Another Domestic Violence Suicide
I have retracted this post because I have become aware that the information it was based on was inaccurate. I regret trusting the source of my information. I apologize to Ms Francis and to any other party who may have been distressed by my erroneous statements.
I hope in due course and with Ms Francis’ permission to provide a more accurate account of the situation that was the subject of this posting. The inaccuracies in the original posting do not invalidate my criticism of current state management of domestic violence and how this contributes to male suicides.
i am a male in a domestically difficult relationship.
i have been trying to get out of this relationship so many times and have changed my numbers about 20 times both mobile and landline.
however my ex alway either emails me or calls around telling me how much she misses me and how no one else can fill the gap in her life.
i feel sorry for her and go back.
once back in the relationship she proceeds to focus on everything wrong with me and i get depressed again and want out.
people say its your own fault if you go back and “just say no” etc.i have taken out a trespass order but she disobeyed it twice and i felt sorry for her i didnt want to have her sent back to china or charged 1000 dollars.
now we are back again and having unprotected sex and we have already had one termination.last november.i like the guy above dont know how much more i can take but i will continue to try to get free.
Comment by dr donal keane — Thu 29th January 2009 @ 2:55 pm
This is a shocking situation Hans. Thanks for bringing it out in the open.
Donal, damn, your situation sounds too familiar. (smile) I think too many people break up the slow, hard way. But what can you do when people care so much and fall in love.
You have made a big step by speaking openly about it. Well done.
I just want to express that this is a dangerous situation for the both of you.
Comment by julie — Thu 29th January 2009 @ 10:17 pm
Caring sensibly for our people does mean standing up to the gang that preys on separating parents.
This gang presently operates under quite a high degree of public trust. This gang market themselves as “the professionals”. They say “trust us”, but for heavens sake – “don’t check on our performance!”.
I have never in my life heard an honest person demand trust, without being willing to prove their integrity and identity.
Before you place trust, you must check on their performance and only proceed if you are satisfied. To do otherwise, is to risk vandalising your own family.
The public must awaken and realise that to protect their children through “times of acute psychological stress”, that they can do it better themselves, cheaper and more safely for their children, the separating parents.
When people try to take abusive advantage of these Government systems, they are abusing the trust presently placed in them. Systems that lack the skills to know whether they are helping or vandalising families, obviously shouldn’t have such abusive powers.
Years later, what has this abuse achieved? Even the abuser has only a history of destruction, there is no value to anyone, but those in the Government organs of abuse.
While the performance of this gang is not easy for the public to access, then the public remain fairly unaware of the hazards and dangers that lurk around them, while they are pulled to pieces for all loose money and valuables that can be taken.
More and more examples lie around us and we must pick up this information and do something to protect our young families from these strippers. The Legislation may be reasonably good in most cases, but unless it reliably actually works in the real world, it is just dishonest marketing material.
Australian father murders child during custody dispute
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24980494-601,00.html
I have no personal knowledge of Anthony McGuire. It sounds as though the police primary error was in arresting him, without checking on what the real world situation was.
A doctor who gives pills to person B, that are the proper treatment for person A, will soon be taken out of business.
The police and familycaught are doing this, at great cost and destruction to our families. If we don’t act to protect our families from this malpractice, then we deserve the suffering that obviously forseeably results.
Our “friends” in the familycaught keep on suggesting positive changes! We have been hearing this self-serving drivel now for more than a generation! The time has come to say, enough is enough. They are not “learned friends”, but “earned fiends”.
Lets give this work to people who are prepared to work in a normal competitive commercial environment, with the checks and balances of customer payment and choice. Obsessive secrecy favours only the plunderer, not the people who bring up families in the real world.
The people who have abused the trust placed in them must be held accountable for their performance, in terms of quality, timeliness, value for money, honesty of communication and outcomes.
Where their actions have lead directly to deaths, that were forseeable consequences of their relationship vandalism, then let them carry this personal responsibility in the form of financial compensation to the people left behind and appropriate cumulative jail terms that reflect the severity of the vandalism.
This is the same as breaking family trusts, to help greedy developers to pay for the damages resulting from their substandard building work.
Similarly, no doubt legal worker’s family trusts will need to be broken, to pay financial compensation for their substandard work ie family relationship vandalism.
Their incompetence results from allowing people lacking relevant qualifications to practice and not having working systems of checks and balances, exactly the same as has occurred in the building trade.
Notwithstanding the legislation, our familycaught operates in an extremely adversarial profit driven manner. Only open operation could ever remediate this. There is no point in repairing this monument to family vandalism, just replace it with a service industry, based on relevant skills, honest information available to consumers and customer choice of who they will employ.
While we delude ourselves, by burying people under accidental death, rather than facing the truth of what we have done to them, our society can never get better.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Fri 30th January 2009 @ 8:36 am
Thanks Murray (comment #3) for posting the link to the Australian tragedy yesterday when the man threw his 3 year old daughter off the bridge, killing her. Of course, what the article did not explore was how the Family Court contributed to this man’s psychological collapse. That’s because Family Courts there, as in NZ, operate mainly in secrecy and we don’t get to see how much they invite abusive tactics and lies, and how much damage their huge financial exploitation causes the victims who are dragged through their system.
Comment by blamemenforall — Fri 30th January 2009 @ 9:14 am
How could any person live with themselves, when they had acted to initiate the death of the father of their own child:
His partner Donna-Maree Francis said she hoped the inquest would give her answers.
“I want to know why he hadn’t had his items taken off him,” she told 3 News last night.
“I thought it was the No 1 rule to do that.”
Carrying responsibility can be a source of pride.
Diverting attention from carrying your own responsibility doesn’t really sound like an indicator of good parenting?
The women of NZ drive to suicide as many men in two years, as did the Air NZ flight programmer who set their plane on track to fly through cloud and impact straight onto Mt Erebus. His aim was true.
Why were the “police” so quick to play their role in this man’s impulsive decision to escape from NZ?
Just where did the “paramount interests of the child” go?
There would be a lot of laughs in “judges” explanation as to how this child was served by NZ legislation and police policy.
Are we going to see any “judge” stand up and say, I apologise for my role leading up to this?
I believe that Austen Tayshus could do the work of all of our familycaught “judges” put together and I doubt he would want more than $250,000 a year. He is a professional with relevant skills. Besides, his jokes are worth laughing at……
Best regards, MurrayBacon.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Fri 30th January 2009 @ 7:00 pm
I find it disturbing how the system can be manipulated by women to gain full control of the kids and bleed the farther dry. For several years i have been unable to have my kids (as per the system) as i work for a living. But my x can care for them after school where as i would be home an hour after them in witch time my partner would care for them. Therefore i am only allowed them on every second weekend and when my X says its ok. Hence i have had them for about 142 day per year for the last few years. That would be 4 days short of the 146 days that would constitute shared care in the eyes of child soppurt and drop my contribution from 24% to 18%. All calculated before tax but taken after resulting in it being more like 33% of my net pay. Leaving the 66% of my net pay to pay for me, my partner, her 2 kids full time, our new baby and the 142 days i have my kids. Oh, musn’t forget that i do get child support for my partners 2 kids but that ends up being less then 1/20 of what i pay as he is on the DPB and hardly ever sees his kids (well really they are mine now).
Last straw is that X has gone on the DPB, getting free lawyer and filed for a protection order and full custody of the kids.
I suspect it would have been lots cheaper and less risky to have ones X killed.
Comment by TheOdin — Mon 2nd February 2009 @ 10:58 am
hi the odin,
i can hear a lot of frustration in your letter as you can probably read in mine.
this whole area of child custody looks very painful.
i couldnt help wondering if your current partners x has the same complaints as you ,im not trying to be clever but im just looking at something??
i could be wrong,im just trying to help.
donal
Comment by dr donal keane — Mon 2nd February 2009 @ 1:44 pm
Killing ex-wives is a BIG double whammy for governments, they have to pay for prison AND upkeep of the children. Instead of getting income tax from the man, they must PAY OUT 1000s per year.
If, as i expect more and more dads do this, governments MAY have to do something
Comment by OnceInALifeTime — Tue 3rd February 2009 @ 10:07 am
Hi Murray,
Donna-Maree Francis here. I have read what is on this website and it is sonot true. You guys wouldn’t have a clue what really happened with me and my partner. By the way theres nothing in there that is true except the part where he was arrested. Anthony didnt own a house, he didn’t own anyhing he spent all his money on alcogol and pokies so i suggest that you guys get your facts right berfore you make assumptions!!!
I know what happened, and its not what it states on this website.
I will show this website to my lawyer aswell.
Donna-Maree
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:42 am
Hi,
Keep it up guys and i will take you’s to court. You guys do not know what happened between me and my partner so deal with some real issues.
Anthony was a lovely guy and a good dad to our kids, but if you guys really knew the true story as to why he was arrested, and i’m taking it wasnt just a domistic dispute it was assult on me and our 5 month old daughter if you really wanna know.
I will show my lawyer this website and any accusations about me,my partner and kidsd i will take you to court!!
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:48 am
I strongly suggest that you guys get ur facts right before posting them onto a website, nothing except the part of anthony being arrested was true. Why didn’t you contact me to get the real story before listening to other people’s bullshit. Ive ghot the file of the whole case and what it states in here is a load of bullshit.
I will take yous to court if you keep it up.
Donna-Maree Francis
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:54 am
Hi,
Just letting all the viewers of this website know that wat has been published on this website is a load of crap and i will sue them for false information.
Anthony McGGuire did not own a house, infact i supported him at my own expense. I nevr did use him or bleed him broke,he spent his income on Alcohol and pokies. He didnt have any assest and money was not an issue between us.
He was the paternal father to my baby and i can easily prove the to Mr Murray Beacon.
There was never disputed about him drinking with his mates which leasd to him being arrested he was actually arrested for asslut on me and our 5 week old baby on the 26th May 2008.
Murry Beacon doesnt haver a clue. Guys like him look for stories to get attention on himself as he hasd nothing better to do that write false information.
I will show this website and print a copy to take to mky lawyer tommorrow.
Keep it up and i will sue you!!
Regards: Donna-Maree Francis
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 10:46 am
Its your right to sue but if you intend to do so you must realise that the only one who will benifit will be your lawyer.
It would be considered by some a great victory if you do sue as it will place much more information in the public domain and remove the viel of secrecy that surrourds the matter.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:20 am
Donna,
You can post your version of the real story at any time.
I have known Murray for a long time and he pays considerable attention to detail and has always been accurate in his observations.
Repeatedly threatening litigation tends to support Murrays view of the real story.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:26 am
So Donna, are you saying that you DIDN’T “employ a very senior lawyer who sought a finding of accidental death rather than self-inflicted suicide, so that she could benefit from ACC insurance money.” ?
Comment by golfa — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:33 am
Acc money had nothing to do with the death. That is an entitlement that my daughter has.
I chose Johnathon Temm as my lawyer why has nothing to do with you
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:41 am
my daughter got her entitlement through acc way before i had a lawyer to represent me at the inquest so try again.
Anthony’s family did that through acc had nothing to do with Johnathon temm
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:44 am
My daughter had already had acc approveed even before the inquest so Johnathon temm had nothing to do with that,he represented me as his partner and represented my baby too.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:46 am
The coroner has mentioned it all in his findings, which is totally different to what Murray thinks he knows. He would have gone to anthonys job, the workplace that treated him like shit. They don’t know nothing just like yous
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:51 am
Theres no secrecy in the matter and the matter has nothing to do with you’s.
I loved my partner and the alcolism got to him and if you’s knew the real true story he had been sucidal in the past before we even met.
I have a beautiful daughter to him who is going to turn 2 next week. I can even prove that to murray to prove his facts are wrong,and anthony didn’t own a house he didn’t own anything.so how did i use him?
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:57 am
My daughter is entitled and has been since a month after the death. My lawyer was hired to represent me in court.
He wasn’t paid to represent me so we could claim for acc the claim had been done a year before that
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:11 pm
Anthony weas a great guy but what happened that day what he did to me and our baby was not cool. I dont need to mention detail to you’s however i want to have my say as what i read from murray was not true at all
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:14 pm
the coroner expressed my concerns in his report i have the whole police file and investigation,inquest and coroner finding to prove that what murray beacon states is totally untrue he has nothing better to do than to make false accusations.
I suggest that in future that he makes sure what he has be told is facts before he posts them onto a website or i will get the website closed down thru my lawyer
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:16 pm
Always two sides to a story.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:18 pm
I also want a personal appology from the author of the information about me and my partner and kids on this website as what it states in here is a load of junk.
Don’t you guys have better things to discuss than listen to people that dont know what they are talkking about.
Good luck and all the best on your stories
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:42 pm
exackly and who gave you your story,lol
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:43 pm
Theres two sides to the story anthony’s in his police statement and mine, i have them both in my file who’s have you’s got a twisted story to murray,lol
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:44 pm
i got the 2 sides to the story in my file anthony’s and mine bet ud love to get your hands on that,that will even prove your website story wrong,so where did your 2nd side of the story come from its not anthony’s and it’s not mine.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:46 pm
i’d love to know where you guys got your story from,bet i could guess that,lol even that story isnt right.The two side to a story is mine and anthony’s which i havce got,do you have that?Bet not cos your info is wrong
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:49 pm
lets meet and see how your two sides to a story matches with mine and anthony’s police statement, i’ve got them to prove your article from murray wrong.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:58 pm
like i said he doesnt know nothing
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 12:59 pm
I will also show the coroner the information that was posted on this website after the inquest before the findings were released that will get you’s in trouble.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 1:08 pm
Donna,
It’s well known that many people shop around for lawyers who are most likely to get them what they want.
In our adversarial justice system who you choose for a lawyer says allot about the kind of person you are.
I notice that the police didn’t charge Anthony with an crime.
Yet they carted him away and banged him up in a jail cell!
Even more disturbing is that the police didn’t even follow routine procedure but left a vulnerable man alone in a police cell with enough equipment to suicide with.
It’s chilling to note two things about this.
Firstly the systemic lack of care shown towards a man – How much this fits the man bad – woman good views promoted by NZ feminism for decades now!
Secondly how easy it is to say only you know the truth now that Anthony is no longer around to tell his version of events!
So now you’re threatening to sue folks who say they knew Anthony well as a good man, and that they believe he was used by you and driven to suicide.
I don’t know enough about the case to decide wisely all the ins and outs here.
But I know this much Donna.
Some folks in NZ will be wondering if Anthony was cynically used by you simply as a sperm donor – and if that is what drove him to drinking.
Some folks in NZ will be wondering if the ‘domestic incident’ was set up by you in the first place to get Anthony taken away by the police.
Some folks in NZ will be wondering how on earth it is that a clear case of self inflicted suicide would EVER be questioned as possibly being accidental death!
And this Donna.
Research into suicide done over many years by the NZ Mental Health Association found suicidal people have three crucial psychological aspects which impel them to self destruction.
1. A sense of not having a community (no-one to turn to for help)
2. A sense of not having identity (such as when someone gets rejected by their partner, looses a role such as father)
3. A sense of hopelessness (such as when the only outcome of living is further ongoing pain)
Quite apart from the justice system there is another court.
The court of public opinion.
You can threaten to sue folks left right and center.
But all the lawyers in the world can’t gag that court from taking place and reaching it’s verdict.
And that court will decide for themselves who you are and the part you played in Anthony’s tragic death.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 1:16 pm
Julie,
Nice to see you didn’t automatically jump to defending a woman’s point of view when the man (Tragically) isn’t around to defend himself as you did with Blah.
I’m impressed.
You’re growing.
Kia Kaha tuahine.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 1:20 pm
I dont understand why you needed a lawyer?
Were you being charged with something due to the poor fellas death.
Why did you require representation in court as to his death?
Mits
Comment by mits — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 1:20 pm
Anthony was arrested as a result of my injuries i recieved from him that day,that resulted in 2 bone graft opperations and i also had evidence of strangulation. All this had evidence at inquest from the police.How can u blame me for him being arrested over just a dispute when that was not reason why he was arrested,also there was a drunk driving charge why he wasn’t released from Police Custody on the night of 26th May,2008.
I strongly suggest you guys make an appology for such accuations and have them removed from this website or i will be taking further action.
I don’t have a problem with you guys having the story on your website. I suggest if you do,get ur information right by getting it from the coroner and have permission to submit that before the findings were released which were not released at the time of your accusations.
Its bad enough that what Anthony did has effected us all and most of all he has left behind 2 beautiful children. I never did use Anthony and i am deeply sadened by what you have put on a world wide website.
So if you want the story on the website, i’m ok with that,but get your facts right, from the coroner Wally Bain, in Rotorua
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:08 pm
Absolutely Skeptic.
The real victim here is a child with no father, a community with a justice system that does not care about right and wrong, and we tax payers who have paid for this woman’s anger and manipulation and will probably pay for her DPB or widows benefit for the rest of her life.
Comment by Kiwi Skier — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:16 pm
Does Anthony or his child get an apology from you?
Comment by Kiwi Skier — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:18 pm
Ok the coroner’s court has already released the findings.
The rotorua police were to blame for so many lapsing procedures including the posessions not removed. The blame has never been pointed at me by the courts and the coroners court.
And no Anthony was not just a sperm donar thank you very much,again you are assuming alot of things which shows how stupid you are.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:31 pm
That’s right the one’s left behind hurt are the kids,myself and his family and friends. It was not my fault at all.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:32 pm
not for anthony’s actions,no.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:38 pm
I’m not going to b other with this website anymore except throght my lawyer if the story isn’t corrected to facts.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:40 pm
hi wayne francis.(donnas brother here).the author of this article has obviously got his info from 1 side and gone from there.so many incorrect statements its a joke .Like donna said she was supporting him(infact other members were helping him).
Instead of jumping on the bandwagon and making comments on a forumn clearly looking at it from a biased angle.get your facts right.Donna loves her kids.Aaliyah is a great lil girl
Comment by wayne — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:43 pm
ai know anthony didnt mean to do what he did he just wasnt thinking right,to much alcohol got the better of him in the end.
As long as i know i loved him and he loved me so that’s all that matters.goodbye not going to bother trying to prove the facts to you’s.You can listen to gossip it doesnt worry me at the end of the day i know what really happed and not u.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:44 pm
I loved anthony and i love my children i don’t need to read your guys gossip,i try to be the best mum i could be.
I am not to blame for anthonys death,anthony did that hiumself leaving behind two beatutiful childen,myself and family and friends.
Please stop this as it’s not cool. I am already strugling to cope with what he did that day.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:49 pm
i am not on a widows benifit,there you guys go again making assumptions.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:50 pm
I of course gave the DPB option which has more funds available in the way of training grants etc.
Comment by Kiwi Skier — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:57 pm
haha you are funny you are just making me laugh when u say things that r not true
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 2:59 pm
If the blame has “never been pointed at me by the courts and the coroners court.”, why did you need a Lawyer other than to pursue what was suggested earlier ?
Comment by golfa — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:22 pm
As I wrote in the original post, I was conveying things I was told by someone who knew Anthony well. If any of that is wrong I apologize unreservedly. I am interested in details about how this tragedy came about. The main point of my post was to highlight the evil in police routine when they are called out to alleged domestic incidents, where only one side of the story (the woman’s side) is listened to. Fair and reasonable treatment, recognition that relationship disputes are passionate and there are always two sides, may have avoided the suicide.
Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:30 pm
No, Donna-Maree Francis.
You think you have both sides of the story.
But you absolutely don’t have both sides of the story.
You weren’t in the police cell with Anthony when he suicided.
Sadly Anthony would have known why he committed suicide.
But I’ll reiterate this –
Research into suicide done over many years by the NZ Mental Health Association found suicidal people have three crucial psychological aspects which impel them to self destruction.
1. A sense of not having a community (no-one to turn to for help)
2. A sense of not having identity (such as when someone gets rejected by their partner, looses a role such as father)
3. A sense of hopelessness (such as when the only outcome of living is further ongoing pain)
The court of public opinion is still very much open.
Please pass my love on to the surviving fatherless kids.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:34 pm
Always two sides to a story.
Regards
Skeptik
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:38 pm
Well i would like to say the police didn’t got by what was said by me it was by what they saw on my neck
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:46 pm
Hi Donna-Maree
This must be very distressing for you. The author is a registered psychologist in Rotorua. I think you should complain to the nz psychologist board. You have my support. I will do what I can to help. My advice to you is to avoid further comment on this destructive website.
Comment by Rynae — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:46 pm
and who was that person? not the belgium bar by any chance? and theblame on yourt article is appointed at me not at the police,you just mentioned what the police do,if i didnt fear for mine and aaliyah’s life i wouldn’t have rung them but we were at risk after i was nearly strangled to death in front of my baby.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:48 pm
the evidence was witnessed and proven by several police.My lawyer was representing me and my daughter at the inquest and i do not have to state why, but i willo as there were many lapses in the care of my partner at the station that night which led him to take his life while on Constant monotoring that was ot done,that’s why i had a lawyer to point out what went wrong
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:53 pm
thanks for your support, yes it is very hard to go through yet alone be blamed for the death on someone i loved so much
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 3:55 pm
it’s bad enought anthony did such a stupid thing, knowing he had 2 children to watch grow up.
However there’s not much i can do other that try and tell my story and my evidence on the whole case. For me myself i have to try get through it and be the best mum i can be and focus on his surviving child, and my career for my children.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 4:00 pm
this is the last post in writing on this.yea you are highliting an issue which could be true in some cases.How youv got your info and stated it is just wrong.! False accusations which are sickening dont help your argument.
For some 1 complaining about police routine and aledged incidents havnt you just done the same as them?
Youv got told somthing and then actioned on it with no real understanding of this case.Then some other posters in a male forum (routinely)have backed it up.(also with a biased angle on a male forum.There is nothing fair and reasonoble about what you and others have said.I just hope you in fact havnt damaged your cause.No wonder guys dont get taken seriously 🙁
wayne
Comment by wayne — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 4:19 pm
wow
Comment by paul — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 4:32 pm
i required representation at the iquest as a part of my right to get my lawyer to speak concerns that we had with the way my partner was treated in police custody.That’s why, no other reason
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 4:56 pm
i had every right to be represented at the inquest so that my lawyer could point out my concerns at the way my partner was treated whilst in police custody, and the 20 procedures that led to him to take his life in their care.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 4:59 pm
thats all scrap seems to be able to say is that there are 2 sides to a story,yet they dont know the 2 sides to the story,me and the courts and the coroner do.hahahahaha
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 5:46 pm
Hi . My name is Jerry. I am the currentn partner of Donna Maree. I have been her partner since 17th November 2009. I never met Anthony and I remembered the case vagely 2 years ago.
What has been said here in some peoples views from such unreliable sources, vilifies the partner of Anthony Mcguire. Donna is already struggling bringing up two preschoolers,one of which is now fatherless. Someone stated Donna Maree only wanted Anthony as a sperm donor,and once the child was born,wanted nothing to do with the father. How untrue is that? Can I tell you that Donna Maree mentions Anthonys name almost on a daily basis. she was truely in love with that Man,and still is to this day. Even I am somewhat jealous ,that she still affords such a deep love that only I can hope for from her. When she looks into her daughters eyes she says,you have your Fathers eyes. We just spent Easter break to travel to Northland for donna Maree and her two children to go visit Anthonys grave. I did not attend but stayed in the motel as this was their pilgrimage. I may be allowed next time we are up there.
So thats one theory shot down in flames. If you go to Donna Marees place.She has photos of Anthony holding his new born daughter with Donna Maree next to them in the ward.
So I challenge that theory that she only wanted him for a donor.
Comment by Jerry(Donnas new partner) — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:02 pm
The other argument mentioned is that Donna Maree was interested in what Anthony had in property and of value. Donna told me
Anthony was a generous man as a partner and provider,but lacking in personal possessions or property. He in fact told Donna he owned a house in Rotorua,which in fact he rented. As a partner he brought the best cuts of beef home,lovingly prepared the ingredients and produced dishes to impress his love in life Donna Maree.You see Anthony was a qualified Chef.
She had been showered in romance and the love they had for each other was unmatched.
Sure they had disagreements and arguements,breiefly breaking up,only to make up and get back together again. This is life. Nothing unusual here at all.
Who was to know what was going to happen that one fateful evening?
Heres the scoop. Anothony was out drinking heavily with someone known to both him and Donna Maree. The theory goes a melicious liar was mentioned to Anthony,who left in a alcholic rage driving around to confront Donna Maree at her house. What happened next resulted in a assalt on Donna Maree,requiring hospital treatmet and surgery and the Police called to have Anthony being removed for his safety, Donna Marees and her familys safety.
Now because the Police didnt follow proper proceedure when processing Anothony. This eventually lead to Anthony suiciding. Donna Maree didnt tie the shoe laces around his neck. He did. He didnt care about Donna Maree or his baby Daughter in the dark moment. All he wanted to do is end his life. So the victims are all who part of Anthonys family.
Comment by Jerry(Donnas new partner) — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:27 pm
No Donna – Maree.
Not stupid at all. Far from it.
I think you’re trying to twist my words.
For we only have your word for it that you didn’t use Anthony as a sperm donor – and manipulate him emotionally in many ways come to think of it.
We DO have the fact in front of us though that he was so distressed he killed himself.
Get this perfectly clear though – Ultimately there’s only one person responsible for Anthony’s death – Anthony.
There may be many valid reasons however as to why he chose such a drastic course of action.
Like I said before only Anthony knew exactly why he suicided.
You weren’t int the room when he killed himself.
A few things are crystal clear to me however.
People kill themselves when they have no sense of community – in other words when they feel they don’t belong.
Sadly I think it’s fair to say that must have been Anthony’s sense of things at the time of his death.
And since this is a site explicitly for the purpose of promoting a clearer understanding of MEN’S EXPERIENCE I’ll add my MALE experience to this posting.
I’ve had much too many experiences of listening to NZ women where I stupidly allowed myself to be duped into believing their account of guys who weren’t around to defend their integrity from scuttlebutt.
It’s clear to me that too many NZ women spread scuttlebutt in order to manipulate people emotionally and get sympathy for themselves. Indeed decades of personal experience means that’s what I’ve come to expect from allot of women (and some men) wherever feminist culture exists as it still does strongly in NZ.
So I’m not going to automatically believe your version of events is the be all and end all of the story of Anthony’s suicide.
If you have a problem with that – tough.
Like Anthony’s death it another thing you’ll just have to live with.
There will be some who think that’s cold-hearted of me, and who automatically rush to your defense and sympathize with you because your a woman.
If your one of those then again I remind you that you’re only getting Donna-Marie’s version of events which doesn’t give the FULL picture.
The other missing part of that picture got taken to the grave in a desperately lonely horrific act of self violence.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:31 pm
No dude you are just anti women, you dont know what happened or what anthony went thru in his life so dont even try and assume you know why,butt out the caase has nothing to do with you,same as the coroner stated it had nothing to do with me.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:47 pm
Jerry,
tellingly you say this –
“I never met Anthony”.
You also say this –
“Someone stated Donna Maree only wanted Anthony as a sperm donor,and once the child was born, wanted nothing to do with the father. How untrue is that?”
To which I reply – Anthony isn’t around to answer that. But what’s crystal clear is he was so distressed he killed himself.
So in essence all your telling me is you’ve only got Donna’s version of things which you CHOOSE to believe.
I’ve had so many experiences of NZ women’s deception I CHOOSE to remain a Skeptik.
Notice I’m not saying I’m right and your wrong, or vice versa, only that I’m skeptical.
You wouldn’t be the first man in history to swallow hook line and sinker an emotionally manipulative woman’s version of her ex. And not having met either of you I reserve judgment about both of you.
Please pass my love to the kids.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:51 pm
well septick you can try blame me all you want as i have alot of supporters and family that know what really happened during his life which lead to him to be so depressed,however i do not have to anwser to you,you are anti women and by the sounds of it you need to mind your own business and worry about your own experiences with women,lol
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:53 pm
Notice the standard feminist BS line when confronted – “Your just anti-women”.
There’s your cue sisters and pussy whipped chivalrists – damsel in distress. Quick rush to her aid!
It used to work as a way of manipulating men emotionally. But increasingly men are standing up for themselves and one another and no longer get pushed around so easily.
I can’t help but wonder if Anthony had to endure similar manipulative BS.
And so I remain a
Skeptik.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 7:59 pm
my kids don’t need the love from an evil man that doesn’t know anthony and is assuming he knows what went wrong.
Everybody knows it had nothing to do with me and that what he did,he will now be regretting.
I have alot of supporters that knew me and anthony and you are definately not 1 of them so butt out and sort out your own issues.
Anthony will live forever in out hearts, you wouldn’t have a clue how much i loved him and how much he remains in our hearts you just go by hear say and to me that shows how weak you are as a person.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:03 pm
Donna Maree,
You still don’t get it.
Again your trying to twist my words.
You aren’t being blamed. But as I said I’m not going to automatically believe your version of events is the be all and end all of the story of Anthony’s suicide. The missing part of the story went with Anthony to his grave.
I remain a
Skeptik.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:03 pm
Then dont get involved in issues that you dont know nothing about.
I know why he did it and i dont need to explain that with you
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:05 pm
the missing part of the story is u didn’t know him and we don’t know you so what you say or think doesn’t matter
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:06 pm
Donna Maree,
you say – “Everybody knows it had nothing to do with me and that what he did,he will now be regretting”.
Well sorry to burst your bubble, but no. Not everyone knows it had nothing to do with you. Like I keep saying we don’t have Anthony’s take on matters. And how can someone dead regret anything?!!! Weird!
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:07 pm
Everybody just needs to read about what you have to say about some1 u dont know and something you dont have a clue about,to know that you are shit stiring
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:10 pm
I have spoken to a well known phycic she told me alot from anthony and many things that happened that she mentioned were true. She told me he regretted doing what he did as he was just trying to get attention to get help,unfortanatly that didn’t happen and he lost his life without knowing what he was really doing
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:14 pm
You can try and have your say at the end of it i know anthony was a loving partner and dad to his children and that’s all that matters to me.
Goodbye
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:16 pm
No Donna Maree.
The missing part of the story isn’t that I didn’t know him. It’s that at the point of his death NOBODY knew him apart from Anthony himself.
You say you’ve got lots of supporters to believe your take on things.
Again we’ve only got your word for that.
And so I remain a
Skeptik.
By the way this is a site which has a banner I think you may have overlooked.
The banner says – MENZ – promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience.
Your take on Anthony’s suicide doesn’t help me be clearer about men’s experience, except to give me reason to believe that the feminist BS reply that you think I’m a woman hater may indicate Anthony was emotionally abused by you.
And so I remain a
Skeptik.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:18 pm
I’m not going to argue my point to you, no wonder why u never got along with women you put your nose into heavy situations that you shouldn’t even. I could never treat a strangers situation the way that you have,now that is weird
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:20 pm
Abused,lol far from it mate.
Keep trying and remain a Skeptik, goodluck with your journey in the Skeptik world
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:23 pm
Anthony was not a Skeptik he had alot of respect for women
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:25 pm
Donna Maree,
Again your trying to twist my words and I think you’re trying to be emotionally manipulative by claiming that I’m quote – “just shit stirring”. Again you’re using the everybody word. You don’t make it clear exactly who ‘everybody’ is though .If you’d had the decency to ask why I’m putting my two bob’s worth in I could tell you.
It’s becoming clear to me that this is the sort of emotional manipulation that Anthony may himself have been subjected to from Donna Maree and unfortunately not known how to counter.
Perhaps part of the reason he hung himself, alone, distressed, in a police cell by his own boot laces was he was so ground down by emotional abuse.
But like I keep saying Anthony isn’t around to say if that’s true or not.
And so I shall remain a
Skeptik.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:29 pm
Remain a septik, if that’s what makes you happy
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:33 pm
Donna Maree says –
“Anthony was not a Skeptik he had alot of respect for women”.
Notice the further atempt to emotionally manipulate.
The usual tired feminist BS tactic of trying to guilt trip a man into ceding his point of view.
and this –
“I’m not going to argue my point to you, no wonder why u never got along with women you put your nose into heavy situations that you shouldn’t even”.
I think that’s unreasonable on several counts.
Firstly Donna Marie clearly IS arguing with me whilst claiming she won’t argue with me.
Sorry DM. You’re either arguing with me or your not arguing with me, you can’t have it both ways.
Notice the attempt to create confusion and throw the receiver of such a message off balance by giving them two contradictory ideas at the same time?
And then the insulting ‘should’ comment trying to shut down my commenting through guilt tripping.
Again I offer a reminder that this site is for
promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience
Yet you appear to think I should shut up and let you grandstand your take on a man who’s dead so isn’t around to defend his integrity. And you have the gall to say I’m being weird!
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:46 pm
So if i had the decency to ask why are you putting your 2 bobs in?
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:47 pm
Hey Septik you dont know me so don’t make assumptions.
I have alot of respect for men,however you are 1 in a million that i dont get along with.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:53 pm
It certainly does make me happy to be a Skeptik and have moved beyond automatically swallowing hook, line and sinker a woman’s word about a man who isn’t around to defend his integrity.
I will celebrate tonight not being a whimp in the face of certain women’s attempts to emotionally manipulate me into taking their point of view as gospel, nor getting shamed into silence in the process.
Long gone are the days of putting women on a pedestal and myself in the metaphoric gutter.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 8:59 pm
Good on ya Septik. Listen to the voices of the people that don’t know anthony nor me. That will get you far in life
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:04 pm
Anthony did have alot of respect for women you could ask anybody that, that knew him as a person not just a article on a menz website
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:08 pm
You are making me laugh about what you say as anthony was a caring person that had alot of respect for women.
If anything he would have been anti Skeptik, so right now he would be laughing with me at what you have to say.
Nice to chat to a Skeptik,bit different to what i am used to with the males that i know.
Take care,bye
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:13 pm
Donna-Maree,
I’m glad you finally asked that question.
That’s decent of you.
Because this site is for –
– promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience –
And because I respect Hans viewpoint which is that Anthony’s case highlights an issue that NZ men confront as part and parcel of living there – NZ society and culture’s relative lack of care for men.
I mean, seriously think about it. ….the NZ police, an arm of NZ government would put NZ men in a cell without making sure they weren’t a risk to themselves!!
Holy shit!
I’m a man.
It’s natural I’d feel concerned about that!
And as someone who’s been in the NZ justice system and allied professions I doubt they’d do the same with a woman they were holding in custody.
And I’m putting my two bobs worth in because I feel disturbed seeing you trying to intimidate others into taking your take on Anthony as though it’s gospel first with libel threats then several attempts at emotional manipulation…to side with you, when IN FACT the whole story shall always remain incomplete without Anthony’s take on matters.
And because with NZ’s terrible record on male suicide it’s my hope that somewhere there may be a man reading this who sees how I deal with attempts to shame and silence me with twisting of logic, insulting comment and appeal to authority and learns something about how to do similar with women in his life instead of getting depressed and worst of all being tempted to commit suicide.
Note very clearly I’m not saying or implying you emotionally manipulated Anthony to feel so depressed and suicidal. I’m simply saying the jury is still out in my mind, and as we can’t get Anthony’s take on things because he topped himself I shall remain a
Skeptik.
Skeptik.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:26 pm
Folks,
notice the final two insulting and inflammatory comments from Donna Marie.
Jeesh, it’s a good job I toughened up some time back.
Now, let’s see you take all the emotional invective you’ve written here to a lawyer and argue a case that you’ve somehow been maligned.
That would be ironic in my view.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 9:39 pm
MurrayBacon,
you wrote – “The women of NZ drive to suicide as many men in two years, as did the Air NZ flight programmer who set their plane on track to fly through cloud and impact straight onto Mt Erebus. His aim was true.
I know what you’re driving at as I’ve met loads of emotionally manipulative NZ women, however I prefer to phrase it this way –
Too many NZ men have allowed NZ women to drive them to suicide. As many men in two years, as did the Air NZ flight programmer who set their plane on track to fly through cloud and impact straight onto Mt Erebus.
The reason I prefer that is it alters the focus slightly and sets out the challenge for NZ men to learn how to deal with emotionally manipulative women.
I think that’s something that needs addressing urgently in such a feminist culture as NZ where men’s depression and suicide isn’t abating as far as I can tell.
Also it’s something that every reasonably intelligent NZ man should be equipped to deal with having been educated. Clearly that’s far from being the case.
By contrast I I see a dearth of available resources to equip men thus.
Instead I see we primarily only have an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff kind of approach to NZ men’s emotional health(such as Mensline for example) – rather than equipping men with emotional tools to be able to debate with women firmly rather than being shamed and silenced.
Your thoughts?
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 11th April 2010 @ 11:16 pm
@Donna-Maree Francis…
When you chose to become pregnant to Anthony McGuire did you allow him any say in the matter or was it something presented to him as an ultimatum.
Did you seek his consent before turning him into a parent?
Comment by gwallan — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 12:18 am
Anthony wanted a daughter and he got what he want, he was very happy to be a dad for the 2nd time and adored his little princess.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 7:29 am
Septik i am not telling you to believe my side of the story that is a decision that each personal viewer decides when reading the article,however it would be better is the author got his facts from the coroner about the case before putting acussations onto a website that are so not true.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 7:33 am
I never used Anthony and treated him the way that this article on this website states, i am deeply saddened by what i read on this website about me and my partner and it is so not true. However i cannot prove that to all the viewers that read this article,nor am i telling you’s to believe my side of the story. The mostr i can do is explain that what it stated in this website is not what happened at all on the 26th may, 2008. Nor is it true about getting a top lawyer to represent me to claim for acc compensation. The acc compensation is an entitlement that my daughter recieved way before i had a lawyer to represent me at the Inquest. My lawyer represented me and my daughter to point out what went wrong and why my partner was treated like shit at the Police Station on the night my partner took his life. It had nothing to do with acc like this story states it was to represent us in court to get information from the police as to what really happened on that dreadful night.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 8:15 am
That’s not a good look mate. If any woman was holding out on me with the memory of a former partner, I’d dump her arse in a second. You don’t play favorites with partners any more than do it with kids – it’s a form of manipulation.
Comment by rc — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 9:55 am
well dude to bad my partner knows and understands that anthony will always be in my heart. So much for this article stating that i used him, thats a load of bullshit i was madly in love with anthony and it’s hard to let your love go of a person through such a tragic death. You wouldn’t know you havn’t been through it.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:00 am
u wouldn’t know,you havn’t been through it.My partner is a real nice guy and understands that anthony will always live in my thoughts.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:02 am
sounds like your ass would be dumped in a second
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:04 am
You have no idea what I’ve been through. I can tell you this for free though – no way in the world would I make a partner of mine think she was playing second fiddle to someone I’d lost.
Comment by rc — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:11 am
Folks,
notice now Donna Maree now deliberately mispells my online name calling me Septik instead of Skeptik.
She does so in an attempt to goad me before going on to cede the point that I’m actually allowed to hold an opinion!
(gasp! the condescension is breathtaking!)
That’s yet another form of emotional manipulation.
When I look at ALL the forms of emotional manipulation Donna Maree employs several things become apparent to me which
I invite others to look over the thread and see for themselves.
1. Donna Maree has a finely honed repertoire of emotionally manipulative behavior. Looking at the immediacy of her replies suggests such behavior comes naturally to her as it is deeply ingrained.
2. She has shown a profound sense of entitlement and expectation that I will back down, silenced as per her whim.
As it becomes clear I won’t back down but have my own views she escalates tension with inflammatory retorts.
3. Donna Maree exhibits typical methods of emotional manipulation employed by feminists for decades to silence those who disagree with her views.
* Falsely accuses them of being woman haters.
How many times have you witnessed a feminist use this tactic to close down debate? personally I’ve come across it thousands of times.
* Issues threats to use systems of authority to silence and harm them. In this case to sue Hans and others.
How often have you seen feminists threatening to use the authorities – police, courts, our employers, education boards, media etc to quash dissenting viewpoints?
* Exhibits a profound sense of superiority of spirituality. In this case she claims to have gotten advice from a psychic, which makes her argument incontravertable.
How often have you seen feminists airing views as though they are more spiritually evolved and therefore superior than those who would debate with them?
* Grossly exaggerates the level of social support for her own views and lack of support for dissenting views with phrases such as ‘everyone knows’ and ‘nobody believes’.
How often over the preceding last 4 decades have you witness feminists in academia issuing grossly exaggerated claims? (eg – 1 in 4 women have been sexually abused etc)
* Makes false and contradictory claims about her own behavior to excuse herself before issuing further invective e.g I’m not going to argue with you (before going onto arguing).
How often have you engaged in debate with a feminist who tried to give the impression of being reasonable and trustworthy before immediately going on to issue argumentative threats and insults?
So back more closely to the topic of the thread
Now here’s the thing.
You dear readers having had Donna Maree’s behaviour classified and outlined AND with your own experiences of feminism in NZ are invited to privately reflect upon some questions.
Given Donna Maree’s behavior and the fact that Anthony McGuire was in a close long term relationship cohabiting with her do you think it’s in any way possible that Anthony was drinking to ‘drown his sorrows’. That he could cope with her? That he felt a sense of inclusion and belonging or rejection and alienation?
Given that the police were terribly remiss towards a vulnerable man and didn’t follow standard safety procedures with him, how much faith in the police do you expect men in NZ to now have?
Given the parallels I’ve drawn between Donna Maree’s behavior and feminist tactics of quelling dissent you’ve experienced over recent times/ years / decades do you think there’s a place in NZ culture for teaching boys and young men how to deal with emotional manipulation / psychological bullying from girls and women?
Do you think the subject warrants a new thread here at MENZ?
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:17 am
anthony was an alcoholic before we met dude, actually i managed to get him to slow down the drinking so you are wrong again, like i said you dont have a clue at what happened between us you are making assumption based on this article.That’s fine at least i know what really happened and that hans is going to be delt with with the nz phycoligist board. goodbye
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:21 am
i wont be arguing my story with you’s on this website any longer my lawyer and the nz phycoligist is dealing with it at this point in time.
Bye
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:24 am
My apology for misphrasing a sentence in the previous post. It should read –
Given the parallels I’ve drawn between Donna Maree’s behavior and feminist tactics of quelling dissent and reflecting upon your own experiences with NZ women over recent times/ years / decades do you think there’s a place in NZ culture for teaching boys and young men how to deal with emotional manipulation / psychological bullying from girls and women?
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:25 am
No wonder why males are not listened to often enought,people like yourself ruin it for others,lol
Goodbye
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:26 am
rc.
You make a valid point in my view.
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:28 am
my current partner is a nice man and has understanding, unlike you’s. We are happy and he is ok with me about having memories of anthony remain in my heart.
My partner is ok with that,just seems like you have your own issues that u need to deal with instead of butting into others people issues
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:33 am
Great analysis Skeptic, and something I believe we should see a lot more of. I’d like to be able to spot the tricks without even having to think – and that takes well-worded logic and lots of practice. First rule though is not shrinking and keeping calm under fire. Kudos to you mate.
Something else I noticed in Donna-Maree’s many comments was her framing of Anthony’s suicide as something done to her, and not once has she referred to it as the great personal tragedy it was for him. Few of us escape suicide of someone close, but in my experience the grief for their loss completely overwhelms any sense of harm done to me. I don’t think I’m unusual in that regard.
Comment by rc — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:38 am
Donna-Marie,
What’s happening here, right now, with you, is not a good moment for menz, IMHO.
I don’t blame the men here for challenging you because for some of them, it’s not about dealing with their own personal stories, but about dealing with the misandry (hatred of men)soaked in society’s policies and many women’s consciousness.
You have spoken about Anthony as if he was a bad guy. You say he had a problem with drinking alcohol and gambling, and that he was violent when he drunk, yet I can’t understand why you were with him and why you had a baby to him knowing all this.
One thing from your story I’d like to ask is, “Do you also drink and gamble?”
Did you argue with Anthony or were you really always kind and considerate? You say you didn’t have money issues but I find it hard to believe you were OK with him drinking and gambling HIS money away while you had to pay for everything else. Especially when you’ve used Anthony’s drinking and gambling as a way to show he’s bad.
I am sorry for what has happened to you, but I don’t think you are telling the story from both sides either.
Anyways, RIP Anthony. And may your death have a way of making things better for other men yet to be locked up in prison over domestic violence.
Comment by julie — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 10:39 am
Well put Julie.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 11:06 am
That isn’t what I asked.
Was he given a choice before? Was he given a choice in what happened after?
A typical precursor to adult male suicide is being given no say in anything and being controlled by others in every aspect of their lives.
I’ll ask again…Did you seek his consent before turning him into a parent?
Comment by gwallan — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 11:30 am
I will tell u again anthony wanted a daughter and he got his daughter. He was so proud of her as he wanted a child and when she was born he adored herand he never had any regrets of being a father, so this is the last time i am going to tell you he planned and wanted her,got wahat he wanted and he was proud. What part of that dont you understand?
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 2:54 pm
Seems you’re the one lacking understanding.
His preference as to the gender of the child born has nothing to do with whether he actually wished to be a parent to begin with.
Did you get pregnant with his prior consent or did you get pregnant and then present him with a fait accompli?
I don’t disagree with your comments that we here don’t know the full story. I would also suggest, however, that consciences can be very tricky things.
Comment by gwallan — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 3:50 pm
how many time do i need to tell you that he wanted to be a dad before u understand it.of course he wanted a child i dont know many times i need to explain it to you that he wanted to be a dad, and already was a dad prior to our relationship and also wanted a child of our own together.What part of him wanting to be a dad do you not understand?
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 6:15 pm
he wanted the baby before we had evenm concieved i cant seem to get that thru your head.
I dont need to anwser to you anyway
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 6:17 pm
how many times do i have to explain that he did want to be a dad (meaning he did want to concieve a child, especially a girl as he had a boy to a previous relationship and he adored his daughter very much.
He was very proud of her and he never had any regrets of having her,unlike what the article on this website states, but that’s ok my lawyer and the coroner is currently looking into this website.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 6:22 pm
Thtas right his prefrence has nothing to do with wanting a child but like I TOLD YOU HE WANTED A CHILD, AND HE REALLY WANTED A GIRL.
IF YOU CANT UNDERSTAND THAT THAN MY GOSH
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 6:24 pm
he wanted us to concieve a baby and when we did he was very happy and excited. When she was born he was full of joy, there is no issues between myself and anthony about our child or our child being concieved, he was happy. Somehow u cant understand that.
That itself is a lack of understanding.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 6:29 pm
Julie- no i do not drink alcohol and no i do not play the pokies, and i didn’t tell my partner how to control his finances, all i could do was give him advice not to drink so much and play the pokies as it was taking all his income from him, yet this article on this website states that i used him for his house,car,money and assets when i read that i laugh as that is so not true he didn’t own anything except clothing. As for why didn’t i leave him, well the thing there was i loved him and gave him many chances. I was not running him down by saying he was an alcoholic, i wrote that on here beccause those are other things that drive a person to depression is alcolism and the stress of his job didn’t help his situation. Like i said this website doesnt have a clue what my partner went thru in his life.The author is going by hear say whcih is not a good look for a phycologist.Hence why i have my lawyer and the nz phycology board investigating the article on this website.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 6:39 pm
Hi Donna;
I haven’t read much of your case nor do I personally want to. From the comments you have written I can see that you are upset by what has been posted already and by the questions asked. I’m glad however, that you have been answering them in a respectful way. I believe that is an indicator in itself of your character.
My question to you is this. Would you like the article removed completely, or, would you rather it stay along with all of the comments?
I can’t guarantee what the moderator (Hans) will do, but perhaps he may take your view into account.
Peace to you.
Comment by noconfidence — Mon 12th April 2010 @ 9:52 pm
Donna Marie,
Thanks for your reply. I asked whether you drank or gambled so I could understand and now that you have said, “No!” I think I have a clear picture in my mind. I don’t know what else to say except, “Sorry for you and your daughter’s loss”.
I reread the post and I agree it is hearsay. It’s good that you explained what was wrong with it, IMO.
Hmmmm, I don’t think it is from a Psychologist point of view and I also think people should be allowed to take their career hats off and speak as themselves.
Of course that is your prerogative, after all the hearsay is wrong …. but I think it would be a waste of hard earned money to get lawyers involved and I think destroying someone’s job is too severe.
Comment by julie — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 12:14 am
Donna – Maree.
Your now demanding something which has already been granted. Hans said previously
” as I wrote in the original post, I was conveying things I was told by someone who knew Anthony well. If any of that is wrong I apologize unreservedly. I am interested in details about how this tragedy came about. The main point of my post was to highlight the evil in police routine when they are called out to alleged domestic incidents, where only one side of the story (the woman’s side) is listened to. Fair and reasonable treatment, recognition that relationship disputes are passionate and there are always two sides, may have avoided the suicide”.
That’s a very decent and fairminded response in my view.
Yet you persist in trying to get us to believe that because you’ve got a coroner’s report and some files that you know the whole truth. You back up that spurious claim further with a recounting of having heard from Anthony in the afterlife through a spitritual medium. Oh my goodness! And you expect to be taken seriously.
Listen. NOBODY, not you, me, lawyers, your files, the coroner, NOBODY except Anthony would know what was going through his mind at the point of him killing himself.
I personally doubt you could get some lawyer to destroy this website and sue people. Such talk simply strikes me as yet more emotional manipulation on your part – puffing yourself up and trying to intimidate people. Bullying behavior to put it more plainly.
Good grief, if you’re actually serious about going to the NZ psychology profession to complain about Hans posting material relating to Anthony here and they see the insults, the hollow claims toknow the mind of a man at the point of suicide the whacky psychic mumbo jumbo, the exagerations, distortions and plain to see sense of entitlement – all attempts to emotionally manipulate others you’ve displayed it won’t be Hans who comes off looking bad. It may well be you who gets heat from the psychologists.
What total arrogant nonesense to think you know the mind of a man at the point of his self destruction. Duh!
I think that’s a barmy form of playing god, which you dear mortal and woman surely are not.
And coupled with all the manipulative BS you’ve bandied about on this thread all you’ve really achieved is helping the court of public opinion to reach it’s own verdict about your part in his tragic death.. How ironic…
and still I remain a…
Skeptik.
say bring it on Donna Marree and you’ll end up
Comment by Skeptik — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 12:34 am
Julie,
Well done!
I wish for many more women in NZ to follow your example here of objectivity, compassion for men and well worded sound challenges to a fellow woman.
Kia kaha tuahine.
Comment by Skeptik — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 12:49 am
lmfao steptik
Bring it on is right…all the way
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 8:21 am
Skeptik- You see all me and the family want is for the story about anthony to be removed. It is totally incorrect and you can say what you want,it doesnt mean nothing to me,if anything i am laughing at you cause you dont know anything about anthony or myself and our kids.
I don’t have a problem with them having the story,however alot of changes will be made to get the true story unless you like to read a load of bullshit.
Hans stated the the person that gave the statement was close to Anthony, obviously they wernt or the story would be different.Thats why i have got people involved with this article now.
And you cannot post hear say onto a website about a deceased without the coroner’s permission,and even that needs to be aproved to be published in the public eye,not just to go onto a world wide web,especially when it’s a load of crap.
So i leave you with this if you want to bring this on…..bring it
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 8:29 am
You see Skeptik,you just don’t get it do you. We dont want an appology,this story is boyond an appology.We want the story removed from this website and if you’s want the real story than i am ok with getting it approved for you’s through the coroner.The media that got the real story also had to get permission,and that i’m ok with.But i am not ok with reading a load of crap on the world wide website for anybody to read that is only hear say and is bullshit!!!
How more stupid can a person be than to do that.
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 8:43 am
No,
This was a dead post untill Donna began her numerous postings. Donna is feeding her own fire blaming everyone else for doing so.
Donna goes on about litigation etc and has indicated she will not be making further comment but still feeds the fire.
IF donna stopped feeding the fire this thread would have remained dead- Donna has created this web drama by posting scores of comments on a thread she disagrees with.
There are two sides to any story and Donna has not been stopped from stating her side but cannot accept that not everyone sees it her way.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 9:40 am
Scrap-No scap, i am defending myself,anthony and our children. It is the continuous comments made by readers that ready your guys fake stories.Get it right scrap!!
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 9:46 am
It’s not about what you guys think,it’s about what you guys know about the issue which is fuck all!!
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 9:47 am
i havn’t ardly said much but to defend my story against your readers comment mate so get it right. There’s alot morte depthy into the story about why Anthony did it, and like i said to Hans,we the family and close friends really know what went on in Anthony’s life and what lead to him taking his life there is so much to it that its terrible.However this is personal information that i will not be sharing with you’s on a website, i respect Anthony and will not go into detail about what really happened with you’s.Hence why i sit back and react to the nast comments
Comment by Donna-Maree Francis — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 9:52 am
76 Comments posted by you Donna, so you have said a lot.
Regards
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 10:17 am
Destructive as in destructive to radical feminism? I hope so.
BTW: Bone graft, strangulation, assaulting a child and no charges laid… odd, isn’t it?
Comment by Pete — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 10:30 am
The continuous comments made by readers?
They’re responding to you Donna-Maree. You’re firing off comment after comment with what you believe, how you see things and how many authority figures you’re going to bring to bear on anyone who dares answer back. You’re coming across as a bit of a control freak.
Now I don’t know the details of Anthony’s suicide, but like a lot of men I’m damn tired of seeing so many men kill themselves and then seeing a useless media and silent law refusing to admit there’s much of a problem. It’s inconceivable that if women were topping themselves that there would be so much indifference. Few people know exactly how many men suicide, and even fewer know the reasons. The individual cases are kept as secrets, unlike say child abuse or rape – but, then, we all know who’s going to catch the blame for child abuse and rape, don’t we (even though there are plenty of female pedophiles, and there would be female rapists as well, but for the legal definition having been specifically defined as a male-only crime).
I don’t blame you for defending yourself. No reasonable person expects anyone to bare their chest and throw their fate on the mercy of a crowd. And I don’t blame you for wanting to keep personal matters private. But 76 comments – all saying much the same thing – is no way to go about it. And coming onto a public forum dedicated to men’s issues, resurrecting a dead story and telling us all to shut up because only you know the truth, which you won’t provide, is asking for it.
Anthony’s death is a matter of public record. People speculate about these sorts of things every second of the day, especially on the internet. If you think you can legally challenge it, good luck with that (while you’re at it, perhaps you could have all gossipers prosecuted). But just like posting 76 comments on a men’s board didn’t exactly help in keeping a personal matter private, what effect do you think will be produced by complaining to even more people? (clue – will more people know about your personal affairs than now, or fewer?). Consider also that kicking up a stink may well result in the-powers-that-be reversing earlier decisions that you are currently happy with.
Comment by rc — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 11:13 am
Donna-Maree wrote –
“And you cannot post hear say onto a website about a deceased without the coroner’s permission”
Is that so Donna Maree? What a hoot! look for yourself and I’m sure the web is littered with people’s comments about such matters.
Scrap, I agree with your recent comment on this thread.
Seems like we have another type of ‘white ant’ here!
Comment by Skeptik — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 11:22 am
Pete,
Spot on commentary. Well said.
It’s more than odd.
It’s the bizarre stuff of fantasy novels.
I cannot believe that in our current NZ misandric zeitgiest a man would escape arrest after doing to a woman what DM claims was done to her by Anthony.
It gets stranger and stranger…..
and I remain a……
Skeptik.
Comment by Skeptik — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 11:29 am
Good point about the white ant.
What a co-incidence that Donna-Maree should show up and re-energize a 15 month old story, just when two other thread hijackings were made by people clearly disturbed by this site’s presence.
How did you find this web-site Donna-Maree? Did someone recently kindly let you know?
Comment by rc — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 11:47 am
The issue is that police come and remove a father from any domestic dispute regardless of the circumstances. Yet it is fathers that have no where to go, no support and are instead persecuted. From that point on the father’s life will be striped from him. Most critically their children are striped from them. This is made worse by also crippling him financially since it removes options he may have had to re-build his life. Many of them see very little future for themselves. Suicide often results.
The 2nd issue is slightly more subtle. Let’s suppose that DM’s version of things is true. Anthony is therefore in jail and looking to loose all that matters to him. There does not appear to any reason to discount that Anthony saw this as his likely future once he was arrested.
In my mind the fact that police didn’t remove his shoe laces is a minor point. Clearly the police would have released him any way.
In my mind the current laws and practices are robbing an entire generation of children from having a meaningful father and also ruining if not destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands of men.
It is barbaric.
It does not have to be this way.
Comment by Dave — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 1:49 pm
Donna-Marie,
With due respect for the tragedy, I think the people you should be trying to convince are not on this site but rather people who knew Anthony.
1. They think you became pregnant rather than sat down with Anthony and planned a family.
You say Anthony wanted a girl but you don’t say whether that was during your discussion of planning a family together or after you became pregnant
2. They think you didn’t want a serious relationship with Anthony after the baby was born.
I don’t know if you’ve said this was wrong or not.
3. They said Anthony was a peaceful and gentle man who would never hurt a fly and adored his daughter.
You say he was a violent man when he drank alcohol but agree he adored his daughter
4. They said he owned a home.
You say he only owned his clothes
There was also 4 comments made prior to your commenting that were about similar things to the article but nothing about you.
Then you came on and wrote…
I can understand someone threatening court in an emotional moment but I wouldn’t expect they’d have money to burn to actually do it. If legal aid pays for stuff like this, our country’s really screwed up.
Actually, it is about what we think. That’s why you’re spending your time trying to convince us that Anthony’s friends are lying.
On a serious note, many people here know a thing or two about men and suicide and so do many readers.
Comment by julie — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 2:34 pm
@Donna-Maree Francis…
Just noting that you’ve posted five times in fifteen minutes in response to one simple two part question.
Only once Donna-Maree but it helps if you answer the actual question posed. As it stands you’ve only responded to the first part of that original question and it took you more than ten posts to do even that. We’re not there yet.
A very sincere suggestion Donna-Maree…see a different psychologist – a second opinion if you like. Talk to your GP. Do something. You mention a psychologist in your posts but your actions here suggest that individual has let you down badly. Go there not for a shoulder to cry on or for somebody to complain to. Go there to learn as much as you can. It will serve you well in the future.
Comment by gwallan — Tue 13th April 2010 @ 4:58 pm
Julie,
Wonderful stuff. Now your rockin’
Kia kaha tuahine.
Comment by Skeptik — Wed 14th April 2010 @ 1:39 am
Thank-you!
Comment by julie — Wed 14th April 2010 @ 8:35 am
Wow, I’ve just stumbled across the most deluded people in NZ. Arguing with a woman they’ve never met about the horrific details of her own life and relationship, based only on paragraphs of text read on the internet!
Amazing! Wow
Comment by Rose — Sun 3rd April 2011 @ 9:12 pm
Hi Rose,
I suspect some of us know quite a bit about this tragedy. In the end it is about a child robbed of her father.
For two and a half years, Rotorua’s Donna-Maree Francis has had to come to terms with the fact her daughter will never know her father.
Ms Francis is the former partner of Anthony McGuire, who committed suicide while in police custody in 2008.
Now she wants compensation from the police – and an apology.
The Independent Police Conduct Authority has released its report into the death of Mr McGuire, a 33-year-old Rotorua chef, who was found hanging from his cell doors after being arrested in May 2008.
The report has found that his life could have been saved if police had followed correct procedures.
Rotorua police say they and other police stations around the region have strengthened custodial management systems since Mr McGuire’s “tragic death” and the new systems were now working well.
Miss Francis said the last few years had been hard for her and Mr McGuire’s 2-year-old daughter Aaliyah.
She said even though Mr McGuire was no longer around, she still saw him every day in her daughter.
Aaliyah was only 5 weeks old when her dad died and Miss Francis was saddened that she would never get to know him.
“That’s been the hardest part, to look at her [Aaliyah] every day and see him [Mr McGuire] very strongly,” Miss Francis said.
“She still kisses his photo.”
She is now considering applying for police compensation – either financial or some sort of counselling for her daughter while she grew up.
“At least an apology would be great.”
She said the IPCA findings had given her closure and hoped Mr McGuire could now “rest in peace”.
She was pleased that Rotorua police had admitted they lapsed in their care for Mr McGuire.
Rotorua area commander Inspector Bruce Horne acknowledged there had been lapses in police procedures and said officers had learned from their mistake.
“As a result of our own investigation, we have made …
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changes. Most importantly, we have strengthened our systems and processes.”
He said there was now better supervision, staffing, prisoner management and better searches were carried out.
Now that the report had been released the police would be willing to meet with Ms Francis to discuss any outstanding matters of concern she had, he said.
Mr McGuire was arrested on May 26, 2008, and charged with assaulting Ms Francis and driving with excess breath-alcohol.
The IPCA report said Mr McGuire was placed into a cell at Rotorua Police Station at 5.28am, without being searched or processed correctly.
“He was placed in a cell in possession of several items with which he could harm himself or others, including jewellery, a lighter, cords from his clothing and shoelaces,” the IPCA said.
At 8.56pm Mr McGuire was seen by another prisoner hanging from his cell doors. Despite immediate medical attention by staff Mr McGuire could not be revived.
On the basis of the police’s response to the incident the IPCA said it had decided to make no further recommendations.
Comment by Allan — Mon 4th April 2011 @ 8:32 pm
The NZ Police had this man distressed and in custody for over 15 hours yet they did not ask for any medical assistance for him, no psychiatric assessment and they left him in this condition for that length of time with the tools for his own destruction.
No wonder Donna-Maree and others are angry about this. I for one am angry and dismayed at the loss of this life, this brother, and this father.
Police have admitted they failed to search a man who used his shoelaces to take his own life in a Rotorua police station cell last year.
Anthony McGuire, 33, was arrested on May 26, 2008, after his partner called police during a fight.
Within hours Mr McGuire was found dead in his cell, hanging by his shoelaces from his cell door.
In an inquest into the death which opened in Rotorua yesterday, police admitted Mr McGuire was never searched.
He was allowed in the cell with his shoe laces, jewellery and a lighter.
“The police accept and acknowledge these failings which led to the circumstance in which Mr McGuire was able to take his life in the manner that he did,” Fletcher Pilditch for the Crown said.
The police also said a risk assessment of Mr McGuire’s mental state was never completed.
Since the death, a new facility had opened in Rotorua and changes had been made to the procedure for dealing with prisoners, police said.
His partner Donna-Maree Francis said she hoped the inquest would give her answers.
“I want to know why he hadn’t had his items taken off him,” she told 3 News last night.
“I thought it was the No 1 rule to do that.”
Comment by Allan — Mon 4th April 2011 @ 8:41 pm
Rose thanks for stumbling upon this so we can again honour Anthony and his memory.
Suicide followed police safety assurances
By Mathew Dearnaley
Dec 17, 2009
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615997
The partner of a man who was found dead in a Rotorua police cell after a domestic incident says she was assured he would be “totally safe” in custody. Donna-Maree Francis, partner of Rotorua chef Anthony McGuire and mother of his 18-month-old daughter, recalled yesterday how she phoned the police on the night of his death in May last year in an unsuccessful attempt to have any charges against him dropped. “I told a police officer that my partner wasn’t a suicidal person but I was very concerned for him, because what he did was out of character and I was worried he might do something stupid or someone might harm him,” she said. “But he [the police officer] said: ‘Don’t worry, he’s totally safe here, nothing can happen’.”
Ms Francis was commenting on a coroner’s inquest report which found that 33-year-old Mr McGuire’s death was self-inflicted but followed a series of 19 “frankly unbelievable” lapses by police which created a circumstance in which he was able to take his own life. Coroner Wallace Bain heard at the inquest the police tried calling four lawyers in response to his request for legal aid, but were stymied by answer-phone messages each time. That has led to a call by Dr Bain for the Legal Services Agency to “give urgency” to the establishment of a national legal help phone line to be available to all prisoners at any time of the day or night.
Comment by Allan — Mon 4th April 2011 @ 8:44 pm
I unfortunately I knew Anthony personally – 2 years of hell. He was an alcoholic, he was violent, he was always taking drugs, he lied, he was abusive, he made me think I was worthless, he took all my money, he crashed my car (while drunk), he stole from me, he gave my stuff to his family, I lost a lot of my friends. Many times I tried to leave – he broke into my mothers house and dragged me out, he got onto the roof of my car and would not get off, he chased me down the road, he humiliated me, he degraded me so much I thought I could do no better, he “fattened” me up, so my self esteem was pretty pathetic. I don’t care what people think of this – or if any one even cares, but I’m glad he never got me pregnant! So many times I called the police on him – because I could not get rid of him, in the end I told him I was moving out, ended the rental as it was in my name – oh and I paid all the rent – and didn’t tell him where I was going. But of course he found me, and still continued to try and control me – why does anyone give a damn about him! I’m surprised I didn’t kill myself, maybe he realised what sort of person he was?
So before anyone judges my comments – no one listened to me – especially not the police, neighbours did nothing, I cried almost everyday and I was made out to be the bad/mental one or I was just a bitch! I have moved on, I have a great life, but this affected me so deeply, there will always be scars.
Comment by Leonie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 6:06 pm
And in a weird way I can sympathize with Donna-Maree Francis, I can see how a lot of previous comments were based on so called truths – as Anthony was very good at getting everyone to believe that things were the other way around, pretty much everything that came out of his mouth was crap, piled on more crap. He tried to get me into have a baby with him – no fricken way – thank god I’m infertile. So to you Donna – I can understand your anger, I can understand your pain – but only because you have his child.
Comment by Leonie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 6:18 pm
I can understand how you feel. Ive been through it myself (still going on). Although she didnt steel my money as such, she did still drain it off in worthfulness. I was stalked by her until I was forced to return. She used our child to hurt me as well as other degrading comments & violence (person and property).
Her and her mother have lied about it. Used there own “bad” experiences and said I did that. Everything she did to me was twisted to sound I was doing it to her.
She knows where im now living, worries me somewhat.
Sounds like you ringing the Police gave you “red flags” hence why they didnt believe you. Doing what is right, isnt the right thing to do.
My sister has been through something similar to you.
Comment by Jono — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 6:54 pm
It is just as well that Anthony wasn’t the woman and Leonie the man otherwise society would most likely be sympathizing with Anthony and asking “What did Leonie do to deserve that?”
I can’t speak for Donna-Maree, so I’ll quote her instead:
Anthony was a lovely guy and a good dad to our kids ….
…. Anthony was a loving partner and dad to his children ….
Anthony was a great guy ….
…. i loved him and he loved me ….
Anthony ………… had alot of respect for women
Anthony was a caring person that had a lot of respect for women.
Anthony did have alot of respect for women you could ask anybody that, that knew him as a person ….
Which contrasts with your own description of poor Aaliyah’s late Daddy.
Another apt quote from Donna-Maree seems fitting here:
Theres two sides to the story
…. and I bet there are two sides to your story too. Unfortunately dead men can’t defend themselves from nasty attacks.
Comment by Wayne — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 8:09 pm
Leonnie,
Shame on you for demonizing a man not alive to defend himself against your slurs. There are indeed two sides to the story. That you come here of your own volition and slag Anthony off speaks reams about the kind of person you are.
Comment by Skeptik — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 8:19 pm
Well all I can say is I tell the truth. And I’m a much better person than he ever was. Telling the truth isn’t slagging someone off. Plain and simple he WAS AN ALCOHOLIC. Believe what you like. And to top it off he prevented me from seeing my father that was lying in hospital about to die. He insisted that he go to the hospital with me – he was wasted yet again – and all he did was complain, took all my money, drove my car around, then came back to the hospital and demanded I take him back (this was a 1 hour plus drive each way) once I got his royal highness back he refused to let me go – how selfish of me to want to see my father before he dies. And not to mention the fact that he kept taking the wheel from the passengers seat to try and run us off the road – what a swell guy. I did get to see my father briefly before he died, but was made to feel so guilty it is not funny. Yes he may be dead, but he never paid for what he did to me. And I can assure you, the only words that would come out of his mouth to “defend” himself would be so slurred and he’s probably pass out before he finished making his “point”.
So how dare you judge me – you weren’t there.
Comment by Leonie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 10:57 pm
So I asked him to treat me like I was a worthless piece of scum he found on his shoe? Wow I understand now – thanks skeptik. All along it was me! Why didn’t someone tell me this all those years ago, seriously, then I would have come to know that being thrown against the wall, have him put his hands around my throat, kick me, call me every name he can think of was normal behavior for a “lovely” guy. I should have handed him my car keys whenever he was drunk, that would have saved the surprise of me finding my car in a parking lot, all crumpled up, with a head imprint in the windscreen which his head didn’t quite go straight through – damn. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened if I had known all along it was my fault. What do you think skeptic? Shit, poor Anthony I drove him to be so violent.
Whatever. I’m allowed to be angry to him.
Comment by Leonie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 11:10 pm
And by the way I wanted to beat the crap out of him anytime I found him passed out – of course I didn’t, but hey, that’s just me. Such a bad person aye?
And the name is Leonie – not Leonnie. And I don’t slur as you put it, I’m not an alcoholic.
Comment by Leonie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 11:25 pm
And what does it say about the type of person you are, did you know him? Did he ever come to your place and do to you what he did to me? I don’t think so.
I realise this site is all pro-men, but seriously. I do know women can be abusive also, it’s just as bad. So you of all people should not be the type of person to think that just because I’m female – I must be making it up.
Comment by Leonie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 11:29 pm
Leonie,
I wasn’t there it’s true.
But the fact is I’m here now witnessing you slagging off a dead man who isn’t around to defend his reputation.
Whatever he did to you slagging off a dead man is low behavior in my book. I DO dare judge anyone who indulges in such, as I would expect to be judged myself if I engaged in that kind of action.
And please I’m too old and wise from living to believe the simplistic “he was a bad alcoholic I was a snow white angel” BS.
Get over yourself.
Comment by Skeptik — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 12:06 am
Leonie – The system under which a man lives in NZ or US or UK or AU or most places anymore is oppressive, tyrannical, unfair, irrational, irresponsible and stupid. There are so many other great adjectives to describe it. I don’t know you or the guy you’re slandering. If his behavior was as bad as you describe, you have to understand the extraordinary and ridiculous and unnecessary strain such a system puts on a man. I’m not saying it’s an excuse for his behavior (whatever it is), but it is a very good explanation. When I was married, I lived under perpetual threat of divorce for false allegations of domestic violence, losing my children to false allegations of child abuse, going to prison for excessive child support arrears, and destitution. I could not protect me or my children from these circumstances that were inevitable for more than half of all married men. There is almost never any legal or political or social recourse for these men or myself. Living under such an oppressive and tyrannical regime has its costs. You do not understand it because you have never lived under such circumstances. Basically, what I’m getting at is that women have created such unlivable circumstances for men, any woman forfeits the right to complain about men because nearly every pathological behavior of a man can be explained as a response or result of those unlivable circumstances imposed upon him or at least it doesn’t preclude it as an explanation. My wife terrorized me and our son for years. But to her, my refusal to acquiesce to her terrorism was abuse – that’s crazy. She’s crazy. That’s what psychopathy and malignant narcissism are – getting angry because a man will not submit to your terrorism, manipulation, oppression, tyranny and solipsism. You sound like a woman (like many woman) who want’s absolute control over everyone else and doesn’t want any personal responsibility for the consequences. The way you pursue a dead man with such persistence and contempt is disturbing – do you understand what is wrong with that? That you don’t suggests maybe you don’t understand other elements of your behavior and its consequences for other people.
Comment by Darryl X — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 3:09 am
I think you guys need to get over yourselves. If you are unhappy leave. Plain and simple. i don’t give a shit what you may think of the type of person I am, the only person I have ever hated and still hate is him.
Men like you lot that love to blame all their problems on women are seriously pathetic – and to say that I wanted absolute control – I just wanted the right to not be abused.
Go fuck yourselves – wish I was never told about this stupid forum.
Comment by Leonie — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 8:03 am
Read at the top of this page:
– promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience –
You say “I just wanted the right to not be abused” and yet you come to a Men’s Rights Website and become abusive towards MEN. You display clear evidence of what poor Anthony must have had to deal with.
Maybe you would be best to take your moaning, your shaming language, your foul mouth, your self denial, your lies and your victim mentality to a feminazi website where the hatred of men is encouraged and tolerated.
Comment by Wayne — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 9:04 am
Leonie – Just to illustrate how little you understand or care about other people, in the US, a man can’t leave because the gov’t seizes his passport in response to basically a woman’s insistance without sense or reason (actually, other countries do this too, and I was surprised to learn NZ and AU don’t – but maybe soon). It’s a serious constraint on a man’s life (and there are many others that women do not have to endure). Your lack of empathy concerns me. No one’s blaming all the problems on women (the earth quake in Japan was not caused by a woman, for instance – although the problems with the nuclear power plants were) – not all problems are the fault of women and some men are to blame for sure, too. But when I think about any obstacle, small or large, that I have encountered in my life, it was presented by a woman for no reason but an expression of her malignant narcissism. If the problem wasn’t presented by a woman, one certainly made it worse. I don’t know you, but our limited correspondence makes me want to drink. I mean, women seem to have so much displaced anger and hatred today, and I don’t understand where it comes from. It makes no sense. In just a few posts and with no clear provokation, your demeanor has disintegrated into that of a three-year-old. How is someone supposed to deal with that. Imagine having to deal with that in a family with a real child present. And I don’t even know how to “fuck” myself, but thanks for the thought.
Comment by Darryl X — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 9:25 am
My anger was only ever brought about by him. Do you live in the US? I suppose you support Hitler also – he’s dead he can’t defend himself, yet he was a pig of a person.
For your information I did no provoking in the actions he took, I did everything I could to get out yet I couldn’t. So what if I have hatred for him, I have never talked about it with anyone, so it has affected me, probably why I’m taking it out on this site.
So to repeat – my anger stemmed from him, my anger was towards HIM when he went into one of HIS rages.
Comment by Leonie — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 9:33 am
And no you no one is blaming ALL the problems of the world on women, but you seem to think women are the cause of any action that a man takes? Please explain.
Comment by Leonie — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 9:36 am
I can explain, but it would take volumes. It’s easier directing you to literature like The Law and Economics of Child Support Payments by William S Comanor or Taken Into Custody: The War Against Fathers and Children by Stephen Baskerville. Other scholars who have written extensively about the consequences of feminism are Phillis Schlafly (a Constitutional attorney in the US who defeated the Equal Rights Amendment) and Erin Pizzey (who started the first modern woman’s shelter in England in 1971). There are many other great scholars who have written about feminism and its impact upon and contribution to rapid decline of civilization. Certainly about the role of feminism in destruction of the economy by the Central Banks throughout the developed world. Women actually are responsible for many of the decisions men make. Snatch his children, leave him homeless on the street, defraud him, commit adultery, turn the entire political, social and legal machinery against him, and he needs to make decisions for his immediate survival that may not necessarily be for the benefit of everyone else. And that is what has happened. Women have never faced the kinds of circumstances men currently live with under an oppressive feminist regime. It’s institutionalized malignant narcissism. You don’t have to do any provoking – you have an entire comprehensive legal and political and social machine to do it for you. The man never got a break. I know he didn’t. Because I don’t and no man does. Courts no longer hold women responsible for their actions. An attempt by a woman on a man’s life is interpreted as nothing more than evidence of a man’s alleged abuse of her. Courts conspire with women to snatch children from their fathers and alienate them. The federal gov’t subsidizes states to order more child support than the father can pay and when he can’t, they send him to prison. (This is child trafficking.) And after that, to live on the street. Paternity fraud is not punished. As a matter of fact, approximately 10% of children in the US are victims of paternity fraud, and men who aren’t even their fathers pay child support to the mothers (how screwed up is that). Most men in prison for rape (hundreds of thousands in the US) are innocent – not that they aren’t guilty of rape – but that no rape even occurred. That’s the kind of world men live in. Where most women are predators and a majority of men and children are their victims. Sorry, but it’s the truth. Incidence of suicide for men is greater than that for women by a multiple of four – by a multiple of ten for divorced men. You’ve priced yourselves out of the market and created an environment to live in best described as hell. So bad that I for one would rather be dead than live in it. Hard to imagine it’s that bad? Read some of the post here and some of the literature I’ve recommended and you should get an understanding of just how bad feminism has made life for a majority of the population and why civilization likely won’t exist much longer. In the US, 52-million children have been forcibly separated from 36-million fathers. Everyone fears women, even the women. Women are the new bogey-men.
Comment by Darryl X — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 11:01 am
Leonie,
You say:
So there it is in black and white.
Shamelessly publicized for all the world to see no less!
The emotion of hatred which is the desire to destroy, horrible petulant emotional abusiveness and failure to take responsibility for the self generated emotion of anger.
Like some of us have been saying on this thread there are two sides to the story and it’s a shame Anthony isn’t here to tell his.
It’s very easy seeing the toxic triad I’ve block quoted to get a picture of some of the enormous stress Anthony was living with. And not to seem like I’m letting him of the hook either – that was his choice too.
Comment by Skeptik — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 12:37 pm
It’s incredibly easy to take “bits and pieces” of what someone says to suit you. This site seems to be all about a bunch of men, who have or think they have (you choose whatever suits you) been brainwashed into a way of life that they can’t handle by women – that is downright gender bashing if ever I heard it. That would be like me saying all men will treat you like crap, use you for what they want then move on – which is not true – only some do. And much to your amazement so do some women. Yes Anthony was living with stress in my time with him – also before I met him and it continued after I was finally free, yet it was all from his own accord, he did not want help, he seemed to love being in a misery and wanted to take me down with him. I tried to encourage him all the time, I even encouraged him to do his chef training as he seemed to love to cook – how would that action be construed as me putting “enormous stress” (now I’m quoting you skeptic) on him – since when did encouraging someone to do something that they may get a bit of enjoyment from be wrong?
So answer me this skeptic what happened to you to make you so anti anybody except a male, stand up for themselves, or try and get their side of a story out (but seems you only want the accused’s side as to you that is the only relevant one). I’m just trying to enlighten those that are going oh poor Anthony, to what he was actually like – in the two years I knew him and the few months after being freed (when he would not take the hint to leave me alone).
Comment by Leonie — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 5:41 pm
Interesting Darryl X, I have to agree though (shock horror) that women can be nasty – but I would have to say that it is mostly aimed at other women. I don’t always look at situations of alleged domestic violence (etc) and instantly think that the man was to blame – some women love to provoke, just to see what reaction they can get. That is just wrong. But I just don’t believe that women are to blame for “society”.
Comment by Leonie — Sat 9th April 2011 @ 5:55 pm
Leonie,
I take back nothing I said previously. The idea that I’ve taken anything you say out of context is perverse in my view.
Your ideas again highlighted now stand archived for anyone to access indefensibly as beacons of abusiveness –
I think the conclusions I reach are fair
And I don’t need to respond to nonsensical baiting either.
After all I’m not a woman coming to a site which is for :
“- promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience -“ and carrying out an abusive character assassination of a dead man.
There’s a reason so many people use the expression “may they rest in peace” after someone has died. I suggest you’d do well to think about that expression.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 1:17 am
Approximately 80% of all adult women have defrauded a man. More than one-half of all children in the US are victims of child abuse by a woman. The consequences of these egregious crimes that go unpunished are considerable and far-reaching and almost always irreversible. Paternity fraud, false allegations of rape, malicious and unilateral divorce, adultery, false allegations of domestic violence and child abuse, false allegations of sexual harassment, snatching children and holding them hostage for ransom, parental alienation. The list goes on. Approximately 250,000 men have been imprisoned in the US for false allegations of rape during the past forty years (that’s an average sentence of twenty years for each man). One-hundred percent of all men retried by the Innocence Project have been acquitted. Some after twenty years. For most of these men, though, there is no more evidence of their innocence than their was their guilt, and they will never be acquitted. The direction of “nasty” behavior by women is not confined to women. If it were, there would be no long-term consequences (since almost no women make any real contributions to civilization – it was built by men for women). Most of that behavior is directed at men and children, who suffer most of the consequences. Feminists are responsible for almost all the problems with our civilization today – for anyone who wants to study the numbers, it is obvious. I am forty-three years old and am so disgusted with the behavior of women that I haven’t desire to spend any time with one. Dogs are smarter and more loyal – at least they have the intelligence to know how and why to be loyal. women are nothing but chaos. They’ll shoot themselves in the head just to spite a man. Dogs don’t do that. Only a woman can come up with a quote like the one by Hilary Clinton – “No-one is hurt by war more than women and children.” Oh yeah, except the men who died fighting that war that the women started because they can’t stop their excessive life styles. I can go on, but I think you get the point. No woman is innocent because they all exist under an umbrella that gives them whatever they want without them having to work for it or being responsible. You might be the most wonderful woman in the world (I doubt it though), but in such an oppressive and tyrannical society from which you benefit as a woman, any man would always be wondering about what you’re going to do to him because you can destroy his life and you don’t even need a reason. That’s what men live with every day that women do not. And never have.
Comment by Darryl X — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 4:48 am
Leonie – Men have not been brainwashed into a way of life by women – men have been enslaved by women in every sense of that word. In the US, one-third of all adult women have initiated malicious and unilateral divorce against their husbands (almost always for no reason, except to faciliate her adultery). She snatches the children. She makes false allegations of domestic violence and child abuse to get a restraining order against her husband. She falsifies police reports to allege he violated the restraining order. Then she gets custody and a huge order for child support – multiples more than the actual cost of raising a child and much more than the man can afford to pay. If he doesn’t pay, he either becomes a fugitive and lives on the street for the rest of his life or he is sent to prison. Approximately half these men have had to engage a criminal subculture that has emerged entirely around child support debt to pay. There is no welfare for these men like in NZ or AU or UK. When a man can’t pay for health care, he doesn’t have it (Medicaid and Medicare are the closest approximation to socialized medicine we have and that is inaccessible to a child support obligor). Almost all homeless are men. Almost all incarcerated are men. Almost all child support obligors are men. The list goes on. We are slaves in every sense of the word. Not brainwashed. Women did this to men – deliberately and with great malice.
Comment by Darryl X — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 5:19 am
Darryl
Great post. You wrote: “There are many other great scholars who have written about feminism and its impact upon and contribution to rapid decline of civilization. Certainly about the role of feminism in destruction of the economy by the Central Banks throughout the developed world.”
The role of the Central Banks is key. People wake up!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtLEu6ytN-Q
Also ‘Germany and England’ by Nester Webster
Look at the decimation of Euorpeans by WW1, WW2, the H1N1 pandemic of 1918, the falling birth rate in Europe (except for other national imigrants) and the distraction to current events and destruction of family caused by the feminist gender war.
Comment by Larry — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 8:09 am
Well excuse me for being born female – you guys seriously need to get a life – to think that all females are out to destroy you in particular.
I have better things to do. Especially since you seem to be (mainly skeptic who doesn’t even use “his” own real name) is on here in the wee hours of the morning – get a life and then live it!
Comment by Leonie — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 8:28 am
Thanks, Larry. Yes, I don’t think many people are aware of how feminists (women and their male enablers) have been and continue to be manipulated by the Central Banks for creation of a “One World” government. It’s not a conspiracy theory – Gloria Steinem really was funded by the CIA to broadcast her propaganda. Erin Pizzy really was driven from England by feminists. The assassins who killed Presidents Abraham Lincoln and William Garfield really were funded by the Central Banks. These are well documented historical facts. The sordid relationship between feminism and the Central Banks all the way back to middle of the nineteenth century in the US is well documented. Time is running out to stop globalization of tyranny as achieved through Central Banks and their manipulation of feminists. I wish people would listen. As long as people continue trying to negotiate and compromise with these monsters, who snatch children and hold them hostage for ransom (traffic children), then their will be no progress in rehabilitating civilization. The Central Banks and feminists they manipulate must be destroyed. An important part of doing that is educating women about their role in the destruction of civilization – most aren’t able to understand it though, so I’m not optimistic.
Comment by Darryl X — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 8:34 am
I think it is established statistically that almost all females are out to destroy men – that destruction has been institutionalized and coded in law. A more oppressive and tyrannical system couldn’t have and hasn’t been conceived – ever. And what continues to amaze me is that so many people, particularly women, are completely blind to the facts as they are measurable and quantifiable. Can you not see what is happening? Do you not understand what happens when you create and promote and benefit from a system that promotes child abuse and trafficking and drives men from your country and imprisons innocent men not just in small numbers but in great numbers (like one-third of all adult men in the US are victims of malicious and unilateral divorce, and one-half of all children are forcibly separated from their fathers, and 250,000 innocent men are incarcerated in forty years for false allegations of rape, restraining orders are taken out against one-million innocent men per year in the US, and 72,000 men suicide per year in the US – greater than women by a multiple of four, like in much of the world). This is real oppression and tyranny and it has the same implications now as it has throughout history. Unless women stop their unprovoked attacks on men and children, we are a doomed species.
Comment by Darryl X — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 8:55 am
I don’t think you understand, Leonie. A life under such an oppressive and tyrannical regime is virtually impossible. That’s what I’m trying to impress upon you. The facts speak for themselves. Understand that almost all the options you as a woman have at your disposal and take for granted, most men do not have.
Comment by Darryl X — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 9:08 am
Darryl you are exactly right. Real history is here in plain view for anyone who wants to look. As example, the murder of General George Patton after the 1945 judao / communist victory is one of the most concealed events in military history. At that time he was likely to be the next US president and he is credited with having discovered the secrets of WW2. A huge problem is the policies and behaviour of the present day Christian Church that are anathema in respect of their founder and the irony touches none of the fundamentalist Christians, who mindlessly support the Jewish supremist myth of chosen people status.
Comment by Larry — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 9:42 am
Leonie,
I can assure I have a very good life and I’m living it to the utmost.
It doesn’t include such paranoid thoughts as all females are out to destroy me either. Fact is I haven’t met that many women! duh!
As for the small wee hours comment – if you’d bothered to ask instead of rushing to insult you’d have discovered I don’t live in NZ.
I moved away from the feminist NZ system and feminists apparently hell-bent on wrecking my life and now thankfully live in another timezone.
I use a pen name as do many other posters here to distance myself as much as possible from feminist vengeance.
Again if you’d asked about that instead of rushing to pit me down, I could have explained that to you.
Now excuse me, I’m off for a hike in the mountains where I’ll take photos and shoot some video to share with family, followed later in the day by a good meal, glass of wine and a movie.
Not bad for someone with no life eh?
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 3:54 pm
Dear Skeptic,
Are you near to my closest “home” city being Chiang Mai, of course when I am not in FemNZ earning the coin to provide retirement funding?
Kindest regards
Paul Catton
Comment by Paul Catton — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 9:43 pm
Paul,
Why is my whereabouts of any relevance?
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 10:37 pm
Dear Skeptic,
Urban rumour has you in Chaing Mai.
Urban rumour is perhaps wrong.
However, I have interests in San Patong and Amphor Hot and as Opal is currently in Chiang Mai maybe our interests are being extended further.
Opal’s family is from Phayao down to Hot.
I married into a respected formal family, when Opal’s Mother passed away three years ago, over two thousand were in attendace inclusive of the Chiang Mai Province Governor.
I was completely humbled.
MGTOW does not apply to me and I’m glad that I struck a First Division Powerball with Opal.
Kindest regards
Paul
Comment by Paul Catton — Sun 10th April 2011 @ 11:06 pm