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My battle to see my kids, Advice wanted.

Filed under: General — joe bloggs @ 8:00 am Fri 11th December 2009

Hello All, I have been divorced 5 years and have been trying to get shared care of my two children now,8 and 11yrs for the last three years. My ex went ballistic when she found out I was going for shared care I think for two reasons. Firstly it would mean my $1200/month in child support would drop and secondly she would miss the kids terribly when they weren’t with her. They are her world. Anyway from that time she has manipulated the kids feelings towards me by telling them things I had supposedly done in the past which at best were gross exaggrations of the truth and at worst straight out lies that never happened.

We eventually came to a compromise 18months ago which saw me have ther kids 5 nights a fortnight plus a couple of afternoons a week. This went along ok until this time last year when out of the blue she applied to have all my contact with the kids ceased for various reasons none of which were true. This has led to a year of going back and forward to court. The kids were further poisioned by thier Mother to such an extent they refused to come on my days and as she was not encouraging them to come with me the whole parenting order broke down and become worthless. The children have had some child therapy sessions during the year but these were ineffective.

I have not seen my kids since March this year! There have been times I have bumped into them around town with thier Mother but they freak out and are quickly ushered away .I send them letters letting them know I still love them and try to call them but they refuse to talk to me. I am currently trying to get a hearing date so my lawyer can prove she is in breach of our parenting order so then the Judge will be forced to make a decision on what the contact arrangements will be going forward.

From my point of view any contact is better than none. The court process is extremely slow and I am extremely frustrated by what is going on. My ex is happy as she has the kids fulltime which I continue to pay for. My kids are happy that they don’t have to spend time with a Father who they are now scared of and who they consider to be a mean and nasty person. Which I am not and there is no evidence to support her claims that I am. All I have is a parenting order that isn’t worth the paper its written on. They are a complete waste of time when one party decides not to abide by it. Although her line on this is “I encourage the kids to see thier Father, but they don’t want to go. It has nothing to do with me” She knows very well that she has manipulated thier thoughts and beliefs about me to such an extent that yes of course they don’t want to come.

I know I am not the only person this has happened to and would like feedback on what my best plan of action may be. What have other people done in my situation and how has it worked out for them? My friends and family are saying stop battling with it and move on with your own life and eventually the kids will grow up and come back to you. How do I know this will ever happen ? This sounds to me like giving up and turing my back on my kids . Also it means I miss seeing them grow up and enjoy spending time with them like I have done since thier birth. But a part of me is wondering if this is what I have to do now. I have almost exhausted all possible avenues to try and get to see my kids and still have not got them.

In this country Fathers are suppossed to have the same rights as Mothers. The reality is the Mother still gets preference over the Father. The childrens lawyer says its a sad situation. The Judge says “yes” I should be seeing the kids but doesn’t know what is the best way to acheive this. It seems the Family court is all for sorting out custody disputes in a softly softly manner which is all good where two parties can work together,but in my case where she refusing to have anything to do with me and would probably prefer I didn’t exist the court just raising its hand and says this is too hard ! And of course the gem they have to rule by is ” Whats best for the kids”. Well society tells us that having a Father and a Mother in childrens lives is the best for all concerned.

As an aside to this is the child support issue. I have always paid the full amount I have been assessed on and while it is my biggest expense, I have always accepted this as just being the price you pay for a broken marriage. They are my kids and it is my responsilbilty to help pay for their upbringing. What I am questioning now is why should I have to pay this when I am am doing everything to be in my childrens lives yet it is they who don’t want to be with me? Why should I still support them when they don’t want anything to do with me? The kids and thier Mother want to cut all ties with me then that should include financial as well . I will always be here for them and if at a time in the future they want me back in thier lives I am only too happy to be there for them.

Any comments would be appreciated as I am really at the end of my tether on this. I feel upset, frustrated and tired by what I am having to go through. It shouldn’t have to be this way.

57 Responses to “My battle to see my kids, Advice wanted.”

  1. Peter says:

    Read Revelations.

  2. Henry says:

    Feel for you my friend.
    My ex won over me in similar circumstances and I will never see my kids before I die for sure. I married again and had two lovely daughters and that has been some comfort in a pretty grim world where mums are favoured over we males of the species.
    Get some quality adult love for yourself. It helps heaps.

    Burnt one, but now AOK within myself which is the important outcome.
    I did all that it was possible for me to do.

  3. SicKofNZ says:

    So…. what happened to all of the other comments that seem to have disappeared from this thread? Deleted by thread author? Deleted by Administrator? Deleted by hacker? Software glitch? Will it happen again?
    It would seem to be a waste of time commenting on this thread without an explanation.

  4. Morris says:

    I think when u had some form of custody, something had to have gone badly wrong. Did u treat them well..take them out, buy them some pressies, show them u love them?

    Your EX had to have some sound reason to breach the Parenting Order, otherwise she could have been prosecuted. Sure, I guess if she merely said that the kids simply didn’t WANT to see you, she might get away with that. And yeah, perhaps she did poison their minds. It is up to their lawyer to find out the truth, and hopefully they have a good one like my son did. RR was excellent and told my ex in no uncertain terms i had a right to be with my son, and he had a right to be with me. She burst into tears and stated she felt like she was losing her son.

    As you say, she might be scared of losing the money.$1200 a month is excessive. This is enough to not only provide all of the kids needs, its enough for her to put away a bit on the side. It’s always been my contention that both parents equally contribute to the kids financial needs, not just one. Its very unfair isn’t it? Why should you alone have to pay all the kids expenses and more when you can’t even see them?

    My son spents 50-60% of the time with me now, but I still pay ex more than $100 a week in Child Support. So she contributes zero toward his upkeep, yet lives a lavish lifestle, she works and lives with a high income partner.

    My advice is to continue lobbying to see your kids. If you give up, she will say you are not interested in them. Start slowly, start with seeing them twice a week say, and above all treat them well at all costs. This will do nothing for you finances, in fact u will be worse off than ever, but I think it is only in this way you can gain everyone’s confidence, and eventually your kids will begin to realise that you are a good Dad, rather than what your ex has purported u to be.

    I hope this helps..I know its not much, and I know all about the legal bills.

    Hang in there.

  5. Peter says:

    Over a period of six months, one of our teenage sons changed in very subtle ways e.g. he would refer to me as “mum” in the course of a conversation. I later found out that he had secretly been receiving counseling (brainwashing) at school. Soon after, ALL contact ceased. It has now been three years since I have seen them. My circumstances are unusual in that I was the primary caregiver for most of their lives.

    Family law exists purely for the benefit of the goddesses. I wasn’t even permitted to undertake proceedings for joint custody, political interference.

    God bless.

  6. Peter says:

    The only things they truely love is themselves and money.

  7. Gibby says:

    Don’t give up and ‘move on with your life’!
    That is the worst thing you can do. I have been through worse than even you have. I would be happy to get in contact with you and discuss this with you. The Parenting Order is not worthless. The first thing to do is apply to the Family Court to have the Order enforced. My disgusting ex wife tried EVERYTHING to stop me from seeing my Children, the longest length of time she managed was 6 weeks.It is possible so hang in there and Children will thank you for it.
    Some things you need to know.
    1.Don’t try and reason with her, she is money and power hungry.
    2.Don’t think that you will make it worse, it can’t get any worse for you and your precious Children
    3.Accept that it will take at least 2yrs and maybe $20000 or more to sort out.
    4.Always remember what you are fighting for,stay focused.
    5.Get advice from the many people who have been throught it.
    6.The Family caught does have good people within it, If you end up with a Defended Hearing as I did, and you get Judge Ryan, then you will be ok.
    6.Give the Family hating bastards out there nowhere to go, dont swear or raise your voice or anything that could be used against you.
    I was very accomodating to my ex, offering to pick up and drop off the Children,(to the point of making myself sick!) knowing she was too nasty and disgusting to take me up on the offer. In other words use her behaviour to your advantage, she can’t see through her own mental illness so make it work for you and document everything.
    I went from being accused of something that could have seen me land in jail, having 2 tresspass notices and 2 protection orders, as well as 13 notifications to CYFS in 5yrs, to shared parenting.
    It can be done.

  8. Steve says:

    I wonder if anyone in government EVER reads any of these articles. It would only be when ONE of THEM enters into the system that it will ever get changed! YES it always seems to be the battle over money and the system sucks definitely for the father! Seems like alot of ex-wives want to suck the living daylights out of their ex-husbands and do not want them to live happily-ever-after again. The whole system is unfair and unjust. Mind you we are all paying for every other Tom, Dick and Harriet down the road whose parent DOES NOT pay up. How about tracking down those culprits!

  9. I have periodically received threatening letters from IRD regarding my posts on this site relating to Child Support. I have also had my posts submitted or referred to in at least 5 Family Court hearings. It seems to be assumed by some lawyers that my participation here shows a lack of judgment.

  10. SicKofNZ says:

    I have a website with a handy piece of javascript embedded into key pages that lets me know where my visitors have come from and where they’ve gone after visiting my site. I tracked one such visitor that came from this site (MENZ) to mine and which traced back to the NZ Justice Dept.
    My ex-wife pays the minimum child support amount to me because she is on the D.P.B. Do you suggest that she pays the full amount while her two pre-schoolers starve?
    Do we allow fathers who are imprisoned to be released so that they can work and earn enough to pay for their children’s support too?
    Should all unemployed parents who can’t pay the full amount of child support be forced to pay so that they’re homeless and starving?
    Why not just get rid of no fault divorce, the D.P.B., CYFS, The Family Courts and every other drain on taxpayer’s funds instead of slurring those caught up in their male-hating processes?

  11. John Dutchie says:

    …..Tongue in cheek with my comment ‘SickofNZ’ I would like to rephase ‘NZ Justice Dept.’ to ‘NZ Feminazi Justice Dept’…

    John Dutchie

  12. mits says:

    I was right with you up until the we are paying for everone that doesnt pay line.
    That’s a red herring to try and show the IRD in a good light with the extortion of child tax.
    Look at what you pay and ask yourself what would be reduced in those payments if Child tax had a 100% participation. I think you will find that it wouldnt reduce at all.
    I personally know of several ex wives, my own included, who feel that they, not the children, are entitled to this money and knowing that it creates hardship for the father is icing on the cake. I pay my child tax and as Ive said before I pay more to help my children as the ex spends the child tax on herself. I know this as she gleefully informs me at every opportunity she gets. And even though IRD take the child tax straight from my employer they still make mistakes and I end up with arrears and penalties due to the inept system the use to extort this tax. And oh my god if IRD are slow at stumping up the cash to the Ex, well the indignant howls that she hasnt got her entitlement fill the air and all access and contact with kids now is on hold until monies have been sorted.
    I have told IRD this on several occasions when they have made an error, only to be told that child tax has nothing to do with access. Well I dont know about where the IRD people come from but it has a lot to do with it on my planet.

  13. Dave says:

    Joe Bloggs, you have options. Each option has significant costs and risks. Each option is valid. In no particular order:
    1. You can walk away.
    2. You can fight through the system.
    3. You can work outside the system.

    One thing you should be aware of. Many times they do not come looking for you when they are older. People will always tell you they will look you up later in life but in fact there is no guarantee of this at all. They may do. Whatever does happen it helps tremendously if you can be philosophical.

    First of all you should read up as much as you can about “parental alienation”.

    Secondly contact your local fathers group and get some help based on more information than you have provided here.

    Thirdly NZ Family Court orders are not worth as much as toilet paper. Toilet paper is far more useful. That is the reality but the NZ Family Court will never acknowledge that.
    However if you do use the system then there are some things I can tell you. The odd judge will eventually grant you full custody in cases like this. The few cases like that I know of for certain have occurred once the media got wind of it. The majority will claim they can do nothing – which is a complete white lie!

    You have court orders — right? If you are going to fight within the system. Then I suggest you do 3 things at the same time. Represent yourself but don’t work very hard to conform to court procedures. State at the top of every document that you are the children’s father and you love them very much.
    1. Work with the system to allow the system to prove it is capable and willing to enforce it’s own orders. The court will fail to prove this but you can collect evidence of this failure as you go along since it strengthens action 2.
    2. At the same time apply for full custody on the grounds it is a necessary arrangement so the kids can have a positive relationship with both parents.
    3. Make a private appointment to take the children with you to your own councillor (don’t use the court’s one). Do this at your own expense and don’t involve the court. Claim the cost back against child support. The sessions are to help rebuild your relationship with your kids. Make the appointments at times when you are supposed to have the children and send your ex a letter advising when the appointment is and what the sessions are for. No doubt she will prevent the children going. That is OK — just document it all and go to the appointment anyway. Pay your councillor and get receipts.

    The purpose of step 3 is to create a paper trail showing that you have tried constructive and conciliatory measures to make the existing arrangement work and to maintain a good relationship with the kids but that the ex undermines these measures.

    You have court orders. If there was any justice in the system you should be able to take those to the police or social services and have them enforced. In fact under law you can but those services refuse to enforce the law which means you have to apply for a warrant. As you do that I suggest you do the following:

    Create yourself a template or form of notification of breach of court order. Make up your own form. On the form quote the court orders including the reference number. Have fields for (a) which part of the orders have be breached in this incident and (b) the date of the breach. What you then do is fill this form out for every single incident where contact does not occur. You send this form to your ex and also to the court for filing. The purpose of this is to create a mountain of evidence of breaches of court orders. You are about to swamp the court with evidence to really drive home that they kids are missing out. Send these into the court every week or even more often. The court staff will talk about your file.

    The court will appoint a phycologist to write a report about the parents and the children. This person is your enemy. A very deceitful enemy which you must treat with complete politeness at all times. You have no responsibility to assist this person at all. My advice is to say only one sentence to the phycologist in answer to every single question they ask. “I love my kids and they need a relationship with both parents.” Repeat this sentence to every single question until the psychologist gives up asking anything. The exception to this rule is to allow the psycho to observe you being totally natural with your kids.

    After this the only thing the psycho can write about you is how they saw you interact with the kids and the one statement you repeated over and over. They wont have any other evidence to make any other criticisms of you. Hence when you get to court they wont be able to justify any criticism they may make. All they can really say is that you were unhelpful. So when you cross examine the psycho you get them to admit a. that you were only unhelpful towards the psycho, b. you went to your own councillor to assist rebuilding a relationship with the kids and c. that one does not have to be helpful towards the court appointed psycho in order to be a good loving parent. Suggest to the court appointed psycho that perhaps there was a personality clash between you two since you are obviously more than willing to engage with your own councillor. Perhaps the court appointed psycho doesn’t like you? Suggest that the court appointed psycho would have to be super human not to have their judgement clouded by this personality clash you had. Hence little weight can be placed on any criticism of you.

    The lawyer for the children (C4C) will have little interest in whether the children maintain a relationship with you. However they will want to be seen to be interested/concerned. Just be polite to the C4C but expect them to be useless for your kids, at best. Don’t waste any time with them. Expect them to be polite, unhelpful and useless. The best you can expect from them is to not also be obstructive. Occasionally they may put in a good word for you so they can be seen to be doing their job.

    Personally I think you will get further if you get some media involvement. Perhaps the local father’s group can send in a reporter to start poking around. Also get your local MP involved. Sometimes they are willing to write a letter. Basically this is creating external pressure to get them to do something and not stick it in the too hard basket.

    Most of all look after yourself and best of luck.

  14. noconfidence says:

    ‘Joe bloggs’…. send me an email. I will explain how to beat the system. I’m not publishing it on here, but I do know that if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em….. and you can win….

  15. joe says:

    thanks for your constructive comments I will take what you have said on board although I am already doing many of the things you have mentioned.

  16. joe says:

    Thanks for your comments. No I did nothing bad for her to prevent them from seeing me. She just has issues with me and won’t let go of the past. I would like to start seeing them slowly but they do not talk to me or even want to see me so that is pretty difficult. I go to court on friday so try and sort out with the ex what if any time I will get with the kids on Xmas day and the school holidays. She probably won’t turn up as its only a pre hearing conference. So not holding my breath for any good news.

  17. joe says:

    Thanks for your advice. I am trying to get to a hearing where we can prove she is in breach of the order. Until that happens nothing will change. Only at the hearing can the judge make a decision about what will happen going forward. This has been delayed again so it looks like February will be when a hearing date comes up. I know she won’t change and that is why it will take a Judge to rule on it.

  18. joe says:

    Thanks I have been trying to work on myself but its hard when you think of kids everyday and that just brings me down again.

  19. hornet says:

    UNless there is a significant overhaul of the families act – which looks at the following – we are NOT EVER GOING TO GET ANY FAIRNESS OR QUALITY TIME WITH OUR KIDS! I share your concerns as I am in the middle of a similar 7 year battle to see my daughter.

    1. Laws or codes of conduct for the legal profession, which prohibit Lawyers from allowing the controlling parent to engage in bad behaviour. – which appears to be supported by the lawyers because its great for business.

    Currently there is NO consequence of behaving badly towards your kids or turning them against in many cases – the DAD.

    The Legal system must address this issue. Problem for most of us Fathers is that the Lawyers are part of the problem and are NOT going to change a system which keeps them very well employed – meantime the children suffer big time.

    2. Changes to specific sections of the ACT, which will automatically allow evidence to be admitted where it concerns a childs welfare – recently I had to make applications – taking many months just to have evidence of a court appointed specialist admitted, when this very evidence related directly to my childs welfare and should have been admitted without contest and as a matter of process.

    Keep your head up and keep working towards seeing your children – that is your right!!

  20. hornet says:

    exactly, the entire child maintenance system is directly linked to access – in fact I would go so far as to say the GOVT dont want to change it because there would be more people applying for the benefit – it suits them to have dads go without seeing their children, so these BAD mothers can defend their 60% access threshold like their lives depended on it – there was a time when I paid the maximum and did not care about the money – I just wanted to see my kids…..but the system does not support that……if this 60% 40% split regime was removed – it would immediately remove the kids from being used to elicit money…..children are not pawns as the current system allows to be held over as demands for money take place – that is what is currently happening and it stinks….again this will not change until MEN unite and start applying for changes to the current legal system and the ACT which allows this. Child Maintenance payments and ACCESS to your children needs to be formally linked to a system, where if you stop a parent from seeing their kids, or act badly in allowing peaceful quality time with your kids, then you DO LOSE your right to getting Child maintenance – then see who quickly alot of this bullshit stopped!! Cant have that though – you have a Government in huge DEBT, and Lawyers who depend on the conflict to fill their pockets…….so the system aint going to change any time soon…..

  21. Dave says:

    Could you imagine a more barbaric system than where the children are being alienated from the father and the system wont even bother to make the smallest effort before Christmas? How can this system be considered civilised? Such a situation would not occur in a pre-civil society except by force of arms.

    It seems to me that Joe Blogg’s case is as good as any example of how the Family Court operates. Without knowing the full details of his case I feel very strongly that this case should be exposed in the media (names of children and parents withheld).

    Of course that is entirely up to you Joe. It’s just my personal view. If you don’t trust the mainstream media, I could put you in touch with someone who could create their own video documentary (which would ensure you maintain complete anonymity).

    Joe, I certainly would appreciate being updated on the details of what happens from this point forward.

  22. joe says:

    Thanks Dave, I’m quite happy to keep you informed. I have thought about the media, even my lawyer suggested it may be a good option. Something he said he has not advised before to others, so he can see the unfairness in my case. I don’t want to put my kids through any more drama though so are leaving the media as a last resort. Although the idea of doing it in a completely anonymous way does appeal but don’t know if it would have as much impact.

  23. Dave says:

    Without knowing the full details it seems to me that the family court is hoping you will give up and so the case will go away.

    If that is a fair guess then I’d say now is the time to go to the media. Alternatively there might be something to gain by waiting another 2 months. I don’t know enough to advise you.

    It definitely must be anonymous. This is important for 2 reasons. (a) so your kids can’t be identified and (b) the family court lacks the professionalism to accept criticism.

    Having said that the family court also realises that it’s own survival is threatened by the widespread lack of confidence in that institution. Hence they will bend to media pressure. They just don’t want to be seen to be influenced by the media.

    In any case the CoC act restricts the publication of such details while a case is active in the court.

    You would only breach anonymity once you are sure you have nothing else to loose and the court case is either closed or hopeless.

    Another point to note. Once you do go to the media I recommend that you either lie or else refuse to confirm or deny anything to do with the media to anyone inside the system except your own lawyer. I wouldn’t bother your own lawyer about it unless they ask either.

    If questioned, first tell them such a line a questioning is distressing to you. Then just tell them that if there is any media interest in this case (and that has not been proven) then it has nothing to do with you as a parent. Neither does it have to do with determining what is best for the children and hence you have no comment on what the media may or may not be involved in. Tell them point blank it is unprofessional and totally insensitive of them to discuss any media commentary with you, in front of you or in court records. Particularly since you are a parent who is being estranged from his own children. This should make them back off quick smart.

    If it doesn’t then ask them how do you go about making an official complaint about their line of questioning and you are too distressed to continue today.

  24. Dave says:

    If you do not have regular contact with the kids occurring by the new year then I’d throw everything at them. Go to the media and apply for full custody at the same time.

  25. Steve says:

    Gees,Yes I am going through the same crap,But to hear your story really makes me sad.What sort of system and world are we living in for Gods sake

  26. Steve says:

    Amen,Thank you so much for that glimmer of hope to us men

  27. Steve says:

    I am screwed at the moment ,I have a protection order ,Unprovoced and I breached it,Unknowingly .So not sure <I guess I have to prove myself for a while before I fight back now.Why do women go so dam EVIL

  28. joe says:

    My friday court date sorted nothing. My ex was not there and nothing about Xmas or holidays even got mentioned. Instead the Judge quizzed my lawyer saying what did he hope to acheive by going to hearing? We said we needed a decision to be made by the court to resolve this. Also we need to prove my ex is breaching the current parenting order. The Judge said he understands how I feel and yes we could go to hearing which now will be in March 2010 at earliest, and yes he may well order some contact to occur. What he then said was he can do all this but if the kids still did not want to come with me what had all this acheived as we are right back to where we started a year ago. He can’t make them come. Yes I could apply for warrants but I have done that in the past and it isn’t nice on the kids and didn’t solve anything. I asked him then what is the outcome for me in these sort of cases as it seems he was telling me that he has done all he can do and the family court cannot do much more. He said one of three things will happen. Over time 1.the kids will come back to you by thier own accord, 2. they will never come back to you,3. keep sending them letters , birthday presents ,try to call them and eventually they may come back. I left court dejected and wondering if it has now got to the stage where I do have to step back and see what happens. My lawyer said legally our next move is to go to the High court and get another judge who will make a decision as this one obviously isn’t keen in case he gets it wrong and gets reprimanded in the future. I said to my lawyer thats all very well but the judge does have a point . If I do get some contact ordered through the court how can it be enforced if the kids don’t want to come? It can’t!

  29. mits says:

    I cant help but think of what Hornet said. Link Child Tax to access. I have an inkling that if the mummy wasnt going to get her cash then it would be amazing how quickly the kids would suddenly find that “youre going to your Father’s now!!!”
    As to the Family caught this is just another reason why it should be avoided. The Judge whos getting paid understands how you feel and at some later date he may or may not do something ineffectual which may or may not help. What a useful bunch of highly paid wankers they are.

  30. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Steve….Steve might I suggest you read the book ‘A City Possessed’ this relates to Peter Ellis case ….Then you will understand how good N.Z Men and good decent and decent N.Z Fathers have been ‘Demonized’ by the Kiwi Social Engineering Feminists in New Zealand……I wish you all the best

    John Dutchie

  31. Dave says:

    Well actually it can and it does. They are 8 and 11 years old after all. Watch how quickly and decisively it moves if there is even a hint of alienation against the female parent.
    (1) In a sense the court has admitted it can’t make the existing arrangement work. Therefore there is a case for you to have full custody so that the children can have a positive relationship with both parents.

    There are precedents for this.
    The one that comes to mind is where the mother was couching the children to say that the father molested them. He was tried for child abuse before the truth came out. The children were placed in his full custody and they only see the mother under supervision.
    There are other less extreme cases. Your lawyer should be pulling all these out of the records or they are not doing their job.
    (2) My personal view is that you should get the media and parliament involved. Just do it in a deniable way. I think if someone from the media was reporting on this case the outcome will be completely different than the court simply doing all it can to wash it’s hands of the situation. If you have a hearing in March the judge will probably reserve his decision. Basically nothing will change until mid next year. Then the judge may just say a few platitudes and basically do not very much. I would definitely expose the case in the media at that stage.

    (3) As I said at the beginning walking away is a valid option. So is fighting. There are ways you can fight this. However I don’t recommend spending much money on lawyers. Do you think you could represent yourself? What city are you in? You can contact your local father’s group and they will give you a lot of help to represent yourself.
    (4) Most importantly, stay strong inside yourself. Do you have friends and family around you over Christmas? What city are you in? Could you use a beer with someone who has been through similar stuff? You are not alone in all this.

  32. joe says:

    To Dave, I’m a bit confused by your comments on the 17th about dealing with the media. How do I tell them my story without actually saying anything ?? In answer to your points posted this morning.
    1. Yes I may have a case for full custody but it would be a big call from a judge to hand them over to me when they don’t want to be with me. That would seem to go against the main objective of the Family court of doing what is best for the children. Although I agree it would be best for them to be with me. My lawyer has informed me of a case like the one you mention ,it may be the same one.
    2.Like I have said media involvement is my last resort although that appears to be fast approaching.
    3.I live in Invercargill. We have no fathers groups down here. I have talked to my MP but he didn’t have too many answers but did take it on board.

    4. Yes I will be with family just not my kids!!

  33. noconfidence says:

    I like the beer idea. Might be a way to give each other a pat on the back. I’m in Auckland and I represent myself at the FC with success so far (though it ain’t over yet!)

  34. Dave says:

    “How do I tell them my story without actually saying anything ??”
    (a) It’s not that you don’t say anything. It’s that you maintain denability.
    (b) You get a 3rd party to approach the media and to give details of the case.
    (c ) You talk to the media directly only on the condition that they give you a written guarantee that your identity and the identity of your kids is kept confidential. This is in line with the CofC act anyway so it shouldn’t be an issue for them.
    (d) You get a father’s group to leverage the media to create the most impact. There is a guy in Tauranga who knows how to do this.

    P.S. I suggest you contact Paul in Palmerston North. His case many years ago is very much the same as yours today. He can be contacted via Paul’s News. He would no doubt have some sage advice for you. My situation is similar to yours but his was more or less the same.

  35. tren Christchurch says:

    Do not blame yourself.
    Inherently protection orders are made to be breached. Breaching them is embedded in their design. Not your fault ever. A person requires iron mentality to avoid breaching them. They are a perfidy. They do not protect, on the contrary they endanger lives. Up to now fathers, somehow gave the law a fair go, but it became apparent that the law is made-to measure against them. Men out there do not kid yourself.

    In the past they tried protests, involving involve-able MP, un-indiffrent public and press (Totally controlled by the un-assuming Women’s Refuge). Fathers resorted to resignation, suicides and outright submission.

  36. onewomanDV says:

    I think you should continue to strive to see your children.
    If you have not been violent with them or your ex-partner you should continue to make every effort possible. Mediation can help… it is easier and she can be summoned to attend.

    I am in a similar situation but I am the woman with full access to my son. I encourage my son to see his father but always worry about what might happen should he start drinking again.

    When violence is involved all bets are off… and you cannot really rely on anything. You seem like a good father and do not deserve to be stripped of your parenting rights… especially if you have not been violent. I wish you loads of luck and hope that you never give up… remember to take care of yourself too and not be disheartened by it all… Good Luck!

  37. J W Buckley says:

    Why cant i get a School report every year to let me know how my children are getting on. My ex has made visitation so hard that its easier for all parties not to see each other. A system should be set in place so all non- custodial parents should know how there children are doing at school (come on child support do something positive for us). Why is my child support worked out on my gross income then payments taken from my nett income. Why do i pay child support when my children are over the age of 18, eg. you can vote,get married, smoke, have legally binding contracts, have children they are legally adults! someone please explain. Child support needs to be overhauled and looked at seriously judging by how many parents are frustrated. Why have child support not acknowledge why why why. Ive only got 4 years of this frustration left and would like to think there will be some change between now and then but wont hold my breath. Maybe a walk over the harbour bridge might get there attention. PLEASE I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR OTHER PEOPLES VEIWS.

  38. Henry says:

    I went directly to the school and they were quite happpy to send a duplicate copy to me. Keeps it clean with the ex and you do keep up to date and can send letters with compliments to the kids directly.

  39. Hans Laven says:

    In my opinion no government department should be allowed to make major arrangements (except in an emergency) concerning children before it has ensured that both parents agree. At present, health, educational and other government services blithely go along with one parent’s plans concerning children (such as enrolling children in a new school), and guess which parent that usually is. At least, those services should be required to ascertain whether parents are separated and if so to identify, locate and consult with the other parent.

    Incidently, an interesting little research study would be for some male and female actors to apply for things concerning children. I predict that if the “parent” is a male the department will more often make enquiries as to the mother’s involvement and wishes, while if the “parent” is a mother little interest will be shown in the presence, role or wishes of the father.

  40. janice says:

    hi my situation is the reverse how do i get to see my children a judical hearing is set down, how do i do an avadafit without accuring legal fees, i can not afford legal aid

    my has stopped me having any contact with my kids and i cannot talk to him what do i do?

  41. Allan Harvey says:

    Hi Janice,
    The more important question is usually how do the children get to see you. I am assuming you are ineligible for legal aid because you earn too much or you don’t want to blow what little you have accumulated in a home.
    Doesn’t look like anything reverse in that lot most of the people who come to see me tell the same tale.
    Family Court isn’t a fast process and for those caught in its processes it churns very slowly and mangles you, your kids, any possible co-parenting relationship with your ex.
    This is not the place to discuss details of your case.
    You are welcome to contact me at [email protected] and nearly every Nz town has a women’s group designed to ensure men are screwed by the system. they take nearly every XX unless the case is extremely difficult (for them that means major mental health issues) in which case Debbie Hager in Auckland might help because she know “he drove me mad”
    If only there were some resources for the XY for similar situations.

  42. kirsty says:

    i have the opposite issue.. its my ex, the father of my son, we have been in court and had a parenting order put in place. he is to have my son monday from 3pm til thursday 3pm. used to be tuesday.. i felt bombarded and let him have a extra day it has come to my attention that my son is not with his father most of the time during his “time” and is in the care of one of his dads mates. and it clearly states that my son is to be in the care of his father. i even rang up court and the lady i spoke to agreed that it was a breach of the parenting order its starting to affect my son, he doesnt want to go to his dads. and i get him all excited that he will get to see dad, and when he arrives at dropoff point his dad is hardly there . my son is being dissapointed over and over again. he is starting to not be himself. am unsure on what to due, any advice would be much appreciated, also a little history, the father of my son has a head injury, was seen abusing our son in winz but that was put down to innapropiate disiplene. he neglected my son by not taking him to the ( infected blister on my sons foot he couldnt walk on his foot at all)
    oh by the way my son is only 3 almost 4. im worried about his emotional wellbeing, as this may effect him later on in life.
    please any advice would help

  43. shafted says:

    Hi Kirsty. If you email me a landline number i can call you.Email is [email protected]

  44. Scrap_The_CSA says:


    Have you tried talking to his dad? Courts wont help your son but will create conflict that will will damage your son.

    I accept dad did not deal well with the blister, but unless there is a continuous history of neglect I would suggest that all parents make mistakes.

    I suspect that the hardest part of parenting apart is the adults sorting out their relationship issues colouring what they view as the “best interests of the child.”

    If you can, talk to dad. Use a mediator. Focus on the best outcomes for your son. With dad work out how you can both contribute to parenting. Its not easy but, if possible, will get you out of the conflict based courts.

    I’m sure you both love your son and want the best for him. Putting you and dad into further conflict via the courts is the last thing I would suggest.



  45. Father in Invercargill says:

    I’m in Invercargill and going through this. How do I get in contact with the author if this post. I’d be interested to see how it all turned out.

  46. Michelle says:

    This thread was a long time ago, but I wanted to let you know that I am in the same boat that you were in then. Except, I am the Mother.

    It breaks my heart every day, but I will never, ever give up. If it’s my dying day, I will still fight my childs Father, and I hope that you have continued to do the same.

    You never want to give yourself an excuse to doubt your loyalty to your children in the future. I hope everything worked out.

  47. K says:

    I have been through a hell of a time with my only son when he was younger… 3 to 7. In short, my ex (male) asked if he could look after my son whilst I study, well, things fell off the wagon with me, I found a new partner and lived a party life, immersing myself in study and partying… not worrying about anything else. When my ex found another partner, I was wrapped for him, truly wrapped. However, his new partner was a horrible lady. She managed to manipulate things between him and I to the point where Court proceedings ensued, I underwent parenting programs, counseling and finally, supervised access at a day care. Even though, I have no police record and evidence from family and friends of my good character, I was accused of abusing my child by affidavits written and in support of a woman who I had only met at my mother’s house once. It was 4 years of hell, periods of weeks and months went by without me seeing my son and $45,000 later, the matter came before a Judge who was a complete bitch. In the end, my son’s lawyer helped me out in Court and the bloody matter, after years, I was allowed to have my son overnight and without supervision… to add salt to the wound, throughout this whole period, I had to pay child support without seeing my son. Even though the Judge was a bitch, she did caution my ex that because there was nothing to back his allegations up and the evidence I brought was substantial, if he were to bring the matter to court again, his rights to day-to-day care would be reduced.

    Now that woman is out of my exes life, we are back to being talkative (never will be friends) but I can assure you, nothing like that will ever happen again. It is better for my son, now he is 14 it’s a shame he’s getting bigger faster but, at least his father and I have that mutual trust between us and that is, the shit will simply never happen again.

    NOW, I am 35 years old and pregnant to another man after 14 years. It has taken me that long to trust people and I am loving it but… yes there is always a but, his ex is not letting him see his son because she knows that he has another woman (being me). It’s SO incredibly sad that a woman’s fury is usually over a grudge or jealousy. In this case, my man’s ex cannot let him go and has tried all things necessary, from telling him to look after his son at her place to asking for sex to get him back.

    My man doesn’t bother even trying to see his son because it’s a lost cause with his ex as she is very manipulative so I can only hope that one day she snaps out of it and realises that her son needs his father and his father has always loved her son.

    Word of caution, MAKE SURE YOU DO THE RIGHT THING WHEN HAVING A CHILD!! That goes for both sexes. We all do things wrong however a woman wouldn’t necessarily let things go when she has your kids and what’s the worst thing a woman could do to you? yep, use your kids against you to make you crazy.

    Being a woman, I have never done that to my ex and really, I still feel like running him over but one thing is for certain, having been through what I have been through, I wouldn’t turn around and do that shit to him.

    You can’t undo what is done and you cannot see into the future, but you can make things better for yourself. Get help, be the better person and move on.

    Arohamai, K

  48. N says:

    Sounds like “Parental Alienation Syndrome” which is happening so much now and the children are suffering all over the world if you can prove that you can get full custody.

  49. joseph says:

    PAS great information, good sound advise,been angry for many years on this issue I ranted on here and unloaded.
    ONLY when my comment can no longer be seen or I cant respond you lost me…sorry.

  50. Paul says:

    PAS, these are great comments but stop, smell the coffee.

    How will you prove PAS from their mother, in NZ, now come on?
    Will it be as a result of a psychologists report?
    Which one?
    Will the Family Court Coordinator (most likely a woman) ensure that this (most likley a woman) does the report and reports that the woman (mother) does this.

    I know of a female Psycologist who identified that the mother hadn’t bonded with the children yet the father had. The father applied for custody and three months later just before the five day custodial hearing the Psycologist reported that the mother had bonded, yet with no professional intervention. Needless to say custody did not pass to the father. 18 months later the same Psycologist came back and reported the mother hasn’t bonded after all. At this time the Psycologist had little option as there were three Kindergarten Teachers about to explain their views as the to children’s behaviour prior to and after each parent came to collect or drop off the children.

    We might ask, why bother with a hearing at all in this instance?
    So good luck proving PAS from the mother.

  51. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Paul, the familycaught$ psychologists are not quite 100% unfait or bad. Certainly not a gamble worth putting money on. I have seen some realistic, fair, constructive reports.

    Others have suggested that psychiatrists are more careful, in their weighing of evidence than most psychologists and this gives much better odds of a fair report. Women have told me that and men have told me that too.

    The management methods of familycaught$ damages the real skills that some psychologists have, thus hobbling the quality of their work.

    Some have said that a psych of integrity would not continue to work in familycaught$ and there is too much truth in that. I guess they need to pay bills and have good holidays, just like the rest of us. So they do what they need to do, to live.

  52. Rosie says:

    Can anyone advise me where to go for advice for a man whose daughter is 30 years old but he has never met her but wants to.

    Background: brief fling, told of pregnancy, asked for proof it was his, never heard back, left it. Mother married and had 3 more children.

    18 years later hears from someone that the girl looks exactly like him and so he contacts the mother. Mother says not now, she would be upset.

    12 years later: wants to contact her but doesn’t want to cause upset of any sort.

    Which outfit is experienced in dealing with this sort of thing?

    Look forward to receiving this information. Thank you.

  53. DJ Ward says:

    I have heard a number of similar stories.
    One of the issues that comes up is the mother justifies the father not being in the child’s life with lies.
    If in this case the daughter was to meet the father.
    Will his response to the question.
    Why were you not part of my life.
    Be the same as the story the mother raised her to believe?
    My guess is no.

    Sometimes the truth hurts.
    But what is a life that is a lie.
    Has her life been empty without the love of the father?
    She may say thanks for nothing, goodby.
    Or she may say, welcome into my life.
    What will be lost, as presently you have nothing.
    What could the both of them gian.

  54. Allan Harvey says:

    @ Rosie post 52.
    The Salvation Army have a family reunification service.

  55. MurrayBacon says:

    Finding your birth family CYFs
    (Look to the very bottom of the webpage..)

    Adoption Search – How to Find Your Birth Family

    Adoption Reunion Survival Guide Preparing Yourself for the Search, Reunion, and Beyond

    A book may be a litle help. Many people find counsellors experienced in these issues. I think Birthright used to offer such support and counselling. I am not sure if they still do?

    Best wishes and good luck!

  56. Rosie says:

    Thank you very much for your prompt and helpful replies. I will check out and pass on those links you supplied, Murray, and the reference to the Salvation Army reunification service, Allan. Thank you again. 🙂

  57. Equality says:

    By our experiences, I would exercise caution around the Salvation Army.

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