- promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience -


MENZ.org.nz Logo First visit to MENZ.org.nz? Here's our introduction page.
MENZ ISSUES

MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Sat 15th June 2013

Father 11 Mother 36

Filed under: General,Sex Abuse / CYF — Alastair @ 8:56 pm

I woder if IRD Will chase him for child support? Or for that matter the boy’s parents!

Case prompts minister to ask why women can’t be charged with rape

Current NZ law on rape makes it impossible for a woman to be accused of the crime.

Current NZ law on rape makes it impossible for a woman to be accused of the crime.

An 11-year-old boy fathered a child after sex with a school friend’s 36-year-old mother.

Both the father and child are now understood to be in care after the principal at the boy’s school raised the alarm.

The case has caused counsellors working in the area of child sexual abuse to highlight the lack of attention given to women as potential offenders.

It has prompted Justice Minister Judith Collins to step in saying she will seek more information on the law. “This case raises an important point. I will seek advice from officials on whether or not a law change is required.”

And it has also highlighted disparity in the law of rape, which makes it impossible for a woman to be accused of the crime.

Present legislation stipulates the crime of rape applies only when men force sex. Both carry a maximum sentence of 20 years but only men can be charged with rape. In contrast, women who force an unwilling partner to have sex face charges of sexual violation.

The Weekend Herald has chosen not to name the South Auckland school to protect the privacy of the children – the baby and the father.

Child Youth and Family confirmed it was dealing with a case at the school and that it was before the courts. It refused to make further comment, as did police.

The principal said he was shocked when the child revealed the details.

The boy approached him in his office about two-thirds of the way through the 2012 school year and told the principal he had a disclosure to make.

“You won’t be very happy with me,” he recalled the boy saying. He said he had been having sex with his friend’s mother “and it needs to stop”.

The principal said the boy was “very aware” of the situation he was in and determined he wanted the contact to end.

The Weekend Herald was told that the contact between the boy and the woman began about April last year, when the boy was aged 11. The woman’s son took a day off school and encouraged his friend to do likewise, spending the day at his home.

During the course of the day, the woman gave the boy beer to drink and then later took part in a sexual encounter with him.

The sexual contact continued for a number of months after the initial encounter, the Weekend Herald was told. The boy had turned 12 by the time the child was born. CYF took a baby into care about two months ago.

The principal confirmed the details. “We got CYF involved the minute we found out about it.”

Emails exchanged with a Child Youth and Family social worker, since retired, confirm the agency was involved. The CYF worker said police would be investigating – but also said the woman denied the sexual contact.

Male Survivors of Sexual Abuse manager Ken Clearwater said if the case were proved, the woman should be held accountable for her actions. Making charges able to be brought dependent on the gender of the offender was wrong and the law should be changed. “It is a huge issue for us.”

He said male victims of sex abuse carried out by women were equally as damaged as any other victim of rape.

“As a male you’re supposed to enjoy it but we don’t say that about young girls. Males are not seen as victims. The psychological damage is huge – and they carry extra shale because it’s a woman and you’re supposed to enjoy it.”

Mr Clearwater said most abuse of the sort in this case was not reported. He said the way the boy disclosed to the principal underscored the way in which the abuse was perceived. By saying “you won’t be very happy with me”, Mr Clearwater said the boy appeared to believe he was the one who had acted wrongly.

Mr Clearwater said the psychological impact would expose the boy to added risk of alcohol and drug abuse, relationship problems, anger and other mental health issues.

The executive director of Rape Prevention Education, Dr Kim McGregor, said male survivors of sexual offending by women often felt the abuse they suffered was minimised by society. “Just because sexual violence has been perpetrated by a female doesn’t make it any less violent.”

Manukau-based family lawyer Jeremy Sutton said under the law the boy would not have rights to the child unless he was present at the birth. He said he would have to make a case for access. He also said there were exemptions from child support for victims of sexual offending.

Liggins Institute director Professor Wayne Cutfield, an expert in the development of children, said boys became fertile about halfway through puberty, which could begin as early as age nine. “The onset of puberty is a lot younger than people think.”

Statistics New Zealand does not hold data on the ages of fatherhood, only of motherhood.

Far from the first! See http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/sxdb/dravitskibriar.htm from 2005!

36 Responses to “Father 11 Mother 36”

  1. Skeptic says:

    I need earplugs as the silence from feminists about this female rapist is deafening.

  2. Wayne Burrows says:

    One News that headlined Friday with a story about a man who was secretly filming upskirts – they chased him down the street – didn’t rate a mention of this female paedophile.

    There has been other potential gender issue news this week where there teachers council has allowed a female teacher to remain registered despite a history of physically abusing children. One news didn’t carry this story either as far as I could tell.

    There is a long history in that media of portraying men as abusers and women as victims in an uneven gender biased way.

  3. steve says:

    double up.
    This story already posted under here … Pussy Pass Post 128

  4. Man X Norton says:

    Yeah but this story is worth its own post I think.

  5. golfa says:

    I fail to see why “rape” is the focus of the article. Aren’t there other charges that could be brought against her like Sex with a Minor, Unlawful Sexual Connection, Child Abuse etc ? Or, are the Authorities looking for an excuse NOT to charge her by saying that she can’t be charged for rape ? Seems like a deflection tactic.

  6. omg you're (*&^^*&%^*&( says:

    Actually, I’m not rape is the actual word used in law anymore. Isn’t it all ‘unlawful connection’? I might be wrong. Either way, who’s taking bets that she doesn’t get a typical anti-male sentence?

  7. Gwahir says:

    I believe the exact wording is “UNLAWFUL Sexual Conection” What damage has it done to the child? I note the silence on the perpetrator. If we reversed the genders the offender will be locked up tight in the slammer.

  8. Alastair says:

    Is the boy now being punished for his misdeeds? Committing anyoe to CYF care is punishment enough.

  9. CourtWatch says:

    When is rape not rape?

    A Man, 36, coerces an eleven year old friend of his daughter’s to repeatedly have sex with him. He gets her pregnant, so that at age 12, she gives birth to his child. Nothing particulalrly new here. Apparently this sort of thing has gone on for years.

    The girl, ‘didn’t want anything to happen but felt powerless to stop.’ Despite the girl’s protestations, the man removed her shirt, jeans and underwear, then had sex with her[the court heard]. Though the man was given name suppression, Judge Connell said it was a close-run thing and ‘the public should be aware he could well be a predator in terms of this sexual offending’. A veritable predatory pedophile!

    What sentence should be given? Repeated rape? Male power and domination; innocent defenceless young girl, not even a teenager yet? Predatory sexual monster; Ruined a young girls life, education, her life career prospects severely diminished. ‘At her young age it could skew her sexual and emotional development, as well as her personal identity’. Get the bastard off the street!

    What sentence, I hear you all cry? Ten, twenty years jail with ten years extended supervision thereafter?

    Except this time, the young mother at twelve, is in fact a father.
    Auckland boy a father at 12

    I wait with bated breath to see a sentence of , oh I don’t know, maybe 12 months supervision? After all, the child will need a mother, won’t it?

  10. Steve says:

    Reading the article Skeptic just posted, ….
    And then re-reading what I posted a short while ago …

    Picture a world of no-fault on-demand abortion.
    Picture a world where the gender of babies is determined prior to birth, and ‘weaker’ gender babies are aborted in favour of ‘desired’ gender babies. (kind of like the common practice in one-child China; and also in girls-are-worthless-chattels India.

    Picture a world where men serve but two purposes:
    (1) Forced Manual labour; and
    (2) Sperm manufacture (semi-forced extraction [i.e. donate, or be sent back to the forced labour work camps]).
    Then you’ll begin to imagine a world where 90% of men are simply not required; and will never be born.
    Then, you have the we-don’t-need-men feminist utopia that awaits the western world.
    Wait for it. I give it forty years.

    Maybe I was wrong.
    I give it ten years ….

  11. gwallan says:

    What are the chances he ends up paying child support? Personally I’d have given him the right to force an abortion. She gave him alcohol as a part of this. Where I come from that makes it rape by law.

  12. Allan Harvey says:

    Zero chance for Child Support for this boy. The law has been changed and now provides him an exemption because of the abuse.
    It will be you and me caring for this child financially. The Child is already in care and will be “home for life” within 12 months.

  13. Gwahir says:

    And that means no contact with the mother which is probabally a good thing. For once I support CYF and H4L

  14. gwallan says:

    Thankyou Allan. In other jurisdictions child support payments for these victims are primarily premised on “best interests of the child”. Whilst a minor cannot legally consent to the sexual activity the slightest indication of willingness on their part can be treated as “consent to parenthood”.

    US examples…

    http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberthirtysix.htm

    “Reasoning that the father and mother had consensual sex, the court saw no reason to excuse the father from the consequences of his actions. Statutory rape cannot be used as a financial shield. San Luis Obispo County v. Nathaniel J., ___ Cal. App. 4th ___, 57 Cal. Rptr. 2d 843 (1996).”

    The same situation prevails in Australia. I know of individual instances where it has occurred although my attempts at getting broader statistical information have been blocked at every turn.

    “The law has been changed and now provides him an exemption because of the abuse.”

    Is that exemption actually written into law? If so it is something that is absent in other places.

  15. OMG you're *)(&%^& says:

    Nah. All the mother has to do, is receive someone from WINZ that she shouldn’t, and then refuse to give it over until cyfs give her her child back. Hey it might work ….

  16. Im not surprised that her offening is not in the child abuse section. Its just gona disappear as nothing happened.
    Would’nt surprize me. Take a look at the NZ hearlds. take a look at there site wow

  17. Skeptic says:

    This case and the willful lack of coverage, nay even comment given it by the NZ mainstream media is yet another reason, as though one were actually needed for men to reassess their social position within NZ culture. For those willing to steel themselves and do a reality re/check I recommend looking at this free online book for men. 8 chapters in all. It’s written primarily for the USA, but I think there are more than enough parallels to the NZ context to make it very worthwhile and thought provoking read.

  18. Danny says:

    Hi guys. Have you read the stuff news lately. This child sex offender was bailed to an address next to a school.
    If the gender was male she would not have been able to reside there WTF.Any way its come out that the boy was 13 and she
    36.In my eyes it makes no difference he is still a child and she raped him and then gets bail next to a school wow.

  19. Skeptic says:

    Danny,
    That would be the same little society who’s national airline bans men, but not women from sitting next to unaccompanied children on airplanes because the men just might be (drumroll……….to add dramatic tension………..) OMG rapists! The same little place that has feminist quackademics like Neville Roberts at Waikato Uni sucking on the taxpayers’ tit whilst spreading the misandric hate-speach bogey man that 1 in 4 women during her lifetime has been sexual abused.
    So it would be no surprise to me that this woman was bailed next to a school.
    The address of the school – Pussy-pass ville.

  20. Wayne Burrows says:

    Again as far as I can see neither major television news station have thought that this story of paedophilia rated a mention on their main news programme. TVNZ do have a story but no video on their webpage.

    This is in stark contrast to leading with a male perpetrator attacking women. It would seem to me that these stories would be on a par only with the gender reversed.

  21. Danny says:

    I’m not sure how to make a post or story on this site. Any way I am back on line and would like support in banning male
    circumcision its barbaric and should be put to rest. Genital
    mutilation is not right and maybe a good platform for change.
    I know we got all this other shit that we talk about here but here is something we can go to town about. I hate it needs to stop if you did that to a woman it would.
    It’s going to be hard when Hellin Clark says it I’will stop,hiv these people are a detriment to us all

  22. Danny says:

    Hellen so lets cut all the ends of penis that don’t agree with me

  23. Danny says:

    WE need to stop circumcision in NZ. I’ve been looking and the boys that get done wow. Some of the boys I saw in KL cut no anistictic and no need. This practace has to be outlawed.
    Fuck u Hellen Clark these boys don’t need to go through this.
    PS I hate u u maggot

  24. Skeptic says:

    Danny, here’s a link to the Boys Deserve Better campaign. I’m sure they would value some kiwi input.

  25. Man X Norton says:

    Ah yes, the nurturing side of women: “Bus fare driver: ‘I’m not a f***ing banker‘.

  26. OMG you're %&*%&^% says:

    I await the day a male bus driver (yes, there’s still a few of them) leaves a girl behind for the same reason, and then the unthinkable happens to her in a bus stop here is Mangere ….

  27. Wayne Burrows says:

    Prison this time but the victim was a girl:

    Woman, 39, jailed for teen liaison

  28. Wayne Burrows says:

    This is an amazing juxtaposition:

    Friday 35 year old woman guilty of two counts of unlawful sexual connection with a 13 year old boy. She gets 10 months home detention.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8852046/Home-D-for-womans-sex-abuse-of-boy-13

    Tuesday 29 year old man guilty of two counts of unlawful sexual connection and one count of rape of a 12 year old girl. He gets 10 years (discounted six months).

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8868911/Young-girls-life-destroyed-by-abuse

    The gender biased laws don’t allow for the woman to be charged with rape.

  29. Skeptic says:

    Wayne,
    Wow! Outrageous sentencing disparity.

  30. Man X Norton says:

    Teacher sent student at least 1500 texts

    This female teacher was stripped of her registration, unusual enough for any female offender. However, note the following pussy pass features of this particular little tale:

    – The 12-year-old girl alleged that the teacher touched her inappropriately at the teacher’s home on one of the number of occasions that the teacher and student “met up” outside of school. Yet the matter was not referred to police. A male teacher in similar circumstances would have police all over the case; let’s see what happens in this case.

    – Despite the content of the numerous texts, the analysis by experts that the texts were “characteristic of grooming” for sexual exploitation, and the student’s own account of inappropriate touching in inappropriate circumstances, the Teachers’ Disciplinary Tribunal in its wisdom “did not conclude that the teacher was motivated towards developing a sexual relationship with her”. Yeah right. This finding by the Tribunal will no doubt pave the way for the teacher to reapply for registration in the future. She can assert “I was only trying to support my student emotionally, as the Tribunal found”. We know that a history of offending isn’t much of a problem when it comes to female teachers returning to their positions of responsibility and influence.

    – The teacher was not named, consistent with the policy of the Tribunal. But where are the loud, public objections from the ‘name ’em and shame ’em” brigade that inevitably follow each case of a male teacher found to have done something wrong? And shouldn’t the public be warned about this predator? After all, she was obviously able to gain the trust of others because she was asked by her school to “keep an eye on the girl” due to family difficulties.

    – The wording in the article minimizes the teacher’s wrongdoing. I reproduce the whole article (because Yahoo news articles tend to expire before long) with comments where relevant:

    Teacher sent student at least 1500 texts
    NZ NewswireJuly 4, 2013, 7:52 am

    For a male teacher in similar circumstances we could expect a headline to emphasize his gender, e.g. “Teacher sent his student at least 1500 texts”

    A female teacher has been stripped of her registration after sending a 12-year-old student an “inordinate” number of text messages in an apparent attempt to groom her for a more intimate relationship.

    For a male teacher in similar circumstances we could expect “…to groom her for an inappropriate relationship” or “…to groom her for possible sexual exploitation”.

    The unnamed teacher, who was head of sport at an intermediate school, has been censured by the Teachers’ Disciplinary Tribunal for serious misconduct and had her registration cancelled.
    In the recently released decision, the tribunal says the 12-year-old girl was a student in one of the teacher’s classes. The teacher had been asked to keep an eye on the girl because her family was facing financial difficulties.

    For a male teacher we could expect “…the 12-year-old victim” and/or “…to keep an eye on the victim…”, rather than the term “girl”

    The pair exchanged cellphone numbers and began texting each other. At least 1500 text messages were exchanged and the teacher would send texts from first thing in the morning until, at times, as late as 11.28pm.

    The use of the words ‘the pair exchanged’ implies victim blaming and reduces the responsibility of the teacher. For a male teacher we could expect “The teacher obtained the victim’s cellphone number and established a pattern of texting exchanges.”

    The messages contained terms of endearment and profanities and the tribunal said the exchanges were “completely inappropriate” in terms of their language and tone.

    For a male teacher we could expect an emphasis that the teacher’s texts, not “the exchanges”, contained inappropriate language; e.g. “His texts to the victim contained terms of endearment and profanities…”

    Experts who analysed the text messages believed they were characteristic of grooming.

    There were also a number of occasions where the teacher and student met up outside of school. There was one incident in the teacher’s home where the girl said she was touched inappropriately.

    The words “the teacher and student met up” minimizes the teacher’s responsibility and implies victim blaming. For a male teacher we could expect “…the teacher arranged meetings with the victim…”

    The tribunal said the relationship “went well beyond the bounds of a proper relationship between a teacher and any student”.

    While the teacher was trying to develop a deeper emotional relationship with the girl, the tribunal did not conclude that the teacher was motivated towards developing a sexual relationship with her.

    For a male teacher we could expect the term ‘the victim’ rather than ‘the girl’.

  31. Man X Norton says:

    And another pearl from the Teachers Disciplinary Tribunal. When a female teacher repeatedly steals food from her very young students, she gets to keep her registration and remains in her position. But when a male teacher simply utters some unwise and unrealistic threats towards much older and unruly secondary school students, he is deregistered. One assumes the Tribunal didn’t care about studies including this recent one finding many teachers are now fearful in their own classrooms due to increasing violence and uncontrollability of children. Such deteriorating, undisciplined behaviour in children is the outcome of our adoption of feminist ideology when it comes to authority and discipline vis-a-vis children, this being the same ideology that saw the Tribunal treat a few unwise words from a male as being more serious than repeated, actual exploitative and abusive behaviour by a female.

  32. BigBud says:

    Nah. Whoever is a reasonable earner pays CYFs more in Child Support than CYFs pay child and carers, so it will probably be me (and thousands of others) paying for it.

  33. Gwahir says:

    More in this, maybe equality is improving, she was remanded in custody as prison is likely!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900321

  34. Ministry of Men's Affairs says:

    Boy asked for maths help, teacher gave sex
    By Lauren Farrow, AAPAugust 29, 2013, 8:07 pm

    After more than 20 years in the profession, a “huge need to feel love” caused a teacher to turn to a teenage student for sex.

    The 51-year-old known only as EP sobbed as she told Sydney’s District Court on Thursday why she began having sex with the 15-year-old boy.

    Following the breakdown of an unhappy marriage in 2006, the woman said she became depressed and suicidal.

    “I felt that the last eight years of my marriage that my husband didn’t love who I was and just liked me being around as a housewife,” she told her sentence hearing.

    “I had this huge need to feel love and it was a distorted view of what I thought I needed.”

    While in this frame of mind, she interpreted the boy’s request for help with maths “totally inappropriately”.

    “I thought I read them as someone loving me or seeing me as someone of value.”

    The woman, who has pleaded guilty to three counts of aggravated sexual intercourse, embarked on a series of encounters with the boy over a period of two months in 2008.

    Sometimes EP, herself a mother of three, would pick the boy up in her car with other students but would ensure he was dropped off last.

    In 2011 an anonymous phone call sparked an investigation into the matter and brought an end to her 27 years as a maths and religion teacher.

    Since then the woman recounted how she has struggled to hold down work, with another anonymous tip-off alerting a former employer to the charges.

    She said she had “feelings of total disgust about what I had done”, adding, “It is really hard trying to like myself again.”

    In a victim impact statement read to court, the now 20-year-old man said the experience with his former teacher continued to affect him.

    “When I was 15 she made me feel excited and powerful but as I matured I felt ashamed, angry, guilty and confused.”

    Anger management issues, post traumatic stress symptoms and depression are just some of the side-effects that continue to plague him.

    Defence barrister Peter Gow said his client was remorseful, had pleaded guilty at the first opportunity and had good prospects of rehabilitation.

    He also submitted the offences were of the “low to mid” range, with EP using no force, coercion or pressure.

    “She has certainly brought things on herself. But she has lived with the stigma of what she has done.”

    But Judge Colin Charteris said “parents do not send their children to school to become sexual opportunities for teachers”.

    The woman wept as two Corrective Services officers entered the court and Judge Charteris said no sentence other than a period of full-time imprisonment was appropriate.
    She was taken into custody and will be sentenced on Monday.

Leave a Reply

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

Since May 2016 this site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

« »

Powered by WordPress

Skip to toolbar