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MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Sun 29th May 2016

Suicide – A Male Mental Health Problem

Filed under: General — Lukenz @ 12:57 am

SBG

Saturdays Stuff article focused on suicide. In particular a 10 year old boy whom I won’t mention here. The article written by Laura Walters did not have a comment area.

One graph compared male to female suicides. In any given year male suicides each year are say 400+ while female suicides are about the 140 mark. There was no comment in the article about this.

So why do men kill themselves at a rate of 3 to 1.

The government says all suicide is a mental health matter. It comes under the ministry of health.

I see it as men have less protection than woman under the law and are treated more harshly.

• Men don’t have a say if their female partner wants to abort their unborn baby.
• If a man is bashed by his female partner. The man is usually arrested and not allowed to return to his own home.
• Men are much more likely to be barred from seeing their children if they are separated from their female partner.
• Men have their names released in the media if on trial for rape. Even sometimes before charges are laid.
• It is usually a man who loses much of his hard earned accumulated wealth in a divorce.
• It is usually a man who has to pay the woman child maintenance and the woman who does not have to work. On this point I could add that the ex female partner may be seeing a new man while the first man has to pay for it.
• If a man commits a crime his sentence can be twice or three times that of a womans.
• If a woman destroys a mans life by lying about being raped and she is found guilty. She is just usually charged with wasting police time or receives a very low penalty.
• If a man is found not guilty of rape he is likely to still, lose his job, his partner, family, friends, house (trying to pay for a defense), his savings, his future. He will have a mark against him and will not be able to apply for some types of jobs. There is no compensation for men being found not guilty of rape but there is compensation for a woman regardless if the man was found guilty or not. You just have to start from zero again.

These are just a few examples. I’m sure you can think of a few more.

And in recent days we witness a new law being drafted that will allow a woman to murder a man in his sleep if they think he may harm them.

So the question is….. Is suicide a male mental health problem?

I think suicide is not a male mental health problem. It is an abuse or unfairness problem. “It is a lets not consider the man.” Its a lets make it hard, unlikely or just plain impossible for a man to recover his life. It is a lets make the man pay for everything. Lets cut him down and destroy him. Even when he is not guilty. Or his ex wife just does not want him in his children’s life anymore because it may complicate her life or she just wants to get at him. Lets let the man watch his children being raised by another man. Yes that will get him really good.

It is the grief, anguish, heartache and distress caused by unequal laws and the unrealistic burdens placed on men who are often the victims but are never seen as such.

Men don’t need a 0800 phone number to call if they feel like killing themselves. They just need fairness and the be treated reasonably and justly.

But that is not going to happen anytime soon. What is going to happen is there are thousands of men going though crap right now and 400 of them are going to kill themselves over the next 12 months because they don’t want to live an unhappy life with no chance of getting ahead.

20 Responses to “Suicide – A Male Mental Health Problem”

  1. Man X Norton says:

    Good summary Lukenz.

    A more general issue associated with all the denigration and injustice you describe towards men is that many men find it difficult to feel they have a valued role in society. This despite the facts that men continue to provide the dangerous, body-wrecking services that maintain the infrastructure for our privileged lifestyle, and men’s wisdom and efforts have largely designed the technology and the very civilization that results in our privileged lifestyle. There is no rite of passage for males into valued adulthood. Even boys’ natural sexual development, rather than being celebrated and valued, has been sullied by feminist labeling of male sexuality as somehow unacceptable, disgusting to women and causing (the ridiculous concept of) ‘rape culture’. Girls on the other hand experience a rite of passage into adulthood when they get periods whereupon they experience at school a lot of respectful attention and information about this. Do schools give caring, respectful talks to sexually developing boys about their erections, ejaculation and attraction towards girls as signs of manhood to celebrate? Answer: Do pigs fly?

    Feminists in their quest for power and revenge have long been busy dismantling many of the fundamental principles that have enabled our civilization to succeed, for example, protection and privacy from state interference other than to enforce criminal laws, and basic principles of justice such as the right to be treated as innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. This results in confusion and uncertainty mainly for men about what is expected from them, what exactly the rules are. And, as you point out, the consequences of getting it wrong are severe on men.

    One last point. You write

    If a woman destroys a mans life by lying about being raped and she is found guilty. She is just usually charged with wasting police time or receives a very low penalty.

    The fact is that if a woman lies about being raped it is extremely rare that she will be charged with anything at all or held accountable in any way for her violence. You are correct though in pointing out that in the tiny proportion of cases in which women are prosecuted for making false allegations they are charged with a minor offence and punished for even less. The violence of false allegation is greater than many forms of violence for which men are sent to jail, but our society seems to see men as fair game for any female violence. Genuine consideration is currently being given to extending that to a licence for women to murder men.

  2. MurrayBacon says:

    Thanks Lukenz. The issues that you have listed are the adult issues, that usually are the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

    Commonly with suicide, they are lying on top of not properly resolved childhood issues, of some form or other.

    As women presently largely control children’s upbringing, then their performance as parents should come in for very serious questioning? The women who choose to be in this situation, too often have insufficient understanding of children’s needs. There is more to bringing up children, than just having enough money to feed them. The fact that some fathers and mothers can parent alone, does not mean that all of them can! Besides, chance things happen to parents and children should have the least disruption, if one parent should die or be seriously injured.

    It is important to remember that usually children take the best from both parents, even if there have been quite large disparities of time spent with each. So even if the children’s time has been cruelly restricted, make the very best of what time is available. In these instances, this is critical for the children’s welfare.

    At the very least, we should be questioning of the familycaught’$ willingness to go along with women unilaterally excluding fathers from their children’s lives. (Though also too often fathers too easily allow themselves to be excluded too.)

    In some cases, they have parented alone, due to their own inability to maintain a stable adult intimate relationship. Or the father might be unable to sustain an adult intimate relationship. Either way, the child often suffers developmentally and emotionally, when there has been a lack of two parents and wider family too.

    We certainly should look at the forces in our society that encourage adult relationships to break up and question whether they have any positive value?

    We should include in education, some feedback to potential parents, as to their levels of parenting and relationship skills, rather than let them find out by “failing”. Life is how well we live within our limits, more than just what the limits actually are….

    But at the end of the day, testosterone encourages risk taking behaviour. This leaves men markedly (x5??) more vulnerable to taking a snap decision and ending their lives. This could be for any short term reason that seemed sufficient at that moment. We should be encouraging of men to accept help. (It would help too, if help was available when it was asked for!! Also, that it was useful help, more than just “you do have a problem!”.)

    Even some degree of self interest for women might encourage them to show more care for men, in the light of the hard statistics. (I would guess that the differential between women’s and men’s suicides is considerably more than x3, as men have more opportunities to hide their suicides and risk taking behind industrial accidents, car accidents, sports accidents and the like.

    Even just the oxytocin value in sperm should be sufficient to encourage a little more care being given? (This is half joke and half serious…., so don’t take me too seriously! Some might argue that the cost of oxytocin is so low, that there is no point in putting up with men?).

    In the absence of more constructive management by Government, of these destructive social forces, the only positive hope lies in the education system.

    The destructive forces must be faced. The longer we leave it, the less social strength we will have to sort out these problems.

  3. Paul says:

    My children’s mother has.
    Done everything she can to have me removed from our children’s lives including
    3 protection order applications 2 defended successfully, the third I couldnt be bothered. $ 6,000 each to defend.
    Done everything possible to allianate me.
    Had a dead body hanging in her garbage
    Calls the highway 61 bar “a nice place” in front of her honor judge Ulrich.
    Counsel for the children submits “she has been arriving and leaving on several occasions you don’t want to know about your honor”
    Threatens me using her gang associations in open court In front of Her honor judge Ulrich and his honor judge Ellis ( a year later)
    Develops a methamphetamine problem
    Has bikers at our children’s house
    hasn’t shown any interest in schooling, homework, education.
    Porirua Family Court, seems to have no problem with that at all, mummy you tick all the boxes and we don’t like the way that father tells people about this process and our professional reputations are important to us.

    Anything happens to my son and they will never hear the end of it.

  4. phil watts says:

    paul please look me up phil.r.watts@gmail.com be aware the nz police state monitors everything.

  5. MurrayBacon says:

    New Zealand’s dirty secret (aka why I’m a raging meninist as well as a feminist)
    06/17/2016 06:14 pm ET | Updated Sep 14, 2016
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-zealands-dirty-secret_us_5764756de4b0ed0729a19bcb

  6. Jerry says:

    See on Stuff tonight: All about suicide, but not a mention that its a particular male problem.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/91507488/government-calling-for-views-on-how-to-lower-suicide-rate
    We don’t exist.

  7. Downunder says:

    You have to be old enough to remember this, but decades ago we had a serious problem with male farmer suicide, and copycat son suicides.

    The culprit was the big stick of the IRD.

    Once the problem, was addressed, and that was through media awareness, and the IRD was made to address its behavior, the suicides stopped.

    It’s a very simple equation.

    Since approximately 8 out 10 of today’s suicides are male, unless you address the underlying causes, and we know what they are … the numbers cannot decline by more than 2 out of 10 or perhaps slightly more if you address some causes of male youth suicide.

    When the system’s current behaviour has preloaded triggers for men, that are only now starting to appear, the numbers are guaranteed to increase.

  8. Jerry says:

    I’m just noting the artful way the (journalist??) avoids any particular mention of men. German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945 would be impressed.

  9. hornet says:

    3. Paul = Never react to Provocation – the legal Defence of Provocation was removed from the Law books in NZ – so conflict and provocation can flourish in NZ – this is a trap designed to get you arrested – forever labelled as a domestic violence offender with NO CREDIBILITY……
    Keep in touch with you son, visits phone calls and mail – don’t worry what your ex gets up to….to can not change that – all you can do is make sure you are always HONEST and TRUTHFUL with your SON…….

    The current system will NEVER change itself – it is a business – it needs Conflict to survive. That is the answer to WHY….WHY is the system harming kids and parents – because it MUST do so to create more business………….more funding more social services, more lawyers, more police etc……….creating MORE VICTIMS – More Vulnerable Children – who need more HELP in the future…..

    This is the LIE we are all ( men and Women and Kids ) currently faced with – we are offered HELP -but receive NONE…….so we must start asking the system to prove itself, prove it is actually HELPING PARENTS and CHILDREN??? Where is the evidence when so many walk away disgruntled and damaged……….

    We are promised protection as law abiding citizens – we accept governance on the condition that our safety and security is protected – and that the LAW will be applied EQUALLY to ALL…….

    Yet we are NOT seeing this happen – this is the case we all need to make with those in charge – WHY ARE YOU NOT PROTECTING CHILDREN AND PARENTS FROM HARM?????????

  10. Downunder says:

    What the propossed strategy targets by the tone of the article is women who attempt suicide, that’s why it’s ‘gender neutral’.

    Women often seek attention by deliberately failed attempts at suicide.

    From a male perspective it would be better to look at the absence of male adults as an exodus from the country and treat suicides as a percentage of that.

    The ‘man drought’ which the media treats as a joke, because women are missing out, is in the same way as suicide a rejection of society, but for some men, the ability to leave, or exit their situation is compromised by surrounding circumstances.

    The number of men that do kill themselves is relatively low by international comparisons and there is no political will to make substantial social changes to address that.

    Hence the politically charged maleless article, which hides behind gender neutrality.

  11. Ministry of Men's Affairs says:

    More men commit suicide in NZ than the entire road toll PLUS the entire murder toll each year.

  12. Downunder says:

    And when the leading European countries have reached their zero car-accident targets, we will still be watching politicians dance around the topic of male suicide.

    At least we now have the numbers published.

    Under the Clark regime they were a state secret.

    We got them though, only through the gullibility of a Ministry of Health employee. But that’s another story.

    We drew the comparison in that year, that it was the leading cause of male death, higher than the road toll or cancer.

  13. Downunder says:

    @9 The provocation you are talking about was not a statutory defence. Provocation was something the courts could, and still can, consider in sentences.

    The ‘Defence of Provocation’ that has been removed, was in relation to a murder charge being reduced to manslaughter.

    This opens the door for new legislation that would allow women to have a complete defence to a lesser degree of provocation rather than a partial defence.

    Historically courts dealt mostly with men and male conflicts. Now they deal a lot more with male-female conflicts. What you are seeing is a transition to feminist law, that is primarily concerned with stacking the cards in favour of women, which in their view is a just legal system.

    What you are also seeing is the feminist push to undermine the power of a jury and place that in the hands of judges.

    I don’t disagree with you in that there is a conspiracy to undermine our traditional legal system, there is, but you need to explain this better than you have above, or you will be treated with the same contempt as the average conspiracy theorist.

    Once the law does go down this path, unstable women, who are easily influenced by other women, will make the home a dangerous place for any man.

    We will have in addition to the suicide numbers, an increasing number of men killed in their sleep, or poisoned as we have recently seen. Biased unstable law will do nothing for the stability of society.

  14. hornet says:

    downunder…….check the crimes act 1961 and take note of just how many Crimes have been REPEALED ……the defence of provocation is but one of many……

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329317.html

    This is disturbing when and if you can grasp the fact the police no longer pay much attention to protecting citizens against CRIME……an historical protection of life and property, and preserving the PEACE which has been sidelined as more resources are focused on targeting citizens for Debt, Fines and Confiscation when you don’t pay……..

    To take away the tools once used by Detectives to protect society from CRIMES, destroying and dismantling the Crimes act is an example of this, and is but yet another example of the slow and insidious removal of Common law protections once given and provided by the police to citizens.

    Since the merger of Traffic stature collectors with Police men and women at common law – we saw the focus change dramatically from protecting life and property to targeting you for debt recovery ….taking life and property…..

    That has been the most significant culture change in the Nz police over the last 20 years – it has taken that long to remove all the good old common law police men and women……who were once there to help you………

    and thats no conspiracy…..thats a fact…….

    keeping mum and dad, man and women in perpetual – facilitated and encouraged conflict only benefits those who make a $$$$ from it……….UNITY is the only way to resolve this, and to demand a return to common law protections and enforcement……..

  15. Ministry of Men's Affairs says:

    Downunder #13:

    The provocation you are talking about was not a statutory defence. Provocation was something the courts could, and still can, consider in sentences.

    Courts can take provocation into account in sentencing, and when the partial defence of provocation was removed we were promised Courts would. But I challenge anyone to point to any case involving a male offender when provocation has been mentioned by the judge or reflected in the sentence. If such cases exist they will be a tiny fraction of those that involved real provocation.

    The saga on MENZ Issues in 2010 concerning Greg Meads was a case in point. We waited to see if the sentence would take into account the clear provocation involved. It didn’t and no mention was made of provocation. Yet when this woman murdered a male, our Justice Karen Louise Clark thought fit to apply law that doesn’t even exist yet to provide her with a legal partial defence and to treat her as having lower culpability (see also the post on MENZ Issues here).

  16. Downunder says:

    Propably a good comparison of then and now, if you can find it, is the case of Patrick Brown.

  17. Jerry says:

    Imagine a male in the exact same situation got global publicity like this?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11841659

  18. Downunder says:

    The writer protests this woman’s innocence.

    Wrongly accused and finally found not guilty.

    The mother lost custody of her children, not that the children were placed with the father for their own wellbeing.

    There’s always the subjective undertones of angelic failure.

  19. Ministry of Men's Affairs says:

    Jerry, #17: Quite right. Many male suicides occur in the context of Court-ordered or Court-condoned loss of contact with children but when do we read sympathetic articles about the men? An occasional woman suffers under the same laws that her sisters long ago demanded to persecute men and presto, an article about her sad tale is published.

    This woman chose to increase her drinking and drug abuse (rather than talking about the charges against her) and that appeared to be the reason she “had difficulties maintaining contact with the children”. The article implied her partner was at fault, but surely any responsible father would be concerned to protect the children from unpleasant or dangerous experiences with a drunk, drug-impaired or mentally unstable adult? Anyway, her difficulties maintaining contact could well have included her failing to turn up as arranged because of her substance abuse, or turning up in an inebriated state.

    Interesting too that the article provides no details about the sexual allegations against her. Contrast that with articles about acquitted males that usually regurgitate the allegations as much as possible.

  20. Jerry says:

    MOMA @19; Indeed, you are obviously right. I posted it knowing that there must be thousands of fathers in that position – and many of those really are falsely accused. Regardless pay a grave price. But those men won’t rate any mention of sympathy, let alone a rigorous trial by real evidence. Emotive gener-political propaganda now stands in the stead of Madam Justice.
    I look every morning and by my count, the avalance of hatred towards males grows every day. So much for journalistic balance. RIP genuine investigative journalism.

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