Review of the organizations out there that men may use and the type of servive they provide.
This topic is likely to cause some of you to vent… if you need to, do it within the rules of the site and, perhaps in a constructive way…
I like to read submissions here and try to understand the viewpoints from each and everyone.
I have seen Allan make various claims about the Union of Fathers. I think this is the correct place to do that.
He suggests he is there to help fathers when in fact he has stated on other thread and on others that UoF ‘is a parents group who focus on what is best for children’.
So; in essence, UoF is a children’s support group, not a fathers support group. He uses the word ‘parent’ instead of father which I find troubling myself since the organization is called Union of Fathers!
I think we need to be clear that Allan is offering a service that is useful to certain people because of the way the system works. His organisation is not there to challenge the system but to work within in it.
Allan; this is a discussion so please enlighten us.
Also; any other organizations that provide a service to men, please let us know what is available.
I have used the services of the single parent trust and can say that I have had a couple of sessions at the ASB showgrounds with show tickets from the trust. Hats off to you Julie as that’s a great de-stressor 
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We must work within a system to change it.
In the family court the most important person is the child.
Those who decry this laudible goal are doomed to failure.
I’m glad that you have created another thread noconfidence. Thankyou.
I also think it’s worth reiterating that working for an organisation such as union of fathers in the manner Alan does (He’s gone public stating he’s not bothered whether men who get sent to him for supervised access to their children deserve to be supervised or have simply been sent there having been stitched up and shafted by feminist organisations, and he pockets taxpayer money in the process) DOES contribute significantly to the spreading of anti-male attitudes in society at large – including Air NZs blatantly anti-male seating policy whereby despite solid research showing that women far more often abuse children, it’s men who aren’t allowed to sit next to unaccompanied children. Anyone who doesn’t get the connection is naive or perhaps even downright maliciously corrupted in my view. (I know it may be frustrating for some readers to see this spelt out yet again, but I restate these matters for the uninitiated).
As to Ken’s point of view – that we MUST work within a dysfunctional system to change it from the inside.
It ain’t necessarily so my friend.
Been there done that, got the bloodstained T-shirt as proof.
For such a venture whilst often noble in intent is oftentimes fraught with difficulty. A better option is can be to set up an alternative, better organisation.
I believe history is on my side in this debate as it’s littered with the corpses (literally!) of those who tried to change say, Nazzism, Stalinism, Pol Pott’s regime from the inside.
Good luck to those who try and choose your battles wisely I say.
As for recommending uof as you can probably tell my response to anyone enquiring in that direction will henceforth be a resounding NO! until such time as it becomes father friendly instead of contributing to further fatherlessness in NZ.
Indeed I fully expect after Alan’s shocking admission regarding supervising fathers that they’ll get put on a watchlist.
Yahoo to that!
i didn’t know Allan skied
Awww shucks. Thanks.
With all due respect, I think the topic is worthy of discussion if it is about the way charity groups work. I can enlighten about the women’s refuges and the way they work today as well as shed some light on other groups.
But if it is just a dig at Allan then I think the thread is unproductive.
I’m not sure exactly sure what you mean by the term ‘Charity groups’ Julie. I know many such groups in NZ who call them self charity groups or alternatively not for profit organizations. The fact is they get taxpayers money which they recieve a salary directly from so the staff do profit. Is that what you mean?
Or are you talking strictly about those organizations which don’t get such funding but instead rely on their own personal resources to dispense charity?
I think the distinction is a very important one because oftentimes (as with NZ women’s refuge movement) by being funded by the taxpayer the organization becomes just another arm of governmental (covert) policy.
I mean ‘not for profit organisations’.
I hope you know what you are doing here Skeptic. Once you castrate Allan on a men’s site, I hope you have other men to replace these guys who have given so much for the cause.
The point of the thread is to help men understand what support groups are out there and what they do. Allan has put on record that he does work for men which is relevant, though there is differing opinions as to the usefulness of that. I think everyone needs to understand what each organisation focusses on, what it can do and what it can’t do.
I’ve used the single parent trust as an example. IMO (for what that’s worth) the small piece of help that I’ve got from you trust has been very helpful to me in my situation but I don’t know what other things the trust can do, so perhaps you could advise us, as there never is a one size fits all solution.
Allan’s support would appear to help those fathers who have done wrong and are trying to make amends which is great. I think the backlash over his comments is probably over the way is has generalised men as a whole, which, upon reflection may be something he may would like to comment on.
PLEASE beware of many in the so called Fathers Rights Movement in Christchurch, because they work for the dirty low life pus laden feminist calab that directs our court system. The corruption amongst so called father helpers is the lowest of the low ( thanks for the backstabbing Don R and Robert).These yellowback filth will face judgement, you scum of the earth, meanwhile you continue increasing the male suicide rates. These peoiple must be exposed and publically hung.
and you are exposing by…
Sorry; I don’t see any names so whoever they are remain anonymous. If you have a comment then please keep it constructive and explain what these organizations are and what, in your opinion, they do/don’t do. It would, however, be also good to hear from these organizations. Information is power!
I believe that one either supports misandry, or one opposes misandry. There is no middle ground. That is often just called income. You are who you associate with.
The DV/Femily Caught system doesn’t need tweaking. It needs abolishing. It has been built on the weakest of foundations. More Men and Women need to push it over from the outside rather than continue to support it from the inside.
The best support for MEN is FAMILY. Government policy deliberately weakens FAMILY.
CAUTION:Those who believe in the evolution faith may not wish to read further:
Ephesians 6:11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness…
To Sickofnz
RE: Bible quote
you have taken this comletely out of context and it has nothing at all to do with anything on this site. Read John 17;14 there mate. That should put things into context for you.
No thanks, I’m not interested in debating anyone else’s interpretation of the scriptures of which there are infinite. My quote has everything to do with my opinion and that’s all that matters when I give my opinion. Feel free to offer your own opinion, quoting whatever you think is relevant. I have no interest in such debates. Thanks for the offer anyway.
The following is all that matters to me when quoting any scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness….
The best support for MEN is FAMILY. Government policy deliberately weakens FAMILY.
…..Hmmmmmmmm……Beg to differ with you ‘SicKofNZ’, just my humble opinion…. The best support for the Family unit is both in ‘Man’ and ‘Woman’…..
Kind regards John Dutchie
I guess my interpretation of FAMILY includes both Men and Women so I can’t disagree with you.
Reply to Julie
‘I hope you know what you are doing here Skeptic. Once you castrate Allan on a men’s site, I hope you have other men to replace these guys who have given so much for the cause.’
….Fair call,and well said Julie…I concur with you..
There is nothing wrong in having a difference of an opinion and having a healthy debate…Even it does get a bit ‘heated’ sometimes…
But putting someone down and trying get someone ‘Castrated’ for having a different view point is so ‘Wrong’…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Castrating someone. That’s a hoot!
I point out some aweful flaws in Alan’s logic and it’s downstream effects (feeding the feminist academic/political system and further fatherlessness)and some of you seemingly imagine me with a butcher’s knife in hand! Done so much for the cause indeed!
If anything the guy castrated himself the moment he admitted online that he doesn’t care whether the fathers who get sent to him for supervised access actually deserve to be supervised or whether they’ve been stitched up by corrupt feminists and thier chivalrous consorts. Nice little money earner for him too.
I’ve called him mercenary for that and see nothing wrong for doing so. You call it a put down. I call it calling someone to account. I notice both of you aren’t actually arguing the issue but for what ever reason but rallying to his defense.
Too bad, but take a deep breath folks and get real. There are allot of nascent activists out there who WON’T be lining thier pockets with gold gained by shafting Dad’s and thier kids ‘in the best interests of the children’.
One guy who I feel certain has done an immense amount for the cause of Men’s Rights has to be Stuart Birkes. I notice his homepage hasn’t been updated in some years, yet still refer to his site for useful information, articles, network links etc. The guy has been a powerhouse of advocacy. He’s my kind of guy – doesn’t pull punches and tells it how it is but does so with erudite thoughtfulness from what I can see. For those who are new to the name check out his website here.
Skeptic, there are many comments asking Allan this and that lately and comments just straight out calling him an enemy to fathers. There also seems to be another Allan that he is being held accountable for.
From what I see Allan was answering but the answers were not good enough for some. So sad, too bad.
IMO, he was replying from a position where he is part of a men’s group that not only works with fathers but supervises access AND works with other charity groups in the community AND the family court.
……..
I was supervised for years for whole days by 2 butchy lesbians up until the day I gained custody. I hated it of course and it doesn’t give you the chance to have much of an intimate time with your children.
But I have to say they were wonderful to me. Never once did they make a statement in anyway about my case unless I brought it up and they sympathised with me when I did. Not once did they dictate to me and not once did they show any sign of being supervisors. When ever I wanted to go somewhere or have a special date they worked their full time jobs around me. They even brought my son from Taupo to Auckland when CYFS said they wouldn’t pay for it. They did it in their spare time and paid for the petrol themselves.
……….
There is a lot of work being done by supervisors. They are complaining as a collective and they are asking for a time frame unlike my case that was to go on for life if I had not gained custody. My case was simply social workers being bitches. I got angry with them which even the child’s lawyer stated was acceptable for their nasty action and in their defence to win they stated, “If you get angry at us, then how will you treat your children. You have an anger issue.”
No court hearing, no anger management group, just punishment for standing up to them.
……..
I hope Allan continues to supervise fathers and mothers (if their service is for both) because they deserve understanding people and I hope he can help change the system so that they are only being supervised for a short term.
If by chance the parents are in a court case pleading not guilty thus having to pay around $60 per visit, I hope he is in a position of credibility to write a letter to the courts on the parent’s behalf.
I also hope he is sensible enough to tell when a parent isn’t well enough for unsupervised access and I hope his peers can be understanding enough to acknowledge this happens.
BTW, I agree Stuart Birks says many wonderful political things. But I don’t see the need to compare him to Allan. One is a political speaker who is paid more than Allan who is a ground person working in a charity group.
@Skeptik @martin @dad$justice @SickofNZ. Fighting feminism shouldn’t not equate to breeding misandry. I have been following your blogs and posts… Instead of throwing your cyber weight around making judgment after judgment criticizing others who are at least making an effort to really making a change, why not create the change you want to see? What have any of you done except complain, point fingers, attack and the entire female gender and burden the rest of us observers with your tired, redundant and seriously biased rant.
Expressing your hatred for this, that the other is really making people sick to even follow what is said… it is like you guys are a waste of freakin’ cyber space.
Noconfidence has kindly tried to keep it on topic to spread awareness of services… and people have come here to learn more and share this information with many women trying to help their men find positive help and all you guys have done is beat about the bush using this site to vent your personal tantrums with the worst grammar and punctuation skills that even my son could not help highlighting them (yeah it does irritate some people!).
What kind of examples are you for people like my son?…
Because of Allan’s hard work and unbiased approach, many more young and old women (victims especially) are steering clear of feminism and maintaining a clear head to support men’s rights. There are many women preparing to lobby for men’s rights and just because it does not come to your door step as information does not mean it is not happening. Unfortunately, many of them come to this site only to be showered by your lousy comments and useless contribution mirroring memories of how they got there in the first place and killing the momentum people like Allan build.
You want clear evidence of Allan’s hard work without being paid?
Today a man was spared sentencing in criminal court (for some seriously warped offenses) because of the help of Allan from the Union of Fathers. With his help and counseling we were able to work on an outcome that spared this man. Allan has worked on this for quite some time now without even seeing one red cent.
If it were not for Allan, many people would literally be lost.
AND SKEPTIK, IT IS A SHAME THAT IS HAS NOT OCCURED TO YOU THAT ALLAN DOES NOT BOTHER WITH THE FACT THAT SOME MEN SENT TO HIM DESERVE IT OR NOT SIMPLY BECAUSE HE HELPS ALL MEN ALIKE AND STAYS NEUTRAL, REGARDLESS OF THEIR CRIME. IT IS NOT HIS PLACE TO JUDGE. HE IS THERE TO HELP. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT HIM TO DO…? HELP SOME BETTER BECAUSE HE BELIEVES THAT THEIR INNOCENT AND OTHERS LESS BASED ON THEIR CRIME… SINCE WHEN DOES IT MAKE IT RIGHT FOR SOME MEN TO GET MORE HELP MORE THAN OTHERS. HOW IS THAT HELPING MEN’S RIGHTS. AND WHILE ON THIS POINT WHAT THE H_LL HAVE YOU EVER DONE TO HELP MEN’S RIGHTS OTHER THAN BORE THE CRAP OUT OF US WITH YOUR SUPPOSED SKEPTISISM? ALL I SEE IS SOME WEIRDO ON SOME BLOODY HIGH HORSE SHI_ING OUT COMMENTS WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT OF THE REPERCUSSIONS… OR EFFECTS ON OTHERS
You can use some education… and some foresight… and just a personal note… I think you have said enough about Allan… shift and make room for some constructive observations from others. If you have personal issues with Allan take it to him… I am sure he welcomes it.
Don’t bother with a counter-post… there is no time to waste on negativity.
Hi onewomanDV,
I don’t know if you realise this or not but… this comment above is a nasty attack. I wouldn’t expect anyone to take it on board in a positive way and expect it to be seen as misandry. Misandry is hatred of men and the comment is clearly showing misandry in it’s vent.
If you came across women online making spelling mistakes, would you write this to them? I don’t think so. Equality is treating both genders equally and men are no more brick walls than women are.
I liked some of it though. It was easy for me to take on board the good points because it was not attacking me. If there is a backlash, I hope it passes quickly and you are strong enough to take it. I like to hear the positive information you have given.
whoa heavy issues, me thinks onewomanDV has a few control issues,
wound herself up there at the end.
The most telling is the, dont bother…….. line
seems to be used to having the last word and words and words and words etc
you go girl vent that spleen, but consider this, Isnt name calling and insults, ummmmm well isnt that called domestic violence and abuse in some circles?
Heavy heavy issues
I challenge you to find ONE bad word that I’ve said about Allan you nasty uncontrolled hag. And for your information I’ve done plenty to help confront misandry and will continue to do so. If you had really followed my posts here as you have attested to then you would have noticed that evidence. You are clearly full of sh!t. WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE? Please don’t criticize anyone here for their spelling or grammatical errors, especially if your standards are less than perfect and they are. Many people post items here without the luxury of an edit facility. BIG DEAL!
How dare you pretend to speak for everyone! You come across as another BIG MOUTHED no-it-all….TYPICAL!
This statement includes an assumption of guilt against all fathers in these supervised situations.
Please reframe.
Gwallan,
You’ve entirely missed the point that supervising fathers access regardless of thier guilt or not feeds DIRECTLY into feminists hands. They simply gathers the statistics on numbers of men supervised then use those to garner yet more privelige with.
Please reframe.
@Skeptik…
Of course I “get the point”.
You and I have just said exactly the same thing.
In her rant onewomanDV is saying that all fathers in those programs must be guilty.
You know what you Skeptics, sick of NZ’s Martim Swash’s, John Duchies, mits, etc. you are well on the way to achieving?
You simply drive away those that can help! People that DO. Think about it when this group becomes something people avoid.
When that happens will that change the Family court? Probably not. You become “Disgruntled fathers”
I’m not a disgruntled father and never will be. I WON custody of my children in the Femily Caught. I WON! I help others who ask for my help. I offer to help those that don’t ask. I have opinions that don’t translate to brown-nosing. I also DO. Open your eyes to see evidence of that. Criticize all you want. I’m not stifled easily.
Keenskier,
The NZ Men’s movement is well overdue a cleanout.
(We wouldn’t be here if it’s leadership had been effective over the last 30 ODD years!)
To my mind that means some will get driven out, others will get with the REAL state of men’s affairs in NZ instead of peddling feminist BS. At the same time other men and supportive women will come through the ranks so to speak.
I agree with Skeptic that the process to have discrimination eradicated is taking far too long for my liking. I would prefer to have every man starve the Government of funds and productivity until Men’s interests are fairly represented too. I would prefer to see the corrupt DV/Femily Caught system abolished and replaced with a system that is fair to all of the citizens of this country (Men, Women & Children). It currently isn’t.
I would not expect those who are chipping away at the obvious discrimination to ‘do it my way cos it’s the only way’. I also don’t expect to be muzzled unless I follow the methodology of others who have a different view to mine to achieve those same goals.
I appreciate the efforts of those who are doing things differently to me although still working towards true equality for all. Mutual respect shouldn’t be a luxury.
Thanks sickofNZ,
We’re entirely on the same page on this issue.
I admire men like you and Jim Bailey who brooke no quarter when it comes to feminists and those who feed thier misandry.
OnewomanDV,
If you bother to read back over my posts you’ll see I HAVE acknowledged that Alan from uof does SOME good work. That doesn’t get him off the hook with me for failing to be bothered whether men who get sent to him for supervision actually deserve to be there. The fact remains statistics for numbers of men who are forced to go to supervised access are gleefully collected and used by feminists as ‘evidence’ of NZ men’s ‘badness’. The fact also remains that such statistical chicanery then gets pushed by certain women’s groups and academics to get more and more services to ‘protect women and children’ and demonise men in the process. All of that results
in the oppressive misandry NZ is.
You urge me to set up alternative services which are men-feindly (at least that’s how I read it, correct that if it’s wrong by all means).
Well, I’ve no interest in returning to NZ to yet again undergo death by a thousand feminist-chivalrous cuts.
No thanks.
These days I’m glad to report I’m offshore safely far away from the multiheaded hydra you can call femiNZm. Google the term ‘men going Thier Own Way’ or MGTOW for short for more background on that.
Besides which, I’ve done my time in the trenches there as you’ll see if you can be bothered to read further. As far as I’m concerned I’ve done my bit in the front line and leave it to those with more energy to continue there whilst I act as an online ‘mirror’ and commentator on events in a country I’m intimately familiar with, still quite in love with, yet sadly ashamed of and aversive to for it’s systemic violence against men.
Yes, sometimes my spelling and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired, that’s because I have big fingers, like John Dutchie I guess, I’m getting used to using a small notebook which I like for it’s portability and because I often write in a hurry with a sense of urgency to deal with what I frankly see as reams of nonsense quite often on this site.
Still you’re the first to complain about that.
Others aren’t so nitpicking and pedantic presumably following the meaning and forgiving the occasional crappy grammar.
You ask what I’ve ever done for men.
Well, let’s see now…..20 years pastoral care work in NZ as a social worker, trainer facilitator, prison psychotherapist, counselor and group facilitator. I could include other support roles I’ve held for men, but I guess you’ll get the point
(once you’ve calmed down).
During those years I’ve worked with thousands of NZ men of all ethnicities who are disabled, homeless, alcoholic, violent, recovering from stroke, dealing with cancer, smashed by divorce, berieved, mentally ill, new fathers etc. Alot of this I didn’t get paid a bean for either as it was done in my own time using my own resources.
During ALL of that time I was working in a hostile anti-male environment. I’ve also lost count of the time I’ve spent on this site sharing insight and experience with others to help them avoid the many pitfalls of being a man in modern day NZ and giving readers a bigger picture based upon my extensive experience of NZ.
Enough said?
Julie, Thanks for the supportive comments on this issue.
Also cudos to you, as these days you appear to be able to disagree with me online without going off the deep end like OnewomanDV has.
You make a valid points about misandry and spelling.
I agree with mits here too – definitely some control issues and anger problem there with onewomanDV.
To all of you, Alan included.
I hope Alan at uof continues to do the good work he does, but will continue with the challenge regarding his recieving payment for supervising fathers. It sends a shitty message to kids, and to society at large really.
To my mind the better course of action is to more forcefully challenge the staus quo where it’s commonplace for men to end up having to undergo the humiliation of supervision on fabricated or no evidence.
A country without due process of law is a totalitarian one, however benign it may be in certain other ways to it’s citizentry.
Anyhow, I see I have used up many words now and want to return to the topic of the thread so that noconfidence doesn’t have to start yet another thread!
Hmmm. This is tricky. If I thank you for the cudos, I also admit to going off the deep end. Uh, oh…. Ah!, what the heck, why not, it’s true. Thanks for the kudos and …..
Cudos back to you for still giving to the cause.
That’s one thing I really like about you Julie. You’re big enough to admit transgressions and smart enough to move beyond them.
Yes, it’s been a bloody long haul for me hanging in the Men’s Rights Movement all these years. Thanks for recognizing that.
‘Anyhow, I see I have used up many words now and want to return to the topic of the thread so that noconfidence doesn’t have to start yet another thread!’…
Lol ! I like it.
I read the items you’ve posted so I am aware that you are an avid contributor.
I am a little surprised that we haven’t had many postings for fathers groups/organizations on this thread. Does that mean there aren’t that many or that they are scared of getting ripped apart… I hope it’s not the latter.
Maybe I’ll have to start one myself. Anyone for a picnic ?
LOL. You’ll see some of the members of men’s groups now and then dare. They don’t get treated well.
Reply to ‘OnewomanDV,’
……..Thank you so much for the work you have done OnewomanDV…I do appreciate it…If I could give you a Hug, I would……
And please, to all the rest of the Ladies…..e.g like Julie….. who voice there opinion on Menz ….I truly thank you…
And I am sure there are other Woman who frequently read on what has been posted on Menz…Well, I would cordially like to invite those Ladies to express your point of view on Menz..
Let me say this to all concerned on here ,and I want to make this very plain and clear …to all…I love and honor Womanhood and Motherhood…But ‘Extreme Socail Engineering Feminism’…I hold that in utter contempt….!!!!
Kind regards to you OnewomanDv…John Dutchie
Not quite the right place for it but this is in the news over the Tasman just this weekend…
Dad launches criminal charges against ex-wife
An excellent story thanks gwallan. My own case mirrors Bill’s case almost exactly, except my ex-wife actually did poison me and also attempted to kill our children and I won custody. Bill’s case and that of many, many others is a poor indictment of the uselessness of current law here and in Oz.
Hi folks
I am part of the UOF group here in Napier. Generally we see our role as helping guys progress their relationship with their kids.
We have had considerable success in recent years helping guys self represent, and moving their cases through quickly to a situation where they are fully involved with their kids lives. Or more importantly their kids now have a full life with both parents.
Protection order to shared care in 8 weeks.
Protection order to full custody in 12 weeks.
Over the last three years I have noticed a definite change from the judges. Most of the cases I am involved with the judges now see shared care as being very reasonable and what should happen.
If you want more contact with your children you do need to use the court.
If you want to change the system do not use the family court to try to do that.
Yes our laws need changing, yes there have been great injustices, but when I am sitting with a guy in court he needs to be focussed on getting more time with his kids not on changing the court or laws.
Hi Ken and thanks for explaining the role of the UOF. My children and I certainly would have benefited from your services during my FC case. I had no support apart from the solicitor I paid.
Things must have improved somewhat since I felt forced in to the FC to protect my children’s futures. It took me 2 1/2yrs to achieve full custody of my children. That was almost 8 years ago and with the ex-wife holding a fraudulent Protection Order and using every delusional fairy-tale imaginable to prevent my children having access with me. If I had to face the prospect of doing it all again, I just wouldn’t! 12 weeks seems much better than 128 weeks though. Zero weeks waiting would be the ideal disruption time between the father/child relationship in my view. I can dream can’t I?
Again, thanks for enlightening us.
cheers
Wayne
Ken,
maybe you should read the post 11 from Gwallam, about the man sueing his ex for perjury, HE WAS DOING IT BECAUSE OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE FAMILY COURT SYSTEM.
Kowtowing to such injustice WILL NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING, only individuals fighting will make change, your philosophy is to go along with it all, THIS IS WRONG. There is a terrible injustice that not many men know about
I completely disagree with your comment ‘Martins’. IMO there is a place for ALL of these organizations.
Your kind of saying that every man should be at the front line of the war when in fact some of needed for support purposes. Ken has explained what UoF provides and personally I think that is commendable, especially when there appears to be an element within this group who appear to want to rubbish the work of others if it doesn’t fit their own ideology.
Change MAY come, but in the mean time, who will support men if UoF isn’t there ?
Hmmmnnn…
Father and Child Trust works on several levels, always trying to concentrate
on improving the relationship between fathers and children…
Bottom of the cliff – so to speak, personal support for all fathering issues,
providing a positive forum for fathers who have lost partners, just have issues,
or who are feeling like the usual agencies are unable to meet their needs, incl,
from frustrated dads needing a better lawyer or the confidence to self represent,
we also get dads who have drifted away for peace and want to resume contact…
With Agencies – eg, Plunket, Barnardos, etc to assist them with including fathers,
attending ante-natal classes to make sure guys get a fair idea what is being said,
eg. re PND issues and how much use a father can actually be to a child (!!!)
along with research and help for teen dads and other specific support projects,
and often we use other groups like Man Alive and Changeworks who deliver services…
plus at quasi – govt dept levels – helping the powers that be to see both sides…
publishing articles and working with influential types to deliver a bigger picture.
It is tricky doing all these things, especially as some of our work is funded,
so we have to be very careful not to upset authorities,
we may occasionally upset dads, but we try,
it is only possible to do your best,
nobody claims to be perfect!
Appreciate that info Brendon.
I’m especially interested in what you mentioned about PND as I had to look after my child for the 1st 3 months of his life because my ex-wife rejected him due to PND.
Wow,
After Alan’s aweful admission that working for uof as a supervisor of supervised access he doesn’t care whether he’s supervising father’s because they’ve been stitched up and sent to him DUE TO FALSE ALLEGATIONS of false allegations or not this bombardment of info on uof strikes me as being three things: -
1. SOME very useful information for men.
2. Glossing over Alan’s conduct and DOESN’T tell us if it’s commonplace practice with others working in that organisation.
A VERY interesting question!!!
3. DAMAGE CONTROL!!!
Reply to Skeptik
…Tongue in Cheek ….Concerning Alan of the Union of Fathers working as supervisor for Fathers who need to be supervised with there own Children due to false allegations….Maybe Allan should say to the distraught and the anguish Father……’Be happy for you have truly liberated and freed by N.Z Style of social engineering Feminism’….Yeah Right….!!!!!
Kind regards John Dutchie
Would you sooner have Allan as supervisor or some hairy legged butch, man hating lesbian. The choice is yours? Why pull down someone attempting to DO something!
Actually Keen Skier your question strikes me as irrelevant.
To me it seems patently obvious that in either case damage is being done to fathers and thier kids (and by extension everyone).
I’ll reiterate the steps of the process AGAIN as you seem to have missed the point….
1. Alan @ uof gets fathers to supervise. He cynically collects a fee for doing so without being bothered whether those fathers actually need supervision or whether they’ve been stitched up with false allegations…….
2. Feminist scholars in academia and elsewhere tally up the number of fathers who are forced to undergo supervision of thier access to thier kids. Those same ‘scholars’ or others then use the statistics to demonise men in general and fathers in particular……
3. The statistics then get used as ‘evidence’ to back up social policy which reflects such demonising with even draconian measures levelled against men in general. The state also grants women YET MORE largesse whilst YET MORE FATHERLESSNESS IS CREATED (Jim Bailey who does a massive amount of unpaid work at the coalface with fathers in NZ sites the figure of 400,000 fatherless NZ kids (no father residing in the home). Whilst I can’t verify that figure, I doubt he’s far wrong, if at all.
It is an elephant in the room huge NZ social problem.
4. Return to step 1 and continuation of the cycle of systemic abuse of men ——>>>>>
Now I’m rock solid confident my analysis is correct.
It appears that some aren’t in denial and agree with me, but express these ideas in blunter terms.
Then they get canned for doing so.
Even so to deny thier message whilst focussing on the words and not the message is simply pc obfuscating.
To dismiss them as ideologues and imply that thier too provocative and inciting violent backlash is a leap in logic too far and tantamount to defamation.
Smearing them in such a manner is low, underhand and senseless. It’s also deeply ironic in a country which accepts the word ‘bugger’ in TV advertisements!
To me it simply underscores the desperation to put the cat back in the bag.
But it’s much too late for that.
I ask reasonable questions and still get no answers, indeed Alan has scuttled for cover and hasn’t commented on this site since I called him to account for his anti-father and anti-child behaviour. Instead I notice a raft of uof sympathisers posting what read to me like party political braodcasts whilst avoiding very relevant questions.
Yes indeed, worrisome questions still remain –
How widespread within Union of Fathers is Alan’s admitted blithe indifference to the circumstances in which fathers are assigned to him for supervised access to thier kids?
Is it in fact a policy of Union of Fathers to simply take fathers for supervised access and pocket the fee for doing so without regard for the fathers innocence or guilt of some sort leading to them being forced to attend supervision or NOT see thier own kids?
Furthermore if it isn’t Union of Father’s policy then is Alan working unilaterally outside the policy guidelines of his own organisation interpretting the rules for engagement with fathers in his own ideosyncratic way?
What position does Union of Fathers hold about the NZ family court’s refusal to give due process to fathers? (Decisions made behind closed doors, no public access to the courts, no records kept of court proceedings and MASSIVE amount of anecdotal evidence sited by fathers of anti-father bias therein)
I’m sure I’m not the only one who awaits with interest answers to these pertinent questions. Further obfuscation will only lead to a deepening suspicion that things aren’t only terribly wrong but there is even more being hidden from view.
Time is overdue to come clean, be FULLY open and accountable. If some heads get knocked together and Union of Fathers looses some revenue stream so be it.
FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CHILDREN.
Reply to ‘Skeptik’ post
….Bang…!!!And I concur on ‘Skeptik’ statement…Again if my bluntness and forthrightness will get me into trouble…Again…But so be it…
My alarm bells ring big time …When Allan from the union of Fathers states on the Menz web site… ‘He has been liberated by Feminism’….
Well sorry to say this,but what I have seen of Extreme Social Engineering Feminism for the last 25 years in N.Z as been nothing but a massive social engineering Stuff up….And,again I will say it loud and clear…..For the last 25 years ‘Manhood’ and ‘Fatherhood’ have been ‘Demonized’ here in N.Z by Extreme social engineering Feminism !!!!…Oh, so I express an ‘forthright opinion’,thus I am ‘Provocative’….Toughs@#t….!!!
I will always speak my mind, and if need be, I am ‘Damn to hell’ …..for saying this….So be it, I will ever, never become ‘Submissive’ or ‘Subservience’ to Extreme Social Engineering Feminism…..!!
Lets not confused my statement concerning ‘Equal Rights’ for both Genders in all sectors of N.Z society as in Employment,Justice,Education…Etc…I all for it….
Kind regards John Dutchie
Skeptic,
I think you are confusing the 2 Jim B’s. (both worked together at protesting outside judges homes).
It is Jim Bagnall who works with fathers. He is part of North Shore men’s group and has a group for children of parental alienation. He also works tirelessly with fathers in the family court. He does a lot more than that though. He’s the greatest IMO.
Jim Bailey has the site Hands on equal parenting. He keeps up with great information in NZ regarding the family courts and other social agencies. He also has great information on what other men around the world are doing as protesters. I think he himself is a very good protester.
John Dutchie,
I hope you don’t mind me asking. Are you new to men’s sites? If not, do you have any favourites?
To answer your question Keen Skier as to wether I’d prefer Allan or a hairy legged lesbian to supervise me with my children, The answer is neither.
What I’m trying to get across here is that I feel that “supervision” can be the problem.
I dont know Allan personally and to be honest I dont think anyone I associate could be described as a “hairy legged, man hating lesbian. But that could be open to interpretation so I will leave it to you to decide.
What I do know is that there are a lot of reasons that “supervision” gets ordered and not all of them are in the child or parents (predominantly Fathers) best interest.
As I have stated previously I was originally offered access to my own children under “supervision” and I politely but firmly refused. And with in a week the need for “supervision” had been superceded by the needs of the mother to have some free time and I was allowed “unsupervised” time with my children.
For myself what I have learnt in the eleven years that I have been caught up in this god awful system is that there are a lot of people who want to be involved with me and my family, usually for monetary gain, usually only within office hours, mostly uninvited and predominantly working a different agenda to what they are saying out loud.
Some I believe do have the best intentions, and as Ive said before I applaud Allan on His achievements and wish him all the best in future endeavours within this meat grinder of an Industry.
But I will take no part in a group that would endorse unnessasary “supervision” as the best method to move forward and liken it to being in a zoo.
MITS
Julie,
Thanks for clarification about the 2 different JBs.
I had indeed got them confused.
Sorry about that.
Skeptic,
My pleasure.
No need to be. Anyhoo, it was a beautiful day in Auckland NZ. The weather is just wonderful lately. I think I might write a new thread.
Julie,
If I may ask Is Jim Baily in good health? After a few bursts of abuse he has gone amazingly quiet.
Keen,
I haven’t been in contact with Jim Bailey for a while so I can’t say. I have been in contact with Jim Bagnall though and he hasn’t mentioned Jim’s health in any negative way.
I missed that.
Reply to Keen Skier
……L.M.A.O…..Dude, haven’t you got a sense of humor…?????
And a ‘Tongue in cheek’ comment back at you Good Sir….
Hmmmmmmm….Actually coming to think of it,personally I honestly don’t know which would be worse case…. A Man hating Lesbian….or a Feminism Man….
Also my reply to you Good Sir, on as for to ‘Do something’ I have …I been voicing my concern for the last 25 years,and getting hammered by verbal abuse,and even been a few times physical assaulted by extreme Feminists for even dare mentioning of the damage that as been done to the ‘Family’ unit,in a Country I truly love, by this Feminism Socail Engineering Feminism crap….Yes and you heard me the word I choose to use…..’Socail Engineering Feminism Crap’….!!!!
Kind regards to you Good Sir John Dutchie
Thank you for that Julie. I have passed that on to others that are concerned. I was likewise a little worried when a recent piece of his spam refered to Boshier as a murderer!
Thanks on behalf of several people Julie. Things don’t look good for Jim. Maybe to many of us ignored him in his time of need. I certainly did. Get well quickly Jim we still love you!
And why were you assailed? Have you considered your own provocative attitude?
Who ever said I agreed with Auntie Helen’s anti family thinking? The use of extreem language is guarenteed to create antagonism. Have you ever tried agreeing with a person and attempting to understand their perspective?
Who said I was male? Assumptions are normally based on our particular prejudice. Again a perfect recipe for conflict.
I had to read his comment a few times before I realised that there there must’ve been an emphasis on the word YOU. I think it changed my understanding somewhat.
haven’t YOU got a sense of humor
…although I could be mistaken. I’m not commenting on the rest though :p
Oh Dear…Here We go again someone as his Knickers in a knot….L.O.L…
…..’Provocative’…A interesting word to use Keen Skier
1/ Firstly, did I say ever say ‘you’ supported Auntie Helen ………No…I did not…
Oh,and far I am concerned,and it is just my humble opinion…. Helen Clark is a true social Engineering ‘Butch’ Feminist with the rest of her Social Engineering Feminist cohorts …Do you find that statement ‘provocative’..Keen skier..Tough…!!!
2/ ‘Extreme’ Language ..Pardon, So I am blunt and straight to the point,and I speak my mind …Gee, I didn’t know that was ‘Extreme’ and ‘So what’.????..Get a Life and deal with it….
3/Keen Skier,but I still open doors for Ladies even when a few times I have been a called ‘Sexist Pig’ for been chivalrous….and I have been slapped for doing it too…Gee, Keen Skier I didn’t know as in been be a Gentleman…T
Oh great Keen Skier, a bit of victim blaming, suggesting that someone’s “provocative attitude” was responsible for another’s violent assault. You may as well blame a woman for getting raped because she dressed attractively.
Whoops,hit the wrong key again….!!!
Damn them big fingers …..!!!…L.O.L…
To finish off…..I didn’t know,as in trying to be Gentleman was a recipe for conflict …..
Kind regards to you Good Sir John Dutchie
Reply to Julie…And hopefully this time I don’t hit the wrong Key
Julie,first off,please don’t ever say ‘I hope you don’t mind me asking’….Ask me any question and I will give you straight up reply,it might be ‘blunt’ and it also might be not ‘Political correct’ as well…
Also just to inform every one I do suffer an condition called ‘Dyslectic’….Can be so frustrating sometimes…L.O.L
I am new to Menz site,but I have read some posts on here for approximately for a year as for your question as in so called ‘favorites’ I haven’t any…..
Kind regards to you….John Dutchie
Reply to John Dutchie,
Thanks for the answer. It is nice to have you here.
Only MENZ? There at least 3 other sites all maintaining a a much higher level of courtesy and debate. Their members actually listen.
Keen Skier, can you tell us the names of those other sites, with much more courteous members etc?
I think you are aware Hans, I am aware of your contribution to one and that you are a moderator on another.