Men’s refuge proposed in Tauranga
Denise Rewi, Tauranga Women’s Refuge advocate wants more responsibility put on male perpetrators of domestic violence. She says a men’s refuge for perpetrators of men’s violence would put the focus in the right place.
Hmm, I had to ponder on this and make a few phone calls to see if this was something the collective of women’s refuges had their hand on. From the information I have been given, the answer is “No” but I think it might be put on the table now for discussion.
Angry Harry, a well known and respected men’s online advocate has been saying this all along.
If the feminists and the women’s groups were really concerned about domestic violence against women, they would be demanding that aggressing men were given the option of getting help.
And the fact that they vigorously oppose providing any help to men says a lot
At the moment men are sent to anger management classes which we are aware is not working well because a one size fits all doesn’t work.
However, women’s refuges do not need to have a one size fits all. They cater to the individual and the circumstances.
When women are aggressive, they say, “It was defence”, “A man somewhere in her life made her this way”, “She has a drug or alcohol problem.” Women in New Zealand are helped each and every time they pick up the phone.
But men get nothing like the women. Zilch. Zero. Or if they do it is GIVEN under circumstances of taking the blame for women’s woes. Where does their individual circumstances come into play?
Angry Harry says the death toll for men has dropped over the decades because women have their refuges and helpline while women’s deaths have stayed the same because men have nowhere to get help.
“Typically women go to a women’s refuge often with their children after a domestic abuse incident”, says Denise.
So true.
Some of those who Tauranga Women’s Refuge works with are forced to complete uproot, change their identities or leave the country. “Why should he be allowed to roam about and do what ever he wants and she has to go in hiding?” asks Denise.
Fair enough question. IMO. But in reality if the abuse is that bad, the perpetrator is looked up in prison and if that is the case maybe uprooting the family is the only choice. Yet I am wondering if Denise is also frustrated at the amount of women that don’t want to be uprooted. After all, it is a big thing to do.
“The responsibility is always put on the women’s shoulders but the male just stays in his normal environment. The focus is in the wrong place” adds Denise.
I don’t think uprooting the man is worthwhile considering in all cases but refuges for men will mean more diversity to help fix the issues.
NEW SYSTEM SUGGESTED
Denise says men convicted of abusing their partners could go to the men’s refuge under a home detention system.
“Men can come and go and work but they have to be back by a certain time.”
That to me is one option for one type of family.
So far, I am thinking this is good. Men can be helped by men, supported by peers and work through issues while living in the real world…… oh, and there can be relationship counselling where the women attend and children can see their dad in a safe environment without paying for supervised access.
But what do others think?
Source: Bay Sun Newspaper, Friday 3rd July 2009
An excellently researched proposal Julie. May I pop it on Pauls- news? or are you?
Comment by Alastair — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 4:56 pm
All good stuff,,another reason they can not uproot the man,,is that they need to keep that man in he’s present location so as to go to work and pay the IRD.
Comment by Mark J — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 6:21 pm
East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families.
(09) 271 3020
Fair call.
Sorry, I disagree.
As domestic violence is equitable by both of the gender, resources need to be provided for “safe haven” encompassing fathers with their children being victims.
Male perpetrators of Domestic Violence do not require refuge, the alleged victims with children are ferried to “Womens Refuges”, currently at “minimal occupancy” and funded to the tune of $500,000+ per unit (Taxpayer, Sponsorship and National Appeal).
Male victims of domestic violence have and remain ignored by the State and its agencies.
There is no funding for my initiation of providing a refuge for men and families, only a continued threat of arrest by the Police.
Give Denise her due, she is quick off the mark, instigating yet further business, thus perhaps utilising empty Womens Refuges stemming from the onset of forthcoming Police initiated Temporary Protection Orders.
If Denise is sincere in wishing to find solutions not finance, she has an opportunity for base connections and perhaps the medium for progress,
As always in
Kindest Regards
Paul Catton
East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
(09) 271 3020
Comment by Paul Catton — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 8:13 pm
Rigtht-On Paul – Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:37 pm
So femmie advocates want a detention centre for men who are deemed to have committed DV (without corroborating evidence needed!!!!!!!).
Sounds like the usual NZ feminist manhate bullshit to me.
For goodness sake Julie think it through …….
a detention centre with curfews for men whilst women’s refuge goes on as it is unvetted for it’s stirring up yet more manhate.
tick…….tick……..tick…….
Comment by Skeptik — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 1:02 am
Pretty much. Women’s refuges detain women through the children.
I am sure it does.
I don’t have the magic wand to fix domestic problems. This is just one proposed solution. Of course there is not enough resources to have centres for all men involved in DV and I doubt you will get as many male volunteers as you have women.
But don’t forget men’s issues are not just about ‘innocent men’ who are victims to women. The men’s movement is responsible for all men’s behaviours as the women’s movement is.
But in saying all this …. separating men and women is not going to solve the issues for most which I’d say nearly all refuges understand.
Comment by julie — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 9:19 am
Julie, I’m not sure what you mean by “women’s refuges detain women through the children”; can you enlighten me?
Also, I don’t agree that “the men’s movement is responsible for all men’s behaviours as the women’s movement is”. Each man/woman is responsible for his/her own behaviour. The men’s movement can be held responsible for the influences it has brought to bear on men, and this certainly has not been to encourage men towards violence. The feminist movement on the other hand has encouraged women to become more violent in various ways and should take responsibility for that.
This Women’s Refuge proposal, to force men into a detention centre without any fair trial, is one that Hitler would have admired for use against Jews.
Also, the claim that women have to be uprooted is without good evidence. It is the man who is thrown out on the street under NZ DV law and disallowed from returning to the neighbourhood. It is the man who is almost always uprooted.
Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 10:00 am
I know of three children would have benefited from having a place where their Dad could have found genuine REFUGE for them all after almost two decades of practically being held prisoner by a violent, mentally unstable, Protection Order wielding ex-wife who threatened to kill their children if he dared leave her. She had already made a genuine attempt on their lives and he believed that she would do so again if he left her. She certainly had him convinced.
Families need a GENUINE REFUGE FOR FATHERS & THEIR CHILDREN rather than another extension of the existing misandric Women’s Refuge. It is insulting that they dare to call it a Mens Refuge. It is NOT!
Funding issues? Volunteer issues? Under-use? PIGS BUM!!! How difficult would it be to have a contract with a Motel(or Motels) in every town that could provide the ‘bricks & mortar’ to temporarily house victims of domestic violence committed by women? The cost savings are obvious. There is zero cost until that REFUGE is used.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 10:31 am
They should be refuges for people of all genders. That’s my 2 cents worth.
Comment by Scott B — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 11:05 am
There’s always excuses why things can’t or shouldn’t be done for males.
Anyone who thinks there is no need for a refuge for the partners of women and their children needs a one on one with me.
It would be too easy to have Motel Owners scramble to sign a contract that might increase their revenue as long as they’re prepared to agree to some basic terms like being available 24/7 when called upon to house a family. The Police could be advised of a family requiring emergency refuge and could then arrest any woman seen involved in any dispute at that Motel during any alert period. Volunteers? Someone else can think of that answer. The budget for something like this would be minimal. It would probably cost less to fund than one Parliamentary Minister’s annual perks.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 2:53 pm
I’ll do my best.
You know that many board members of women’s refuges have been the board members of CYFS since women’s refuges started. Well, they work hand in hand. Some centres make contracts with women where if they leave they loose custody of their children. In fact, it is normal for women to be coerced to do things through the children. It is not just women’s refuges policy BTW.
You know that the men’s movement has existed for decades although it has not been well organised because of differences of opinions, right?
Well, many of the men who have been involved with it and are work in prisons, with addiction, youth, the courts blah, blah, blah, just like the women’s movement does. Much of the problems the men’s movement face is around lack of funding.
Comment by julie — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 2:54 pm
The current budget is what I am sigularly able to provide.
Kindest Regards
Paul Catton
East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
(09) 271 3020
Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 6:28 pm
“correction” singularly
Regards
Paul
Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 6:31 pm
One man and up to two of his Kids – Local Police to Vet – OK @ Ratio Shed Beach Haven – Max 3 days – Charges accessed @ Interview – Basically FoodBANK prices apply – WINZ may help – Always fare but not a rescue set-up – All care and NO responsibility – Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 6:41 pm
I didn’t even notice your spelling mistake. I’m unsure what you meant by “The current budget is what I am singularly able to provide“. Were you referring to the Motel/Contract idea or something else? Sorry, I was blonde when I had hair so I’ve got an excuse :p
Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 6:42 pm
A current refuge that provides a safe environment for Men and their Families from Domestic Violence is funded as below.
Governmental funding = $0.00
Sponsorship =$0.00
National Appeal (with funded, all encompassing advertisng support) = $0.00
Input is, priceless and income self funded
Womens Refuge has funding on a pro rata basis to the tune of +$500,000 per shelter per annum.
To budget, one needs income to offset spending against.
“The current budget is what I am singularly able to provide“.
Thus, my comment.
Kindest Regards
Paul Catton
East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
(09) 271 3020
Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 10th July 2009 @ 7:26 pm
Paul;
I would like to offer my help to you in any way I can. I may not have much money as most of it goes to my ex, but I may be unemployed soon so could offer time to help. Perhaps there are others that read MENZ that are able to offer assistance too. Together we stand, divided.. we fall.
Comment by John (Doe ;) — Sat 11th July 2009 @ 12:11 am
I can also offer my time & IT resources to defend against feminasty tyranny.
You’re invited to provide any help you want to our project that will hopefully allow MEN to rate countries according to the levels of misandry as evidenced by selected key statistics. :Open Project – Status of Men Index: All contributions are welcome and appreciated.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 11th July 2009 @ 9:34 am
SickofNZ, wow! to your website. That looks like something quite serious.
I am wondering whether the online men’s movement can start making some questionnaires for men to answer that can be used for policy development.
Similar to what these Down Under women are up to.
http://tinyurl.com/m6befd
If it is professional, you can advertise it to all groups world wide.
Comment by julie — Sat 11th July 2009 @ 9:45 am
Thanks Julie, yes we’re serious about our project. The final result can be as professional looking as anyone else’s propaganda. We can construct a separate html page with sortable tables, or display that same html output within a vBulletin page using .php, which is probably more secure from the web-nasties. We’re collecting volunteers who can help in any way. This began with a simple idea. You never know, you might make a huge difference with your input. Come and help us please :).
I like your suggestion that we copy those who have already successfully accomplished what we want to achieve. Ya gotta fight fire with fire! Open that cheque book Mr Keys. We’re coming for it. :evilgrin:
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 11th July 2009 @ 10:36 am
Has anyone a copy of the Women’s Refuge advertisement screened over recent weeks as part of their appeal? Or know where I can view it?
Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 1:35 pm
Sickofnz, I am sorry I haven’t replied to this. I didn’t know this comment existed. Have you already completed this?
I have been feeling really offkey about alot of issues lately due to studying the larger picture of the global network in business so I would find this very inspiring. Does the offer still stand?
Comment by julie — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 3:12 pm
Craig Jackson should be putting in a complaint on this with the Human Rights Commission. I will be monitoring the HRC response, in relation to the judicial review proceedings I have against them with the next appearance on August 31.
The text itself will be very short. I have posted this letter to TVNZ.
Can you please provide either a CD copy or a written transcript of the recently aired advertisement for Women’s Refuge in respect of domestic violence, and advise the body in the broadcaster’s opinion best suited and equipped to consider an initial complaint about this advertisement.
Respectfully,
Benjamin Easton
Comment by Benjamin Easton — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 4:25 pm
Actually there’s very little left to do. We’ve spent the last week transferring all the information to html pages so that the site can be easily transferred between servers. I’m happy to run it from where it currently is for now so there’s no issue.
We’re just placing some finishing touches here and there and then it’ll be ready to publish. I think we’re surprised that we’re ready well before International Men’s Day (November 19th). One of us is becoming tempted to release the results early. I’m starting to feel the same way.
It’s soooo exciting :D.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 4:28 pm
Sorry, I was unaware of this development. Wonderful going. Unfortunately I am aware of people who may attempt to sabotage your server or at the least bring pressure to bear to close your account. If that eventuates, there is an overseas server already hosting a controversial NZ site. There may be room.
Comment by alastair — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 4:34 pm
Exciting indeed. I best not encourage an early publication 😉
Comment by julie — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 4:38 pm
Let them try I say. My software records all IP addresses of connecting guests. Using a proxy IP address won’t fool my security either. I use software that resolves proxy IP’s. Every illegal activity against my server is reported to Homeland Security without exception. The server is located in the U.S.A. California and covered by U.S.A. laws and protections. I think we’ll be okay but I’ll keep you in mind should things get hairy.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 4:47 pm
This will be interesting.
Comment by julie — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 4:55 pm
Same system that we use, works well against MSD ans MWF static.
Comment by alastair — Sat 1st August 2009 @ 5:32 pm
Hi SickofNZ,
I’ve just visited the Open Project — Status of Men Index.
Well done and thank-you!
It’s a great idea to have a website that men can go to in order to find out how misandric on a sliding scale those countries are!
I’m sure I wouldn’t be alone in saying I could benefit from such a resource. Only recently I broke of relations with a woman. One of the issues I faced is not knowing where I could most comfortably live with her because I didn’t have such information.
Also I agree it can be used to put pressure on the governments of those countries to tidy their acts up and become more male friendly.
Personally I’d love to see a website where I could see fairly quickly scores, say zeros for terribly misandric and ten for excellent male friendly places.
I’d also like to get a brief synopsis of any misandric practice in a country. It needn’t be long-winded, but just a summation of the issues men would face (and could advocate the changing of) should we venture there.
I suppose there needs to be some very clear markers of misandry too so folks don’t get bogged down in debating that. But from what I’ve seen of your writing on these threads you seem very clear about such.
I look forward to seeing how this project develops and wish you much success.
Please keep me up to speed with this as I will be delighted to spread it’s URL far and wide for even further viral dissemination once it’s in place.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 2nd August 2009 @ 12:12 am
Hey Skeptic, I’m sure you’ll find the information invaluable once we’ve opened the results to the public. We’ve used statistical information that is readily obtainable to rank countries against each other. The final results are displayed as a table that contains a soMENi (Status of Men Index) for each of those countries. Each country has a soMENi between 0(worst for MEN) and 100(best for MEN).
Graphics have been made for the Top Ten winners and the overall winner for ‘Best Country in the World for MEN’. They’ll be useful for any Top Ten winning country to use to attract emigrants or tourists or for any citizen of any winning country to just ‘show off’ their win. I’m still yet to make the winning graphics display page for the site but it’s on my ‘to do’ list.
We’ve constructed our main table to display each country and each of the separate factors that were used to determine the results. We’ve also made displays that separate the two categories of factors (Gap Factors and Standard Factors) with Gap Factors measuring how a country treats MEN with regard to women and Standard Factors measuring men’s well-being without regard to how well women are doing. The final results give MEN a valuable tool to help decide where they wish to live, work, pay taxes, raise their sons or simply to consider visiting for their next holiday.
We planned to discreetly post links to the official soMENi site on International Men’s Day (November 19th)on men’s support sites such as this one and then slink off to hide behind a bullet-proof glass shield to eat chippies and watch.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sun 2nd August 2009 @ 8:56 am
Urgent advice Please Im wanting to no id i have enough grounds to apply to have
a protection order removed if i have a text from my ex saying she knows i wont hurt her or her child it also goes on to say that she doesnt want to remove it
so her child has something there that makes her feel safe…
long long story daughter is only scared of me because of things she heard her mother
was saying about me to a friend of hers
Comment by Barry — Mon 14th September 2009 @ 12:11 pm
No, She goes on to say “That her (Your?) child has something there that makes her feel safe. Sounds like there may be good communication there though. Don’t forget a P/O allows you to co-habit, BUT you MUST leave as soon as she says so. That is the breach.
Comment by alastair — Mon 14th September 2009 @ 12:27 pm
Thanks for that alastair An no her daughters not mine shes hers from another relationship. I guess its ok i have contact with the exe as ive asked her if shes wanted me to stop emailing but she says lets just play it by air
and she is the one that has recently started texting again and has asked me at times to text.. Hard situation its like do i keep every text as proof that she has said contacts fine incase she ever gets upset and decides to punish me some more or do i trust her intentions are sincere
Comment by barry — Thu 17th September 2009 @ 10:31 am