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Fri 14th March 2014

Child Support – Has anyone taken the IRD to court over assesment?

Filed under: General — BrokenHeartedDad @ 7:21 am

I have just had my “assessment” for the next year arrive in the mail yesterday. What I am bewildered about is that the IRD gives me a “living allowance” of $288.00 a week? The average rent for a 3 bedroom house in Auckland is $550.00 a week on it’s own let alone food, power, water, transport. petrol etc. How the hell do they expect anyone to live on an allowance of $288.00? This is so out of date it’s ridiculous. The more ridiculous thing is that they give me a living allowance of $288.00 yet they want me to pay over $400 a week in “child support” for my 2 year old Son?!?!? How can this possibly be justified? Child support should be just that.. support for the child. How can a 2 year old possibly cost over $400 a week? This is not child support, this is criminal support going to my nasty ex-wife. Has anyone actually taken the IRD on the definition of child support? Surely the support of a 2 year old can’t be almost double what they give me as a living allowance? Child support should be a set amount depending on the age of the child, not worked out based on my income. Children cost the same amount to raise no matter how much money you earn. I am seriously thinking of taking the IRD to court over this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers! : )

27 Responses to “Child Support – Has anyone taken the IRD to court over assesment?”

  1. MumAndDadofSix says:

    You could try an administrative review first – non legalese, no cost, no risk. This does sound ridiculous. I’ve won seven admin reviews in a row and would be happy to help.

  2. Fortitude says:

    Don’t pay it. Take them to court. Good luck.

  3. hornet says:

    Please understand the system is designed = deliberately to be difficult so you can not challenge it – this is how govts make money to spend they are protecting and ring fencing this income stream – literally like their lives depend on it…….which they do, if they cant create DEBT out of nothing – then they cant borrow more money to waste – The Child Support penalty industry is just that – demand excessive amounts from good parents knowing you have NO WAY in hell of challenging them – the only ones who currently benefit are those borrowing money against that inflated DEBT – NZ has $2 Billion Child Support PENALTY DEBT – excluding what is actually owed by good parents – so the more debt created the more they can borrow against it – they dont want you to know this of course – because its a sham, its corrupted and totally unfair and unjust…….

    I have spoken with lawyers – tax experts and as they say – forget taking them on – its you against a big bullying state with all the resources available to squash you – even tax experts say the law is DELIBERATELY COMPLEX and DIFFICULT – so NO ONE has the ability to challenge it……understand this……DELIBERATELY DIFFICULT……..

    As for ADMIN reviews – my direct experience is they are DELIBERATELY Discriminatory against the person who has income, assets or anything else they can leverage excessive demands against to increase the penalty industry when you cant pay – …….they breach human rights, bill of rights,, treaty rights, rights to own personal property, rights to travel, rights to parent your own kids – they care not – and they are permitted to do this, because the Human Rights commission in NZ is NOT permitted to investigate complaints – been there done that…….

    The ombudsmans office – there to oversea FAIRNESS for all – is also deliberately stalling and refusing to investigate a complaint of Breaches of Due process at REVIEW – total refusal – in fact they have MORE excuses as to why they cant investigate or wont – protecting the very govt departments behaving in this way – and we apparently do not have corruption in NZ – those who refuse to take complaints are Complicit in the offence – they are parties to Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice – a refusal to take a complaint means there is NOTHING officially recorded as to the concern – so it can continue unabated – protections are in place so they can do what ever they like to you – the good parents just wanting to have time with your kids and look after them the best you can……its a scam and it needs to be held to account – but when the very departments we go to for help are so CORRUPTED – SO CONFLICTED in protecting an abusive system – then sadly we the people have no where to make legitimate complaints and get any real justice – that is the world we all seem to now be living in………..

    if you won a review = you need a medal – I have been refused attendance on three occassions now…..along with a host of other breaches of due process……..which as I say is sanctioned and permitted – because no one will investigate this …………

  4. If you don’t pay, you’ll end up in arrears. For me initially, with no income (as WINZ would activate after a while if you had been working before), they were still demanding the full amount. At least your weekly amount is less than your gross income. My weekly liability was like 4 times more than my gross weekly income. And when I managed to get a meeting with them, they just told me that my average annual income hadn’t fallen by 15%, as if non-custodial dads are somehow magically capable of saving money in the NZ economy. And as for the child support definition that you say, by right, it should be called mummy support.

    My advice, pay whatever you can, get a budget done by some accountant, and then opt for an administrative review. Its no use thinking about taking this branch of IRD to court. You’ll effectively be taking them to the close family a.k.a females court, and they work more on moral responsibilities than laws. Just try to reason with IRD and hope it goes okay.

    Its too late to call your ex-wife nasty now. We men often get bound by their sweet talk and crocodile tears all the time and by the time we realize what happened, its too late.

    And WHATEVER happens, do not commit ANY violence against your ex-wife in way, verbal or physical….. Feminists want men to live under their feet, and they know that they have got the full support of the state if men retaliate. And they completely hate MWGTOW, because they can’t do anything to them. After all a man IS needed by them to give seed to their investment.

    I know of some people who may be of some help to you in providing useful information. Inbox me, and I may be able to be of some help to you.

    Cheers

    Another survivor who has fallen through the gaps of the system.

  5. wondering if you have access to your son?
    this is such a joke, i’ve written to Andrew Little Labour Member..

    the government needs to stand up an look at this as a whole…lack of access high child support etc…if said parent is on the DPB they don’t get what other parent pays…so why the high payments…!!!

  6. hornet says:

    No the stopping you from seeing your own child is part of the plan – its deliberate – why do you think Court orders to see you own child are NOT ENFORCED – why CYFS will not help you, the police will NOT help you do the RIGHT thing……..no wonder so many good parents in this country have to take the law into their own hands – the system refuses to help you see your own kid – and this is deliberate – we have a massive conflict of interest going on here – acceptable practice by lawyers and our judiciary if you had not noticed in the papers recently……

    lawyers ENFLAME conflict, stopping parents seeing their own kids is the best way to ENFLAME conflict – and who benefits = LAWYERS – the COURTS in more business……..

    Allow parental alienation to flourish, allow attacks on your credibility, allow provocations and abuse to run riot -= why ???? Because it increases CONFLICT….

    Wake up NZ parents – these dog lawyers are DELIBERATELY not helping you – the courts are NOT helping you – because they are in direct conflict of interest – to help would mean a DECLINE in BUSINESS ……..

    They offer a SERVICE to HELP parents = but as many will testify here – they NEVER DELIVER – the INCREASE and ENFLAME CONFLICT – for PROFIT……

    Until that stops – more and more good parents wil be deliberately deprived of time with their own kids – and there will be more good parents and children as sacrificial victims for profit…….they are running riot with this, having a blast at your expense…….

  7. my letter to Andrew Little today..
    Morning Andrew,
    was talking to the lovely Jancinta ..

    this is about child support an access..
    so many people out there have a great deal of trouble to see their children/grandchildren ,

    i have made contact before the last election not 1 response about this subject…National plus Labour Maori Parties…

    Please read MENZ Issues it’s a forum not sure of email address…totally heart broken at times..

    anyways i would love to see the family courts to stop an think more about the whole situations …many suffer the same the their party stop or cause problems for the other party to access to the children …in this case i think the child support should be stopped til such time that party gets their act together…it’s just not the child that misses out but also the families as a whole..i’m a grandmother an have been through the family court system way to much just to see my granddaughter…1 Mother doesn’t responded to letters 2 her lawyer doesn’t responded, 3rd lawyer for child doesn’t follow things up as she says she would..but then again i’m not sure my lawyer is innocent either…court time legal aid stress on child if this system was re looked at an readjusted . it would save alot of mucking around…

    my granddaughters mother is in a new relationship (nice guy with another child to another woman) they have a child together, he gets a good wage Linesmen she works for ANZ , i thought there was a new law about child support that looks at the income of that house whole, not saying the other parent (my son) doesn’t need to pay…but alll about access …some mainly men have to pay a huge amount an still don’t get access, Andrew seriously if you’ve never had or seen this for yourself 1 wouldn’t understand how it feels..Heart breaking…

    Please can you bring this into some action so the country will see, not just turn a blind eye as many do…

    much regards
    Donna

  8. When we were 1st married now ex was paying 75 i think a week back in 86, we went an saw IRD took all our bills etc was dropped to 25 a week…she was on thre DPB plus had other childen by then …
    after my marriage was broken i never stopped him from seeing our children (4), his then new relationship (now married) produced 7 more, he paid 40 a month for 17 years til i contacted IRD an him to say our youngest is now working more than 30 hours so child support was stopped..

    My heart goes out to you guys…this system sucks big time…the money goes to the mother, for makeup an going out not for all but most…oh an travelling overseas with partner…not bitter just pissed off…

  9. @ donna nicely put keep up the great writing.:)
    @hornet nice :)
    @mum and dad of six good stuff :)

    @ broken hearted dad, sorry to hear that was me 2 and a half years ago and still going by the way,

    Yes I got that same letter and the same angry type of ex that doesn’t take anything of what you have to pay at all into consideration, in fact they don’t give a toss about you, you are nothing more than a pay check now, and if you end up on the street or jail they still collect.

    Deal with it move on and be smart,

    Don,t take them to court they have unlimited funds (of your taxpayer dollars) to fight you with a totally corrupt system

    There is a way it will take a little time but you have to fight and be prepared to lose everything to get anywhere with them.

    A mate did it successfully it took him 3 goes and a few months with very little money but it can be done,

    To fight a unjust system you must fight and fight hard the IRD is the worst department of them all.

  10. P.S they just take it automatically from your employer if you don,t pay by the way, before you even see it, they send a demand to your employer and then they are also in the poo if they don’t comply, by taking it from your paycheck.

  11. can’t we get a law passed if we get enough people to sign it..re child support an access etc???????

    at least we can see it’s getting looked at an something done…

  12. Bruce Chase says:

    Kia ora as most of the respondence have suggested, as I have been through this and still am. Ask for a review its a bit of work on your part, find a grounds that you feel is applicable to your current circumstance. Obviously not sure of your circumstances, any thing that you pay outside of your child support amount that is related to your child record it and get a receipt and I mean EVERYTHING it sounds trivial however its worth it and you can use that information at the review. I suggest you try and find someone within Child Support dept and plead your case, I would always demand to speak with the supervisor eventually I found a person who actually knew what they were talking about. I would when I had an enquiry etc ask for this person, diarise every conversation you have with them. At review take a support person, and only answer the question that is asked dont go off track. I received advice from a former tax investigator who had advised me to keep your answers if possible to one syllable words but be polite, Unfortunately your support person is not allowed to speak on your behalf nor record the conversation either by diarising or electrinically record the conversation. When you do a budget of your living expenses dont short change yourself you need to live to, i;e I put things such as petrol 2 beers a week etc. I would suggest you go to budget advice I found a lovely lady who helped me alot when dealing with Child support who even had ameeting with my local MP on my behalf as well as the regional IRD manager. However I was relentless I was on the phone with them everyday for over year, explaining my case. What ever you do pay something dont let the amount get out of control. You may even what to find out if your ex is working or receiving some sort of benefit as this need to be taken into account as to how much you are to pay. You need to get smart rather than spiteful vengeful, these emotions wont help you. I eventually went onto the dole which goes against my principals to reduce the amount I was paying, the current system is wrong however it is what it is, Be smart be familiar with the system and try and make it work for you. its easier said then done I know. Wish you well

  13. Bruce i like everything you said…

  14. Bruce Chase says:

    Kia ora all, over period of time and meany dealing with IRD. I have learnt that the non custodian parent be it mum or dad, you need to be cvery smart from the off. I have managed to in most part pay my child support on time without IRD interference. I dont have the payments come out of account automaticlly, i physically do it. Which seems atiquated however at least Im in control and if I know im going to be short etc I always rung IRD to let them know, I did this so that there was a trail. My experience, good fathers will fore go their share of the property in order that the child/ren have a secure place to live. i did that against my lawyer and friends advice make sure you inform IRD with a written document stating you choose to fore go you share of the property to ensure that your child or children have a scure place to live, that will go a long way to off set child support payments, yo must do this straight away. I didnt hence I still pay child support 6 years later. If possible try to agree on ammicable amount that the non custodian parent pay each month and set it up so that payments go to custodian parent via IRD, why do this? There is a paper trail and it then makes it very difficult for the custodian parent to cause a stir by wanting more at the drop of a hat. In the early days of a separations go to the family court and request mediation it cost nothing and the courts like this as it keeps thing out of court. Also ask for councilling for your child/children, if it goes to court at least you can say you tried to provide help for your children. Diarise everything you do, you never know you may need it latter. Inform the bank asap and set up a new account if youhavnt got one already and move your $$ in to that or better still if its getting real messy open a TAB account IRD cant go into it and take $$$ its a pain to manage that account but again it may be worth it in the long run. Remembring that the IRD can go into your account and take the money from your account, I know it happend to me a week leading up to Christmas. During this period time try to keep contact with your child children, NEVER Openly abuse your ex infront of anyone especially your children this is important. Again any $$$ spent on them keep the receipts you will need this later. When it comes to visitation rights for the Non custodian parent I think its less than 5% success rate in the courts of a non custodian parent winning a battle around up holding visitation rights that were agree in court. The odds particulary for fathers unfortuantely are stacked against you unless you have wads of cash dont bother, its a hard one but believe me been there to.
    As in my previsou email you MUST work hard to keep your dignaty if not for for your children. Unfortuantly in my case despite all my fighting the system etc my EX has succeeded in poising my son. He hates me and he dosent know why. Ihave not seen in him as a father should for 6 years it breaks my heart every day. However I know I did everything I could to be a father to my son. I suggest when going through the separation process inform the school they may try to deny giving you any information, this is illegal however once again this is what happen to me. Be smart folks and remember despite all the wrongs of the system and the difficulites you will have remember your children. Unfortunately parential alienation is not recognised in this country hence why its difficult to deal with within the realms of the current law, if you can find some middle ground that is ammicable it may mitigate the likelyhood of you and your child being a victim of PA Parential Alienation, as previously mention I miss my son am broken hearted. Dont let this happen to you . Kia kaha

  15. @ Bruce i knew of a father that had a alcohol problem, the mother tried to stop all visits, he got a good lawyer (Pitball) he ended up with every 2nd weekend stay overs no booze or drug within that time…easy for him…

    Lawyer for Child in your case should be asking for counselling under S133 i think it’s called.. an getting to the bottom of sons problem…it goes on way to often..something needs doing!!!

  16. you have my sympathy. The battle has been fought and lost in all other aspects except taking them to court. I have lived on both sides of this fence. We even tryed having a deduction due to affordability. We listed and provided proof of everything. They listed my daughters sever asthma as entertainment during this process to reduce this so we could afford to pay the $1000 per month that they expected. there assessment was based on what a family would get on the dole not taking into consideration the excess benefits such as rent relief that a family on the dole would receive and the occasional food grant and power bill that families on the dole could receive. we were both working full time jobs and paying full rent with no relief or assistance and paying taxes. then they would take the balance of the money before tax and take out 18% for cs… then work out the tax. They assess you on gross income not in your hand so it makes it worst as these is done on funds you never see. It is a very not fair system … reality it is the failed child support system from USA many years ago. and it has failed here but they dont actually care as it brings in heaps for the government. … GOOD LUCK… you have my support

  17. Jeez this is so unfair…have messaged Michael Bott an Andrew Little…lets hope they can help…

  18. carlos says:

    I have skim read through the posts and get the gist of whats going on here. I was Liable parent for many years – paid in excess of 100k all for my two sons – Its was heart breaking at time – demoralizing , depressing a whole lot of stuff. I have a dept to pay still despite the fact that my youngest son is now 21 and my oldest would have been 25 if he were still alive.

    The debt came about as I was living in Brisbane – I worked over there for 18 months from 2004. the debt was because I could not pay the full assessment of $1350.00 per month for 3 of the 18 months I was there. The reason being was because I was paying the money to have access with my sons for those months. The ird laughed at me when I applied for a review.

    in 2006 I opted out of everything due to the absolute futility of it all. (details of which are outside of scope of this post – they were serious.) went on the sickness due to ongoing depression etc related to many of the issues father speak of on here.

    I am now a student and continue to pay 21.00 per week and its hardly going down at all.

  19. Downunder says:

    And if you don’t have you child tax and your student loan paid off by the time you are 65 they will deduct it from your pension.

  20. glad i’m not the only one with this drama. System is so dated and broken, my assessment this year was 414.00 per week. LOL come on guys who the hell can afford that!? I have a new mortgage and my living costs are the same as when I was renting.

    GOD DAMMIT FIX THIS YOU CON ARTISTS, I’M COMING TO GET YOU RAWR…

  21. L DWhitney says:

    Help, I live in the UK and have received a telephone message from IRD New Zealand asking me to call them regarding child support. I left NZ 18 years ago where my x hubby had custody of our two boys then 10 and 6. I was not aware that I owed any child support payments and never received any letters from IRD to this effect. Now they are saying I owe around 40 000 NZ dollars including interest covering all these years. My view is that they can’t pursue a debt if the recipient was not aware of it in the first place and my x and I shared financial responsibility of the boys plus I brought over my youngest son at the age of 14 where he lived,with me till age of 27. what can I do to challenge them?

  22. Downunder says:

    One would assume that at some stage x-hubby was receiving the domestic purposes benefit and you were named as the mother?

    Then assessed at an arbritrary rate since you were out of the country, and have incurred substantial penalties over the years.

    IRD will do what they want whether it is legal or not and leave it up to you to prove otherwise.

    They also monitor this site so be careful what you say in your comments.

  23. Man X Norton says:

    L DWhitney (#21): A lack of notification or invoices concerning so-called ‘child support’ has not stopped others from being charged for retrospectively assessed obligations. However, it will be worth arguing this matter and it may be possible to get a Court ruling in your favour concerning this. You might at least have penalties or interest removed from the total.

    Another issue is the agreement you had with your ex. If you have any correspondence or other evidence (such as friends who heard you make a verbal agreement) showing you had both agreed to a private arrangement for supporting the children, then get that evidence together and be ready to produce it. Also, get records together of all money you sent or expenditure you incurred in assisting with the children’s upbringing. Again, other cases have often allowed IRD to ignore any such private arrangement. When the greater parent needs more money to maintain his/her lifestyle and decides to deny that the lesser parent previously contributed or that there was any private arrangement, IRD will often collude with the greater parent. Even when the lesser parent provides receipts and other hard evidence of his/her contributions, IRD have been allowed to ignore those contributions by labeling them voluntary and additional to the so-called ‘child support’ obligation. However, by providing hard evidence in Court this makes it a bit more difficult for IRD to behave in such dastardly fashion.

    Your payments, or a proportion of them, for the children’s travel or your own travel in order to spend time with your children may be taken into account as contributions, especially if you have evidence that you and your ex agreed this expenditure was necessary to maintain your contact with the children.

    Aside from these approaches, you will be able to offset some of your assessed obligation by claiming for so-called ‘child support’ that your ex owes you for your son while he lived with you from age 14 to age 18, and possibly beyond if you can argue special circumstances requiring you to continue supporting him after age 18.

    You will probably need to apply for an Administrative Review. It’s a good idea not to provide IRD or the Admin Review officer with your details or the actual evidence you have. That will only give IRD an opportunity to find legal ways to invalidate or ignore your evidence. It’s better simply to inform IRD that you have the evidence, e.g. “I have receipts amounting to $xy for travel to maintain contact as agreed with my ex”. Don’t complete the forms they send you asking for your bank balances, assets and so forth. IRD can obtain UK tax records of your earnings and that’s all they are entitled to. If IRD do not come to a satisfactory arrangement with you through the Admin Review, then take it to Court. Court is the only useful place to bring out your detailed evidence that will contribute to the judge’s decision on the day.

    There is reason for optimism in your case. Being a female you are much more likely to be treated fairly, even leniently, by NZ IRD than if you were a male.

  24. OMG You're (&*)^*( says:

    To L D Whitney.
    Child Support has been around in NZ longer than your children. Did you fully expect to leave NZ and not have a CS responsibility? In this modern age of data matching and CS recovery (I am sure it is not that different from one western country to the next, although reciprocal arrangements are still a while-away), did you not expect a CD collector to come knocking? Why did you leave NZ? Surely not to minimise your obligations… and as a mother? Do mothers ever walk away from their children?
    No, there is more to this than you let on.
    History aside, You say you shared expenses. Really? 50/50?
    So after 18 years IRD tracked you down. You stayed put all that time? No? You Moved periodically? You kept IRD NZ informed of your address changes?

    Well welcome to the male experience. How many men have contributed directly, only to be clobbered by the IR machine, who take no cognisance of ‘shared care’, no cognisance of non-custodial parent expenses and cheques to the custodial parent, who are more concerned with ‘cost recovery’.
    Pardon me, but how often have we heard about men being charged with CS evasion (not a literal crime, I talk metaphorically), by IRD, and please cough up or we’ll knee cap you next time you fly anywhere, and think not twice about bankrupting you 0nn the process. Whose punitive penalty regime drives some men to absolute despair and even suicide.
    Get real. This is the world that feminists have created. Men abandon their children (apparently), and their wallets must pay! They set the rules. They set the CS regime. They chased these allegedly dead beat dads half way across the world. They ignored private arrangements, and unless you could prove your innocence, charged you backdated CS on top of every cheque you wrote in favour of your shafted misses and her children. They decided to chase dad’s the world over.
    And so their net catches the odd reversed situation? The one in 100 or maybe 1000 woman who is similarly charged with financial abandonment under the catch-all net they cast against escapist non-paying fathers?
    Well belly-hoo. Cry your crocodile tears.
    Mortgage your life and pay up. Just like the femi-nazi expect hunted-down men to do.

  25. Man X Norton says:

    Fair enough OMG, but I believe our so-called ‘child support’ system is immoral and child abusive. That applies regardless of the gender of its victims.

  26. Dori says:

    Thanks for feedback now have a view on how to move forward

  27. DJ Ward says:

    #22Downunder says:They also monitor this site so be careful what you say in your comments.
    You meen they’re listening? NO! it can’t be true.
    Surely thier high moral position would have made them hand themselves in by now.

    But rejoyce, Minister Joyce has come to play. MR FIX IT.
    These things don’t count, its about the economy!. It’s (appoligist crap) looking good, i’m sleeping well but it could get worse, if something happens to the economy.

    Economy? How about people just learn to count first. Its pretty easy Mr Joyce. Something missing from what you were taught as a little boy? or just media expertise?
    Do you think I labled this entity an Organised Criminal Group just to score a point against others?

    Heres something for those that cling to the bridle of this flogged out horse. Trotted out as moral, yes a buitiful thourobred, fast, powerful, unstopable. Pity this just involes running in a circle with no moral compass. Cant work out?, like an adict, how to go strait.

    Lets start counting. Not the cost, but this erronous thing, actual money.

    Lets firstly establish establish what we are measuring. Dead Beat Dads.
    The indefensible.
    Yes, those that abandon thier responsibilitys, purposfully getting women pregnant and leaving them to fend for themselves. Mostly little girls, and young women, defenceless, succuming to the trickery and desires of men. Clearly they forgot to take thier male pill this morning. So he must have got pregnant on purpose, without her consent.

    Lets say just for Mr Joyce we keep the maths simple and representative (lets not bitch about the $9999 vs $10000 thing). 2000 young men each and every year for the last 25 years hopped on a plane and waved goodbuy to NZ. Thats 50000 lost citizens.

    If each of those 50000 young men(with a lifetime of working and supporting thier families/taxes ahead of them) were to earn $50000 dollars a year. Sounds alot for an average, but these are the Deadbeat Dads that have got get up and go, and have gone, not to return. The rest are on the dole, to broken to work (sickness benifit), clogging up our prisons, or just to beaten down and bewildered to notice that they are part of an ideology. An act of Slavery.

    50000 times $50000 is $2,500,000,000. Sounds like alot. 2 point 5 billion dollars of direct, non trickled down GDP, sounds like alot. But have you worked out I’m leading you astray. Yes its worse, much worse.

    When a young man flees like a refugee, from this campain of Terror, of Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, and acts of Genocide, they don’t flee because they are returning later to do the right thing, they flee forever. They will be arrested at the airport if they did. 40 years later the escaped slave retires.

    $2,500,000,000 times 40 is $100,000,000,000. It’s like Doctor Evil, “I wan’t 100 billion dollars, cackle, cackle”. But have you worked out i’m leading you astray. Yes its worse, much worse.

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