Father’s protest outside Families Commission
The Families Commission had made a commitment to meet next week with a small group of fathers who have been active in the men’s movement, mainly professional people myself included. A main theme for discussion was to be the high male suicide rate and its relationship to social policy and family law. However, following Jim Bagnall’s campaign in an Auckland school that was publicized in last weekend’s Sunday News, the Families Commission decided to back out of the meeting.
In response protests were organised for Wellington and Auckland.
A men’s lobby on Wednesday staged a protest outside the Families Commission in Wellington after the commission cancelled a scheduled meeting with its representatives.
About five men – including Republic of NZ party leader Kerry Bevin and Wellington psychologist Craig Jackson, who had been due to meet commission executives – protested on the footpath outside the Lambton Quay premises.Commission chief executive Paul Curry snubbed the Father’s Coalition, on his board’s advice, after becoming concerned that its supporters were planning to hand out inflammatory leaflets to boys outside schools.
Curry said the leaflet was anti-family and an attack on the well-being of young men in their formative years, with claims about society problems stemming from homes without fathers.
“The leaflet itself, we weren’t worried about – it was the tactic of handing it to boys outside schools,” he said.
On Tuesday an assembly of 40 organisations such as Plunket, Barnados and Parents’ Centres agreed to set up a Fathering Networks steering committee. “That’s the positive way to support fathers to be successful,” Mr Curry said. He says he snubbed the meeting with men about suicide because the coalition’s concerns about Family Court proceedings potentially being a trigger for suicide had been confirmed by the court’s principal judge, Peter Boshier.
As a supporter for men’s rights and needs I personally think the Father’s Coalition has been a vital part in waking up New Zealand to what is going on and to push for groups to address the issues.
As a service provider for single parents we sometimes come across the same situation as father’s groups where parents need help through mediation, family court proceedings and relationship issues that end up in the criminal court.
We have come across one case where false rape allegations were made over immigration. The man involved had property, home and contents on the line as well as looking at a long term imprisonment and fine.
Proceedings continued just after a year when the man’s mental stability was deteriorating towards suicide. The whole thing was a sham and the court took into account his well being. Enough so that the proceedings ended immediately. Mind you, the courts are a process that takes 12 months costing tax payers and wasting time.
It is imperative IMHO that anyone working with men in these situations speak up to the courts if someone’s life may be taken. An allegation is one thing, a bureaucratic process is another but a man’s life … I mean c’mon ….
I cease to be associated with the “Fathers Coalition” In my opinion this grouping brings real men into disrepute.
Comment by alastair — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 1:14 pm
Your resignation is accepted Allister – We are better off without GateKeepers – Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 2:21 pm
Sooo, should we discuss the value of both the left and right foot and how they make the movement actually move somewhere together? Or should we just bicker over which foot is better?
One foot steps: Every group protests. And how wonderful things moved so quickly.
Other foot steps: A men’s steering group. Wow, now that’s a first, isn’t it? Have they actually cared for men since the end of WWII when it was vital to rebuild?
Comment by julie — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 5:24 pm
Plunket, Barnados and Parents’ Centres set up Fathering networks – WHAT?
Having experienced Plunket and Barnados both here and overseas I would hardly call this setting up Fathering Net works by and for Fathers.
I have been rather surprised by 2 phone calls from old colleagues who I considered a little to close to the Feminist view of the way ahead who have discredited several resent questionnaires sent to so called academics who work with Fathers and their needs by the commission as part of the work they claim to have done with Fathers in the Media Releases this week.
BOTH have written tearing these carefully Word Smithsd documents to shreds – The new boys on the block could easily be sucked in.
Although BOTH have requested I swear anonymity it is clear that they will soon come out of the closet.
The way ahead is not for whimps of PC – It does NOT work – Be straight – Be honest.
Most of us have tried thru the accepted avenues for many years some over 25 (Not me) and things have steadily got worse for the **Whole Natural Biological FAMILY** with Kids losing FATHERS wholesale and thus their whole Paternal FAMILY.
Some of course lose ALL FAMILY
Time to stand
Time for ALL to stand and have their say – LOUD and clear – Proud and honest.
Onward in a fathers coalition
NO one spokes person – NO hierarchy
ALL telling their story – their way
From the old fella under the park bench to John Key himself.
Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 5:37 pm
What is a “Gatekeeper?” Together we could do so much.
Thank you Jim, you have so clearly demonstrated the falacy of the minority partner of the coalition!
Comment by alastair — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 5:58 pm
No such thing as minority in coalition – Onward Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 6:02 pm
Wiki – Gatekeeping (communication) in which a person or organization, known as a gatekeeper manages or constrains the flow of knowledge and information. – Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Comment by julie — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 6:59 pm
Subject Fathers Coalition – Jim Bagnall School Leaflets
To: [email protected]
Dear Theresa Cowie,
I heard Paul Currie say that Jim Bagnall’s leaflets were
damaging to children, in particular young men.
I believe that these leaflets haven’t even reached printers
yet and that Paul Currie could not have seen a leaflet.
If this is correct, then how has Paul Currie formed his
opinion?
Does Paul Currie have an adult understanding of the role of
free speech, ill informed and well informed, on social
development in our democracy?
Given his role as a well paid civil servant for Families
Commission, such knowledge would be expected.
I don’t know what Jim Bagnall will put into his leaflets. I
could hazard a shrewd guess.
I find it difficult to imagine that children of age 16 years
could be damaged significantly, whatever was said in these
leaflets.
I challenge you to defend your report of Paul Currie’s
comments.
It seems to me that your report might have been thrown
together hastily and without really checking on the
background facts involved.
As a result, it seems that your report has ended up being a
little misleading. I hope that you can tidy up this issue.
Suicide almost always reflects anger turned silently
inwards. Your report seemed to confuse outward anger and
self destructive anger turned inwards.
In this same vein, you mentioned suicide of men, when they
are suddenly and wrongfully denied access to their children.
Are you so insensitive as to ignore that when women are in
a similar situation, that their rate of committing suicide
is quite similar to men’s (ie about 0.1 to 0.3% of parents
suddenly and wrongly separated from their children will have
killed themself, within 12 months). It may not occur as
often, but when it does, the loss is just as bad, especially
for the children left behind.
Whether they be man or woman, we should try to prevent these
needless deaths and the flow on consequences for their
children.
It may be that women’s suicide in this situation is harder
to see in the suicide statistics that are gathered, due to
the relatively low figures.
I cannot see that suicide on forced separation from children
is a men’s or women’s issue.
This debate just wastes time that should be spent on the
tiny low cost changes required to reduce these needless and
sad losses.
Best regards,
Murray Bacon.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 7:02 pm
Dear Readers,
The “Fathers Coalition” should be read without capitalization thus in legal form it is the fathers coalition.
Any and every father is a member by virtue of paternity.
There is no subscribed membership, no annual fees etc.
The forming of this coalition for fathers emanated from the continual and significant atrocities committed towards men as reported of Family Court bias activity.
Further discussion from stalwart advocates for men decided that action needed to be taken against the profiteers of family breakdown.
This action was undertaken with the “radical” protesting outside of notorious Family orientated legal workers homes (Lawyers, Judges, Report writers).
This action was successful, provided a breakthrough and was commended overseas by most of the MRA movements.
I was a father facing said “alleged” atrocities, they are documented comprehensively within and outside of this forum.
I have been completely vindicated, thus I am also able to provide the assistance for others.
But honestly, I am sick and tired of the continual in-fighting that affect issues regarding men and families, and the portrayal that everyones own agenda is the “only way” forward.
Both my funding and participation for many different ventures that suggested recourse from the Systemic Abuse of the Male, provided result.
I am really no longer affected by this debate except for providing sagacious advice and accommadation when needed by virtue of my own promises.
My Kindest Regards
Paul Catton
East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
(09) 271 3020
“Of a fathers coalition”
Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 7:13 pm
Very important groups Jim. They are established for one so can help fathers and they have the ability to get funding even from business.
Plunket is wonderful. My husband and I went together for baby check-ups. They didn’t treat him badly. Also I think fathers need a lot of support in this area and men’s groups and other professionals would be pleased to see them father friendly as Warwick Pudney suggested and worked towards. Organisations networking to help men is not a bad thing.
I don’t think servicing men means PC whimping. Waitakere is giving attention to the needs of homeless men. Are groups and individuals who care and help men in need really PC whimps?
Is it OK if men tell their story differently than you, Jim? If yes, then there should be no issue.
Warm regards.
Comment by julie — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 7:18 pm
Hi Paul
You say “But honestly, I am sick and tired of the continual in-fighting that affect issues regarding men and families, and the portrayal that everyones own agenda is the “only way” forward.”
Look again- there is just one man beating himself up- Julie is the only person left who bothers to respond to him.
Please continue to stay on-message, and disregard this sideshow. The rest of us are all on the same side as you are.
Comment by John Brett — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 9:19 pm
Julie,
Thank you for your erudite reply. I am still uncertain though how it applies to me?
Comment by alastair — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 10:09 pm
Ref post #9, well said Murray.
Comment by amfortas — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 10:14 pm
So many ‘saviors’ scrambling for a piece of the pie,
Alienated fathers suiciding won’t bother asking why.
Children deprived, paternal family smashed,
The same old rhetoric endlessly rehashed.
You won’t get behind Jim and support his leaflet drop,
Just goes to prove you’re threatened by his strop.
16 year old schoolboys deserve to know the truth,
Onwards Jim! let the pretenders ignore blatant proof.
Goodonya Jim for stirring the pot,
Shame on many others – you turf defending lot.
Comment by Skeptik — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 11:18 pm
It doesn’t apply to you in the real sense. It is a bad taste tactic. (they are the nicest words I can think of to call it)
You have a database of group members. You are a gatekeeper to anyone outside the group who wants to take over.
Comment by julie — Fri 24th July 2009 @ 11:19 pm
Go Jim! and anyone else who pushes back. I would be happy for my 16yr old son, whom I have custody of, to receive a pamphlet that warns him of any perils in life. I believe it would help reinforce what I’ve already cautioned him about. It could save his life.
The truth is still the truth whether embarrassed bureaucrats like it or not.
They’re civil servants with civil responsibilities. They just need to get off their arses and do what we’re paying them to do instead of acting precious.
They have the mentality of a white person who crosses the road when they see a brown person. One man farts and they’re disgusted at us all. A BIG FART to you Femilies Commission. You’ve won the FART AWARD for the week.
I’d love a copy of the pamphlet and permission to print some off if possible please.
[email protected]
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 25th July 2009 @ 1:44 am
Julie,
You stated “You have a database of group members. You are a gatekeeper to anyone outside the group who wants to take over.”
I have no such database! I have a database of violent females presently being converted to word as quickly as time permits and mi typing finger allows. I have reached page 8 of an estimated 15. The purpose of this exercise is to have it freely available to all. Gatekeeper???
Comment by alastair — Sat 25th July 2009 @ 2:06 am
Oh, now that throws a spanner in the works. lol Then I don’t know what else to say.
I have no other idea unless …. maybe you are a gatekeeper because you have a website. BTW, do you have a website?
I don’t know what else we all have in common to all be called gatekeepers.
Comment by julie — Sat 25th July 2009 @ 2:50 am
Can we see the pamphlet?
Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 25th July 2009 @ 10:26 am
Please note that the Jim who is doing the paphlet drop is JIM BAGNALL not Jim Bailey who is calling us all gatekeepers and beating himself up here.
Jim Bagnall is the founder and a trustee of the Project Reunion Trust, I am also a trustee. Jim is not on the internet at all. We have a meeting of the trust on Monday, I will ask if I can release a copy of the pamphlet, and any information about plans for distribution.
john Brett
Comment by John Brett — Sun 26th July 2009 @ 9:30 am
John, its just as well Jimmy is not on the internet – You and your other GateKeeper mates would have been chasdised and those on thrown off the trust long ago.
In fact I will ask that there is a reality check about your destructive actions toward me and Javan while Jim has stood with me in DEMOS and many meeting with WINZ over the sexism I and 100’s of others have discovered
Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Sun 26th July 2009 @ 2:46 pm
Jim, you deserve to defend yourself. But you lie by saying Jim Bagnall will fight all of us just to support you.
He hears everything that is written. And he is not calling us gatekeepers.
You have lost my respect over this. Build Jim. Stop being a loud mouth only. You don’t seem incapable to me.
Comment by julie — Sun 26th July 2009 @ 10:16 pm
Thanks Julie, I also would like to see a copy. Can it be converted to PDF.
Comment by alastair — Sun 26th July 2009 @ 11:18 pm
“We don’t believe in targeting young boys with negative attitudes.”
He rejected the coalition’s complaints that the commission had been captured by a feminist agenda, and acted against the “natural family” by not being inclusive of fathers.
“We’re doing a lot of work with fathers,” he said.
On Tuesday an assembly of 40 organisations such as Plunket, Barnados and Parents’ Centres agreed to set up a Fathering Networks steering committee.
“That’s the positive way to support fathers to be successful,” he said.
Targeting boys with facts and truth is not indicative of having a negative attitude. All boys should be forewarned about any government intrusion in to family life that results in DEATH FOR MEN. My son won’t be a victim of any low-life sexist-abuser if I can help it Ms Curry.
Asking big-Sister to help with fathering issues is proof of idiocy. What low-brow would ask a rapist for advice to help her victims while arrogantly ignoring her victims?
3.8 Men commit suicide for every 1 woman in New Zealand and Curry wants help from the girls to fix this?… CLOWN!!
The Femilies Commission is an arrogant low-brow sexist-abuser! I think we need to start a Sexist-Abuser Register to help warn all males.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Mon 27th July 2009 @ 12:28 am
Mmmmmmm Have a deeper look. Female NZ = 32 equal with Canada, But male = 28th. Bet if that was the other way around there would be a royal commission under way.
The statement “We don’t believe in targeting young boys with negative attitudes.” does this mean we may target young boys who have positive attitudes!
I keep Violent females database, about to be released in word.
Maybe we need one of females to take out a P.O.
Comment by alastair — Mon 27th July 2009 @ 1:08 am
hi,just want to stay that plunket is not there for fathers,i have asked for plunket book from my ex and she has that me it is missing,the reason being she tells me she it breast feeding still and i have nothing to prove this wrong as she tells me lies all the time, i have conacted plunket for a copy of this book, and they told me there are only interested in the health of my child.surely the health of a child is time spent with a father as well as lying mother?
i am very disapointed with plunket now
Comment by jason — Tue 18th August 2009 @ 8:26 am
Of course Plunket, like many other community organisations are not there for Men. They are funded from MSD via CYF. He who paysthe piper calls the tune.
Alastair
Honarary Gatekeeper!
Comment by alastair — Tue 18th August 2009 @ 8:52 am