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Wed 24th March 2010

Educating young people about the qualities of a successful marriage.

Filed under: General — Vman @ 3:35 pm

This is a very thoughtful insight by Mark Brandenburg.  The full article can be found here.

“Can we possibly continue with a system in which half of our children witness the breakup of their parent’s marriage? Is a divorce rate near 50% enough to have us consider new ideas about how we decide about marriage and divorce?

One idea we might consider is educating young people about the qualities of a successful marriage. The best way to do this is to model these qualities for your children. In addition, we can talk to them about the specific qualities and actions which make a marriage successful.

Here are some of those qualities:

1. Commitment:

According to one definition, “Commitment is a freely chosen inner resolve to follow through with a course even though difficulty arises.” How do we show our children what to do when difficulty arises? Do we move to where the grass is greener? Commitment is a daily discipline. It’s the chat after dinner, and the kiss before work. It’s the core from which we respond to difficulty.
It’s what makes our lives richer and deeper.

2. Emotional Awareness: If we know what’s really bothering us, we can have effective and meaningful conversations with our spouse. We can be genuine, honest, and open with each other. And we can discover that much of the pain we feel in our relationship is actually our past emotional history coming back to haunt us.

If you’re planning on getting married someday, you need to be aware of what your emotional issues are. Because, if you’re not aware of them, you’re a great candidate to add to a divorce rate that’s already staggering.

3. Be Kind, Not Right: We tend to have a tremendous stake in showing our loved ones that we’re right. An enormous amount of time is wasted in our relationships by arguing over who’s right or wrong. This excessive arguing is just an indication of our low self-esteem. A much easier and more effective way to be in a relationship is to commit to kindness. When you’re kind, you don’t need to be right. And it’s so much easier for others to be with you!”

To make sure due credit is given the full details of the author are:

Mark Brandenburg

Mark Brandenburg MA, CPCC
mark@eqnow.org
www.markbrandenburg.com
www.eqnow.org
Phone (+1) 651-766-9976
“Helping Men Succeed”
My personal view is we should be teaching adults this as well. If you know any single, childless women with the qualities Mark Brandenburg lists – then please hook me up with them!

51 Responses to “Educating young people about the qualities of a successful marriage.”

  1. John says:

    It is easy, just do not married a kiwi woman.

  2. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Dave

    ‘If you know any single, childless women with the qualities Mark Brandenburg lists — then please hook me up with them!’….

    Oh a serious note Dave, I do a lot of fine decent and wonderful woman with those strong Femininity qualities that you seek,and so do I…The only problem is for you,but not for me as in 27 months I will be living there permanently …They live in Thailand…

    Now I will really ‘Stir the Pot’ here, and I am been deadly serious on my opinion ……Forget it…. As in trying to find that type of Woman here in New Zealand..They have totally disappeared forever…..Come on, Karen and Katy say your piece…..I will gladly debate with you!!!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchide

  3. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to John

    Bang…!!!!…Right on the Money…Come on Karen, please post and say ‘John’ is Negative too…….Hmmmmmmmm…..???

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  4. paul says:

    how can a government pay and give the rights to our children to the women who destroyed the marraige in the first place,How can these women call themselves good mothers when they are out sleeping around when the father is looking after the kids or at work,how can they be that self centered.I hope that my sons find good women to marry and have long and healthy marraiges because i belive it would make new zealand a better place to live,I have such little hope for some of these children now…. ps i still love my mum

  5. Scott B says:

    Because they can.

  6. Whafe says:

    it is often said that most things are cyclic, I struggle to really se how we can get back to the old days lets call them, where by marriages were far more successful than they are in this day and age….

    The people of today dont want to do any hard graft etc etc, all instant gratification…

    Scott B sums it up best though “Because they can”

  7. Scott B says:

    The whole thing is pointless when we have laws and family courts who allow women (and a few men) to act in totally unmoralistic ways.

  8. Phoenix says:

    So what are these people suggesting? We sit children down and tell them how to be nice to each other? And somehow expect them to learn about successful relationships that way. Anyone with kids knows that children do what they see…..NOT what they are told, taught etc.

  9. Scott B says:

    I put this down to airy fairy rubbish. Sorry but I do. I put this in the same camp of thought as you should have chosen your partner better!

  10. tren Christchurch says:

    There is out there something called the divorce industry, a hidden economic arm of the state, intent on maximizing profits for its share holders…

  11. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Tren

    …Yep,I have to concur with you Tren….Can you image the Family Lawyers on both parties as in trying do the very best to keep everything in perceptive, and keeping the costs down and putting Children needs and requirements first…

    Hmmmmmmm…..’Tongue in cheek’….Yep…I see a hurdled pigs flying across N.Z now…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  12. Skeptik says:

    John Dutchie,
    I’ve just returned from several months in Thailand where I got to meet many ex-pats.
    I’m not sure if your aware of this or not so ignore it if necessary.
    Under Thai law ex-pats can’t buy houses or vehicles, so even those married to Thai nationals must put those items in their spouses name. When the relationship dissolves due to divorce or death of the ex-pat EVERYTHING in the Thai nationals name goes to them. Now you may be very lucky and find a Thai woman who agrees to part ways without fleecing you. However the most recent edition of a monthly Chiang Mai ex-pat magazine (sorry it’s not online only in hard copy) focused on relationships between ex-pats and Thais. A survey was done of 143 relationship breakdowns between Thai women and ex-pat westerner men. In ALL 143 cases the Thai woman initiated divorce. The impression I get therefore is that getting together with a Thai woman is a huge gamble and it’s a case of yet more women being gold diggers.
    I’d like to hear your views on this.

  13. Skeptik says:

    Scott B and John Dutchie,
    Spot on brothers.
    All the relationship skills in the world won’t alter NZ law which is stacked in favor of women.

  14. Scott B says:

    ouch! No-where is safe!

  15. tren Christchurch says:

    I like that!

  16. Skeptik says:

    Pheonix,
    What I’m suggesting is that in western societies unilaterally instigated no-fault divorce in an environment comprised of feminism and misguided chivalry means marriage is dying out as a meaningful social construct.
    People there now have a very clear choice – fight to get rid of all three elements
    * no-fault divorce
    * feminism
    * chivalry
    or accept marriage as a meaningful social institution is on it’s way to the historic garbage bin.

    Personally I would have absolutely no problem with ditching all three, however I reckon there are enough fools around to keep all three going for the rest of my lifetime. Therefore I foresee marriage sinking into oblivion and concomitant social fracturing and massive social problems for western societies during my lifetime.

  17. Hans Laven says:

    yep, nicely put Skeptic

  18. julie says:

    …so even those married to Thai nationals must put those items in their spouses name.

    This came out a couple of years ago in New Zealand because the NZ Embassy was dealing with at least one case a week. One man travelled overseas to work and when he came back their house was sold, everything gone, and he couldn’t find the wife.

    I personally wouldn’t suggest my sons move to Thailand because I’ve watched a documentary where a young NZ man was murdered by a charming Thai girl and her boyfriend after he gave her thousands of dollars. The parents wanted for other parents to beware of Thai women.

    But in saying the above, there must be lots of Thai women that are good women.

  19. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Skeptik

    …Very interesting issues you have raised Skeptik..Some of the points you have raised I will have to definitely do some research on….

    I worked and lived in Thailand for two years as a Engineer in the early nineties after my marriage crashed and burnt to the ground ,and I fell in love with Thailand and the Thai people I made some very close Thai friend,which even today, I am still very close too and very humbled by there friendship , both as in Male and Female from all sectors of Thai society…

    Note, It takes a long time before a Thai national trusts and forms a real friendship with a foreigner in there own Country…Can I blame them.??..No…I can not………

    Also I work with three other Male Engineers at time, one from Australia,the other two from American all of them married highly intelligent, professional, awesome Thai Woman and started families…I still today, communicate with all of them,and from what I can tell,all of them are still very happily married and living a full and rewarding lives in Thailand

    In 1999,I return to Thailand for a holiday and to catch up with my Thai Friends,and my European friends who had married those Thai Ladies …again, I fell in love with Thailand

    Skeptik,what I do know from my Thai friends,they are a very proud,spiritual & humble race of people…And they are very proud of there culture and there history,they definitely don’t like foreign outsiders trying to meddle, or to interfere with there internal Thia politics .

    Many Thai nationals remember to clearly what America and France had done to Vietnam and to the Vietnamese people ..Fair call might I add….
    What both of these Governments,from France and America at the time had done to Vietnam,they should hang there heads in Shame

    What I have gleamed so far…Thai people are dead against Foreign Companies buying up there land…Companies etc…etc..I can understand why too..

    Hey,I will not mince my words here either… I am not exactly happy that foreign Companies can come to N.Z and virtually buy N.Z…Would I put a stop it.???..Damn straight I would…!!!!

    As you are well aware of Skeptik ,don’t you dare to even think about to criticize the ‘Thai Royal Family’ …You would be putting yourself into serious danger if you did…

    As for your comment on ‘Gold diggers’…Lets get real shall we…They exist in every society on this planet

    Kind regards to you Skeptik…John Dutchie

  20. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Whafe..

    ‘The people of today don’t want to do any hard graft etc etc, all instant gratification…’…Bang…!!!…Right on the Money … Whafe…

    But this ‘Instant Gratification’ is not only happening in N.Z… Its happening all over Western Society…And also starting in some Asia Countries too..Good call Whafe…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  21. Skeptik says:

    Hello John Dutchie,
    Further to my last posting –
    There is a workaround for the issues I highlighted about getting into a relationship with a Thai woman.
    Instead of buying a house, rent one. Is she kicks up a stink about it then that should be a clear red flag for you to recognize you’ve got a gold digger.
    As for vehicles they aren’t terribly expensive there as the climate means they don’t rust anywhere near as quickly as in NZ. Also because Thailand produces cars under license to Japanese firms cars are relatively inexpensive there.
    Sorry I didn’t add this previously and may have caused alarm/concern.

  22. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Skeptik

    No problem at all Skeptik…Yes rental accommodation is extremely reasonable over there, but what took me the longest time to adjust too…And ‘Trust me’…..Gee…. Starting to sounding a N.Z Politician aren’t I.????..L.O.L … ‘Tongue in Cheek’ and it wasn’t the Thai Ladies either…They were ‘Wow’…’Oh my God I am in Heaven’ was the the Thai climate as in there extreme humidity……
    I have said before on Menz….What I truly love about the Thai woman that I met and associated with in Thailand…. They stil have that wonderful,very strong ‘Femininity’ about them …

    Not this pathetic Kiwi Feminist attitude, of put me on a ‘Peddle stood,and be a ‘Yes Dear’…’No Dear’….’Anything you say Dear’ in other words you have to be a Feminized ‘Soft C@#’type of Man …If not…… I will scream ‘Abuser’ and play the part I am the poor and innocent ‘Victim’…for I know the ‘Law’ is on my Side,not yours, and I have just to,as a Kiwi Woman ‘point the finger at you’…And you as the Man are totally screwed by the ‘Feminism’ justice system

    After my experience working and living in Thailand I just want to set the record straight,if you think Thai Woman are submissive, and so called subservient to there Men Folk….Think again,its the Thai Woman who runs the House hold and usually with a Iron Fist, you do not want to piss a Thai Woman off..I seen that happen….My advice is….Run….!!!!!…Just my humble opinion, Thai Woman definitely do not have the ‘You owe me’ attitude that Kiwi Woman have….That my ‘Rant and Rave’ for today…L.O.L…..

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  23. I rest my case about my methods to “engage” and bring out the REAL issues…

    That is when Mary Poppins puts up her umbrella and departs, so do the real issues….

    Hence Mary is visiting briefly to post her traditionalist views on this topic.

    All the above contributers are right, no amount of skills and counselling is going to change people.

    …It is societal views/ways that must be changed back.

    In the olden days, it was considered a sin, and almost a crime to have sexual relations before marriage, for men or women. And if you had sinned, you certainly got married as before or as soon as the bump started to show.
    What has happened now, is that it is just news at all, if there is a baby on the way before marriage, or the marriage has fallen apart. Before there was an aire of shame, or it was just expected that whether the marriage was happy or not, you just went about the daily motions at least until the children grew up.
    People just accepted that if they had kids, then they must raise those kids through thick and thin, and that was that.

    It would have been scandalous to have an affair, and indeed you would have to leave the town or the country….

    It is BECAUSE it’s ok or even expected that the marriage will fail that the marriage fails. People are “groomed” to be selfish and want more and more, and if that conflicts with raising the children then so be it.
    It is the general societal attitude that is wrong.

    The attitude on this site alot of the time is racist, in that there is alot of blaming the “Kiwi” woman, and that is shallow nonsence. It is the societal attitude that relationship-break-ups are the norm, almost almost ESPECIALLY if children are involved.

    In fact alot of relationships do break up after the birth of the child… a little bit of strain, and wham-bam that’s it, it’s all over….

    Now how do we go back to the old days, of shaming people into keeping their committments to each other and their children? Well they say it takes about 30 years to change a Societal view, so the only other way to bring about change is to legislate.

    The simple new legislation will be:

    1.
    Sex before marriage is illegal.
    Anyone caught will be fined $1000, the first time, $2000 the next time, $4000 the third time, and $4000
    every time, there after. There will be no jail, just fines which can be paid or worked off in community service.

    There will be no CHILD TAX/Child Support etc , because the fines will go into a general fund
    The fines will fund anyone who has the misfortune to be raped, in the form of the DPB, or they will have the usual options, so as not to encourage the underground dangerous abortions of the olden days.

    Those that do offend then do become pregnant will be forced into a life sentence of marriage FOREVER.

    So those that do wait, and shop around so to speak, without the sex, will be hopefully make a very very good choice, and long engagement, courting periods will be encouraged by professional seminars/life-coaches/chuches or what is appropriate to their beliefs… and if they find they don’t like each other after 6 months, or 3 years, they move on, and begin another engagement period, until they find the right match. If after they are married they think they made the wrong choice, touch luck, and the hard work begins…. Courses and more courses.

    2.
    There will be no divorce. Once committed, that’s it. There will be enforced people-skill courses, self-help courses, cooking classes, mechanic classes, pottery classes, chinese language classes, sexology classes…. unlimited support and education, because all the funds currently wasted on Lawyers, Family court will be directed into this manner.

    If a married couple want to have separate bedrooms after their children, then so be it, but if they get caught having sex with anyone other than their spouse they will be fined. In cases where it is clear that the spouse is being vindictive and racking up fines to diminish the quality of life for the children and the other spouse, there will be public-displays, like in the olden olden days. They will have to put their head between one of those wooden frames on public display in the city square, and there will be a bucket of rotten tomatoes for the community to chuck at the adulterer. They will have the sign “adulterer” around their neck, and will be policed to ensure no actual big rocks are thrown for example by the husband or the wife…

    And they will do this for 3 hours for the 1st offence, if the family’s income was below a certain threshhold, and 6 hours the next time, and 12 hours the third time, and 12 hours each time there after on their work-day off. Male or female they will EITHER do their time or pay the fine.

    Violence, abuse of any sort will not be tolerated and fines, and public humiliations will be the same punishment, with jail and the death penalty for the more serious offences. Where possible, mobile jails will be place on the front lawn of the family home, with spouse-basher painted on the front, and a Probation officer will take the offender to and from the home daily, but the offender will be put back in the home jail. The kids will be able to talk to mummy or/and daddy through the windows and they can still watch their children playing with the dog or supervise homework etc.. The whole community will know but will come together as a community to radically change attittudes to treating the family-unit as first priority.

    Anyone that ends up remaining single may do so, but if they get caught having sex with anyone else other than themselves they will be fined, or publicly humiliated.

    When National does NOT get results with reducing DPB figures, and in general improving the economy, but in fact sees a rise in family break-down, due to increasing stresses on Families due to the generally worsening economy, and balooning debt, a referendum for this proposal will be floated.

    A Family-Unit is simply the soft place to fall, while focusing on the productivity of the Nation, and right now we are headed towards losing our land and democracy to China anyway, so these are good healthy measure to avoid worse dark bleak measures in less that a couple of decades, maybe even less than that.

    If you are interested in starting the Mary Poppins party (or whatever name you can think of) register your interest, and please feel free to post any more great ideas / new policies, for making NZ a truly wonderful prosperous, and PEACEFUL land.

    Another good spoonful of advice from Mary…..

  24. gwallan says:

    1. Sex before marriage is illegal.

    Um, no.

    Not you, not my employer, not the government has this jurisdiction over my being.

    What I OR any other autonomous individual choose to do in the privacy of our own homes is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

    You get your eyes and ears and nose OUT of my bedroom thankyou.

    There are names for those who like to peer into the bedrooms of others.

  25. Scott B says:

    Geez I would hate to meet you in person. Agression, racism, sexism etc is not the way to engage people.

  26. Scott B says:

    That was to Mary.

  27. There is nothing wrong with what people do in their bedrooms. The problem is the many many people don’t want to be responsible for the consequences, and hence they winge and winge and blame and blame and get angry and violent.

    In the olden days, if a person wanted to have sex, they began the courting ritual, and made sure that they knew everything there was to know about their life-potential partner.

    What I have proposed is what has been in place for thousands and thousands of years.

    What we have now is Sodom and Gomora, and you know what happened to them.

    This time round it will be CHINA, and that will be far worse.

    What I have proposed is what has been in place for thousands and thousands of years.

  28. Scott B says:

    Couldn’t agree more Gwallan. Also what about sex before civil unions? lol (@ mary)

  29. Thank you for engaging with me again and again and again.
    Be careful, I’ll think you’re trying to start the courting ritual.

  30. gwallan says:

    Mary please stay outside the bedroom window for the period of those rituals and vent your disgust at said rituals elsewhere.

  31. The Chinese Govt is in every one of their citizen’s bedroom’s RIGHT NOW,

    with the Google-censorship, and hacking into people’s websites, and putting travel bans on those who have been expressing their opinions whether in poetry, literature or otherwise, and OUR government is doing very short-term thinking in ever considering to allow the sale of masses of productive lands…

    Then we have our short-term thinking neighbour Australia supplying masses of Uranium TO CHINA, that only ends up as highly radioactive nuclear waste, with no where to store, or dispose of, and nuclear weapons…..
    …..and we are in big debt to China just like everyone else, and like everyone else we are selling off State-essential services, mineral and metal mining companies, and losing more and more productive land, and why?

    Because we have become distracted with our Sodom and Gamora freedoms, which we are going to lose ANYWAY…. Too much of a good thing has become a very very very bad thing. China will be in your bedroom sooner than you think….

    Life is about planning, moderation, long-term thinking, and passing new legislation.

  32. What I have proposed is what has been in place for thousands and thousands of years.

    I can not believe that Society is in reverse, and now thinks it is better to have the freedom of sex-without-consequences….. or perhaps it is just this site.

    What I have proposed is what has been in place for thousands and thousands of years.

    And see Mary always gets to the real issues and the truth in record time.

    Only 4-5 decades ago, what I have just proposed was the “informal norm”, and people were shamed if anyone tried to be different to the status quo of thousands of years.

  33. gwallan says:

    @Mrs Poppins…

    History is also littered with examples of despotic control over personal liberties. Those sorts of regimes, too, tended to have “colourful” endings.

  34. We are in different times now.

    There is a Global energy grab going on right now between Russia and China for the most Uranium, and every country right now is in debt except for the rising developing Dictatorships, or pretend-democracies (but really dictatorships).

    When Australia and NZ has ripped up all their lands to supply China with raw materials to further grow exponentially, then what will we export, if we have already simultaneously sold all our farms… and our debt had ballooned….

    …so we need to sort our trivial stupid Sodom and Gamora problems, and our general infrastucture which includes the “family unit” as the backbone of our country, and focus on holding on to our nation and our bedrooms.

    We are living in different times now, and we have no nuclear weapons to say “no” to our bedrooms being invaded in the next 2 decades. Or perhaps World Wars are fairytales, like the holocaust. But of course there was no World war 1 or 2 or holocaust… Wars just don’t happen or do they just happen?, or do Nations get distracted with trivia, like the break-down of the family, and decreasing productivity, while other nations put their people under the thumb, and then pounce….

  35. And right at this moment there is a power-vacuum in the Pacific. The Chines govt has built a new building for the MSG which supports the Dictatorship Regime in Fiji, and every day that goes by, the Chinese increase their presence in Fiji and in the Pacific. They did this with North Korea who threatened Japan with nuclear missiles, who then, turned to get someone/anyone to protect them, but the U.S was too distracted and broke, so they turned to China. And now Japan has sent the U.S military bases in Japan packing… and this is happening the world over, very very quickly. U.S CIA are very very concerned, and have been concerned for a very long time….

    …. but we are not, because we are distracted with the freedom of no-consequence-sex, panicking in general with our short-term thinking measures, and letting the conseqences move us away from thinking clearly and innovatively to turn our debt around… In the olden days, the productivity of the country was backed by the family-unit.

  36. SicKofNZ says:

    Mary Poppins : says:
    Sex before marriage is illegal.
    Anyone caught will be fined $1000, the first time, $2000 the next time, $4000 the third time, and $4000 every time, there after. There will be no jail, just fines which can be paid or worked off in community service.

    I would rather those choosing to engage in premarital sex be separated from the community that chooses to live otherwise. Maybe offenders could be sent to Slut Island where they can develop their own society with their own values. I don’t see it as my right to punish anyone who has different beliefs to me but I’d like to remain, and raise my children, separate from them. Either that or send me to Prude Island with others who share my viewpoint on the matter.

    There will be no CHILD TAX/Child Support etc , because the fines will go into a general fund
    The fines will fund anyone who has the misfortune to be raped, in the form of the DPB, or they will have the usual options, so as not to encourage the underground dangerous abortions of the olden days.

    This Law would encourage every slut to falsely accuse innocent men of rape to escape any responsibility. Men and babies could be put to death as a consequence (ooh! I meant fetuses).
    Incidentally, here is a very good documentary of where abortion is headed in the U.S. of A. Baby Parts: America’s Most Shocking Industry (jump to 40 minutes if you’re impatient but you’ll miss some good stuff.)

    Those that do offend then do become pregnant will be forced into a life sentence of marriage FOREVER.

    Now that would force irresponsible adults (both Male and Female) to think twice before innocent children suffered as a result.

    So those that do wait, and shop around so to speak, without the sex, will be hopefully make a very very good choice, and long engagement, courting periods will be encouraged by professional seminars/life-coaches/churches or what is appropriate to their beliefs… and if they find they don’t like each other after 6 months, or 3 years, they move on, and begin another engagement period, until they find the right match. If after they are married they think they made the wrong choice, touch luck, and the hard work begins…. Courses and more courses.

    I mostly agree with you however I think families are the best suited to administer this rather than political appointees. No employee cares more for a child’s future than Mum & Dad, Grandmas & Granddads!

    There will be no divorce. Once committed, that’s it.

    Even God allowed for divorce if one partner committed adultery. Otherwise I’d support it.

    They will have to put their head between one of those wooden frames on public display in the city square, and there will be a bucket of rotten tomatoes for the community to chuck at the adulterer. They will have the sign “adulterer” around their neck…..

    I would prefer that adulterers were separated from the society that chooses to live by better/different morals rather than humiliate and commit violence against alleged offenders.

    ….. with jail and the death penalty for the more serious offences.

    Men falsely accused of rape would inevitably be murdered by the State. Separating offenders from society is cheaper, less hassle and safer. I will never believe that I have the right to punish anyone for making bad decisions nor do I believe that my equals have the right to punish me FOR ANYTHING!

  37. gwallan says:

    We are in different times now.

    You notice this but propose thousands of year old prescriptions?

    There is a Global energy grab going on right now between Russia and China for the most Uranium, and every country right now is in debt except for the rising developing Dictatorships, or pretend-democracies (but really dictatorships).

    These “energy grabs” go on at all levels. Observe Australian federal and state governments at loggerheads all the time. Nor is it confined to governments.

    Look up “hydraulic despotism”.

    At this point I note you continue to throw more wood on the growing pile. Best if I wait until you run out of combustible fuel.

    I may have some of my own.

    More in my next chapter “What happens when Mary Poppins turns out to be The Wicked Witch of the West.”

  38. The point of the legislation is not just to punish. The point of the legislation is to bring back the olden day values in a FAST fashion. Initially, there would be hick-ups with enforcing, and there would be false accusations, but with the public humiliations, over a decade, attitudes would change. … there are always casualities in a war, but you look at the bigger picture: lose the battles and win the war.

    Take cigarette smoking. There was a time when it was even considered glamorous, but with media campaigns/added tax, attitudes changed. It’s the same deal. Over time it would just simply be the norm to wait and be sure, and just know that it is not an option to later say “I’m not happy now.” …

    The children are here now, and so you just make yourself happy. You take up golf, origami, whatever, or do something/anything to make yourself happy, but you and the spouse come what may, be responsible for ‘modelling’ to your children that the family-unit, the back-bone of the nation stays in tact forever.

  39. SicKofNZ says:

    The point of the legislation is not just to punish. The point of the legislation is to bring back the olden day values in a FAST fashion.

    I would view your legislation to be seriously flawed if just ONE innocent person (usually a man) lost his life as a consequence, regardless of the bigger picture. Changing society does not have to be regarded as a WAR where innocent people lose their lives. That is the methodology of the Femily Caught!
    Evicting offenders with rigorous testing for those who wish to rejoin New Prudesville allows everyone to keep their dignity and freedom to make their own choices rather than be dictated to by mere equals.

  40. @ SicKofNZ
    Baby Parts: America’s Most Shocking Industry.

    Anyone that watches this movie that SicKofNZ has recommended in his post above, will agree with the proposed legislation.

    To allow that type of thing to continue is a gross crime against humanity, and how else can you stop it, and why do governments allow it? They allow it for population control, and/or not wanting the state to have to take care of unwanted babies, plus obviously for fetus, and actual BABY-harvest to use its parts…..

    So how do you stop it? How do you stop mothers from killing your fetus, or having your fetus in the first place?

    You support the proposed legislation, because that is the only way, you can actually stop this. There is no other way. It worked in the olden days MOSTLY, but having ACTUAL legislation, will make it work more than not work.

  41. Well according to that nurse in your recommended link, babies/lives are being lost daily. 6 perfect lives killed with a stab to the back of the neck. She said the legs were kicking, the body was perfect, and the doctor was ensuring that the baby’s head didn’t slip out, or legally he couldn’t stab it in the neck, and suck out it’s brains, and I haven’t embellished one word.

    Too late, sickofnz, lack of legislation is allowing humans to be harvested/mudered.

    You fear of not wanting even 1 man to be falsely accused, is going to allow babies to experience being stabbed in the neck, and have their brains sucked out.

  42. You wouldn’t have the death penalty for rape. You would have jail and rehabilitation, and only if guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
    The only time you’d have the death penalty, would be in the case, of unremorseful murder, where the offender, is deemed by 7 Judges and their peers to be non-responsive to rehabilitiation… and even then a life sentence might still stand. The death penalty would be very rare…. like for a repeat serial wife or any human killer.

  43. SicKofNZ says:

    Yeah Mary it’s really quite sickening. They’re currently legally killing full term babies as long as their heads haven’t been pushed out of the birth canal. What they’re proposing is the legalised killing of babies up to 30 days of age for the sake of harvesting body parts and population control.
    Unfortunately men have absolutely NO say in whether an abortion takes place or not. Only women may make those decisions … and they do. That will no doubt extend to the legalised killing of a father’s newborn child up to 30 days of age regardless of his view.
    It is only a matter of time before it becomes acceptable to snuff out the lives of men as is proposed by some leading feminists. Incidentally, the woman’s movement was funded by David Rockefeller who is an unashamed eugenicist. I don’t believe the call from those feminists for reducing the male population is necessarily their own idea.
    The solution is in the hands of women. After all, it is women who have been convinced to view males as lower caste humans, much like fetuses.

    Your fear of not wanting even 1 man to be falsely accused, is going to allow babies to experience being stabbed in the neck, and have their brains sucked out.

    I’m not so concerned about 1 man being falsely accused as I am concerned about 1 man losing his life because of a false accusation. Only women allow these atrocities to occur to those innocent babies. It can not happen without a woman asking for it.
    For those who missed the documentary: Baby Parts: America’s Most Shocking Industry

  44. Unfortunately most of us humans will watch that movie, and see the doctor pushing the babies head in so that he had stab it in the neck, and then we will watch the same age baby being born, to be possibly raised to be the next Prime Minister, and then we will just go and make a cup of tea… or insult Mary.

  45. SicKofNZ says:

    I don’t know about bringing back the death penalty. It would be less costly to evict offenders to Slut Island where the citizens there could root the offender to death if they so chose.
    I think you’d get a better result if there was a fear of not being included in something great (fear of exclusion) rather than having a fear of punishment.
    I don’t believe any of us have the right to end another human life.

  46. @ sickofnz
    Now, you are not being fair: According to that nurse, the first woman was screaming when she saw the baby, and had realised what had been done. She was sceaming because the baby had a face and a perfect body, and looked like a baby as opposed to a ‘fetus’. It is the doctors that know everything and the government that knows everything, and the woman that is traumatised. And it had been her family that advised her to, because of the detected birth defects…

    But the next 6 deaths were elected for non-medical reasons… and the nurse believes if the women were being properly informed/not mislead their choices may have been different.
    But obviously the Govt. wants the baby-harvesting to continue, and hence are not informing, because we have become desperate to compete/make money anyway we can now…. Sodom and Gamora.

    If the legislation was in place to prevent/reduce this sort of trauma, it is obvious what people would vote for. Or do you think people are really that evil, and want to keep on doing what they are doing, knowing full well that there is a chance that it could result in a baby being stabbed in the neck.

    You can keep on saying it is the woman’s fault when conception takes place, but she is just not that clever. Conception is high-tech bio-chemistry.

    That movie said 25% of conceptions result in abortion in the U.S currently. Now that’s a high-hit-rate or a booming industry. … and they have perfected the art of keeping the body in tact for optimum harvest of parts.

  47. SicKofNZ says:

    @ Mary, I don’t dispute a single word you’ve typed. A man has absolutely no say whether his unborn child is killed or not. In fact many men are gutted when they discover that their child has been aborted without them ever being consulted or despite their opposition. The solution, in part, is in educating women to make better informed decisions. I’m not sure what else a man can do to influence this industry. Men have been deliberately sidelined in many aspects of family life.

  48. That’s right, we don’t have the right to end life, but some of us think that we do have the right, and so a clear deterrent message needs to be sent, that you don’t have the right. Some people are happy to cut off a persons nose, and stab them multiple times, and sit on national television, and get on-going attention in jail. That sends a very poor message to people that really hate their spouse, or anyone that hates anyone.

    Jail is no deterrent to a serious murderer. What advantage are you going to have once your spouse or whoever is dead? Life…. even if it is in jail.

    When a murder is vindictive, pre-meditated, death is appropriate. You have to lose the battle to win the war. Murder rates will go down, if one knows that the reward, and the satisfaction will be TOO costly.

    Sure, we all get angry, and think stuff it, jail is worth it, but is the lethal injection enough to make you count to 10? or walk out of the room especially if you have a few tertiary degrees and know the system well. I think so. And the majority will think so. You lose a few to save the most.

  49. @ sickofnz:
    You do know what to do. Support/design good legislation to bring a fast swing to the olden day attitudes, but this time round, even more pro children and the family-unit. Keep doing what you are doing, blogging, make a website, start a new Poltical party, get momentum going for a referendum … people got all heated up about smacking and not smacking… which pales in comparison to, stabbing or not stabbing the back of a babies neck to knowingly kill…. but you have to be pragmatic.

    When money is involved, you can’t flog an old horse. This horse has been over-flogged. You have to focus on the family-unit. People will just shut down/bury their head in the sand, if you bring up baby-neck-stabbing.

  50. SicKofNZ says:

    Murder rates will go down, if one knows that the reward, and the satisfaction will be TOO costly.

    The death penalty in America hasn’t appeared to have influenced the horrendous murder rates over there. It’s not a deterrent for many.
    The death penalty just makes murderers more desperate and dangerous, especially when they’re cornered.
    Send murderers to Slut Island where they’re out of sight and out of mind and where they don’t cost the citizens money to incarcerate them nor the concern over whether to murder them back or not.

  51. @sickofnz,
    You are right about the U.S, so I am going to go and make a cup of tea, and insulate my family as much as I can. Good night, and thanks for the link. I had no idea, about the blatant legalities. I have found out alot from this site, so Mary will visit from time to time… until she gets kicked off.

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