- promoting a clearer understanding of men's experience -


MENZ.org.nz Logo First visit to MENZ.org.nz? Here's our introduction page.
MENZ ISSUES

MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Sat 19th January 2013

It is important that people complain

For us to make NZ into a better environment, for men, women and children, it is important that people complain vigorously and constructively.

I have suggested that NZ has a serious mafia problem, in terms of secret caughts, that pillage families and fail to do what Parliament allocates money to achieve.

The control mechanism intended by Parliament to protect citizens from secret mafia actions in familycaught$, has been setup to be ineffective and useless, but still expensive to taxpayers.

The Ombudsman Office has provided advice on how to make more effective complaints:

Teaching resources
These teaching resources are about the language of complaint. They are for teachers working with people who are not confident speaking and writing English and are free for anyone to use. You can use the leaflets and case studies on this page to help with teaching the topics. They were developed by a group of New Zealand complaint handling organisations including the Ombudsman.

Is it OK to complain?
Writing to complain
Where to get more help resolving a complaint
Complaining about goods and services

I hope this doesn’t sound cynical, but for the sake of maintaining good mental health, we must be realistic about the likely outcomes from our complaint.
Accountability that was never really intended to work !

Having warned about being realistic, improvements will only come from constructive complaints dressed up as letters, or protests, or debate in newspapers, or arresting lawyers or judges on their way about town.
Cheers, MurrayBacon – axe murderer.

30 Responses to “It is important that people complain”

  1. Gwahir says:

    I would support Murray in this call. One act he fails to mention is the official Information act (Used against all government Departments) Local Government Information Act (Similar to the above but applying to local governments) and the Privacy Act (Everybody Else) We are about to have the biggest invasion of our personal privacy in the Census. While I do not knock the head count to much, why do they Demand names, addresses, computer information, where we lived in the past. No far to intrusive! Its enough to support Identity theft, letalone information sharing with other Government Departments!

  2. MurrayBacon says:

    —– Original Message Follows —–
    > Dear Murray,
    >
    > Complain about what? If we want to be effective activists
    > we do need to be clear and precise about what we are
    > advocating, don’t you think?
    >
    > As for your regular mention of “caughts”, this is grossly
    > incorrect, and even reedeeculous. What you really mean is
    > Courts, don’t you? After all, the word “caught” refers to
    > the catching of someone – he is caught!!!
    >
    > Best wishes,
    >
    > B*****a
    _______________________________________________________

    Dear B*****a,

    thank you for your complaints!

    In terms of clarity, I can only plead that I may have been using Socratic questioning technique. This allows each reader to perceive material, in a manner that is most relevant for themselves, or even consider how the complaining advice might be used for several different areas of dissatisfaction.

    Personally, I consider that NZ’s largest problems stem from Social Welfare Act and familycaught$ malfeasance and malpractice. Not everyone shares my opinion and other people do complain about parking tickets, or the failure to serve the public by the Judicial Complaints Hider, or the lack of convenient parking in a city, or schools accepting enrolments from a mother without question, but requiring an enrolment by a father to be countersigned by the mother (when more than 85% of abductors are mothers), or why doesn’t it only rain at night?

    I guess the list is never ending. Anyway, the Ombudsman’s website just tried to offer general advice about complaining, so I thought this may be useful to some menz readers, just how it is.

    My use of the word “caught$”, instead of the older, traditional word “courts”, reflects my observation that their public function is to deliver spectacles of hanging, without too much regard to whether the actual murderer was the actor who had his head torn off his shoulders. For a period of time, I thought this only applied to familycaught$.

    All that matters, is that someone is caught. It doesn’t matter who or why or even what, just that someone is publicly punished. Accordingly, the name “caught” seems to describe the actual function more precisely, so this is why I have degenerated to the point of using it thus. This has now gone on to the point that punishments are given out not just for crimes that have occurred, but also for crimes that could have occurred.

    On having it pointed out to me that this was true of all of the caught$ “serving” the NZ public, I eventually realised that this was true.

    Partly this is a criticism of caught$ for being form over substance, but mainly it is a criticism of the NZ public for meekly accepting such a dismally poor quality of service, for their vast sums of money. It seems their hearts are not in the right place, or they are seriously misinformed and as a result, unable to take useful action.

    Best regards and thanks,
    Murray.

  3. Down Under says:

    My complaint is that there is of course a problem with the use of caught in place of court. If you’re caught then you have to go to caught and then you become caught up in the caught system. Those who operate the caught rely on not getting caught for what they ought not get caught for but then they don’t have to go to caught if they do get caught anyway; that’s caught I mean not caught. To save getting caught up in this courtship between court and caught we could hash tag #caught as such, to distinguish between caught and #caught(symbolism for court) and then Murray, you could sign your posts axe-murderer and language-butcher.

    P.S. exceeding happy language-butcher with who now has two complaints.

  4. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Down Under, you have picked up on good points that I missed out on:

    It is really all out of 1984. It seems so far in the past, that George Orwell so presciently predicted our futures…

    .. and then you become caught up in the caught system.

    I always have an image of a large old mangle and someone carefully testing it, by just putting a couple of fingers into it. By the time the mangle and the invisible legal worker working the handle have finished, the whole person has been right through it.

    Those who operate the caught, rely on not getting caught for what they ought to get caught for.

    This is the very reason that we should be making complaints. The policeman who was prosecuted for perjury in Whakatane, the prosecution was a private prosecution. Thus the complainer didn’t give up when the police refused to complain, he got his own lawyer to do the prosecution and succeeded. This is what I really mean by complain, not just being a wimp who writes and posts a letter of complaint.

    Don’t waste your hash on tags, make the best use of it. Real life is a crutch for people who can’t handle drugs.

    Thanks.
    MurrayBacon – deranged Mangler.

  5. danjohnston says:

    Very very good post!

  6. CSA says:

    Thanks for your comments on the site. I wonder if you get anywhere with http://www.fathers4justice.org.nz/ – would be nice to have contact details on the site to join it.

  7. Gwahir says:

    Any complaint should be addressed to a senior person say Site Manager, general manager, Chief Executive Officer, set out exactly what wour complaint is about, accompanied by COPIES of any documents , (e.g. a receipt) photographs etc to support your caoplaint. It should conclude with what you want done. If you can quote any applicable law e.g. the Consumers Guarantee Act or the Fair Trading Act. Have a read, and quote relevant clauses! This can make your complaint very powerful.

    It is important you are specific and use non threatening language.

    @ CSA The organisation http://www.fathers4justice.org.nz/ – iks unknown to me. Specific complaints are best not discussed in public. There is Pauls-news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pauls-news/ which is a “secret group.” Ypo use your real name and ISP address. It has rules and is moderated

  8. bunny says:

    HELP with Family Court WANTED

    I have just had an Admin. Review under Ground 9 dismissed. I am applying for a departure order to the Commissioner of IRD under Section 104 and the grounds are found under section 105 of the Child Support Act of 1991.

    That, by virtue of special circumstances, application in relation to the child of the provisions of this Act relating to formula assessment of child support would result in an unjust and inequitable determination of the level of financial support to be provided by the liable parent for the child because of

    (ii)
    Any payments, and any transfer or settlement of property, previously made (whether under this Act, the [Property (Relationships) Act 1976] or otherwise) by the liable parent to the child, to the qualifying custodian, or to any other person for the benefit of the child;

    The above is information received from the Court Register.

    As I am now wading into murky waters unaided by a shark (lawyer), I am unsure what applications I need to lodge with the Family Court and the process.

    Has anyone else been through this process and has information or resources they can share? I would be most grateful.

  9. Gwahir says:

    Bunny, Contact Union of Fathers (http://www.uof.org.nz) They are not Sharks!

  10. Allan Harvey says:

    Hi Bunny,
    Ground 9 is one of the most difficult to argue at Administrative Review. The only ones I have seen succeed at that stage are cases where the property agreement has specifically mentioned the reason for the uneven settlement being for benefit of children. The problem is most of the sharks have limited knowlegde about Child Support and write poor agreements and don’t understand the implications of the agreements they draft.
    You can try in the Family Court but only very few Child Support matters reach Court as the costs of representation normally outweigh any possible benefits that may be gained by the applicant. There are probably less than 50 cases a year nation wide.

  11. Divorced Man says:

    Thanks for this post, really encouraging.

  12. kumar says:

    UOF,Fathers for justice…MENZ group..why can’t we have one single platform? One website…on 0800 or local number…pressure group..lobby group to expose people, officials, groups who hate us!!?

  13. Gwahir says:

    @ Kumar – We Used to! Remember 0800FATHER? I have never Heard of Fathers for Justice. UoF does well in it’s own quiet way. Can I conclude with a question, similar to one I posed recently. Maybe to achieve this Kumar. YOU could well be the someone!

  14. Allan Harvey says:

    Kumar (#12)
    All it needs might be a generous donation of your time and money.
    UoF tried to be a unifying force and MENZ took a sideways move. The history is on this site for you to read. Fathers for Justice is a UK group and has never been here.
    One organisation has a free calling number. This is provided by an individual supporter.

  15. kumar says:

    Politicians are probably too timid to fund us or give us grants as they do for WRefuge.

  16. Allan Harvey says:

    Kumar what we do have has been funded by blokes themselves. That is step one and probably was also step one for groups like Refuge as well. If you wish to support then there are groups ready to take your contributions. Alternatively there are groups happy to accept your gift of time and energy.

  17. Skeptic says:

    Kumar,
    have you thought of setting up a facebook page that would attract people with a similar interest?
    It may seem like a very humble thing to do. But It provides a great ready platform for people to add videos, commentaries, links to useful sites, images, sound recordings all of which becomes a great permanent record of institutionalized misandry and challenges for Men in NZ.
    You would have total control over it’s content too as site moderator.
    As such it would be an almighty thorn in the side of those who would hate it immensely as they’d rather that Men’s Human Rights issues remain as invisible as they can render them.
    You’d just need to be very clear in stating what exactly the page was for to attract the right people.
    I’m out of the country at present (but keeping a diligent daily watch) otherwise I’d do it myself.
    Food for thought?

  18. John Brett says:

    To Murray the mad language murderer- just so long as we don’t let them get away with “Justice System” I’m happy!

  19. Skeptic says:

    Murray,
    the complaints about New Zealand misandry are going global.
    Care to add to swell the chorus?

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/paradise-with-a-hefty-price-part-1/

  20. Allan Harvey says:

    The Dutton work is great stuff and quite an antidote to the status quo.
    However implementing it in parental alienation situations is often tough.
    Are you aware of this letter from Judge to Children (to be read after they were older)

    Dear X and Y,

    After your mum and dad separated they could not agree about where you were to live. You were 10 and 6 at the time. As a judge it was my job to make this decision. I had a lot of help from the lawyer who was representing you, and each of your parents, as well as an expert child psychiatrist. Even with all of this help it was a hard, sad case to decide. This letter is to try to explain my decision to you, even though you probably won’t read it for many years.

    The most important thing I want to tell you is that both your mum and dad love you very much. They loved you from the day you were born, love you now, and will love you for the rest of their lives. Just because your dad may not have been around for a while, it does not change that he loves you.

    At the time I had to decide the case your mum believed in her heart that your dad hurt you. My job is to look at all the information, and listen very carefully to what everybody says including the experts. I decided that you had not been hurt by your dad. Even after I told your mum what I decided, I think she still believed in her heart that your dad had hurt you. This just goes to show that sometimes words do not change a person’s heart.

    At the time of the case both of you were saying things, and doing things, that told me you did not like your dad, and did not want to spend time with him. I don’t think you really meant this. I think maybe you were picking up the things that mum was worried about. I listened to what you were saying, but in the end the hard decision I had to make was not because of what you were saying or doing.

    I told you this was a hard, sad case to decide. I decided that even though your dad really wanted you to live with him, it was best that you lived with mum, even though this might mean moving away from where you lived at the time. I knew your mum would look after you really well. I decided not to make your mum let you see your dad, even though your dad wanted this very much. I thought it would make things harder for you if I had done this.

    By the time you read this letter I think you will be old enough to make up your own mind. I hope you will think about contacting your dad and getting to know him again. There are people called counsellors who can help you with how you feel about this, and help you to make it happen. Please remember that both your mum and dad love you very much, even if they love you in different ways.

    End of Judges letter

    Often case work is tough. I have had one case similar to the above where a Father was just trying his best but Mum was fragile, Child was at risk and Court decided no contact for at least 3 years. Father and I are now planning how to best reinitiate contact.

  21. Down Under says:

    That says it all. You can summarise that letter in a sentence. The court doesn’t consider the father an equal parent; it doesn’t even consider him a parent.

  22. Scott B says:

    Sperm donor? Yes

    Wallet? Yes

    Parent? No

    Human being? No

    Scapegoat? Yes

  23. Nickstar says:

    @ Scott B….I totally agree and I am a partner or a lovely, caring man/father that gets screwed by this whole CS system/family court. Its really sad/fustrating and unfair.

  24. michaelqtodd says:

    We HAVE to start getting stories heard. Right now I am being stopped from leaving New Zealand for miniscule child support arrears which I deny even exist (has been over 2 weeks now). This is my second time to go through this (last time the IRD was laughed out of courts)but I stayed pretty much silent. Anyone know a good lawyer for this kind of matter

  25. Down Under says:

    What happened to the one that got the IRD laughed out of the courts?

  26. michael q todd says:

    The IRD just ignore being laughed out of the caught. They just continue to put their make believe numbers and calculations on letters and computer screens then go to a different caught and hope that the original file never finds the light of day. This approach has been successful for them. The Family caught staff have now said that they have lost the original file

  27. kiranjiharr says:

    @ 27.. don’t you think thats a bit too convinient? stinks of obstruction to me. we all know IRD and FC lie in bed together..

  28. clenz says:

    I too have been through the Nelson family court, and am still fighting for a child who should never have been put into the care of a person who was supposedly “reformed” according to report writers (out of town report writers). Since then the child has been shut down from the family who raised her for 8 years and the person who got day to day care was sentenced to 6 months home detention for “threatening to kill”,and “assault with a weapon”.
    The counsel for child was privy to affidavits that would have alerted any “reasonable” person to the fact that this person was not “reformed”, and the history showing that they harbored serious resentments that have resulted in the abuse of a child.
    I am now fighting just to get leave to apply for a contact order which I already had and the other party breached?
    I can so relate to all those people who have written about being mislead, and deceiving the courts. I would like to hear from anyone who has been through the civil courts as a result, and also how do you work with the media?

  29. clenz says:

    The previous post was meant to say “deceived by the courts”, not “deceiving the courts”.

Leave a Reply

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

Since May 2019 this site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

« »

Powered by WordPress

Skip to toolbar