Trespass: Background and Advice
A wee while ago on this site I spoke about the trespass laws – one of the most abused pieces of legislation in NZ law in my personal opinion. I recall getting a bit of feed back and requests for more information. Successfully defeating an application for a Protection Order has kept me busy on other fronts but now with a bit more time on my hands I thought I might revisit this topic and offer up what further advice I can.
This advice is based on my discussions with friendly police and lawyers I know and security guards in the business of issuing trespass notices. In this area it is really a case of know thine enemy – learn as much as you can from those that issue them on a regular basis. It can be quite enlightening learning the “tricks of their trade”.
Trespass After Being Given a Warning to Leave
If a person is considered to be trespassing they have to warned that he or she is trespassing and that the Police will be called if he or she does not leave. If the person then refuses to leave, the person commits an offence against the Act.
However, the person has a defence if he or she proves that it was necessary to remain for his or her own protection or the protection of some other person, or because of some emergency involving his or her property or some other person’s property. The protection of the other person in this case can be your child and something you can argue before a Judge. Remember a very large number of trespass cases are thrown out by Judge if violence is not involved. Also remember the Trespass Act is used to basically get rid of people at the time. If you challenge it in Court, often the Police won’t bothered opposing it unless there was violence or criminal damage.
Many Trespass Notices are issued in the belief they won’t be challenged in Court. Defending them can cause the other party some considerable grief and legal costs. You can achieve a degree of payback for them having you locked up at the time for trespass, albeit briefly. For a trespass offence the Police will not keep you locked up for very long. Most protesters, who get locked up for trespass have the charges withdrawn later by the police. That is why they always plead not guilty (as indeed should you). The Police will then have to decide if they are going to devote precious resources to a borderline case which they may very well lose. Often they will withdraw months later when it first comes before the Courts.
Issuing a Trespass Notice (A “Warning to Stay Off”)
The law entitles you to deliver a warning to another person to stay off your property if the person is trespassing or has trespassed, in which case the warning must be given at the time of the trespass or within a reasonable time after it. You may also give a warning to stay off if you have reasonable cause to suspect that a person is likely to trespass. Once you have given a written warning to stay off, the person commits an offence if he or she enters your property within two years of the warning.
Although it is advisable to issue the person with a written trespass notice, a legally effective warning to stay off can be given orally. A written trespass notice must be given to the person directly or be sent by registered mail.
Warnings From the Court to Stay Off
If a person has been convicted of an offence against the Trespass Act in relation to any place, the Court can warn the offender to stay off that place, in which case the person commits a further offence if he or she enters the place within two years of the warning.
Defences to Trespassing After a Warning to Stay Off
A person charged with trespassing after a warning to stay off will have a defence if he or she proves that:
1) the person who gave the warning, or on whose behalf it was given, is no longer an occupier of the property, or
2) the trespass was necessary for the defendant’s own protection or for the protection of some other person, or because of some emergency involving the defendant’s property or that of some other person
Who can Exercise the Rights Against Trespass Under the Act?
You can take action against a trespasser if you are an “occupier” of the land. Therefore the protection under the Act applies not just to owners of property but also to tenants and licensees (a “licensee” is a person who has permission to be on the land).
The Defence of “Consent”
A common defence against a charge under the Trespass Act is that the occupier consented to the person going on to the property. It is important to remember that everybody has an implied license (that is, permission) to walk up the path and knock on your door. You then must ask the person to leave and give him or her reasonable time to leave at the most convenient exit before the person becomes a trespasser.
Actions of Security Guards
Properly trained security guards are all trained in the legislation of the Trespass Act. The security guards know that to simply administer a verbal warning can often provide an opportunity for protesters to contest the warning. Therefore, the real professionals issue offenders on the spot with a written notice warning them to stay off the property and leaving no area for dispute.
Conclusion
In conclusion, the Trespass Act is a powerful on the spot tool to have you removed immediately, and that is where you will lose. The police will drag you off to jail for a very short time. But from there on in the worm begins to turn if you challenge it. You will be free in a couple of hours and then the person who trespased you starts to feel the bite as you take legal action to challenge the Trespass Notice.
With schools the defence to ensure the protection of your children gives you a good chance of success as you can argue psychological and emotional protection in addition to just physical. For example, you could argue your children needed to see you in order to feel emotionally safe. Take the argument into the subjective, which introduce an element of doubt. Once you have an element of doubt, you’ve won the case in a criminal court – unlike the Family Court which sadly often requires hardly any burden of proof at all. The woeful wailings of your ex-partner are often enough to turn a PC Judge’s head.
Kia Kaha fellow fathers!
Gerry
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AS you say Gerry Tresspass orders work to get the cops to act. With proposed changes to the DVA PO’s will be dispensed by the cops in a similar confetti paper style.
Being co-operative and negotiating will work much better than confrontation which will just end up with a cop imposed interim PO followed by a Judical PO (normally for life) obtained on an ex-parte basis within the 5 days.
alan what is the negotiations don’t work, the trespass is illegal most likely (as it’s for a joint owner of the property issued by the other owner who occupies it and in this way keeps the first owner away and manages to live there rent free)
The police still says the trespass notice is legal. What would you do then?
Ben had a good idea of talking with Community Law. I am 100% certain that you cannot be trespassed from a property you jointly own. Cops first, then Community Law is my advice.
Successfully defeating a Protection Order, Yay , go you good thing !! Huge respect for you my brother …. You ned to put the details of that one up (avoiding any names or references of course !)
Thanks Gerry. This is great information.
Something of interest regarding the proposed legislation of protection orders.
http://ludditejourno.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/bashing-bills/
Thanks for your kind comment and link Julie. I read the link and it encouraged me to write an opposing submission to the Parliamentary Committee considering the new Bill. I hope others will also make submissions. It is a really excellent and informative link that Julie has posted. Probably the best I’ve seen in terms of providing information about the new “Safety Orders”.
I hope to post a submission proforma and draft letter to the Minister of Justice on this subject, to make it easier for others using this site to copy and paste it and send them into the politicans.
Awesome Gerry.
This post may help if you have not written a submission before. It has some examples through JohnP’s comment.
http://menz.org.nz/2008/thanx-to-lucy-for-this-we-have-a-chance/
Hi Gerry and all
This is my first response. I am very interested in hearing about your successful defeat of a Protection order. My X wife has gone on the DPB and launched a such attack on me. We had a shouting match in my driveway and she managed to get the law to come up with a Protection order against me for both her and our kids. The one for the kids was dropped at the first hearing (costing me $2000 in lawyers bills) and now after access has been dictated by X i have to wait till march for the court day. I never touched her and the kids weren’t even present. Anyway, I would be keen to know what a farther can do in this situation. I had the kids 5-6 nights out of every 14 and 50% of school holidays. I have remarried and have a 1 year old as well and 2 further dependens. We have been kept at 142 days access per year by X as to not qualify for shared care in the child support department. For the first month after the initial incident i got to see my 2 kids for 24 hours. Thereafter X got to more or less dictate terms and let me have them 4 nights of every 14. though leaving quite a few gabs initially.
I will be paying lawyers and missing my kids all due to false allegations. What can i due when the ordeal is over and she is proved wrong ? any restoration ?
Any comment would be nice.
Hi Odin
When you say “she managed to get the law to come up with a protection order against me” do you mean the police were called out and/or you were arrested? Are we just talking about an application for an order or that one was actually granted ex-parte? Were the applications without notice or on notice? POs are often used by lawyers just to scare you – hence why they are so commonly abused.
Is the March court date for hearing the PO or a Parenting Order? Normally an application for a PO would include the ex-wife and the kids in the same application, so the two should have been dealt with at the same time.
You say access has been dictated by the X. Have you filed for a Parenting Order or considered cross-filing? Also you can cross file for a Protection Order claiming psychological abuse. This was something I should have done.
Without knowing the exact details you might have a good chance of beating the PO if there was no physical violence at all re the incident that sparked this off – even if there has been proven violence in the past. There are four criteria for a PO before a judge should grant one. One is that a judge has to decide if it is likely that domestic violence will occur again in the future, even if it is found to have occurred in the past. If you can show that it won’t you can win on this ground – ie: you have built a new life for youself; are not hanging around or calling her and can show that you accept the relationship is over and have moved on.
You can also defeat a PO if you can show that there is a chance the ex will abuse a PO if one is granted.
If you send me more details I can provide whatever advice I can. Bear in mind it is expensive to fight a PO – that is why so many men don’t bother or self litigate against smart lawyers employed by the ex. To win you probably need a good lawyer or a really smart McKenzie friend.
Good luck
Thanks for you response Gerry
The police was not called and I was never served a PO. She must have gone to the police after picking up the kids (the time of the incident).There was newer violence against her or the kids. Early in the marriage i punched a few walls and doors (maybe 4-5 time between 96 and 2001). I do have a lawyer at 250$ +gst per hour. I was the one that broke of the marriage and the incident was at my house in my driveway that she had been asked not to enter. She does claim i was controlling during and after the marriage and insists that i need anger management. I am quite sure I will beat the PO. I do not understand why she managed to get one in the first place. I do not understand why she has the rights to dictate when i am allowed to have the kids until the hearing.
What i really want is the kids a minimum of 50% of the time. And then i would really like to know if there is any restoration due to false accusations ? Like the financial and emotional cost that this will have. I will be out several thousand dollars and will over months have missed out on time with my kids. I’m here more worried about the kids as they are very clingy when they are with me. They have a step brother and sister with us of similar age and a half brother here as well. They all get on like a house on fire. The money we are now spending on lawyers we had ear marked for renovating our very run down house a bit so there would be more room for all five kids.
I am not 100% sure what the hearing in march is about. The hearing we have been trough so for was a “section 60″ I think. To get me access until this is resolved. I think the hearing in march will cover both the protection order and the parental “time” allocation.
Should i get my lawyer to file for a parental order ? What if X has already filed for a parental order ?
I am negotiating with the IRD about working for families tax credits and the fact that i have had shared care in their view for the last 4 years. (WFFTC’s shared care is only 122 days but the child support is 146 nights).
Thanks again.
hi am from new zealand the only rason i got tresspass etc was not cuse i dint want him to see kids etc it was he thought after wot had done he still thought he could hite control me even after he has a misstresss and hurt me still carried on hurting and getting away with it so me standing for myself was showing he couldnt do it any more he loved hurting following etc didnt think he was doing anything wrong that the point he was in the wrong wanted him to leave me alone i was a messs
Hello,
I had a trespass order issued against me by a place of business as I kicked up a fuss because they would not honor a voucher they had sent out. They called the police, I said I was happy for them to come, but of course the police took the store manager’s (a 22 year old Female with no managerial experience) side. Eneway getting trespassed is not the issue for me. The issue is that the business sent a letter to my employer telling them of the trespass. Isnt that against the law?
Thank you,
Kat.
If I were you I’d be in contact with the office of the Privacy Commissioner to run it by them.
I would agree, rather than run it by them, just lay a complaint and see what transpires. I can guarantee it will at the very least cause the person who sent it some grief by having to explain themselves to the Privacy Commissioner. In your complaint tell the Commissioner how stressed and upset this incident has caused you, by feeling embarrassed and humiliated in front of your employer. In order for a complaint to stand up, you must show the Commissioner there has been adverse outcomes for you by the action of the disclosure. If there have been no adverse outcomes a complaint will not progress under the Act. Good luck.
Thank you all, very helpful. I am also thinking of challenging the trespass order too, there was no violence involved, that will probably not help the owners case either. Thanks muchly.
You can’t challenge a Trespass Notice. It is just a formal written warning anyway and there is no legal way to challenge it.
what if you are innocent and have been accused of stealing from an opp-shop.
i was served a verbal trespass notice by police officer.
he did not get his facts right in first instance.
opp-shop told officer they “had seen me take something”
officer said “so are you going to give back what you took”
my reply was “how can i give back something i didn’t take in the first place”
so later same day i went to see the officer in question.
he then said “they (opp-shop) only suspected i had taken something.
so now i am screwed for 2 years.
cops suck
The thing about trespass notices is that the defence is post-factor. That is if you are arrested for trespass you challenge the alleged trespass in Court either because it was necessary at the time or you were exercising your civil rights of protest.
You can’t, as Allen says, challenge a trespass notice, but you can challenge the arrest for trespass – if you decide to defy the trespass order. The Courts have a pretty long history of not endorsing trespass charges – the protest movement is routinely charged with trespass and routinely these charges are dismissed on the grounds the act was legitimate protest or dissent.
You just have to decide if you want or need the hassle of being locked up, photographed, finger printed and going through the Court process. If your actions were motoivated by moral principles you have a good chance of getting off. The cops really don’t have the time and resources to prosecute minor trespass charges and often drop them furhter down the track. As a general rule the cops use arrest for trespass as a temporary solution. It allows them to remove and “solve” the problem for now. Often it is hardly worth their effort prosecuting and they know that. So do all my friends in the protest movement and that is why they are unafraid of being arrested for trespass. Frequently the charges don’t stick.
ok so I am onto it, if it doesn’t work can you gather your protest friends in front of the jail. My GF will give you a shout and tell you where I am locked up. What if you trespass to your own property but you mad ex partner attacks you phisicaly? Should she be charged? Should I actualy call police myself when I am in front of my doors and tell them I am going to act against their trespass.
Oh appaently the trespass is also punishable by NZ$1000 was this ever enforced?
well i have had a nightmare of a time with a protection order some my family have been tresspased my grandma 79 yrs one day out or hosptial tresspass notice i some times wounder why i pay tax i have come to the other end of the country and am still being threatend by the protection order for me this is about unstable people haveing power over people even after they have seperated how can i stop it i have 2 children that are involved
Hi, have situation where one of my tenants has been, supposedly, issued with trespass notice by a neighbour.This came to head recently, when children playing on front lawn accidentally kicked ball into neighbours driveway and neighbour,rather than kick it back, decided to hold onto and sighted trespass notice as his defence for taking ball.My question is, can a trepass order be blanket, that is issued to someone and applies to family members as my understanding is that the notice needs to be specific? The mother was away from property at the time.
Trespass notice needs to be specific to person not a family, however they could serve one on everyone. Notices don’t apply to young children.
However Trespass notice is just a formal warning and means nothing more than that anyway.
You are quite correct. A trespass notice has to be taken out against a specific individual who has to be named in the notice. A seperate notice is required for each individual. In this case your neighbour would have to serve a trespass notice on each family member. You tenant should have a copy of the trespass notice or at least recall being served with one.
Please note a trespass notice has to be served on the person it relates to. You just can not take one out and not tell the individual. Your neighbour would have to serve one on each family member – not an easy task. Service is normally done by a licensed private investigator or the police – in the latter case only in relation to inlawful entry or occupation.
The police will not involve themselves in a civil case, such as this. Also, a judge would probably take a dim view to someone who served a trespass notice on children for playing football.
Technically your neighbour is holding onto the ball illegally. You might try asking your local community cop to mediate to get it back, but it depends on how community-minded the said constable is.
Good luck.
Hi, I’m new to this site and found it while doing a web search regarding “trespass notices”. Why am I here asking…well a (friend) of mine issued me with a “trespass” noticed today. This notice applies to his place of business. I was wondering if I have any recourse regarding this or any way of removing this against me.
I presume the reason he issues this against me is due to him having personal issues against his partner, which I know and does not want me on the premises helping her run their/her business.
I have not done anything toward my (friend) to understand why he issued me this only for the reason given above…to stop me from helping his partner out.
Who by the way has a restraining & trespass notice against him.
If you can shed some light on this as to what can be done, this would be great help.
Many thanks,
Jay
It is only a Trespass warning but if he does not want you then stay away. There is no form of recourse to a warning.
Enforcing it will be a problem. He has to lodge a copy with the police and then get them to respond if you trespass. But frankly why would you? Sounds like you have been drawn into their conflict. I would be interested to know if your friend has trespassed him, does this include the work place? I assume you mean she has a protection order? A restraining order is a little different. Sorry to hear of your strife. It happens when friends get caught between a break up.
Hi, thanks Allan & Gerry for your reply, much appreciated.
YAH! a big pile of pooh. Returned from Aussie and handed this….WOW.
It was delivered today by courier…is this legal???
Not sure re: protection or restraining order….all I know is he punched her in the face…not good on his part.
I found out after writing that others have been issued this as well.
My female friend contacted the police after I advised of this and they advised her that if I or any of the others issued with this “trespass noticed” can enter premises so long as we are with her……….is this correct. I tried finding something in writing online but no luck. Can you advise.
Many thanks
Gerry please help
I own a property with K (joint ownership 50/ 50 shares) .
I paid for half of the house and most of the chatells. When I moved out 1,5 year ago I suggested that either we rent the proprty to the third party or one of us stayes and pays the other one half the value of market rent. K tricked me into moving out saying she will pay the rent. She also kept 90 % of all the chattels.
K hasn’t pay a penny since, for now 18 months. Furthermore I paid first 3 months insurance and then stopped not being able to aford. She is not paying insurance and the lawns were not mowed for 1,5 years. last December I told her I would like to move back in or at the very least use the downstairs granny flat for storage. I gave her notice and visited the downstairs in the morning and discovered a stranger living there. He said he is a lodger and pays K rent. I told him that if he wants to continue living there then we would have to make a different arrangement and he would need to pay me half rent directly. He agreed, paid me half rent for next week the next day and the same evening I received a trespass order under the Trespass Act 1980 sec 4(1) (2) and 4(4) from the police.
This stopped me taking any more rent from the lodger or moving back in.
I can not any longer pay the rent elsewhere, mortgage and not receiving any rent from K
It looks like we may end up in the family court but my lawyer said it would take a year as she K isdeneying any relationship with me so I will be left with all the morgage and other family debts whilst she could keep half of the joint property without any debts attached (yes they are all in my name) soI need to prove relationship
I have to leave the place I am staying in next 3 weeks. How can I have this trespass order lifted quickly without huge costs. That is a great way of kicking out the second owner and taking over the property. Yo uare right the legislation is grossly abused. What court do I appeal to?
The police said it is legal to trespass the owner if you are the occupier. Well the thing is I want to have the same use of my property too, I never said I move out permanently with no conditions and unlike other owners I can not take this case to the tenancy tribunal as K is not really a tanant as she ownes half of the property. With this trespass she can continue living on my half rent free and rent to lodgers for however long she wants.
I will be realy grateful for any advice you, or anyone else can give
Ken
You cannot be trespassed from a property you own 50:50. Trespass notices are just written warnings and if you own the place then it is completly invalid. I suggest you ask at the Police Station and speak to a senior sergant or similar.
thanks for this. I did speak to the senor seargantand my family lawyer who charges 400 an h did too with no result. They said we can challenge it but they believe it is legal. I explained I am the owner, I want to move back, I am not being paid any rent and moved out only on that condition. I wonder if i should simply inform K that as off this Fri I will be occupying the property again (apparently I loost my rights to the occupation when I moved out according to the police) and so theoreticaly I will be an occupier too, just trying to come back from the holiday. She will call police, they will arrest me and then I will see where it will take me. Otherwise I don’t know which court could lift it.
I just can’t have her not only living in but also recking my property and it is just ridiculous what police did. There was no violance, quite vice versa it is K who earlier this year attacked my new partner and was charged with an assault
Everyone says it can’t be legal but do I just act against police?
The other problem is that K will be no doubt very agressive. I can record my entry but it doesn’t seem to worry police when she is agresive on her own property where according to the police she is an occupier
I sent a letter to the police last week asking under which law did they issue the trespass notice, why do they think she is the sole occupier and where is the proof I moved out permanently but I doubt I will get any reply
If the trespass is illegal can I sue K or police?
This case just recks me down
Last weekend my partner wanted to see the house during the open home. She was told K will not be there. When she walked 5 steps into a joint driveway Kim run to her ith a metal rode and made some verbal threats that she will smash my partner’s face. Police does nothing even though K had a warning under harassement act, because they see it as provocation. All my partner wanted to do is to see if the house is properly presented for the open home as we had so many problems with K denying access to the agents or For Sale sign being always pushed into the gutter
I welcome any advice
(1) Have you talked with the Police (first) about issuing a trespass on her as the owner on a tenant subleasing without permission and continuing to abuse the tenancy arrangement? (2) (and most importantly) do you have access to a neutral party to engage in dialogue? (3) Do you keep ‘files’ and/or are they difficult to assemble in a chronological order?
thanks Benjamin
No I didn’t realise I can also issue a trespass notice to her. Even if I don’t occupy the property?
We don’t have tenancy agreement as such as the tenency tribunal wasn’t sure she can be treated as a tenant. I tried to get te rent off her earlier through the disputes tribunal but, as the case will go to the family court because of all the debts I am left with and all the chattels she is left with, they said it is therefore not under their jurisdiction and suggested it should all be looked at in the family court. The sad fact is though that I need 20 – 25K for te case and I can not also afford living elsewhere. We live in a place where it is completely impossible to rent in the summer and I am losing my current accomodation in three weeks. It’s ridiculous that I will be living on the street while being a half owner of the big property.
If I ask police to serve trespass notice on her will it not be like eviction? She is occupying the place so she can not just NOT BE THERE from one moment to the other can she? I have major difficulties with the police. Kim phisicaly assaulted my new partner, then got diversion but as it turned out didn’t pay for wilful damage she caused during the asoult and my partner wated to know why. This took some of the police time though they got nowhere and just close the case. Then Kim attacked me and, as adviced, I notified police as there was a witness. Then she harassed publicaly my partner again. Aagain police was involved. Then Kim decided to play silly game and started running to the police with tearful stories, all made up. police never to my knowledge found any grounds in Kim’s accusations and neither me nor my partner was charged nor warned by the police. Yet it was wasting a lot of police time and now police sees it all, also our very real problems with Kim, as a waste of time. Don’t know how happy they will be to serve trespass notice on K as they will see it as playing one against the other and using police in it…
K has a 17 year old daughter from the previous relationship, I spent a lot of my time and money on her. Now she had been turned against me and K uses her in the whole situation. She is a “single mother” so how can she be trespassed off the property she lives in? I SO DON’t KNOW what to do it and how to do it “politicaly correct” because of course I can not look like a monster in the family court and this is how she will try to portray me.
I have it all assembled chronologicaly.
Do you guys ever meet in Auckland?
oh and she is not realy a tenant according to the Tenancy Tribunal
The owner can not be a tenant:(
It’s all so complicated and messed up
Ask these questions of Community Law Auckland. It is the same with DPO’s. Fathers and men appear hesitant to use them even where there has been an assault by the woman and not the man. I have had many conversations trying to convince people to use these methods to compete with the discrimination. It won’t hurt you to try it but i do advise that you make an inquiry of Community Law first. The question to ask them is: why can I not take out a trespass order to get her out of the house, where I am excluded from my property on the strength of such a similar intrusive order.
Once you have an answer from this, (which I doubt anyone could give an immediate answer and would require case law) it is a ‘media case’. So the next step is to go directly to your MP. Make an attempt to get the order and be declined before you attempt either the media or the MP.
Yes I will be in Auckland sometime soon after January 28 ands my Easton v Human Rights Commission hearing. Hope fully I will be mobile and up there for about a month.
Thanks Benjamin. My partner and I would love to meet you if you find a spare moment. Is there anyway to talk to you on the phone too?
Re: my tyrespass – Gerry said there is no legal way to challenge it. Would you risk going as far as getting into the house against the trespass notice, probably getting arrested and arguing it afterwards?
This would serve the purpose provided that I would that manage to sort it out not that polie would release me without charges but arrest me again next time I come back to the house.
I said on numerous occassions that I would like her to vacate the property and we can then rent it out to the third party.
If I now inform her that I will be occupying it as from this Friday, even if I can not phisicaly move back in because she will be stoping me (I think she laso changed the locks) then I would become back the legal occupier so police shoud not discriminate against me on the grounds that I left the place and she is the only legal occupier.
Do you know any good lawyer who represents men in cases like this?
You guys are doing a great job. Thumbs up
http://www.communitylaw.org.nz/Grey-Lynn.74.0.html
Hey Guys
I think you are really needed. So often I hear about man being badly done by a woman and they usualy do nothing about it. They don’t protest about something that is clearly a gender injustice.
I am Ken’s gf and I can not stand how he is being treated by his expartner who uses her gender to virualy stop him in an illegal way from accessing the house that he jointly owes and the police who doesn’t treat it seriously, who just issued the trespass to keep trouble at bay not thinking how much injustice this is causing
Now Peter as I can imagine can not simply move back in as he will be arrested on the spot. He will have then no chance to trespass him because police will just ignore his request. So how about if I move there, either by breaking the locks with the permission of the second owner or while she is there (although I probably won’t manage to make a step into the house then so that’s the problem ) and then call police and trespass her. Do you know any activists who would like to move in with me? For a couple of days? Nice house near a beautiful beach???:)
what happens if you are tresspassed then the person who served it on you invites you over?
what happens if you are tresspassed then the person who served it on you invites you over? The police say that the order in void. But I am not sure could you please help me with this.
Oh and how do you find out you have an order against you if you have never been served with one.
If its not served on you you have a defence against any charge that is laid.
However the Act is very specific on what consitutes service so be carefull.
Regards
Scrap
reply to Eve
….Eve might I suggest don’t even think of going that road as in breaking in the house by yourself….You will be arrested and charged….
Sorry to say this but the ‘State’ and the ‘Law’ is on her side…For ‘He’ is the so called ‘Abuser’…’She’ is the so called ‘Victim’… That is how the system works in N.Z…And you can thank Extreme Feminism in our political system for the last 25 years that…… And if I come across ‘Blunt’ and ‘Hostile’ …My apology to you….
Classic example on a previous post concerning my ex brother law who was falsely accused of inappropriate sexual behavior towards his own children by his bitter and twisted feminist ex Lady partner…This is roughly what happen…
He,as in the Father was a sole care giver to his two daughters for three years….In lived a house that he purchased by himself and with the help of his parents…All were a very happy and contented Family….
She as in the Mother returns from the Australia,begs to stay at the Ex’s abode,for she calms she as no to support her in her hour of need…
He as a good heart and feels really sorry her….He lets her stay with him and the Daughters….in less then 3 days she phones the Police and says I feel threaten and I am been verbal abused…The Police arrives and without any proof what’s so ever,the Police kicks him out of his own house..Then she lays a false sexual accusations of sexual inference on the Daughters….He is arrested and charged….charges are throw out of court by a Judge who saw through the Charade
But this experienced on my ex brother law, traumatized him so much he never saw his Daughters ever again and left N.Z for Australia where he as now happily settled and remarried, He will never return to N.Z…Can I blame ….No….
And I myself will be leaving in two years time….And Eve then a lot of Kiwi Woman wonder why there is a Man drought in N.Z…????…Hello.????.. Doesn’t take a genius to work that one out….Does it…
Thanks for posting Eve…Kind regards John Dutchie
Afraid you are so right. I now asked 5 different lawyers, all say this tresspass can’t be legal but the police will not change it. They say just go to the court. The problem is that the same woman denies relationship as in this way she can take half the house without any debts. this means thught that if my partner takes her to the family court, he will first have to prove relationship. Funny because she says he was just a business partner, despite hm supporting her and her daughter for 3 years, but then she trespasses him from the property that apparently was their business. She is also a very agressive woman so police wants to keep the trespass notice to avoid any trouble.
well such is life. Hope the justice system will be more just than this. Will cost 25 K though to do it through the legal system.
I can see exactly what you mean about the difference in rights. The same woman I believe also abused the WINZ for ages, because, how would a single mother that doesn’t work have money for half of the house anyway. A few people said that she continued taking benefits while being supported so this may be an additional reason why she refuses to admit that she was living in a de facto relationship
So either the legal system or karma – what should we count on?
Best luck for you (where are you off to by the way? Poland by any chance?) and regards to your bro
cheers
eve
Reply to Eve
‘So either the legal system or karma – what should we count on?’…All what I know how pro Woman/Motherhood the Justice system is…And I sincerely hope I am proven wrong here …..But I know what my ‘Gut Feeling is’ telling me…Trust ‘Karma’…Not the Justice system….
Your comment on the ‘Aggressive Woman’ that is so encouraged here in ‘Feminism’ New Zealand …But a N.Z Man is so called or even hints of a ‘Aggressive’ nature….He is then label the Abuser by the N.Z Feminist system…….
I can remember when my two my Dutch Lady friends from the Amsterdam police force came to N.Z in 2002 and heard about the term of ‘Sensitive New Age Guy’….They laugh and said ‘Oh John do you mean N.Z Woman Feminists want there Man to insert a tampon up there anal passage once a month,to touch base with Feminist side’…..I crack up on that one….!!!!
….Heading to Australia to stay with my ex brother law…for a while, then heading to Perth I have quite a few friends permanently living there…been to Perth before,a very beautiful City…
Kind regards to you Eve….John Dutchie
all the best. Spent a year in Perth, my clothes and stuff is still there, you should give me a shout and I am happy to put you in touch with your feministe side by asking you to carry few dresses and panties across the board when you ever come back here, even if just for a visit
cheers
ev
didueverbungy@yahoo.com
Did I say you can’t challenge it?? What I meant was you can’t have it withdrawn but you can take it to Court to argue it that it wasn’t really trespass. Activists and protesters get charged all the time with trespass, but mostly get off on Bill of Rights angles or because the police can’t be bothered with the case. The cops tend to use arrest for trespass as a means of removing you there and then. They don’t so much care about what happens later. If they arrest you, good. They won’t be so keen to pursue it in the wider interests of justice and their workload. A civil charge of trespass is interesting and will be expensive to prosecute for very little gain in terms of what penalty a judge might hand down (if any).
For Ken – have you considered action under the Property (Relationship) Act? The beauty of this is that once you lodge the application, you can make an interloctory application and get a ruling on some issues. I have had some success with interloctory orders and you don’t have to wait so long for a final hearing to get a pay day.
Reply to Eve
.L.M.A.O…… Brilliant….!!!..Very witty….loved it…
John Dutchie
Hi there, I have been reading these posts and relating to some of them. I have a sticky situation I’m sure you can help me with!
My wife, daughter (2) and I lived at the mother in laws house. My wife cheated on me so I moved out into a flat. Now the mother in law has trespassed me from the property effectively preventing me from seeing my daughter (who I miss so so much…)! I also have stuff on the property I need to get too (like clothes etc).
What can I do? My mother in law is on the DPB for my daughter, and my wife is on the sickness benefit as she is an alcoholic! My daughter is not in a secure environment, missing out on routine and dicipline! I raised her for the first 1.5 years of her life and I am finding it difficult to be without her. Please help!
Hi Marcel,
I think you should join this site.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pauls-news/
Some of the men from here are there helping men and women in similar situations to yours.