Protests + Men’s Rights in the Justice System
A protest for men’s rights expresses a ……. strong reaction to the way father’s are treated through feminist anti father policy and procedure in New Zealand’s government departments, family and criminal courts and Child, Youth and Family Services (CYFS), ……… and a reaction against misandry – ‘the hatred of men’.
Men’s Rights Protesters protest ……….. as a way of publicly and forcefully making their opinions heard in an attempt to influence public opinion and government’s treatment on the nation’s men of all ages and ……… to undertake direct action in an attempt to directly enact desired changes themselves.
Because many father’s are wanting to protest in their own areas, leading protesters are touring the country. If you want to get involved in any area and need a lift – ask, if you need a place to stay – ask. It’s a team effort and men and women are happy to open their homes to protesters, drive them around, feed them and so on. If you’ve never been part of a protest – you’re in for a treat. Not only is protesting a great way of standing up for yourself, it’s a great release.
Dates, Times and Places.
Tuesday 31st August 2010 – protesters will be arriving in Wellington, from anywhere around the country. If you’d like to participate don’t be shy – speak up.
Wednesday 1st, Thursday 2nd and Friday 3rd September 2010 – Protest outside Parliament. Theme is the “Opening of Ministry of Men’s Affairs”.
Saturday 4th September 2010 – 11am to 1pm – Father’s Piknik (Lolly scramble and games) on Parliament’s front lawn.
Sunday 5th September 2010 – HAPPY FATHERS DAY – Travel to Nelson across Cook Straight
Monday 6th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – CYFS in Nelson.
Tuesday 7th and 8th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – CYFS in Greymouth.
Thursday 9th September 2010 – Travel to Christchurch.
Friday 10th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm CYFS Christchurch Regional Office.
Sat 11th- Sun 12th September 2010 – Travel to Gore
Monday 13th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – CYFS in Gore.
Tuesday 14th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – Invercargill CYFS.
Wednesday 15th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – Gore CYFS (again).
Thursday 16th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – Dunedin CYFS.
Friday 17th September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – Ashburton CYFS.
Saturday 18th September 2010 – 20th September 2010 – Travel to Christchurch and Blenheim.
Tuesday 21st September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – CYFS in Blenheim.
Wednesday 22nd September 2010 – 11:00am to 2:00pm – Outside Taupo CYFS.
I am a bit out of the loop these days thanks to ‘gatekeeping’. Is this being organised by any genuine men’s or fathers’ group? If so, I hope it has a solids comms strategy and has intelligent and coherent speakers lined up.
Comment by Darryl Ward — Sun 22nd August 2010 @ 9:26 pm
I understand that Kerry Bevin and Dan Ryder are the main people organising the Wellington thing. Kerry Bevin has said that Jim Bailey’s role is limited to advertising it through his (spam) emailings, but Julie claims that he is more centrally involved. Bailey’s advertising of it suggests that by joining the protest one would be joining his so-called coalition, and this unfortunately has eroded my support.
Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 22nd August 2010 @ 10:49 pm
May anyone attend these rallies? I am from the US, but would be interested in visiting NZ and participating. I expect to have some annual leave during September. Might just as well do something productive while I have a chance.
Comment by Darryl X — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 12:26 am
Y’know, MRAs are awesome men because they stand up to something that can destroy them and yet they do it anyhow because it’s the right thing to do.
You all know how serious this is, you’ve all experienced feminism first hand, all you men have had the feminist system come down on you because you’re fathers.
We’ve (including me) all seen grown men break down, we all know someone or a few someone’s or many someone’s who have killed themselves over this, we all know parents can’t cope and we all know children can’t cope. For every story the media can find to promote feminism, we can find 50 that can’t.
And yet somehow you (because you stepped up) are a leader whether you like it or not. You (because you care) HAVE to take this seriously.
Jim isn’t any better or worse than any of us. Not really. He’s passionate, he’s real, he’s hurt, he’s standing up for what he believes in. He isn’t perfect, he isn’t an intellectual although he knows a lot and he is right in what he says just as you are. He’s definitely not popular with feminists or socialists but guess what, those same feminists and socialists don’t like us either. We aren’t any more accepted than he is.
………..
Darryl, you’ve written excellent essays or what ever they are for years against the system. You are leader in a church and that’s not a popular thing to be these days.
Hans, how many times has your career been on the line? How many times have you tried to educate a government department, a judge, a colleague, a lawyer?
Jim like all of us wants to do something proactive, he wants to make a difference. He’s a good guy, and most of you have said so.
He’s busy advertising the corruption from a global perspective and as an already believer, I’m blown away on how well he is presenting things and can imagine someone new will be blown away twice as much to stumble on his work. On another note, his work is getting politicians worried – he consistently and persistently gives the same message over and over again and just like I did when I came here and had to hear the message repeated over and over, people are going to want to do something about it.
Darryl, you don’t have to post where Jim does – it’s that simple. When you do, Jim attacks you and Dan loses readers. Just don’t get involved, it’s under control.
Hans, you have this site and it’s a biggie, very important and has important readers. Who cares what Jim does. He’s Kerry’s dear friend and it’s wrong that Kerry should have to tell you Jim’s not involved just to get your blessing and support.
As a note, I don’t have any right to lecture either of you and I am the last person worthy to throw stones. But I want you to understand how much power rests in your hands. You can either make this movement or you can break this movement. I hope you choose the first option. I want to ask you something, “Would you sacrafice yourself for the greater good? Would you do it for other men suffering and needing your leadership?”
Comment by julie — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 9:03 am
Darryl, this sounds absolutely awesome. You’d be more than welcome. I hope you can be as loud on a microphone as your words are here. We’d love to have you come visit and help.
Comment by julie — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 9:05 am
A shame we can’t organise something in Auckland. I am down for it anyone wants to join me. I don’t care what their politics are.
Personally I think internal politics is what hampers and holds back many good movements. A classic examaple would be the factionalism displayed by left wing groups in this country. They are always having spilts over personalities. So long as the we divide, they will rule.
I have no issues with anyone so long as they adhere to the basic principle that fathers get a bum rap in this country’s family caught system. There should be room for everyone’s opinion.
We have all seen in past actions stemming from the success of the 1981 Spingbok Tour what pressure groups can achieve if they just focus on the one basic principle. In 1981 it was stop the Springbok Tour and that movement was riddled with more factionalism and personal agenda’s than the men’s movement in this country will probably ever have. It consisted of peaceful quakers, ordinary mums and dads, and radical anarchists.
Gerry
ps: We need more humour on this site. I think Darryl’s avatar shows a lot of healthy humour and more of what this site needs in terms of stating our message without getting into people’s faces. Mine (for those who are interested) is the gang patch of the fictional Black Rebels Motorcycle Club from the 1953 Marlon Brando movie “The Wild One”. When asked what he is rebelling against, Brando replies “whattya got?”
Let’s not take ourselves too seriously.
Comment by Gerry — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 9:53 am
What happens when you cross a pig with a family court judge?
Nothing. There are some things a pig just won’t do.
Comment by Max — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 10:15 am
Why did the feminist bury her husband six meters underground?
Because she thought that deep down he was a really nice guy!!!
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 2:22 pm
Sorry if I’m being a party pooper. I just read something from today’s StuffNZ website which makes demanding a ministry of men’s affairs seem utterly farcical.
Here it is in it’s entirety below.
Your thoughts?
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 2:47 pm
For what it’s worth here are some further thoughts that have crossed my mind.
Wellington is a huge power base for feminists.
All those nice cushy socialist feminist positions that got created under Helen Clarkski’s reign of terror have not been axed not will be by September.
So unless I’m very mistaken, I can’t for the life of me imagine NZ feminists are going to take this lying down. They may very well be plotting their revenge right now!
So if I was outside parliament pulling the stunt of role-playing a Ministry of Men’s Affairs I might just be facing a very stiff and very vocal counter protest from feminists who will no doubt be outraged at the call for a Men’s ministry (even as a tongue firmly in cheek humorously enacted ‘front straw man’ issue satire with the real agenda being to press for the dissolution of the ministry of women’s affairs.
These feminists take themselves waaaaaay too seriously AND depend on continuing their misandric ways for a living!
I guess those who are determined to embark on the protest at parliament may very well have figured this out already, but in case they haven’t they may want to have hardhats at the ready and ‘outgun’ any counter protest with VERY loud PA system/s.
They might also reasonably expect feminist counter protesters to follow them throughout their whole campaign city by city.
I’s also insist upon a hefty police presence at all times to quell any ensuing violence that may erupt and issue strict instructions to protesters to use only forceful yet polite language. You can as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow that feminist media will jump at the chance to capture video of anything that seems even remotely misogynistic and blow it up poster size in the media.
There’s also the post-protest stage to consider.
Assuming that the protest gets reported widely in the media, once it goes through the feminist lace curtain it could end up being misrepresented as a bunch of misogynous freaks gooning around at the taxpayers expense (cops, media, any traffic congestion etc)
I learnt quite allot about public protesting recently as I watched and took video of the Red Shirts pro-democracy movement for a week protesting in Bangkok, Thailand.
I cannot be there in person as I’m overseas but if I can help with further ideas feel free to ask.
Good luck.
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 3:26 pm
would def like to be a part of the protest julie. Any times for the wellington days ??
Comment by lloyd — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 3:55 pm
Hi Lloyd,
I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying. What is def?
Comment by julie — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 9:59 pm
Neat words Gerry, there are protests in Auckland from time to time. Is there a preferred area?
Comment by julie — Mon 23rd August 2010 @ 10:48 pm
Oh, I got this! Def means definitely. That’s excellent. How can I help? Can I pass your details on?
Comment by julie — Tue 24th August 2010 @ 7:35 pm
@ Julie – Thank you for the compliments, but I feel it is taking things a bit far to say my writings are “against the system”. I prefer to say they are “in support of social justice”.
I will not be partaking in this protest action for three main reasons.
1/ I am no longer involved with politics in any shape or form.
2/ My main interest in men’s issues is fostering pastoral care, and I do not wish to be distracted from this.
2/ I have no desire whatsoever to become involved with anything organised by a person who has chronically attempted to defame others and me because he can’t accept responsibility for his own behaviour.
Kind regards
Darryl
Comment by Darryl Ward — Wed 25th August 2010 @ 10:57 pm
Gosh, what part of a leader whether you like it or not don’t you get?
Who cares if you don’t personally attend a protest. You must understand that every new member depends on your approval. The best leaders serve!!!!
Please, sugar on top, on my knees, and pretty please …..don’t rubbish good, decent, men’s work because they don’t choose between leading MRAs.
Comment by julie — Wed 25th August 2010 @ 11:33 pm
Dear Julie
1/ I am not a “leader” in the movement and have no interest in being one.
2/ I do not take kindly to being patronised.
3/ I will not “… rubbish good, decent, men’s work”. However, I will not suffer fools either.
For (hopefully) the last time, I am not interested in participating.
Kind regards
Darryl
Comment by Darryl Ward — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 6:55 am
Darryl,
This is more or less what I attempted to convey in last nights email. Problems seem to arise when others start critisising. It amazes me the factions of expertise we have, your self in Pastoral care.
CYF is an obvious area of conflict. CYFSTALK (www.cyfstalk.org) has been beavering away for many years using its own flavour Results are appearing. We will continue to use the name & shame principal, though not without good evidence. I like to think that we have developed a higher credibility.
For my money, I will focus on the “hidden” groups. There we empower people disadvantaged by the system.
Comment by Alastair — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 8:48 am
Thank you Alastair
I am not trying to rubbish anyone’s efforts or discourage anyone from participating in any particular activity, but I do not like feeling pressured to endorse something from which I have clearly distanced myself. Forgiving someone who has harmed you does oblige one to become involved with that person’s activities.
Kind regards
Darryl
Comment by Darryl Ward — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 9:28 am
Darryl,
Would be very interested in how your approaching Pastoral care of men in your Anglican Community.
Regards
SCrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 10:23 am
Scrap,
My approach is outlined in the following paper: In the name of the father: Pastoral care for excluded fathers.
I would be happy to discuss over coffee in Wellington either at lunchtime or after work one day.
Kind regards
Darryl
Comment by Darryl Ward — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 10:47 am
CORRECTION: Forgiving someone who has harmed you does NOT oblige one to become involved with that person’s activities.
Comment by Darryl Ward — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 10:49 am
Darryl, I hear you loud and clear – You’re not participating.
Comment by julie — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 11:40 am
Hopefully hidden groups can come out of hiding when they speak-up so someone hears them, lol.
I agree Paul’s news is good for fathers who want to discuss their court cases. I’m glad it’s hidden when giving support and I’m glad it exists because there’s somewhere to refer fathers.
In Auckland there’s also Father and Child and Nth Shore men’s centre. From what I’m seeing, things are happening and it’s just a matter of everyone keeping up the good work.
I’d like to see men’s sites reflect the work happening on the ground but that’s not going to happen. From what I hear feminists on the ground think feminist websites go way too overboard. You can either try and build in a real world or a virtual world. Both are just as good as each other but very different.
Off line is face to face, voice to voice while online is words to words. Words are special, they can do amazing things. In fact, we can all do amazing things – if we put our minds to it.
Comment by julie — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 12:01 pm
This is true. But when fresh blood comes along and they want to do something about not only their own situation but for others, they find a group of men already in existence (that’s the leadership part).
The group already in existence … well, it’s different than one would expect from an established group of men.
I’m confused myself these days and I’m pleased I’m going away for the weekend. Maybe next week I’ll have a different view and be in a better frame of mind – the last 2 weeks have been challenging for me.
Comment by julie — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 1:34 pm
If they can achieve something positive, good on them.
Comment by Darryl Ward — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 2:08 pm
Darryl, good on you.
They are achieving lots and lots and lots. 2011 is going to be a bigger year than 2010 and this year has been really big.
There should be a positive way to get the information out, to show what’s happening, to get fathers involved and so on. I get asked to write about things, get the word out but I don’t have a good relationship with any online MRA and whatever I write gets negative comments from those who have been involved longer than me. Sure Scrap and Murray and Alistair are easy to get along with but that’s because they are into finding solutions, solving problems and implementing them. They are a few among many other offline men working on the ground.
Maybe the best thing is to solve the issues between men and women and have support for women and support for men quietly offline and if men and women want to know what’s going on or want to help, they can approach councils and ask them what men’s groups exist.
I have doors opening for me, I had an offer from a guy today who wants to bring all us single parent groups around the country together in person and he’s paying for it.
I said I was going to stop as soon as Dan Ryder’s case was over which it is. (loose ends don’t take long to tie up).
He’s got his date sorted to get out and just help with CYFS accountability and I’m sure new people will find like minded men and women if they look hard enough.
Comment by julie — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 7:08 pm
Julie, you say “They are achieving lots and lots and lots.”
May I ask what they are achieving?
Kind regards
Darryl
Comment by Darryl Ward — Thu 26th August 2010 @ 11:03 pm
Not me Darryl, MRAs – men. I don’t know why you are asking me and I’m not sure what the best way to answer is.
You would be aware of the work Allan Harvey and Union of Fathers do – and you know other men’s groups are having the same success, thus achievements. Different groups are doing different things but they’re all achieving if they’re working at doing so.
Dan Ryder and his colleagues are no different. They have made remarkable progress on the shore and there’s more to come. I’d say everyone who is putting the work in is getting a payoff.
My group has set up a committee for men’s issues and has neat fathers running it. They haven’t set their goals because men’s groups are in the process of making those decisions together in Auckland. By the end of September, they’ll be off and running so to speak.
If I was to express the accomplishments of the online movement, I’d say over the past 4 years they have made a large community of men. I think they are at the stage feminists were back in the 80’s with the movement ‘girls can do anything’. They write well and discuss things and challenge feminists sites and make comments on their sites, feminist sites, media sites etc.
Overall, I think the men’s movement is well on it’s way to making a better future for men and I’m pleased because I don’t think I can handle anymore of the discussions on women, lol.
Comment by julie — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 12:12 am
Hi Julie.
I was asking you because it was you that said it.
To me, “achieving” means making positive changes to the perecptions of men and fathers in the minds of both decision makers and the general public.
It does NOT mean shouting through loud hailers oustide people’s houses.
It does NOT mean alienating the very people whose sympathies we should be courting.
It does NOT mean spending 99% of one’s energy on vilifying others in the movement because of resentments from the past.
A lot of damage is being done and will take a long time for it to heal.
Kind regards
Darryl
Comment by Darryl Ward — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 7:16 am
Oh yay……………not
Julies found someone else to debate with on and on and on and on without saying anything clogging up the thread.
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
is it even meaningful to the thread topic?
Is it just me?, because if it is I will apologise immediatley and withdraw my comment, but does anyone else find these pointless little bunfights in the guise of intelligent debate to be a distraction from what MENZ is s’posed to be?
– promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience –
Sorry Julie but c’mon does it achieve anything?
Mits
Comment by mits — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 7:32 am
No Mits, it doesn’t achieve anything. Yet as you say, that’s for me. There’s many writers out there that achieve. 🙂
Comment by julie — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 8:29 am
HI Darryl,
Thanks for that.
Will be in touch.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSa — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 9:10 am
mits, no need to apologise, because it’s not just you.
Comment by rc — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 9:23 am
I agree with you both mits and rc.
No, it isn’t just you guys.
I have had the same experience repeatedly for a long time now.
I’ve only persisted because I thought it would be useful and important to help a woman be up to speed with MENS issues from a MALE perspective.
Now I’m having second thoughts and thinking maybe it’s just best to work around the clogged up threads that get full of as you say pointless little bun-fights in the guise of intelligent debate.
The thing is that there are very necessary debates to have about the direction and strategy the Men’s Rights Movement needs to take, especially as it now appears to be moving more to the political phase with much man to man consciousness raising having been done.
Therefore it’s just a pity that there’s often a bottleneck of stuff which Hans has rightly in my opinion called unintelligible and off topic. I’d add that allot of what she writes is merely unreferenced opinion. Admittedly most of what I and other men often write could rightly be called the same; the difference however is that it’s MALE opinion contributing to a site specifically created for
As I’ve said before on another thread that doesn’t mean:
promoting a clearer understanding of Julies opinions and agenda for men!
I can’t always circumvent Julies comment though as someone has to challenge views that are contentious and can put the Men’s Rights Movement in a bad light.My experience is that this is often a long drawn out process too especially when certain trenchant views get aired, then challenged, then denied as having been aired in the first place; when personal insults get posted and off topic views get introduced.
The whole process is gets very tedious, but unfortunately I’ve engaged and what follows can and often has degenerated into a pointless bunfight which is distracting from the business of MENZ.
I’d like to avoid this in future as I’m sure it’s off putting for many new visitors to the MENZ site to read and then i fear potential allies get lost.
It’s also tedious for me to keep spelling out certain facts and views
FROM A MALE PERSPECTIVE until she either blows her lid and later ends up apologizing or quietens down but harbors resentments which subsequently surface later in threads.
That’s a shame, but on the other hand I’m afraid to not engage means the MENZ website gets even more dominated than it already is by a woman pushing her own opinions and agenda for men.
I’ve offered to take the debates with Julie off MENZ threads and engage via facebook or e-mail. But I’ve had second thoughts on that as I don’t wish to have such spaces clogged up with comments that are often unintelligible off topic and cutting.
It’s a tricky one.
Comment by Skeptik — Fri 27th August 2010 @ 1:39 pm
UPDATE.
Daniel Ryder and Kerry Bevin are leaving Auckland in about an hour to start this tour.
The 2 Jim Bs won’t be attending due to health reasons but Jim Bailey will keep readers updated here and Jim Bagnall will keep doing what he does best as the number 1 MRA in NZ. Another father was going but due to serious depression in his own case his welfare is being put as priority especially as word is, “Expect arrests”.
I won’t be updating this tour but I’m getting newspaper journalists along so those who don’t come to menz sites can learn what’s going on. This time I’m also going to try my hand at TV news reporters. 🙂
Anyways, if anyone wants to help spread the word or turn up at an event themselves, your input will be appreciated.
Daniel will also try to update his facebook page when he gets the chance.
Comment by julie — Tue 31st August 2010 @ 11:40 am
Julie, : I feel you may have confused Darryl X with our own Darryl W.
Comment by Alastair — Tue 31st August 2010 @ 4:23 pm
No Alistair I haven’t.
I don’t want to bring activism or men’s rights on to this site because I’ve finally clicked it’s a site about men’s experiences. I do feel stupid to be here as long as I have but I don’t regret the learning. 🙂
Anyways, don’t change Alistair. Just keep your eye on helping others and help will come to you IMO. It’s already happening, lol.
Comment by julie — Tue 31st August 2010 @ 6:12 pm
Julie, we all admire Jim Bagnall, but he has NOT been elected “number 1 MRA in NZ”, and nor has anybody else for that matter. You are probably embarrassing him.
Comment by Darryl Ward — Wed 1st September 2010 @ 2:14 pm
Thanks Daryll,
I agree with every word you’re saying here.
I see the agenda pushing continues.
Now we get even get told who our #1 MRA in NZ is!
Sheesh! Thanks for asking us!
Incidentally ny vote for the number 1 MRA ‘in’ NZ is this guy.
Comment by Skeptik — Wed 1st September 2010 @ 2:47 pm
Darryl, I reckon you must be a busy man between your church work, being a dad (your children are lovely), husband and study. Do you have much of a social life?
I haven’t even read what your hobbies are on your facebook page but I should.
Oh, don’t worry about Jim, he just lives and breathes men’s issues.
Comment by julie — Wed 1st September 2010 @ 5:15 pm
Loud-hailer for Loan. My stuffing is all drained, but if anyone needs a loud hailer to promote the interest of children and the family as a whole in nz, feel free to use it.
Ownership stays with me, just in case someone uses for some cause unrelated to families and children in a way that includes fathers.
Borrower can hold it so long as they are advocating actively for families and children.
Sadly I find myself too poor in time and money to be active anymore myself.
Comment by Alan Radford — Thu 2nd September 2010 @ 1:07 pm
Thanks Alan, and thanks for saying so.
Comment by julie — Thu 2nd September 2010 @ 1:26 pm