information to prove it - in the protection order example - comes from the familycaught.  In this unfortunate instance, you will be required to obtain the permission of a familycaught "judge" for "publication" of the evidence in the District Court.

Normally, this would be a mere formality, but our NZ familycaught "judges" don't see it as permission that should not be unreasonably with-held.  On the contrary, Judge Sharp dismissed Jeff Page's private perjury prosecution out of hand and refused to allow even a 15 minute adjournment, so that such permission could be sought. I was not there, but I was told she made some comment along the lines that "these women should not be being prosecuted for perjury".


&lt;a href="http://menz.org.nz/2007/lets-prosecute-child-abductors/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Perjury left unprosecuted by St. Patrick&lt;/a&gt;  see #37

&lt;strong&gt;Alternative Path of Complaint&lt;/strong&gt;
When a Protection Order application is made without notice, the solicitor must supply a certificate saying that they have made reasonable enquiries and the material facts supplied are truthful, and complete and not misleading.

There are "meant" to be severe penalties applying, when this certificate is supplied, without the enquiries being competently completed.  One example that I know of, is a man working from his home.  This detail was left out of affidavits, presumably deliberately by the woman's solicitor.  The net result was the man being denied access to his tools of work and workplace.  The solicitor covered this, by not putting his work address on the application, so it wasn't obvious that this detail was being hidden from the familycaught "judge".

The woman's ruse worked.  The man just gave up his business and allowed it to be largely destroyed, what had taken a number of years to build up.

To my dismay, the man refused to make a formal complaint, as he considered that the Law Soiety would fail to act on the complaint.  I knew he was right, however, as a first step it is necessary to go through the motions.  Then later - in theory - it is possible to blow this issue up in front of the Law Society and demand that the Legislature remove this legislation, as the legal workers lack the integrity and skills to process it ethically and competently.

Thus, the responsibility for this defective legislation remaining on the books, lies with us men - when we don't follow through with formal complaints.

I know that prosecuting perjury is the "responsibility" of the police and that they are well paid to do it. However, I suppose that it has got to be boring, so they do other &lt;strong&gt;things&lt;/strong&gt;.

It seems that all? perjury prosecutions in the last 10 years have been private.  On acassion, the police will refund the costs of the private prosecution, but the risks were carried by the indivividual that initiated the private prosecution (policeman prosecuted for perjury at Whakatane a few years back). 

It seems that the police are leaving international child abduction largely to private prosecution.  Our children will only be protected when we stop waiting for the police and get in and do the prosecutions ourselves.

I hope that this makes clear, why there is such a dire need for successful teamwork.  We cannot protect our children, through private prosecutions at an individual level.  We only have a chance of success, if we work successfully together.

All of these things frustrate me intensely, leading to my well known problems with impulse control. I just don't want anyone to find out why there are so many axes in my house, when they are alone with me. Anyway, there are "voices" calling me to other work now.  Only the paranoids really know what is going on....

Best regards, MurrayBacon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dave, if you can &#8220;prove&#8221; the lie, &#8220;prove&#8221; the damage that resulted and &#8220;prove&#8221; the cause and effect link between the lie and the damages (without previously being thrown out of caught part way through), then it should be quite straightforward.</p>
<p>While you are at it, don&#8217;t forget about <a href="http://menz.org.nz/2008/evidence-is-easily-swept-away-by-sympathy/" rel="nofollow">Sympathy</a>, that great slayer of real evidence when out of sight of public gaze!</p>
<p>Remember that perjury is charged in the District Court, whereas the information to prove it - in the protection order example - comes from the familycaught.  In this unfortunate instance, you will be required to obtain the permission of a familycaught &#8220;judge&#8221; for &#8220;publication&#8221; of the evidence in the District Court.</p>
<p>Normally, this would be a mere formality, but our NZ familycaught &#8220;judges&#8221; don&#8217;t see it as permission that should not be unreasonably with-held.  On the contrary, Judge Sharp dismissed Jeff Page&#8217;s private perjury prosecution out of hand and refused to allow even a 15 minute adjournment, so that such permission could be sought. I was not there, but I was told she made some comment along the lines that &#8220;these women should not be being prosecuted for perjury&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://menz.org.nz/2007/lets-prosecute-child-abductors/" rel="nofollow">Perjury left unprosecuted by St. Patrick</a>  see #37</p>
<p><strong>Alternative Path of Complaint</strong><br />
When a Protection Order application is made without notice, the solicitor must supply a certificate saying that they have made reasonable enquiries and the material facts supplied are truthful, and complete and not misleading.</p>
<p>There are &#8220;meant&#8221; to be severe penalties applying, when this certificate is supplied, without the enquiries being competently completed.  One example that I know of, is a man working from his home.  This detail was left out of affidavits, presumably deliberately by the woman&#8217;s solicitor.  The net result was the man being denied access to his tools of work and workplace.  The solicitor covered this, by not putting his work address on the application, so it wasn&#8217;t obvious that this detail was being hidden from the familycaught &#8220;judge&#8221;.</p>
<p>The woman&#8217;s ruse worked.  The man just gave up his business and allowed it to be largely destroyed, what had taken a number of years to build up.</p>
<p>To my dismay, the man refused to make a formal complaint, as he considered that the Law Soiety would fail to act on the complaint.  I knew he was right, however, as a first step it is necessary to go through the motions.  Then later - in theory - it is possible to blow this issue up in front of the Law Society and demand that the Legislature remove this legislation, as the legal workers lack the integrity and skills to process it ethically and competently.</p>
<p>Thus, the responsibility for this defective legislation remaining on the books, lies with us men - when we don&#8217;t follow through with formal complaints.</p>
<p>I know that prosecuting perjury is the &#8220;responsibility&#8221; of the police and that they are well paid to do it. However, I suppose that it has got to be boring, so they do other <strong>things</strong>.</p>
<p>It seems that all? perjury prosecutions in the last 10 years have been private.  On acassion, the police will refund the costs of the private prosecution, but the risks were carried by the indivividual that initiated the private prosecution (policeman prosecuted for perjury at Whakatane a few years back). </p>
<p>It seems that the police are leaving international child abduction largely to private prosecution.  Our children will only be protected when we stop waiting for the police and get in and do the prosecutions ourselves.</p>
<p>I hope that this makes clear, why there is such a dire need for successful teamwork.  We cannot protect our children, through private prosecutions at an individual level.  We only have a chance of success, if we work successfully together.</p>
<p>All of these things frustrate me intensely, leading to my well known problems with impulse control. I just don&#8217;t want anyone to find out why there are so many axes in my house, when they are alone with me. Anyway, there are &#8220;voices&#8221; calling me to other work now.  Only the paranoids really know what is going on&#8230;.</p>
<p>Best regards, MurrayBacon.</p>
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		<title>By: allan Harvey</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-186838</link>
		<dc:creator>allan Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-186838</guid>
		<description>The cops have a cast iron perjury case against Kaye Skelton.  Do they prosecute?
Not yet anyway and I think we can all predict they won't ever.  Dad has spent nearly $200,000 in that case but there is no redress for that either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cops have a cast iron perjury case against Kaye Skelton.  Do they prosecute?<br />
Not yet anyway and I think we can all predict they won&#8217;t ever.  Dad has spent nearly $200,000 in that case but there is no redress for that either.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-186837</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-186837</guid>
		<description>Does any one know if in NZ you can bring a civil action against someone who lied and got a protection order? I guess it would be impossible to prove. I know there was a case of civil action for perjury in the Family Court but I don't know how that turned out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does any one know if in NZ you can bring a civil action against someone who lied and got a protection order? I guess it would be impossible to prove. I know there was a case of civil action for perjury in the Family Court but I don&#8217;t know how that turned out.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-186836</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-186836</guid>
		<description>"Best regards, MurrayBacon the random axe murderer."
LOL!!!
Murray, I must be the only one that knows why you sign off this way. Everyone else must think you're nuts!!!
Me - I &lt;strong&gt;know&lt;/strong&gt; your nuts!!! LOL.
P.S. - great post at #6</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Best regards, MurrayBacon the random axe murderer.&#8221;<br />
LOL!!!<br />
Murray, I must be the only one that knows why you sign off this way. Everyone else must think you&#8217;re nuts!!!<br />
Me - I <strong>know</strong> your nuts!!! LOL.<br />
P.S. - great post at #6</p>
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		<title>By: Perseus</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-184770</link>
		<dc:creator>Perseus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 11:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-184770</guid>
		<description>Would a bomb at his front door wake him up ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would a bomb at his front door wake him up ?</p>
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		<title>By: Colin of Nazareth</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-184767</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin of Nazareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-184767</guid>
		<description>NEW ZEALAND JUSTICE SYSTEM
The  childs  mother  defended  what  was  in  her  affidavit  even  when challenged  by  lawyer  John Dines, which now  i  think  of  it  only greater  emphasises  a  stronger  case  of  perjury  against her, because  not only  were  her  false  statements  in  police  summary  of  facts,  she also  defended  these  statements  when  challenged  by  a  lawyer  under oath. 
 
 The charge  was  3  x  Male  Assaults  Female.  The  NZ  Police  are  a  confident  bunch  when  it  comes  to  going  the  distance. I  started  out  with  3  x  charges  and  they  wanted  to  reduce  it  to  1  x  charge if i  pleaded  guilty, all  within  seconds before the  trial was to start, i was furious, i said no way, there were no assaults and we went back in the court room. 





The  idiot  Judge  said,  because  there  were  many  allegations,  i.e. 3,  that  you  must  be  guilty.  So  he  said,  i  can  not  see  any evidence  but  we  will  convict  you  of  3  x  common  assault  coz  we are  not  sure.

The  Judge  was  Judge  Moore, he  was  always  falling  asleep  on  the   bench  too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NEW ZEALAND JUSTICE SYSTEM<br />
The  childs  mother  defended  what  was  in  her  affidavit  even  when challenged  by  lawyer  John Dines, which now  i  think  of  it  only greater  emphasises  a  stronger  case  of  perjury  against her, because  not only  were  her  false  statements  in  police  summary  of  facts,  she also  defended  these  statements  when  challenged  by  a  lawyer  under oath. </p>
<p> The charge  was  3  x  Male  Assaults  Female.  The  NZ  Police  are  a  confident  bunch  when  it  comes  to  going  the  distance. I  started  out  with  3  x  charges  and  they  wanted  to  reduce  it  to  1  x  charge if i  pleaded  guilty, all  within  seconds before the  trial was to start, i was furious, i said no way, there were no assaults and we went back in the court room. </p>
<p>The  idiot  Judge  said,  because  there  were  many  allegations,  i.e. 3,  that  you  must  be  guilty.  So  he  said,  i  can  not  see  any evidence  but  we  will  convict  you  of  3  x  common  assault  coz  we are  not  sure.</p>
<p>The  Judge  was  Judge  Moore, he  was  always  falling  asleep  on  the   bench  too.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin of Nazareth</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-184660</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin of Nazareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-184660</guid>
		<description>Mr  Bacon,
          # 1.  pigs  bacon  is  by  no  means,  reference  to  your  good name.
I received  your e-mail, but i have my own views. 

You  will  not  acheive  anything  with  your  protests  against  legal  workers. I  am  not  interested  in  this  style  of  rebellion.  Thank  you.

It  is  about  time  transparency  and  accountability  entered  the  arena.

1.  Nature  of  offence, injury sustained  (medical  professional  verification)
2.  Name  of  offendant
3.  Name  of  complainant.  

A  national (internet) data  base  or  NZ Herald (monthly)  documentation  of  the  specifics, to  supposed  Domestic  Violence.

I  believe  Domestic  Violence  is  a  myth  until  i  see  the  evidence.
Department  of  Statistics (Ministry of Justice) is  not  good  enough  because  half  the  Judges are  convicting people  without credible  evidence,  to  fudge  the  numbers.  

Domestic  Violence  must  be  the  biggest  organised  scam  in  this  country.  

Shame  on  Justice  of  the  Peace  and  all  you  corrupt New  Zealand  Judiciary. (Judge  Jeremy  Doogue  excluded)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr  Bacon,<br />
          # 1.  pigs  bacon  is  by  no  means,  reference  to  your  good name.<br />
I received  your e-mail, but i have my own views. </p>
<p>You  will  not  acheive  anything  with  your  protests  against  legal  workers. I  am  not  interested  in  this  style  of  rebellion.  Thank  you.</p>
<p>It  is  about  time  transparency  and  accountability  entered  the  arena.</p>
<p>1.  Nature  of  offence, injury sustained  (medical  professional  verification)<br />
2.  Name  of  offendant<br />
3.  Name  of  complainant.  </p>
<p>A  national (internet) data  base  or  NZ Herald (monthly)  documentation  of  the  specifics, to  supposed  Domestic  Violence.</p>
<p>I  believe  Domestic  Violence  is  a  myth  until  i  see  the  evidence.<br />
Department  of  Statistics (Ministry of Justice) is  not  good  enough  because  half  the  Judges are  convicting people  without credible  evidence,  to  fudge  the  numbers.  </p>
<p>Domestic  Violence  must  be  the  biggest  organised  scam  in  this  country.  </p>
<p>Shame  on  Justice  of  the  Peace  and  all  you  corrupt New  Zealand  Judiciary. (Judge  Jeremy  Doogue  excluded)</p>
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		<title>By: AnnieB</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-184643</link>
		<dc:creator>AnnieB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-184643</guid>
		<description>Dear Murray
I'll vote for you!  
thanks
annie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Murray<br />
I&#8217;ll vote for you!<br />
thanks<br />
annie</p>
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		<title>By: Colin of Nazareth</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/usa-cop-acts-to-curb-abuse-of-men-by-false-complainants/#comment-184549</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin of Nazareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=2240#comment-184549</guid>
		<description>I  will  say  for  the  record  i  know  of  only  one  good  Judge  in  New  Zealand  and  his  name  is  Jeremy  Doogue,  there  may  be  others,  but  i  must  admit  i  was  impressed  by  this  fellow in  every  manner  of  speaking,  when  i  appeared  before  him (criminal court)  in  1998. 	He has a reputation of not being intimidated by powerful (and undue) influences.
Judge  Marie  Sharpe  was  okay  too  i  guess  for  a  woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  will  say  for  the  record  i  know  of  only  one  good  Judge  in  New  Zealand  and  his  name  is  Jeremy  Doogue,  there  may  be  others,  but  i  must  admit  i  was  impressed  by  this  fellow in  every  manner  of  speaking,  when  i  appeared  before  him (criminal court)  in  1998. 	He has a reputation of not being intimidated by powerful (and undue) influences.<br />
Judge  Marie  Sharpe  was  okay  too  i  guess  for  a  woman.</p>
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