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Wed 20th January 2016

If you were arrested would you trust Police or trust a lawyer?

Filed under: Domestic Violence,Law & Courts — dunnuffinwrong @ 1:17 am

May 3 2014, I was assaulted at 7 am by my former partner. A blindsided whack to the head, then whipped with the cord from her laptop charger before a large wall mirror was swung at me.

At 9 am that sunny Saturday morning I was arrested without question- charged with MAF by two policeman one from Philippines one from Punjab India. Neither spoke English very well as I only realised I was being arrested after a little speech by the Indian cop from which I was able to make out the words ‘court of law’.
I was allowed to close the windows and put on some shoes while the Indian took photo’s of the broken pieces of mirror still on the carpet in the hallway.
After being told I was charged with Male assaults female.
I said “no assault occurred to her”.

I was frisked next to the cop car while my neighbours pretended not to notice and I was taken to central and sat alone for two hours on a concrete seat.
Then again the Indian cop appeared and told me it was time for a video interview. After which I would be put in a cell for the next 50 hours.
I asked to speak to a lawyer before I made a statement.
The cop preferred that I made a statement first but eventually relented and led me to a very small room with a phone in it and a list of lawyers.
A sharp sounding lawyer answered my call.
I told him I had been attacked and that I was charged with MAF and police intended to put me in a cell till sometime Monday.
He asked if Id been arrested before, I said no and that I haven’t assaulted anyone and this was what his advice was.
He said ” If your charged with MAF it means male assaults female and if your found guilty in court it can have repercussions through the rest of your life.
If you have been charged and you have not assaulted anyone then you are either being stitched up by your accuser or police or both.
Unless a proverbial lightning bolt strikes this charge will remain until court which may be some months from now”.
He Continued “While police work from assumptions or presumption Judges do not, they only consider evidence. If you have not assaulted anyone then police can have no evidence, so you will- almost certainly be found not guilty. My advice to you is this…
Be aware that if you haven’t committed any crime police will still be looking to find some evidence that you have, if you make a statement to police they will only be seeking to find something in your statement that they can use against to support their assumptions or accusations against you, you have no idea what you have been accused of so its best to wait till next week and sit down with a lawyer when you have the paperwork called “initial disclosure” that you will receive next week detailing the accusation.
I strongly suggest you tell them that you do not wish to make a statement so you don’t give them the opportunity to have evidence against you”.
“You will have to sit in a cell until Monday regardless of if you make a statement or not”.

This more or less made sense to me although it wasn’t what I wanted to hear, when I hung up the phone I asked the Indian cop “Is it true that regardless of what I tell you in a statement, I will be put in a cell till Monday”?
He said “yes”.
He asked me to read the notes he had made in his notebook and sign that it was correct.
I read the notes which was just about the fact that I’d been arrested.
I said “This says that I said that ‘no assault occurred’ when my words were ‘no assault occurred to her but he refused to change it so I refused to sign it and took the lawyers advice and made no further statement and sat in a cell alone, bruised and frustrated.
Two reoccurring thoughts dominated the time I spent sat quietly.
The first was – would my accuser recant the accusation as although she had never been violent to such an extent, it wasn’t unusual for her to be agresive and then totally sorry a few hours later not knowing what came over her. (common with borderlines I now understand).

The second was how easily I could have left the police at the front door, left by the back door, over the fence through the abandoned kindergarten then around the golf course at hagley park, up Fendalton rd, through Monavale gardens and doubled back to my van to get my boots to play my second game of the season for Western over 45’s. I had been training hard and this was the first fine weekend for six weeks. The game was to be a grudge match against the teams old nemesis and I was gutted to let them down. I could’ve just wandered into the police station on Monday morning telling them I didn’t recognise or understand these two tiny Asian men at my door. But considering my bruises I wouldn’t have been much good.
I was bailed from the court house Monday afternoon around 2pm. I had been given orders never to return to the apartment that I’d leased, and my possessions therein were no longer my right.
I was ordered to be homeless. I was told I had two hours to collect my work van which I found to be packed to the ceiling with the contents of my garden shed.

A long nine months later after thousands of dollars donated to a lawyer I had a defended hearing in court that took less than a minute.
Police finally admitted “no evidence’ and the charge remains on record as ‘unproven’.
There was no opportunity for me to speak.

I have been trying since then to bring the matter up with police-As yet to no avail but I will keep trying, I’m treated as an ‘annoyance’ at central station these days.
Even though my accusers statement said the incident began when she hit me (because I wouldn’t answer her) and admitted to the assault with the mirror ,violent crimes against men don’t matter somehow.
Police now tell me I should have made a statement and that’s why the situation was all my fault.
They say I would likely have been un-arrested..

Lawyers should not be trusted according to them.

Was I wrong?

What would you have done in that circumstance? Trust police and make a statement or trust a lawyer?

What can change making it less likely to happen to other men assaulted but accused? (by the same woman or others)

Which is worse, overzealous police incriminating men knowing they have no evidence or lawyers out for easy money? Or Both?

I never saw my accuser again or my possessions.

I never played again for my team or heard from them.

I guess its presumed that the lawyer- “got me off”.

18 Responses to “If you were arrested would you trust Police or trust a lawyer?”

  1. Careful says:

    Lawyers in police list usually work for police. Police list lawyers in Finland means corrupted lawyers. You should have own lawyer for cases like this.

  2. phil watts says:

    Your lawyer sounds like one of the better ones.

    I have found out that like psychopath con men invented the ‘government’ (mafia) con and the ‘religion’ con, the ‘domestic violence’ con, the feminism con, the ‘protection’ order con, the ‘police’ ‘force’ con and the ‘legal’ (unlawful) system and ‘society’ cons to enslave us.

    i recommend finding on utube the videos regarding ‘the story of our enslavement’ stefan molynioux is one of the best, along with ‘9/11 in 5 mins’.

    I anyone can breach our fundemental unalienable 5050 parenting rights then we are slaves. its as simple as that.

    by phil watts
    on facebook,
    creator of ‘NZ Men Fed Up With Family Court’ page and the ‘nz men….founder’ pages

  3. phil watts says:

    The nz govt police state & corrupt judges have held my children hostage without any free comms with me for four years despite the fact i have never harmed the ‘protected’ mother and my children.

    the nz police thugs have kidnapped me four times despite the fact i have never harmed another human being.

  4. JR says:

    Reading opening paras I thought you must’ve been arrested somewhere in Asia. Totally agree with Careful above. Our criminal injustice system is a little club comprising cops, lawyers and judges all of whom are on the same side and that is not the side of the arrested accused. In the circumstances you describe you probably had grounds for a claim of “wrongful arrest” but when you consider how many millions of taxpayer dollars our illustrious National government ministers are prepared to spend to avoid paying compensation to Bain and Pora what hope is there for little guys like you and me. The system sucks but that ain’t gonna change.

  5. Downunder says:

    Thanks for this post.

    I wish more men would find their way here and write about their experience as you have.

    This is a very good example and explanation of our deteriorating society, showing how the role of a modern police has changed within society.

    The original concept: the investigation, the gathering of evidence, the determination of an offence, the presentation of facts to a court, the decision of a court – has been severely corrupted.

    What we see now from our police, is a robotic response to stimulus.

    See this stimulus (upset woman) respond in this manner (persecute male).

    A man wouldn’t be human (and they call us emotionally illiterate) if this didn’t trigger an internal response: I’m being treated unfairly here – danger flag – don’t trust these people.

    There is no cognitive, rational response from a system that trains people to behave this way – it is a pre-determined thoughtless social process.

    As you rightly point out the ‘persecution’ from the police never made it to the court, no evidence was presented.

    No investigation of the behaviour of the police is undertaken. The police have effectively become the determining factor of a judicial outcome. The Police even go as far as looking for evidence to create a crime-that-never-happened.

    In reality there is an invention of a crime, that does not exist. The crime of the upset woman. This has been investigated, an offender has been located, there has been an attempt to create evidence rather than gather it, which didn’t succeed, but effectively there has been a conviction for a crime that didn’t occur.

    If this wasn’t so serious, ludicrous and dangerous Sherlock might say; “Was this just the crime of being a man at the scene of a crime that never happened, what do you think, Watson?”

  6. MurrayBacon says:

    I wish more men would find their way here and write about their experience as you have.

    This is a very good example and explanation of our deteriorating society, showing how the role of a modern police has changed within society.

    Very important comment. I didn’t really understand the comment that democracy needs to be continuously fought for. Having seen these types of events occur so often in NZ, I painfully undertsand this reality.

    Sheep never won anything, except the right to be fleeced.

  7. Man X Norton says:

    The list lawyer’s advice was sound. It’s almost always better not to give a statement to police. In this case, police should have asked you when they first arrived what happened and then made further decisions on that basis. (Even then, it’s often better to say nothing, just ask questions about the reasons for the police approaching you. However, what you say initially on your doorstep is not the same as a statement that can be used in evidence.) In this case, police simply arrested you and by the time they had done that and taken you to the police station there was no way anything you said would have led them to release you. Their one and only mission was to gather evidence for prosecuting you, and surprisingly often the only good evidence police end up obtaining is through what the accused tells them in a video statement or through the police written statement that the accused signs in that stressful, frightening, poorly considered situation. (That’s why the police in your case were so pressuring and manipulative, bordering on dishonest, to try to get you to give them a video interview.)

    Even more surprising, the most damning evidence legally is usually a clear though often unintentional admission in the formal police statement, but it can also arise from any inconsistencies that may arise between the accused’s statement and what he says in Court or elsewhere or and some other evidence they dig up. Giving the police a statement can only help the prosecution and is foolish unless specifically advised by a competent lawyer.

    People don’t know the complexities of the law. They may think something they say seems normal and innocent but they may be wrong. They may think they are being given a chance to convince police to drop charges but that’s simply not the case. The police only want to try and obtain evidence to present against you in Court and the most you can hope for is that you didn’t give them any (but even that can be used to portray you as a liar). Police are trained in interviewing techniques designed to manipulate your responses and to trip you up.

    Until a lawyer has seen the exact allegations against you and gives you advice about what response to those allegations is relevant and safe, say nothing and definitely don’t agree to any video interview. Anything you say WILL be exploited to use against you.

    Yes, it’s likely that police will resent you and try to punish you in various ways for daring to stand up for your rights not to say anything without legal advice. However, that’s usually a small price to pay compared with a false conviction and punishment. Also, it’s important to follow matters up, for example, keep pressuring police if a prosecution is not pulled when the evidence seems weak. Carry out every task, write every letter etc as advised and as dispassionately as possible.

    In this case, any reasonable and responsible police should at least have dropped the charges quickly (and indeed should not have laid them in the first place without checking out the evidence carefully). However, there is a dynamic operating in which police find ‘domestics’ a hassle and they ensure that at least one party, almost always the male, is put through the mill in an effort to discourage further bothering of police. Police don’t seem to care about justice, fairness or targeting the right person. If their actions force a male out of the house that caused them the hassle of a call-out, then that reduces the chance they will be bothered by that house again.

    A formal complaint to the ‘independent’ (hah!) police complaints authority would be a good idea as long as you don’t expect anything good to come from it regarding your particular case. Enough such complaints and there is a chance that the corrupt pattern will be seen to need addressing.

  8. Richie says:

    I wonder what would have happened if you had made the complaint to the police first? Would things have been different. I went through a 2 year ordeal where my ex partner acused me of assualting my children and my kids so alienated and brain washed after 5 years of being a weekend parent providing false statements to the police. They where 9 and 7 at the time so who knows what they had been told or believied to be true as I was unable to speak to them from that point on for 18 months.

    Anyway not to blah on about the detail to much surfice to say the police force are scum bags who will fit you up regardless of if they believe you did it. If you cant afford a decent lawyer at $350 per hour (who else would earn that sort of money?)you will get a legal aid lawyer who is sponsored by the government and will try and push you through the system as quickly as possible as they dont get paid enough to make waves.

    Anyway havent seen my kids for 2.5 years now. The last 1 year by choice as it is impossible to fight your ex wife and the state which has her back 100%. i have a new family now and do not want to risk them being taken off me.

    The thing that amazes me is the way that other people react to your situation. So many people are sleep walking thinking they vote they are the state the state is there for there benefit. Its certainly for me created a whole different view of people labled criminals by the state. I would suspect a large number of them could be alternatively labled victims of the state.

  9. bjrodger says:

    Absolutely not! The mere fact that police spend 40% of there time responding to allegations of domestic abuse, where the accusation is taken as fact and you face an almost automatic charge of ‘male assaults female’ because any female is always assumed to be the innocent victim no matter how bloody obvious she is not (bruises, scratches all over you, aggressive behaviour from her in police presence and you are arrested?!). Always protect yourself from the police and false allegations. As a male you are never innocent to proven guilty, it will be up to you to prove your innocence which is almost a complete logical impossibility.Keep your smartphone handy. Start filming whenever the faeces is about to hit the impeller. With luck your abuser will stop, probably not, but at least you will have some evidence.

    We are in desperate need of a list of gender-neutral lawyers men can trust. At the moment most a making a fortune from the DV and family court industry, and you are playing Russian roulette going to one (and paying through the nose for the privilege). Does anyone know of a list of safe lawyers for men?

  10. JnF says:

    Have you been to your local MP to see if they can get a responce from police – I would go to one National (Gerry) and pick one from Labour. It will be the secretaries that do the work not the MP, and sometimes they are effective at getting movement from govt depts, esp in your case when this is non political.

    Just wondering also about a private prosecution – if you can access the police statements confirming violence from your partner, and any photos or notes of injuries to you.

    Also wondering if it worth it to throw in a civil claim for possesions. Lawyers will be able to advise you, and get the senior ones for initial advice, the higher cost might save you from starting something that can cost a lot more.

    A Wellingtonian by the name of Graham McCready has taken several high profile cases such as John Banks, and my understanding is that this is a right to present evidence to the court, and if you win you will get paid back the cost of taking the prosecution either reimbursed by police or the culprit. I wouldn’t expect too much in the way of punishment, but this does embarrase the police as it shows them a) not doing their jobs, b) that they are not following the evidence and c) This is in full view of a judge they work with.

    It would be good if we had a mens group that could take this on, something desperatly needed is a service for male victims, that can use cases to highlight the problem and advocate law change, but as far as I know it is left to the individual.

  11. Man X Norton says:

    I would like to find a male and female who were prepared to act out a scenario that could be secretly filmed then publicized. The woman would phone the police to say he and her partner (the male actor) had been arguing, she was frightened of him and wanted him out of the house. When the police arrive, only the man has bruises and scratches (by make-up) and he alleges angrily that she assaulted him. At no stage does the woman allege any specific crime by the man. The police response will almost certainly be to ignore the woman’s offending and instead to issue the male with a police ‘safety order’, forcing him out of his home for some duration, and they will advise the woman to apply for a FC ‘protection’ order. The film of this would be a useful way of exposing police anti-male sexism. Does anyone know of a male and female who would be prepared to do this, with the risk of being prosecuted for wasting police time? There is a good chance any such prosecution would be successfully defended on the basis of the greater social good intended and achieved.

  12. Downunder says:

    The ideal way would be to have a film company rent a house, and have a couple move in, and start the arguing, so the neighbours call the police and the police inadvertently stumble onto the movie set.

    It would be great footage for the movie, when the actor is dragged off the set.

    Reminds me of the recent story where the Police attended a domestic and found the guy was yelling at his dog.

  13. Dunnuffinwrong says:

    Excellent comments and great ideas emerging.
    My thanks to you all.

  14. J says:

    No I would definitely not trust the majority of police/lawyers here. I’d rather not have to deal with them.

  15. DavidJJJ says:

    You took the right course of action, the lawyers advice was correct. Anything you said would of got you in a worse situation. There was no way to win that situation, only survive it.
    Police will take it through to the very end, trying to get you to admit something or plead guilty to a lesser charge they offer. This can take up to a year.

    Sad to say you are one of the lucky ones.

    She is free to repeat the same to you in future and to other men. Who knows how many times she has done this before? Look after yourself

  16. dunnuffinwrong says:

    Thanks again fella’s for advice about all that above. I’ve asked the same question elsewhere and so far I’ve not found a single person has said they would trust police not to attempt to incriminate him if accused of violence to a female.
    The (soon to be named) woman that accused me first went to our neighbours who were in their late eighties then to the police two hours later. She admitted to attacking me but said in a statement that i had retaliated. That I had thrown her to a tiled floor by the throat and repeatedly kicked and punched her while holding her to the ground. Only pausing to laugh at her before continuing to assault her. Until she got up and unhooked a wall mirror to assault me with. Then she fluffed around the apartment for about 20 minutes then went to the neighbours to the police and then the hospital where she told medical staff that she was unsure if she had been kicked or punched at all and suggested she had been dragged around the apartment by the throat. Doctors found nothing wrong with her throat , no bruising no split lip nothing at all yet police were happy to prescribe to a fantasy that a woman can be savagely repeatedly beaten by a man with no pain, injury or bruising being a plausible result.

    If a woman claimed her car was a right off because it had been smashed and rolled repeatedly yet it was totally undamaged would she be believed? I think not. What’s the difference? The car is not connected to a vagina.
    My neighbour had given police a statement that she had seen and heard nothing of what occurred yet police claimed she was a witness and forced her to come to court. Perhaps the prosecution was intent on manipulating her? She invited me for lunch a month ago and told me she wished she had the courage to tell the police to get stuffed especially as she was trying to look after her husband (who died the same month as the trial) and had already told them she had no information.

    I feel for the UK artist accused by the actress, currently being discussed on the other page.
    Media claimed they couldn’t release the woman’s name because of legal reasons but didn’t say what the legal reasons were. I suspect there were none. Paul Elam had no trouble naming her. ( I bet he phoned his lawyer first).
    I’m not sure which court dealt with it but we can be sure if it had been family court ( the main stadium of false accusations) the matter would not have been discussed by mainstream media.
    As for the woman I agree she was likely just wanting to get some fashionable victim attention, most likely has borderline personality disorder and decided that she was going to be assaulted that day.
    Borderlines are able to convince themselves of fantasised facts in the face of impossibility as I myself experienced that same year.
    Some women are nutbars and its time the police got up off their knees and stopped pretending that the obveously impossible is the most likely situation therefore a man must be punished just because the person telling them these lies, has a vagina.
    I’m all in favour of a nz false accusers database, I realise there’s possibilities of misuse and that many of these women get name surpression but not all do and I think it should be done anyway.I wish I had a good computer and the tech skills.
    Currently there is no accountability for false accusers at all and as women will be believed
    No matter how far fetched or impossible her story its an issue of public safety for those falsely accused and genuine victims of crime. Police are incapable of common sence yet they still refer to themselves detectives?
    Even when they’re caught out and discraced by their underhanded tactics they blatantly ignore their mistake and continue to blame the accused for his not trusting THEM?
    I also would like for police to be forced to acknowledge that the majority of the men accused of sex crimes are actually innocent therefore they are the real victims of cruel intentions and information should be passed to the accused about how to manage themselves through such a horrible situation accused and presumed to be guilty. (All they get is a leaflet which tells repeatedly to calm down). Its assumed any man given this leaflet is guilty of uncontrolled violent behaviour as that is presumed the default mental state for all men. If not all then certainly all who are accused by females.
    Any other kind of male assertions or even claims must be lies to protect themselves from others discovering their unhinging evil desire for violence to females.

    UK police did the same to Mils Mulaiena last year. There was no apology from the woman or from the police.
    Its time for a false accusers database and if anyone wants to be involved as a webslave or whatever I will happily be convicted in court for orchestrating the whole thing and choosing to name them as I see it my duty as a citizen to protect those around me when our government and police have shown they are unable to distinguish truth from obvious fiction because they have been manipulated by the ideological fantasies of feminists.

  17. Michael says:

    I am going through a similar situation but worse in that it has seperated me from my son altogether.

    Please get in touch. Anyone.

    Mike

  18. Downunder says:

    You’re already in touch with us Michael.

    Talk to us, tell us what is happening.

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