Men in early childhood education.
I just found a site dedicated to men in early childhood education.
I have no idea if these folk are incredibly brave or incredibly naive.
Check it out for yourself:
http://www.ecmenz.org/index.html
MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.
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Reply to all
Tongue in Cheek…What,you have got to be kidding me.!!!!!..Us, so called Evil Kiwi Abusing Men as in a ‘great career’ choice as a Teacher in ‘Early Child Day Care centers’….Nooooooooooo..This can happen…The Kiwi Feminists heads will be spinning on this…After all with ‘Kiwi Woman’, we as Men all just ‘potential rapists and potential pedophiles’….Remember what happen to ‘Peter Ellis’……..
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 7:06 am
And a very good morning to every one..
My email to http://www.ecmenz.org…raising my concerns about Kiwi Men working in Day care centers
Gentleman….please read
Dear Sir, I belong to ‘Menz’ forum site, a member as posted a web site relating to your group ….I am truly amazed that your group are promoting for Kiwi Men to work at Daycare Centers as a rewarding ‘career choice’…
Sir in my humble opinion with all this Extreme Kiwi Feminism of social engineering that as been occurring for the last 25 years… I will not mince my words …Where in my humble opinion, ‘Manhood’ and ‘Fatherhood’ as been very successfully ‘Demonized’ by all of this Kiwi social engineering Feminism
Good sir ,I personally feel you are putting good decent Kiwi Men in grave danger of been successfully prosecuted for a ‘False sexual allegation’ against a minor …I suggest you, and your colleges read a book called ‘A City Possessed’ this is about the Peter Ellis case….Sir in my humble opinion …. What happen to Peter Ellis was nothing more then a Kiwi feminist witch hunt, and personally, that mindset here New Zealand still exists by the system that all Men are ‘potential rapists and potential pedophiles’…I will not under any circumstances let my young adult Son become a Male School Teacher here in New Zealand
Kind regards John ……
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 7:42 am
I looked into teaching at that level back in 2002.
In all of the teacher training colleges in Auckland where there were courses in Early Childhood education where there would have been several hundred students overall there were…….
zero male students.
The Peter Ellis factor no doubt.
Feminists have effectively firewalled younger children from to program them for life…….
As Plato then later the Jesuits said “Give me the child for the first seven years of their life and I will give you the man”
Comment by Skeptik — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 11:45 am
I’d actually like to teach primary school kids but I have a brain so it wont happen. Not in NZ at any rate. Perhaps as a charity in some 3rd world country.
Comment by Dave — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 12:24 pm
The Reply I recieved back from Russell Ballantyne from ‘ecmenz’….Opinions and comments ….????
I do have one particular comment I do wish to make relating to what Russell as written,which I do respectfully disagree with Russell…
But I will wait if anyone else spots it…But major ‘Kudos’ must be given to Russell and to the rest of his team for trying to get Men back into the Early Childhood education system….Brave Man…I wouldn’t even dare considered it as career choice…Personally ,I would be living in total ‘Fear’ for the dreaded ‘Finger to be pointed at me’
Kind regards to all John Dutchie
john
thanks for your correspondence
i have read that book and believe sincerely peter ellis was a victim of petty prejudices – i am also aware how such a view is common within new zealand apart from the legal branch of government which i believe has more to do with money than justice…
however i disagree with your position – having spent 27 years in the sector i am not at all concerned about accusations and believe that society itself has seen the damage that travesty of justice delivered with men being pushed away from children because of potential impropriety. the result has been that in the last 20 years men have disengaged from children and children have suffered for this. we also know that children are abused by women as well as men and that a child is much safer in an early childhood centre than their home in terms of abuse.
unlike you i am prepared to take this issue on head first and believe the way we change such attitudes is to get more men working with children and hence our campaign. Early childhood is a great career and it needs both men and women and our agenda is to show that there are many men who want to work with children and that they can be supported by the likes of us.. Whatever career you choose there will always be potential for discomfort especially if it is as gendered as teaching is becoming. However i believe that with good policies and sound practice these can be mitigated and the benefits that the male perspective add to child raising far outway any perceived risk. Children need men in their lives and we are very focused on saying that the vast majority of men are good men and have much to offer to young children. to avoid this career supports such prejudice as you outline and that also then would be a travesty.
John i thank you for taking time to write about your concerns and i am only too happy to answer any further queries
Russell Ballantyne
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 2:39 pm
peter ellis was a victim of petty prejudices – petty?????? Go tell him that!
any perceived risk – it’s nothing but suicide!
to avoid this career supports such prejudice – No, it is the smart thing to do until society changes!
Comment by Scott B — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 3:13 pm
Reply to Scott B
Bang ….!!!!!!! Well done, Scott B…My thoughts exactly …..’petty prejudices’..Like hell it was…!!!!…. No, what happen to Peter Ellis had a major ripple effect thought out N.Z Society which is still been felt today…
But there are a few more…And one of them is quite a important one……Come on peoples ….there some real smart cookies on here….
Kind regards to Scott B…John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 3:29 pm
Well the other three for me are…
believe that society itself has seen the damage that travesty of justice delivered with men being pushed away from children because of potential impropriety – really? Is that why everything is ok now? And if so, why the need for your group?
is to get more men working with children and hence our campaign. – sounds like a trap!
men have disengaged from children – We have??????? Not by choice!
Comment by Scott B — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 4:01 pm
Reply Scott B…Here is another for you Scot B,
Apart from one other Government Department…I beg to differ Russell here’s another one ..’The Ministry of Woman’s affairs’ of N.Z..And why do you think our Helen Clark came rushing back to N.Z for…???? To make sure that this department wasn’t shut down…This, with ex prime minister Jenny Shipley was Helen Clark pride and joy with the rest of her Feminist cohorts
Kind regards John Dutchie
‘i am also aware how such a view is common within new zealand apart from the legal branch of government which i believe has more to do with money than justice…’
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 5:49 pm
Another reply to Scott B
‘men have disengaged from children — We have??????? Not by choice!…
And that was exactly the game plan that the Kiwi Feminists had in mind when Peter Ellis was stitched up..To purposely get Men out of the Education system…And they nearly succeeded too…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 5:52 pm
Food for thought
Really…..????.Neither was ‘Peter Ellis’ so called ‘Concerned’
..Might I suggest you good sir, have a quiet word with Peter Ellis ….And see what sheer ‘Hell’ Peter Ellis went though
…I can guarantee you Russell you will be singing a very different tune with your statement below…Bet you after what Peter Ellis experience… you won’t feel liberated by Kiwi Feminism
Kind regards John Dutchie
‘having spent 27 years in the sector i am not at all concerned about accusations’
Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 6:00 pm
Dave,
I’m really delighted to see your concerted effort to get more men involved in the teaching of toddlers and younger boys and girls. I must also add my agreement with several who have commented in response to your post.
It makes no sense to me to portray the Peter Ellis affair as one where he was a victim of ‘petty prejudices’.
I’d describe the prejudices against him as huge, ugly and systemic with ramifications that are far reaching,devastating and ongoing for NZ society and culture. It’s been something like 30 years since the incident and the wounds are still raw.
Nothing petty there I can see.
Imagine if you will similarly stitching up an innocent black person with specious ‘evidence’ and getting them banged away for 7 years, then calling the prejudice against him/her ‘petty’.
I have also spent several decades in the education sector of NZ and I am definitely concerned!
I wish you wouldn’t minimize thus.
I clearly recall the one and only male early childhood worker at my son’s creche. He was a wonderful man who the kids enjoyed. The day after Ellis was convicted he resigned. To my knowledge he never re-entered the profession. It was another devastating blow to myself and other conscionable folks.
In this day and age where our national air carrier Air New Zealand still has the policy (which they’ve been challenged over yet resolutely hold onto) of barring unaccompanied children from sitting next to men, but allowing them to sit next to women. In such a social milieu I fear unless you get more realistic about the real and persistent dangers posed by feminists you and your cohorts will in turn be victimized. You go where many fear to tread. I implore you not to dismiss their fear so lightly, especially when you’ll be pushing the envelope by requiring a change in society’s attitudes.
That said I wish you well in your endeavor which is noble.
Comment by Skeptik — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 7:59 pm
My question to them would be, what are they putting in place to make sure we don’t have another or a plethora of Peter Ellis cases? If the answer is nothing, or just a bit more than nothing, then men should still steer clear!
Comment by Scott B — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 9:57 pm
Another would be will you be teaching/making every man aware of the Ellis case?
The prejudices they will face?
How to deal with false accusations etc?
If no, then I suggest the men do what others have been doing since the Ellis case and run!
Comment by Scott B — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 10:10 pm
Just for the record I am not recommending men get involved with this. Russell is.
I agree 200% that this is what children need. I just couldn’t encourage men to do it and have a clear conscience.
Comment by Dave — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 10:28 pm
Thank-you Dave.
My apology for not giving credit where it was due.
Comment by Skeptik — Wed 31st March 2010 @ 11:26 pm
I thought i would take time to respond to the issues raised here on my behalf. Niaive – i am not – i am very concerned about the level of disengagement children have from men and hence my agenda. and as said in my initial response i have been teaching for 27 years – it is very unlikely that i would not be aware of the dynamics in our sector in that period of time …. When i commented about petty prejudices i was referring to the perpetrators of the peter ellis case – i am very aware of the damage that this case had on new zealand males – i was teaching in the workforce at the time and have lived through the consequences of this so again to dismiss my comments as niaive is to do myself and the number of males that remained teaching during those times a huge disservice.
peter ellis was a victim because he was male and homosexual and made an easy target for petty prejudices by those who wanted neither in the sector and wanted to control early childhood as a women only domain. this was a result of both feminiism and patriachial beliefs – ie caring for children is a women’s job and the men should be working doing useful things….
since the peter ellis case the number of men teaching has reduced dramatically because of this fear that his treatment rightly created. we have a choice now to either support this fear by saying that men shouldnt be teaching young children or by saying yes this was a horriblew stitch up and we have got to challenge that and one way we can do this is by getting more men into the sector to show that men belong in teaching and have a valuable contribution to make – and children need men in their lives. For whatever reason i believe the latter is the one way to address this issue and remain focussed on trying to achieve this.
every year we hold a summit where we get together nationally and the peter ellis case is alsways raised – so yes we are very aware of the history and we are dealing with it continually – but unlike others we are not backing away – we are trying to make it better and make no apology for that.
what you probably do not realise in terms of early childhood education there were many improvements made in practice after the ellis case in terms of what both male and female teachers can do with children and every centre has polices in place to ensure that adults are not left alone with children so that they can be wrongly accused of abuse – if teachers follow these policies they are as protected as anyone and therefore the chance of accusation progressing unchallenged has been lessened. i do not believe that this will rid the sector of suspicion nor challenge but it does make it harder for those who wish to hurt others.
i dont have all the answers and i only wish it wasnt like that – however that is the environment we work in and there are a group of very dedicated men who turn up in early childhood centres every day connecting with children and showing communities that men have much to offer in teaching. They need to be congratulated for making a difference and for challenging the exact bias that is so problematical for those who have commented . Our network is there to support these guys and encourage them to perservere when others have run because we believe that our kids deserve it…
Russell Ballantyne
President EC-Menz
Comment by Russell Ballantyne — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 8:42 am
Thank you for putting some FACTS about what is happening to male teachers in early childhood education.
It is refreshing to read rather than the usual humble opinions that we see day in day out on here.
I salute you and your colleagues for taking this responsibility on with so much determination.
I myself have had experience with the sexism surrounding childcare (CYFS, lawyers, feminazi teachers), so I know how important this issue is.
Good luck
Comment by noconfidence — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 9:04 am
Reply to Russell
Russell Thank you so much for posting on Menz,I truly appreciate it….And I pray that the day will come where good,and Honorable Men can return to teaching without ‘Fear’ having the Finger pointed at them…
What happen to Peter Ellis was a major travesty of Justice and a major social disaster for New Zealand..for Manhood and Fatherhood…..
I will stand my ground,and you,Russell will disagree, and that is solemn right to do so,and I will defend your right to disagree as well. ..The PWas brought upon by radical social Engineering Kiwi Feminism agenda as in ‘ All Men are potential Rapist and potential Pedophiles’
Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 10:02 am
@Russell…
You and your fellows have my admiration and respect.
Whilst it is a tragedy that such a gender specific organisation is even necessary we can only work within in the social environment that prevails.
Do you know of any organisations in NZ or Australia which are working in a similar way for male teachers more broadly?
The poor performance of boys through the whole system is something that nags at me constantly. I do believe that the almost complete absence of men is possibly the most significant cause. Unfortunately I don’t have any solutions. Yourself and EC-Menz at least seem to have some notion and some direction.
Well done to you all.
Comment by gwallan — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 10:03 am
Thanks and well done Russell.
Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 1:05 pm
john
the right to disagree is a democratic principle that we all enjoy and long may that remain – in my experience there are many truths and this brings many ideas and approaches and again thank goodness for that
we are who we are formed from our own experiences and it is refreshing that we can share approaches and positions without maiming each other ….in fact i believe we have much in common but through our experiences we are approaching from different streets and that is cool as in the end if we can get men and children together as they should be without fear or harm for either and instead sharing the many skills and experiences we have then our future will be strong for our children …i thank you all for the supportive comments as sometimes it is very lonely in our battle against bias and prejudice and our male teachers have a hard road. the good news is that there is a call from parents for change – and mainly women in that and we are trying very hard to get government and the recruiters to listen so our parents have a choice to have their child educated by both males and females.
again i thank you all for your considerations
Russell
Comment by russell ballantyne — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 4:32 pm
Gwallan
the boy issue is a very complex one and one that needs much more debate but i do agree that the absence of men impacts severely on the ability to identify with male issues and learning styles. My time in education has taught me there are many ways of learning and unfortunately i dont see our education system exciting our boys – boys need to be engaged in the topics they study (as girls do too) but unfortunately i have too often seen their interests or styles negated – especially in terms of the need to be physically active and to challenge their own physical skillbase. i think there is a dominance of learning=passive/quiet activities and hence physicallity is suppressed. my belief is that a large number of boys realise way too soon that the education system is not a place for them and disengage from it – if we want boys to be excited about learning as well as the girls then we need to offer many different styles of teaching and learning environments – but unfortunately as more men withdraw from teaching i believe that the advocates for male activity are leaving as well.
i co-own an early childhood centre here in Dunedin and 3/4 of our children are boys …why because parents know we have three men teaching here including myself and we have space for running, riding and adventure – typical boys stuff ( tho the girls benefit immensely from this too) – and we allow them to be boys – superhero play, sword fights etc and we also encourage risk taking in a real physical sense through jumping, swinging and climbing. We use their interests to teach about numeracy and literacy – we dont plonk them at a table and bore them stupid as i have seen elsewhere – we try to excite their minds through stories and adventure and that is very successful. as said earlier parents with boys in particular are now looking for male friendly environments as they too acknowledge different learning needs and their voices at present arent been heard. One of the biggest challenges we have is convincing govt of the need for more men teaching – they say research shows it is not the gender that is important but the quality of teaching and we dont necessarily disagree – but what we do say is that there are many more good male teachers out there – it is just that they have done nothing to find them and our kids deserve better.
on a separate note menteach.com is an american organisation doing great work to promote teaching for men – across the board and operates as a research clearing house – check them out plus other links of our website
Russell
Comment by russell ballantyne — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 2:52 am
Hi Russel,
Thanks.
A good post with lots of relevant points.
I say that because I’ve been teaching for several years and concur with your findings.
When I’m teaching a new concept for example lets say the word ‘pulse’ many of the boys in the class will instantly get the idea and to confirm and embed it in memory they’ll instantly leap out of their chairs and start convulsing, shaking and maybe even ‘popping’ as in break dancing. What they’re doing comes to the attention of my assistant teacher who’s female and she rolls her eyes. I can tell she’s thinking ‘what a bunch of loony tunes! or similar’ and ‘if I were in charge of this class, the boys would sit down and stop messing around.
What she misses is that the boys ‘messing around’ –
a) Helps the boys retain the concept as they are kinaesthetic learners
b) Helps me to get the point across as other students witness the boys and get a light bulb moment
c) Makes the class fun, whereby the kids are more relaxed and therefore in zeta brainwave mode able to soak up the knowledge.
I let the boys do their thing for a few seconds and maybe even join in because it’s part of my learning style also and we’re all good.
Keep posting here as it’s refreshing and keeps the culture of male education normalized.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 3:12 am
Well Russell?
Comment by Scott B — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 8:19 am
YOU are our society, Your attitude,ignorance,fear,bias, power,support counts.To accept and promote the vital importance of men in education esp men in early childhood , we need men such as yourself to empower men. Every man counts.
Comment by Miff — Thu 29th July 2010 @ 1:28 pm