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Sun 20th May 2012

Change of Dates To Kill The Family Court

Filed under: General — Ministry of Men's Affairs @ 11:07 am

Due to unforseen circumstances the dates for the protests outside Family Courts will change. The new dates are as follows, and each protest will be held betwwen 11am and 2pm. Please diary one or more dates, put on your woollies and join us to remind the government that major rebirth is required to turn family law into a positive contribution to the welfare of NZ society!

Auckland: Friday June 22

Tauranga: Friday July 6

Hamilton: Friday July 20

Napier: Friday August 3

Rotorua: Friday August 17

Wellington: Friday August 31 (including an event for Fathers Day that weekend)

(I have amended the original post to provide the new dates too)

26 Responses to “Change of Dates To Kill The Family Court”

  1. realkiwi says:

    Please use another word – kill will not bring my support…

  2. Ford says:

    31..what would you prefer..
    annihilate..assassinate…execute..massacre..murder..slaughter..slay..??..obliterate ??

  3. Ford says:

    #1 not 31

  4. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to realkiwi..Here’s my definition

    You been to generous, Ford after my ex brother law,two of my best friends and my own personal experience of there so called fair ‘unbiased gender base’ system …

    I personally would prefer to use the term of ‘Total annihilation of the Kiwi feminist control family court system that purposely rips Fathers to shreds …And purposely destroy Fathers ‘

    Kind regards ….John Dutchie…Free at long last

  5. Down Under says:

    @realkiwi. We wouldn’t expect a real kiwi to support the family court when they are ones who do the real killing. Lost our veracity have we.

  6. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to all

    My Asian lady partner found this ….Just a bit of light hearten humor for all to enjoy…Tongue in cheek….That doesn’t of course include them beloved humorless Kiwi feminists for they will undoubtedly find this so ‘Sexist’

    A HUMOROUS STORY FOR MEN

    After a quarrel with his wife, a travelling salesman decided he needed some fresh air, so he went for a walk along the nearby beach. He saw a small bottle in front of him and he idly kicked it so that it went bouncing around on the pebbles. Suddenly a genie popped out of it and bowed in front of him.

    The man just stood there in amazement as the genie spoke: “Thank you master for releasing me from my prison. I’ve lived in that bottle for many years. To express my gratitude I’ll grant you any wish you care to make.”

    The man didn’t know what to wish for and then he had a bright idea. “Well,” he said, “I’m a salesman and I have to spend a lot of money flying over to America to get sales. Could you build me a bridge across to America so that I can drive over in my car?”

    The genie looked surprised. “A bridge all the way to America?” he queried. “That’s a real tough job even for me with my great powers. Could you think of something a bit easier?”

    The salesman thought for a moment and replied,”Well, OK. I had a quarrel with my wife this morning and I don’t really know why. Could you tell me how a woman’s mind works?”

    The genie replied,”How many lanes do you want on this bridge, and do you want lighting on it?”

    Kind regards ….John Dutchie…Free at long last

  7. roo says:

    may I suggest “remove the family court” The word Kill very get no support and shouldn’t. We are caring fathers not militia.

  8. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear roo, when the number of men driven to suicide exceeds 4000 scattered through 30 years of thievery, then maybe a militia is what is needed?

    But, when people kill others, through financial greed and unprofessional callousness and carelessness, with arrogance as the icing on top……

    Then, I suggest that killing is letting off too lightly.

    If they were under my control, it would be death by a hundred thousand cuts…

    Lots of love, lubrication and kisses, MurrayBacon – axe murderer.

  9. Roo says:

    Dear Mr Bacon. I have read your posts for sometime on this site now and have found you an intelligent and interesting contributor.
    Even though I struggle with myself more and more each day not to add myself the the figure of those that take their own life, even in my depressed state I realise that the word kill is not going to get anyone anywhere with the general public, or the people that can make change in the family court.

    We all understand very clearly the people benefiting from the family court and their attitude and really don’t need a constant reminder. We live it every day. And have done for a long long time.
    How do we change the system? I don’t know. By protest? Not with the word kill we won’t.

    Most Kiwis will never understand the family court or the goings on in it and don’t believe it even if you tell them. They will never understand until they are embroiled in it and then its to late. Like me.

    I would protest but I am gravely concerned that if I was seen I would yet again be targeted by the female Lawyer for child and female lawyer for my ex who of course is funded by the state. My case is still before the courts and I have no idea how my children are.

    But will things change? Not for me I don’t think. Hope is a fading star Mr Bacon, and one of the few things some of us have for information/hope/options is some of the posts we view on this site.
    Please be considerate with your responses Mr Bacon some of us are not doing so well.

  10. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Anthea Smith, if I appear to support the word “kill”, you may be assured that I have made comments similar to your own, in private, to challenge the person who chose the word kill.

    However, I do like to push ideas in all directions and see whether there is any type of fit. Unfortunately, in this instance, there is quite a lot of fit for the use of the word “kill”.

    I have earlier suggested that father’s suicides is a serious problem in NZ:
    http://archive.org/details/SubmissionRegardingNzDomesticViolenceAct
    (When I wrote that submission, I suspected from the similarity in the dynamics that mother’s suicides might also be a significant social problem, in somewhat smaller numbers than fathers. Since then, I have become aware of completed examples and now know this to be too true.)

    I might joke, from all perspectives, but my weight goes behind protection of children and protection of parents: http://archive.org/details/SubmissionToReviewOfNzFamilyCourt

    I am not sure if you are a legal worker, but even if so I can assure you that there is hope in family relationships, as long as you are careful not to be your own worst enemy.

    If you wanted to discuss these issues in person, then I am only a telephone call away. Sometimes I don’t bite. If I joke, it is only in an attempt to not take these issues too seriously, as to do damage. In the same way, I do not intend to damage others by levity. I would prefer to slip between ribs, like a stiletto blade and insert pain deep enough to encourage others to sit up and move to action, before anyone commits to action where they don’t exist tomorrow.

    I have played for keeps and been lucky enough to enjoy the morrow. To give up is to be defeated by your own decision. Even sunlight has more strength than that.
    Cheers, MurrayBacon – still murdering.

  11. Ford says:

    #10..some peoples choice of wording is condoned by some on this site and others are not..i would be correct in saying that wouldnt I murray bacon..

    signed by Ford
    Gun Polisher

  12. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Ford, Yes yes, you are right on the button. Maybe it is to do with body language? If your paranoia is getting away on you, would you like to swap some of your spare yellow tablets, for some of my spare blue ones?

    So what? Does it really matter?
    Here are a few spare apostrophes for you ”””””’.

    I like your bouncing back from hard times. It seems you are a good example for some of the self-defeated on this website.

    Cheers, MurrayBacon – axe murderer with special deals for legal workers and people killing themselves with apathy…..

  13. Ford says:

    #12..you must be good if you can see peoples body language on a computer and you seem to need all the pills you can get..i like giving shit to fucken hypocrites

  14. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Ford, I try not to be a hypocrite, so I take your comment hard…. Cheers, Murray.

  15. Ford says:

    good..hope it hurts

  16. Hans Laven says:

    The full title of the planned protests is “Kill the Family Court: It Kills Families”.

    The title was devised by Kerry Bevin who is also the instigator. Its meaning is simply that the Family Court and its empowering legislation needs so much change that the current system will be dead and gone. That degree of change and rebirth is necessary for our family law to become fair, gender balanced and good for children and their families whether the parents are together or apart.

    It may be that ceremonial ‘killing’ is done during the protests of (representations of) various features of the current system, such as misandry, perjury, child abuse, suicide, financial plunder, unethical behaviour, legal tricks, arrogance, promotion and defence of immorality, disrespect for parental wisdom, disrespect for marriage.

    The challenging nature of the title may well arouse a little attention by media and key players. Generally, when reasoned argument, facts, sensible solutions and moderate slogans are used by men they are roundly ignored while every bleat by feminists, usually based on no good evidence and often on blatant fabrications or lies, is published without skepticism.

    The review currently underway will be the last chance to get substantial change for many years or decades. Various forces such as the Law Commission are arguing strongly to maintain the status quo (altruistically of course…), while feminist groups will be demanding that family law departs even further from principles of justice and fairness in order to extend preferential treatment of women and oppression and exploitation of men. As usual, most men will roll over and accept their abuse chivalrously. Our voice will need to be loud to be heard at all, and loudness can be achieved in various ways.

  17. MurrayBacon says:

    Hans has summed up the situation and the alternatives precisely.

    In my opinion, public awareness about under-performance and overcharging in all of our courts is at an all time high. Given the extra costs suddenly imposed by Christchurch’s earthquake and general international economic decline, NZ is in a situation where the do nothing alternative is unworkable and unthinkable (except for the Law Society!?).

    Similar issues have been boiling more vividly in UK and the UK Government has taken stringent action to attempt to reform Legal Aid. They are much more encumbered by red tape and mindless bureaucracy than NZ and their reforms appear to be relatively unsuccessful. Workable solutions were proposed, but so far the legal workers have been able to stymie them, to protect their own interests. This highlights how effective legal workers have been in working together to protect their vested interests.

    Changes must occur. Minister of Justice (Judith Collins) is an experienced familycaught$ legal worker, so it would be unnatural for her to support forward moving constructive changes.

    The National Government has made noises that it wants to redesign welfare, to encourage people to be self reliant where possible. Whether it has the stomach to put these changes into practice, is a challenge as big as Judith Collins has with familycaught$. My guess is that she will stall and end up asking to be replaced. The Government’s problem is that many voters are very happy with our present beneficiary style social policies and this is a difficult problem to surmount.

    In my opinion, we should be protesting for the Government to move forward, not against the Government.

    In fact, most of the problems facing the familycaught$ are created within our own social welfare policy. Until these problems are sorted, no form of family court could ever be workable.

    The social policy of “hand out money and people will use it wisely” approach has been shown to work sometimes, but the disasters are so numerous, as to be sinking NZ financially. Particularly, giving parents money, that the Government wants to be for the benefit of the children often fails. It fails as often with women, as with men. Measuring outcomes takes a lot of work, but without it NZ is a rudderless ship.

    Gwaihir above gave the example of outsourcing not working effectively. Whether work is done by own staff, or put out to open tender, either way the quality of the work needs to be measured and the placing of work managed accordingly.

    Applied to Legal Aid, the quality of the work done needs to be measured (even if only on a sampled basis). Then lazy legal workers who disserve their customers can be removed from the pack of providers.

    Similarly, noone is measuring the quantity and quality of judge’s work. They are free to run cases as slowly and inefficiently as they like. They do our 1950s watersiders proud! Until the Government says “our judges are threatening the welfare of all NZers” and starts competently measuring judge’s output, then we will continue slowly strangling and destroying our entire society. If we put this work out to open tender, we would have better assurance about the cost.

    Even so, it is still necessary to measure the quality and to give sufficient incentives for good quality work. At present, our judges operate under the same type of incentive system as do beneficiaries.

    In both cases, the taxpayer is being rorted. Part of measuring and ensuring quality, is to operate a working complaints handling system. Presently judges can resign to close off all investigation of their actions. We don’t let off bankrobbers if they promise to resign and neither should we give this comfort to judges. The Government sets a good example of public accountability and these same standards should be applied to judges too. USA and UK offer good examples of how to do this and we could just mindlessly ape one of those, if we are too lazy to look into the details ourselves.

    Similarly, the Government is proposing to measure whether beneficiaries are trying in good faith to seek work, as much as is practical. While our benefits system places high clawbacks on earned income and accommodation benefit adds to the disincentives to find work, we are incentivising=paying people to just stay on a benefit.

    Lets get our judges off their benefits and into doing useful work!

    Time for constructive, positive protests! MurrayBacon – just another axe murderer.

  18. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Hans Laven#16 and MurrayBacon #17

    Both of your posts I concur with…But Gentlemen there is another factor,and this is just my humble opinion ,that I think that should be mentioned concerning as in whats been happening in NZ and and western European society/governments for the last forty years ….

    Three basic words …’Basic Common sense’…That as been truly ‘thrown to kerbside’

    This Asian country I abode and work in,the economy is going extremely well and all citizens are benefiting from it …

    And the reason why …???..The economy as been simulated and grown by basic economic principles ..

    I have had major dealings with all government sectors in this Asian country both as in personal and in business…All what I can say with my experiences dealing with these government bureaucrats …’what a breath of fresh air’ ..There commonsense approach of dealing and fixing problems in this Asian Country is just so amazing to watch ..

    I can understand now, how now western European society is in such ‘deep S##t’

    Kind regards ….John Dutchie…Free at long last

  19. MurrayBacon says:

    Sunday Documentary is now showing about the difficulties parents face, when marriages split in Japan. This lawless caught system even impacts onto foreign countries, as it encourages, supports and protects overseas Japanese abductors who know they can retreat safely and securely into Japan.

    It is very painful watching a programme about Japan, when NZ is only minimally better, if at all. The words of the programme are implying that NZ is better, but this isn’t really true.
    http://menz.org.nz/2007/child-abduction-does-the-familycaught-know-what-it-is-doing/

    Watching this programme, reminds me of WW2 censorship, where newspapers sometimes left white space, where they were not allowed to publish an article. When censors prohibited printing white space, they sometimes filled the space with an overseas article on a similar topic, or put in an article that was so obviously inconsequential that it was clear to readers that it was the same thing as white space.
    http://menz.org.nz/2011/japan-the-child-abduction-capital/

    Robin Bowles, an Australian grandmother wrote a book “Taken In Contempt”, after her own granddaughter was abducted into France.
    http://menz.org.nz/2009/treating-non-abductor-as-though-they-were-the-abductor-france/
    http://menz.org.nz/2009/treating-non-abductor-as-though-they-were-the-abductor/
    http://menz.org.nz/2007/lets-prosecute-child-abductors/

    I have listened to a NZ barrister describe how a NZ judge gave a degree of trust to his ex-wife, already a known international abductor, to enable her second international abduction of his son. When I have described these “judges” as thieves and relationship vandals, these descriptions don’t do justice to this particular “judge”.

    NZ’s signature to Hague Convention overally results in more completed abductions each year and several $millions paid to NZ legal workers, just for endangering our children.

    Time has come, to exercise judgement. What is Hague Convention achieving for our children? More damage than positive achievement. Conceptually I would support it, but given the greed and incompetence in our caught$ and overseas caught$, it is only being counterproductive for our children.

  20. Ford says:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Binge-drinkers-take-over-Queen-St/tabid/309/articleID/255729/Default.aspx
    this was on 60 minutes..drunken people in queen street..mainly young half naked women and fighying too and noone got arrested
    and a story about motherly lust
    a mother invites her daughter b/f to live with them and she started having secret sex with him..got highly jealous and hired someone to kill him and got 5 yrs suspended sentence

  21. scotty says:

    so of the comments are shocking “kill” if it wasn’t for the family court I would have never had the privilege to have 50-50 care of my children.so to the fathers out there it have had fantastic service from the family Court and the lawyers we thank ,

  22. OK so we just rock up at 11? Do we need to prepare any banners or get our chants right beforehand. We want to look organised.

  23. Hans Laven says:

    Yep, it’s all go at 11 on Friday, Albert St Auckland outside the Family Court. Bring any placard that expresses your concern or recommendation. We hope to be doing some killing…. of symbolic figures representing common characteristics of the FC such as misandry, perjury, child abuse, suicide, financial plunder, unethical behaviour, legal tricks, arrogance, promotion and defence of immorality, disrespect for parental wisdom, disrespect for marriage. If our family law and the operation of our FCs get rid of those and a few others, it may actually have the potential to become a positive force in our society.

  24. MurrayBacon says:

    Hans has said it very well. Generally our laws are fairly good, maybe 80% mark. This still leaves a lot of problems, eg Child [and spousal] Support Act causes a large reduction in quality of upbringing for children, by seriously damaging accountability of Custodial Parent to Non Custodial Parent. It also loads costs unfairly onto the NCP and gives children impression their fathers aren’t very successful and mothers are, false impression of course. CYFs Act generally fairly good, but poorly implemented by CYFs and even more so by familycaught$ judges.

    Women suffer every bit as much as men, at hands of familycaught$. Both indirectly and directly.

    All of our caught$ and familycaught$ in particular are very inefficiently run, for the personal financial benefit of the “judges” and legal workers in general. Of course this cost is dropped onto honest taxpayers. This results in most of the workers in this system suffering from beneficiary thinking, which is damaging to their integrity and the quality of their work suffers accordingly.

    Parliament is the only organisation that can sort out these problems, so it is up to us to take constructive action. MurrayBacon – determined axe murderer.

  25. I’ll have to lend my voice to the conversation on the use of the word ‘Kill’ as the name of the protest. I suspect it will make us too easy to sideline and ignore.

    In negotiation to get the best deal you need your opening offer to be a bit outside what the other party will accept but not to far that you get dismissed as unworkable or a waste of time to listen to.

    It would be also very useful to engage people on an emotional level on why we are protesting. Even with guys, until it happens to them with their kids with or without the family courts involvement they have no idea on what is likely to happen to their childrens right to receive care from them upon separation.

    The 2001 North & South article hosted on this site communicates what can happen very well, something like that could be handing out to people in the vicinity so they get an understanding of what is going on and why change needs to happen.

  26. Ford says:

    #25..some people condone the use of such violent terms such as ‘kill’ and ‘murderer’ and when others use such colourful descriptions they take their opportunity to preach their self righteous shit

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