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	<title>Comments on: We do not have abortion on demand in this country!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/</link>
	<description>- promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience -</description>
	<pubDate>Thu,  8 Jan 2009 12:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: wendy</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/#comment-165402</link>
		<dc:creator>wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=1933#comment-165402</guid>
		<description>Im against abortion too. Sorry, I think its murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im against abortion too. Sorry, I think its murder.</p>
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		<title>By: Hadi Akbari</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/#comment-165094</link>
		<dc:creator>Hadi Akbari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=1933#comment-165094</guid>
		<description>Hi guys, abortion is murder as the foetus is a living human being but taking drugs and drinking alcohol when pregnant is just as bad and a lot of woman do just that, the father of a child has as many rights to the childs welfare as the mother if the mother even knows who the father is, it is really bad using a child against the other parent, they deserve better than that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys, abortion is murder as the foetus is a living human being but taking drugs and drinking alcohol when pregnant is just as bad and a lot of woman do just that, the father of a child has as many rights to the childs welfare as the mother if the mother even knows who the father is, it is really bad using a child against the other parent, they deserve better than that</p>
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		<title>By: Hans Laven</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/#comment-165030</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans Laven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=1933#comment-165030</guid>
		<description>The abortion debate will rage on no doubt with little give on either side.  I don't agree with "abortion is murder" sentiments, I am quite comfortable with abortions in certain situations and I am comfortable with a democratic choice by human societies over such matters as what stage of development a foetus is given separate human rights.  However, I do agree that there are far-reaching philosophical implications involved and that it is appropriate for society to give careful thought to the circumstances in which abortions are made available and that agreed rules are adhered to.  

What I am more interested in is whether and exactly how fathers' wishes might be taken into account in decisions about abortions.  The feminist cry is "it's a woman's choice" but surely the father is not totally irrelevant?  Yet, given that it's the mother's body that will carry the foetus and it's the mother who will usually breast feed and mainly care for the baby, it is reasonable to give more weight to her interests and wishes than to the father's.  "Half the say" is not reasonable when most of the physical, practical and lifestyle costs are borne by the woman.  However, I would at least like to see a legal requirement that the father be consulted and involved in meetings about the decision if he so desires (or perhaps as a legal requirement on him).  This at least ensures that his wishes and possible contribution towards the new human life are recorded and considered by all concerned.  At present I don't think fathers are necessarily given the time of day in the process of decsions about either abortions or adoptions.  That is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned.  How many aborted and adopted-out children might have been reared with the benefit of the loving commitment a father's genetic connection can provide?

A further concern is the actions of pregnant women that might damage the development of a foetus that they intend to carry to full term.  At present I don't think women are held legally accountable at all for causing developmental damage through alcohol or drug use, smoking cigarettes, physically risky activities, starving themselves or any other behaviour.  the baby is then born with birth defects, foetal alcohol syndrome, prematurity, low birth weight and the woman can if she wishes simply give up the care of the difficult baby to someone else or the state.  However, if a man does something that might harm the foetus, e.g. punches a pregnant woman in the stomach, this will certainly increase the perceived seriousness of his actions, e.g. the assault.  Even upsetting the pregnant woman would be seen by the Family Court as potentially abusive to the foetus, while the same Court will ignore evidence about the mother's own actions when pregnant.      

I would be grateful to hear any other ideas concerning the isssue of father's rights and involvement in decisions about abortions and/or the issue of how women as well as men might be held accountable for actions affecting a foetus.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The abortion debate will rage on no doubt with little give on either side.  I don&#8217;t agree with &#8220;abortion is murder&#8221; sentiments, I am quite comfortable with abortions in certain situations and I am comfortable with a democratic choice by human societies over such matters as what stage of development a foetus is given separate human rights.  However, I do agree that there are far-reaching philosophical implications involved and that it is appropriate for society to give careful thought to the circumstances in which abortions are made available and that agreed rules are adhered to.  </p>
<p>What I am more interested in is whether and exactly how fathers&#8217; wishes might be taken into account in decisions about abortions.  The feminist cry is &#8220;it&#8217;s a woman&#8217;s choice&#8221; but surely the father is not totally irrelevant?  Yet, given that it&#8217;s the mother&#8217;s body that will carry the foetus and it&#8217;s the mother who will usually breast feed and mainly care for the baby, it is reasonable to give more weight to her interests and wishes than to the father&#8217;s.  &#8220;Half the say&#8221; is not reasonable when most of the physical, practical and lifestyle costs are borne by the woman.  However, I would at least like to see a legal requirement that the father be consulted and involved in meetings about the decision if he so desires (or perhaps as a legal requirement on him).  This at least ensures that his wishes and possible contribution towards the new human life are recorded and considered by all concerned.  At present I don&#8217;t think fathers are necessarily given the time of day in the process of decsions about either abortions or adoptions.  That is not acceptable as far as I&#8217;m concerned.  How many aborted and adopted-out children might have been reared with the benefit of the loving commitment a father&#8217;s genetic connection can provide?</p>
<p>A further concern is the actions of pregnant women that might damage the development of a foetus that they intend to carry to full term.  At present I don&#8217;t think women are held legally accountable at all for causing developmental damage through alcohol or drug use, smoking cigarettes, physically risky activities, starving themselves or any other behaviour.  the baby is then born with birth defects, foetal alcohol syndrome, prematurity, low birth weight and the woman can if she wishes simply give up the care of the difficult baby to someone else or the state.  However, if a man does something that might harm the foetus, e.g. punches a pregnant woman in the stomach, this will certainly increase the perceived seriousness of his actions, e.g. the assault.  Even upsetting the pregnant woman would be seen by the Family Court as potentially abusive to the foetus, while the same Court will ignore evidence about the mother&#8217;s own actions when pregnant.      </p>
<p>I would be grateful to hear any other ideas concerning the isssue of father&#8217;s rights and involvement in decisions about abortions and/or the issue of how women as well as men might be held accountable for actions affecting a foetus.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bailey</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/#comment-165021</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=1933#comment-165021</guid>
		<description>Abortion is murder - It will be used in many ways to get the best deal for somebody until Equal Shared Parenting, preferably HandsOnEqualParenting becomes LAW from conception so that DAD and his family have half the say in the matter

The Womens choice as in the Mans choice is to have or not to have sex

There the choices STOP until the result is mature 

Onward

Ration Shed - Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abortion is murder - It will be used in many ways to get the best deal for somebody until Equal Shared Parenting, preferably HandsOnEqualParenting becomes LAW from conception so that DAD and his family have half the say in the matter</p>
<p>The Womens choice as in the Mans choice is to have or not to have sex</p>
<p>There the choices STOP until the result is mature </p>
<p>Onward</p>
<p>Ration Shed - Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Scrap_The_CSA</title>
		<link>http://menz.org.nz/2008/we-do-not-have-abortion-on-demand-in-this-country/#comment-165020</link>
		<dc:creator>Scrap_The_CSA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menz.org.nz/?p=1933#comment-165020</guid>
		<description>It is fascinating that abortion is couched as a womens right to choose yet if she chooses to keep the baby the man has no right to choose to not pay the child &lt;strike&gt;support&lt;/strike&gt; tax.

If a women chooses not to abort a child why should the father be required to pay a percentage of his salary to her/state for 19 years?

Oh and is ripping your child apart in the womb domestic violence?

Regards

Scrap</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is fascinating that abortion is couched as a womens right to choose yet if she chooses to keep the baby the man has no right to choose to not pay the child <strike>support</strike> tax.</p>
<p>If a women chooses not to abort a child why should the father be required to pay a percentage of his salary to her/state for 19 years?</p>
<p>Oh and is ripping your child apart in the womb domestic violence?</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Scrap</p>
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