Where is the Legal Help??
Hi there,
About 6 months ago I applied for day-to-day care of my 16 month year old daughter. We eventually done counseling and came to an agreement. My ex and I were still trying to be friends and we still having a sexual relationship, and everything looked fine.
Then in the space of bout twenty fours hours this all changed. She took it to a judicial conference and claimed I was violent towards her when we were in a relationship, I have drug and alcohol problems, I suffer from depression and was on medication (my doctor is still trying to find that in my medical file ), and my house was damp and moldy and smelled of cigarettes.
The courts have “directed” me to do anger management, drug and alcohol counseling, a parenting course, a letter of welling being from my GP and a social workers report.
I recently lost my job due to re-injury and don’t even know how I am supposed to pay for all this and have no clue what to do. I am on legal aid, and so far every lawyer I have used has been pretty useless but im to skeptical about representing myself.
The current orders are that I see my daughter, supervised at her home every Sunday from 12pm until 2pm but her mother and her family are either not letting me see her or the few times they have they kick me out forty or so minutes early.
When I leave my daughter she becomes very distressed and starts crying and screaming, clinging to my leg.
I don’t mind the interim orders but am worried about the effect this is all having on my daughter. My lawyers dont tell me what is going on half the time and i feel they just roll over for the other party in court, no contesting the allegations or anything.
Is there anyway to get this all moving faster?? Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated.
Yours sincerely,
Casey Ryken
Obviously my earlier advice wasn’t what you wanted to hear, but until the laws and the courts change, I feel it is the best advice.
Comment by Scott B — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:02 pm
sorry but which earlier advice was this?? im just learning my way around this site 🙂 so i dont think i have been able to read anything you may have said?? could you please repost here
Comment by crijken — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:10 pm
haha well I can’t remember which thread it was in, so I will just re-write it…
Basically I think you should just walk away, and wait until your child turns 18 or so. After nearly 10 years of trying/fighting through the system and trying to use logic and reasoning with my ex and having it all thrown back in my face, I know it just isn’t worth it. My health has suffered, my family has suffered but above all of that, and so much worse than any of it… my child has suffered the most. My story isn’t even as bad as some of the guys on here. I am lucky enough not to be the recipient of a protection order or worse.
It’s probably not what you need to hear/read but that’s my advice/warning.
Comment by Scott B — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:19 pm
At least you are receiving legal aid, I spent a small fortune and got no-where!
Comment by Scott B — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:21 pm
What happened to change her was she got advised to see a lawyer. You got milked by your lawyer. What part of the country are you in? Do you have a local mens group or UoF branch. Get along there for some support.
Comment by Allan Harvey — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:22 pm
Sorry to say but, unless you are willing to pay for a very good lawyer, any legal aid lawyer is going to put you second to the rest of their cases. I found this the case when I had a Lawyer representing me for about 6 months, when ever I contacted him, it would take a couple of weeks to get back to me even in an urgent situation. It got to the point where I went back to representing myself.
One thing you will find with the family court, from the storys I have heard is What the woman says is Truth until proven otherwise, and even when proven otherwise, the court still thinks there is an element of truth, and what the man says is false untill proven true, and even then, unless it is substantial truth such as abuse drugs, mental issues, it wont weigh in your favor at all.
essentialy as alot of men I know find themselves fighting a continuing lossing battle, keep your mind on the kids, and not the ex, and dont let the “fight” get to you too much, tell yourself your doing the best you can.
Comment by nzleagle — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:22 pm
I know that sometimes the courts don’t work in our (fathers) way, but for me walking away isn’t an option. If there is any chance I can even get weekend access, it will all be worth it. There must be a way to beat the biased system we call family court. I don’t only want to do this for my daughter and myself, but to show all men out there that there is hope, no matter how small. I would hate to go 18 or so years without truly getting to know my girl. Two hours a fortnight which is what my ex wants, because she thinks any more is just to much for her, is really not enought to build a proper bond with my child.
I am very sorry to hear that you had a bad run with the system, but i can and wont give up on my daughter. im tired of seeing her upset every time i have to leave her.
My advice to all men would be never say never!! There is hope, no matter how small, if we can at least get some movement it will be all worth it.
My plan is just to prove i don’t have all the issues my ex claims and attack her credibility, while holding firm to the fact we are both good parents and providers but is my daughter stays in her care, it wont be good for my daughter as me ex will alienate her from me.
Comment by crijken — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:29 pm
I know… I said for years i could not nor would not give up, but it was the only thing in the end i could do.
Comment by Scott B — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:35 pm
Sorry, just read the other comments so will post again.. im not very good at this so sorry if i say something not quite how i mean. i am from hawkes bay, and there is basically no support for men here.
I think it would be handy for the family courts to use case law, like the criminal courts, where if a judge has ruled a certain way for certain situations before, all the judges have to rule the same way in exactly the same situations. there is some interesting sites with all the legislation’s and some “case law”. are we allowed to post links here??
Alot of the cases i have read, show that men in my situation can win. the biggest problem other that biased judges and lawyers that i can see is that there is no standard of proof in the family court system.
I guess all i can do is follow the directions given to me by the courts. i passed the drug test today and anger, drug and alcohol assessments, so hopefully that will be a few points on my side 🙂
Comment by crijken — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:35 pm
Allan (Earlier, this thread) echoed what I would say. Lawyers only exist to remove any asset you may have from your control. visit http://www.uof.org.nz
What area are you in?
Comment by Alastair — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:36 pm
Scott, i’m very sorry to hear about your situation. I couldnt imagine how hard it must have all been for you. I guess i can only hope i do something right with this and convince the judge im a safe parent. I have never touched drugs in my life, and only drink the occasional beer. never hit anyone (male or female) in my life so if i can prove this then surely i will at least get weekends??
I contacted union of fathers in Napier where i live but they were really no help at all. im pretty much representing myself as it is, with my new lawyer hopefully just there as back up to get me through the process and do all the “grunt” work.
Comment by crijken — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:42 pm
Casey-R,
1 – You need a good support group
2 – You need to chose ONE Only McKenzie friend from that group
3 – These are not issues to be sorted by committee
4 – We all have our own ways to acheive the end you want, chose with care and stay in charge
5 – Hawkes bay has huge support for Men and their Families
6 – Over the years they have acheived much bigger Demos and groups than most other comparable areas
7- If you care to Email with your contact details – I will send them on to ALL in your area, on the **FAMILY Friendly Data-Base?** and those that chose will contact you.
Onward – Jim – [email protected]
Comment by Jim Bailey — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 10:55 pm
Feel sad for you… But, guess you could do very little at this stage because no matter how much you fight or how much you plead the court I doubt you would get anything in favor of you… Rather I would suggest to be quite for a few months / years and then try to prove to the court that there is no threat or harm from your side. May be the courts might re-think… or may be if we all are lucky enough and the courts start to be gender neutral, we might stand some chance of getting justice….
Comment by Men At Risk — Mon 6th July 2009 @ 11:43 pm
“The courts have “directed” me to do anger management, drug and alcohol counseling, a parenting course, a letter of welling being from my GP and a social workers report.”
This will be the problem for you, as far as the courts are concerned you needed to do all of these things cause you were a risk and will be a risk of re-offending!
Comment by Scott B — Tue 7th July 2009 @ 1:10 am
I suggest you grow a spine and stop whinging. You know very well what the courts and this woman have done to you and you are whinging for more money to appease them? Do you really think it will ever stop? Dont give in, thats my advice.
Comment by miggy — Tue 7th July 2009 @ 5:10 am
lol i am far from whinging, just dont really know what the next steps are. i dont plan on giving in at all.
I dont see how the courts can claim im a violent risk when i have no record or any history of violence, drug or alcohol abuse and with how common it is for women (and some men) to make false allegations in these situation. our family courts are a shambles!! And surely if i do these things, justice will prevail?? I got through the system relatively quick though, judial hearing was 3 weeks ago and final hearing is set for 12th of august. If i lose, on to high court!!!
Comment by crijken — Tue 7th July 2009 @ 10:38 am
Because the family courts don’t rely on evidence, that’s how.
I don’t think you’re whinging.
Comment by Scott B — Tue 7th July 2009 @ 12:41 pm
Just stay strong and stand as a man in this joke of a famly court system,, if you protest to loud on how these so called judges judge you , it will only get worst for you.
Unless you can come up with any damming information on your ex and give this to your lawyer, you will have to do what the courts have ordered you to do,this machine is fueled on womans rights and even though the family courts say they are doing the best for the child/children,they will do as they please with you.
One day the family courts will get the shake up thats required and put people who know what they are doing in charge and help people like us to be fathers to our children and stop this destruction that ex’s wants and at this time gets through the FAMILY COURT .
Stay strong .
Comment by Mark J — Tue 7th July 2009 @ 6:07 pm
Our Femily Courts don’t appear to be bothered by the credibility of any allegation if it is made by the female parent.
I won custody after three long years of seeing my children suffer under the mental health issues apparently affecting my ex-wife. It cost me $10,500 & 3years of my holidays being used up in Caught instead of resting and recuperating from my work as if it wasn’t stressful enough paying $125 per/hour to my solicitor to defend each new lie that SHE presented as fact in her affidavits.
My advice would be to turn your back on the complete misandric process and have a life. I would suspect that your ex might pressure you to have your daughter much more if you refuse any contact whatsoever until she becomes child-focused instead of using the Femily Caught and your daughter to punish you. Mothers regularly commit violence against their children by refusing to allow them to have a reasonable relationship with their fathers for dubious reasons. The Femily Caught supports this violence against children. That violence committed against your daughter and you will not cease until you take control and make it stop. Turn your back on violence and institutions that foster violence toward children.
I’m yet to see a Femily Caught Judge with balls enough to say “Stop being a selfish bitch and think about your kid!” They’re not skilled enough to notice a mother who is psychologically abusive toward her child. Either that or they just don’t care. Yes, Family Court Judges have pygmy balls and fat wallets.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Wed 8th July 2009 @ 11:17 am
i can pretty much relate to everything thats been said here..the family court system along with winz are the most sexist bias bullshit organisations i can think of…between the 2 of them i have been rolled bowled and arseholed and only get what i have when the x agrees…the courts have never listened to me…they take all the x’s lies as truth and do what she asks when she asks…and that goes for the times ive had full custody as well…when she screams abuse and wants the kids back the courts jump…im the glorified babysitter on a rollercoaster ride with no control…do what im told when im told…family court sux bigtime
Comment by ford — Thu 9th July 2009 @ 12:06 pm
what legal help?…when i went through my court case at times i was convinced my lawyer was working for the other side…i felt like everything was orchestrated and they had a set plan to follow and no matter what i tried to put forward wasnt allowed or deemed to be inappropriate…i also found that i couldnt get a male lawyer to represent me so im sitting in court…my female lawyer…my x being female herself and her female lawyer and and at times a female judge or a male judge being anti ‘abuse’ as claimed by my x…its a struggle when a man is up against it like that…X argued all the way to court then offered what i wanted in the first place…when i tried to explain that the judge told me to shut up…i had the head (female)of wanganui community law office tell me at the end of the day noone gives a f#%k about your kids…a while later a situation arose where i engaged another lawyer..only 1 i could find was female…she called me a liar on the ph and then had the cheek to charge me $1200 for stuff all…i felt she took her opportunity to sting me financially…family courts are very sexist in my opinion and im sure in alot of others too…men would go far if they had a nice set of DD’s….i could start on about winz too and 90% of the contact points with them are female also but thats another story…good luck…cos ur gonna need lots of it
Comment by ford — Sat 11th July 2009 @ 10:47 am
The sad thing is that as men we are (usually) the ones who don’t have custody and so we are the ones who are always having to prove that we are worthy to see our children and provide reasons as to why it would benefit our children to have us in their lives! How backwards is that? We use all our time, energy, and money on giving all these reasons and evidence when the only real answer is that we love our children and they love us. (Or at least they should be given the opportunity to!)
It should be the women (or primary caregiver)who are having to provide true and hard evidence as to why they don’t want us in our childrens lives. The fact that they don’t want us to be should be evidence enough and sufficient grounds for them to lose custody. But they are just allowed to make ridiculous and dangerous statements and accusations without any need for proof at all.
This Mr Boshier, is the reason why there IS a bias in the family courts. Change this and I’ll shut up.
Comment by Scott B — Sun 12th July 2009 @ 10:09 am
Reasons a mother will lose custody in the NZ Family Court:
Perjury – NO
Defamation of character of father – NO
Mother is a drug addict – NO
Supplying minor children with marijuana – NO
Supplying minor children with alcohol – NO
Refusing children access with their father – NO
Ignoring Family Court Order to allow children access to their father – NO
Ignoring Family Court Order to Enforce access – NO
Alienating children from their father – NO
Lodging false complaints at having Protection Order breached – NO
Punching minor child in stomach for indicating a wish to live with Dad – NO
Non attendance of school of minor child – NO
Deliberate attempts to extend proceedings – NO
Abusive phone calls to the father while hiding behind a Protection Order – NO
Defamatory telephone calls made to the father’s employer – NO
Previous history of attempts to murder their children – NO
Psychologist’s report alluding to delusion of mother – NO
Psychologist’s report recommending psychiatric examination of mother – NO
Psychologist’s report recommending day to day care of children by father – NO
Refusal by mother to attend Anger Management Program – NO
Refusal by mother to attend Drug & Alcohol program – NO
Mother threatens to commit suicide in front of children – YES
Guys, STOP paying for a service that you’re not receiving. Fathers are disadvantaged in our Family Courts, even when the mother is a psychotic liar.
REF: FP NO. 115/89
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sun 12th July 2009 @ 11:35 am
i can relate to psychotic liars…i endured 2 yrs of solid verbal abuse b4 i broke and swore back…then off she ran to her lawyer claiming verbal mental and physical abuse…i couldnt believe what she said…all these issues my x had all of a sudden were mine…x would scream her tits off at me in front of the kids then claim i did it and didnt care what they heard…she would break things and once waved a knife at me then stated she feared for her safety…she once threw baby through the air and she freefell into her cot and i threatened x with the smae treatment if i ever saw her do that again…that came out like id threatened to smash her over for no reason…no mention of her treatment of a small child…x had kids to another guy and was on the dpb and had all the access and barnadoes caregivers worked out so she never had the kids but was collecting maximum $$$…both sets of kids always crossed over at some point and hardly got to see each other but her point when i wanted kids was ‘how will they see each other’…many times i would suppose to b picking up kids and would b told they wernt available…many times i would b waiting for her to pick them up and not turn up till the next day or later…she nominated a drop off/pick up point for the kids and i entered 1 day while she was there dropping off the kids..she waited till after my access to ring the cops but then when she entered the drop off house when i was there she claimed she didnt have time to play games…she would use the protection order as her means of telling me what to do and when to do it…her oldest son (16)at the time went thru cypfs system for sexually abusing his half sis…then 8…more recently my eldest girl (14)accused her stepfather of similar and he was under investigation…all gone by the wayside and the kids still live there… authorities dont seem to concerned…when i stressed my concern all i was told ‘investigation closed..goodbye’…so here i am…the brunt of someones controlling manipulating games
Comment by ford — Sun 12th July 2009 @ 12:34 pm
Hi SicKofNZ;
While my friends and I have seen some of these points, we haven’t experienced all of those. I would like to write a handbook on the family court to explain to the public the issues that there are but need to back up all claims. I think such a book may help bring the mis-justices to light as it will explain to men and women how to abuse the system thus highlighting how bad it is.
If you or anyone on here is able to supply information that would enable me to back up claims such as the one you mentioned then I would appreciate you dropping a line.
Happy for anyone who is interested in co-writing it.
My email for this [email protected]
John
Comment by John (Doe ;) — Sun 12th July 2009 @ 3:08 pm
It might take some time to do but I’ll be in contact with you via email. All my claims are 100% accurate. My adult children, who were alienated by the ex, have recently disclosed information that suggests some very serious allegations including many more attempts on their lives than I was aware of. I knew of one definite instance and alerted the Police…anyway I’ll be in touch when I’ve got a handle on things here. I’m planning to apply for a P.O. along with my two independent adult daughters who also believe they need protection from her continuing madness. I separated from her 7yrs ago and I’m still receiving text threats while she remains protected by her P.O. My daughters get all kinds of crazy threats from her regularly. She’s raising another 2 kids while her partner is in jail for losing it after three years of her psyco behaviour and thumping her. She’s a professional victim if ever there was one.
Comment by SicKofNZ — Sun 12th July 2009 @ 4:38 pm