White ants attack MENZ
Reading comments on MENZ recently one would think that a website that has for years been closely monitored by Politicians and Officials has been attacked by white ants.
My Father used to talk about white-anting as part of the toolkit of ideologies such as Communism and Fascism a tool that was used by the enemy to destroy a structure from within. The level of debate on MENZ has dropped to an all time low as good men are driven away by the rantings of the white-anters.
Don’t get me wrong I have little time for post modernist feminism and its ideology of hate. No difference from my loathing of any other type of fascism. A fascist is a fascist no matter what colour shirt she wears, its an ideology lacking any moral compass that seeks to destroy rather than build,the ashes of civilisation are its end product.
Responding to the white-anter comments is what they seek from you. Their comments are usually puerile and designed to illicit poorly thought out responses that bring the hard earned credibility of MENZ into disrepute.
This is a premier New Zealand Men’s site and it seems that white-ants are seeking to destroy its credibility. What action should we men take to stop this? What is our future view of the Web Presence that political Men’s Rights activists require?
I would like other MEN to comment on this thread as it relates to the future of MEN online.
Please note I have started on a white-ant eradication process so will be culling comments that do not meet the site rules.
Regards Scrap
White-anting is an Australian term for the process of internal erosion of a foundation. It is often used in reference to groups such as political parties or organisations where information from group insiders is ‘leaked’ or used to undermine the goals of the group. The Macquarie Dictionary says the verb “to white-ant” means “to subvert or undermine from within”.
The term is derived from the action of termites (white ants) eating the inside of wooden building foundations, often leaving no outward evidence, until the structure crumbles.
Yep, good comments Scrap. And it is important to cull comments but show restraint. Some white ants are totally destructive and need to be blocked, others contribute occasionally genuine pieces with useful ideas and only some of their pieces need to be removed. The rules here may allow us to protect MENZ as the premiere men’s movement forum, if we enforce them. It’s sad to have to do so, but there you go.
Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:05 pm
Scrap,
Very good point.
I concur with Hans’ response.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:11 pm
Thanks Hans,
Agree its a balancing act.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:48 pm
Get rid of them, if this was my site I would. It is obvious who the white ants are!
Comment by Scott B — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:50 pm
Thanks Skeptik.
Im shortly releasing quite a few pieces on Child Tax (AKA Father Tax) and dont want then hijacked by the white ants.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:51 pm
Thanks Scott,
Robust debate is crucial to our growing MENZ for the benifit of our brothers However like you I am sick of the destruction of thread after thread by the white anters and see the need to eradicate the infestation whitout killing the good guys as paramount.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:55 pm
The problem with leaving them here and say simply ignoring them, is new comers might think we agree with them. Better to nuke em!
Comment by Scott B — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:57 pm
Reply to Scott B
L.O.L …Man,and I thought I was Blunt and extremely forthright …’Tongue in Cheek’ and ‘Stirring the Pot’ here…’Tut’..’Tut’..’Tut’.. Careful Scott B…Mary,could say you are promoting ‘violence against Woman’ with your comment on ‘Better to Nuke’…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:03 pm
lol better to nuke being their posts, not themselves!
I find it better to be blunt. Why not?
Vermentists… er feminists rather, would say I am violent just because I am a man! SO who cares what they think? lol
Comment by Scott B — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:05 pm
John,
How does that contribute to the debate?
Its just stirring and dtracting from the problem. Sirring the pot does nothing to provide a solution.
Claiming that nuking white anters is preferable to ignoring them has no relationship to promoting violence to women.
Besides you assume that I see all the white anters as women!
How about uping the quality of your comments so they add some value to the debate instead of just being a stirrer and wasting peoples time.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:11 pm
Reply to Scott
L.O.L…Yes,I know Scott B,the same crap that the Kiwi Feminist love to spin with there vile Man and Father Hate propaganda …’That all Men are potential rapist and potential pedophiles’…But in 27 month time, they will have one less Horrible Evil Kiwi Man and Father to worry about here in Feminist New Zealand…I am gone,and departed back to Thailand and can live life with out ‘Fear’ because I am a Man and a Father…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:19 pm
Good comment Scrap, I support your approach. It is easy to get drawn in, I have done it myself on occasions in the heat of the moment (regretfully). I think continued good moderation is the key – we may need more people perhaps to assist with this. Ignoring the comments that do get through is a good approach, except where a logical and considered response is required.
One positive thing about the white ant problem is that it is a sure sign this website is striking home. People only strike out when they feel threatened and insecure about their position and that is what this site appears to be achieving amongst those opposed to it.
Take a look at Indymedia NZ Scrap if you havent already. Their moderators hide a lot of comments as this site gets a lot of white ants attacking it. The moderators at Indy would probably be only too happy to advise what they do. Sorry I don’t know anyone of them myself personally, but they are all ‘battle seasoned activists’ used to stamping on white ants.
Kia Kaha !
Comment by Gerry — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:30 pm
Reply to Scrap
Okay then Scrap….Firstly ,one area I have mentioned on Menz and note, quite a few times,and it seems to me, you Good Sir,you haven’t noticed….There must be somehow a way to being a strong political pressure upon our Politicians for a powerful prosecution to be enforced and a firm sentencing (Not slap on the hand with a wet Bus Ticket) on false Sexual allegation charge, brought upon by vindictive and spiteful Ex partner, who as been caught out in Court on basically
committing ‘Perjury’ under oath,or giving a false statement to the police…Not this ‘Oh never mind She or He was under stress,and was suffering depression ….Blah…Blah, the usual feeble excuses…’Bollocks’ …..Simple…No excuses…
Second ..Close down the Ministry of Woman’s affairs……
Is that a start for you Scrap…??????
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:34 pm
John,
So how does that relate to this thread- about white anters?
Regards Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:54 pm
Reply to Scrap….. again
Another one for you Scrap…. Being back Good decent ‘Men’ into the educational systemfrom Pre-school right to our Universities…Stop this so called Feminist political correctness spin,as in all ‘Men’ are potential Monsters and can’t be trusted to left alone with Children…
But that will a hard one to achieve thanks to the ‘Peter Ellis’ affairs,which in my humble opinion, was nothing more then a Kiwi Feminist witch hunt..surly Scrap ,you must have read some my comments on my opinion Peter Ellis..and also my email to Russell raising my deep concerns of becoming Male School teacher here in New Zealand…..your comment on this Scrap…????
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:57 pm
Good to hear this Scrap. My mates and I at IRD have had suggestions for policy change for the past 6 years but Minister Dunne Nothing doesn’t want any changes made.
Nancy
Comment by Ms IRD Officer — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 1:58 pm
John That isn’t the topic of this thread. You should Listen before you respond.
Allan who is a male school teacher you and others drove away from this site because you didn’t listen. He has a long history and is a good decent bloke in my opinion but has decided to leave MENZ and what we now have is largely trash comments often which you and others have created by baiting people and buying into bait laid by white ants
Comment by Kiwi Skier — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 2:03 pm
Reply to Scrap
Whoops my apology to you scrap,sorry now I understand the question you have asked….Firstly I am not as glue up on the Net as other posters are…Okay just my opinion…If someone suspects a person is a ‘White Ant’….email and alert the site owner or the moderator…I agree with you..it is a very fine balancing act….There could be a particular white ant on here….But I think not..
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 2:10 pm
Reply to Keen Skier
…I agree with you,fair call on your statement with the topic of this thread…My mistake….But with Allan and remember I don’t want get off the subject of this Thread…I was not attacking Allan personally as a decent Human being…You might think that…so be it..
Kind regards Keen Skier John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 2:19 pm
Another reply to Keen Skier
Just getting off the subject here,and I hope you don’t mind scrap….Keen Skier you have spoken some very wise words and I can admit when I am in the wrong…Her is a copy of my Email I have sent to Allan from union of Fathers……
Kind regards to you Keen Skier ..John Dutchie
5 th April 2010
Good afternoon Allan, I am emailing to you to give my Apology to you on my harshness and extreme bluntness concerning your opinion on the Menz forum relating to your comment on how ‘Feminism as liberated’ you…I was totally out of order, as in on my wording and on my reply to you….I won’t denied it Allan, what I have seen of this radical Feminism here in New Zealand with myself and other good decent, caring and loving Fathers, who I have had the honor and privilege to have known and to witness there destruction in there mind, body and soul has not been a pleasant experience
…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 3:13 pm
Reply to Scrap
You hit nail on the head there.
Comment by Jessie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 3:29 pm
Reply to Hans.
In my view it is absurd to have woman controlling content on a site meant for men to discuss their problems in confidence. Will my comment be deleted for voicing my opinion on this issue. Hope not.
Regards Jessie
Comment by Jessie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 3:40 pm
I think one problem is that we get episodes like this, they pass, and then in a few months another agitator will come along and off we go again. It’s as if we can’t learn from our history. But is that so surprising? Can any of us point to any literature of what went on on men’s forums in the past, what lessons were learned and what techniques were developed to thwart it in the future?
It would be useful to have an online handbook of the kinds of problems men’s forums have experienced, a link that was easily referenced from this site. It wouldn’t take long before we would have documented most of the kinds of problems that commonly occur, pointing to examples of it in action, analysis of motivations behind it, and list successful strategies for dealing with it.
We could start with a simple case study of one of the most recent incidents – say the manner in which Blah introduced herself, and see what we come up with – that is, if there’s even agreement that she represents a white ant.
Perhaps the first question is ‘who should be commenting on this board?’ or ‘what should be being discussed here?’.
Comment by rc — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 4:06 pm
No Jessie, your comment won’t get deleted. I deleted Mary Poppin’s comments from a post I wrote because I thought the post was more important than her comments. Every writer can delete comments from their own posts and it’s always been this way.
I happen to be in agreement with you that men need to work this out for themselves but I don’t regret being a part of this site or writing the posts I did because I care as a mother of boys, and was able to connect with journalists and others who I consider worthwhile to tell them what I thought.
If by chance someone comments on a past post I have written, and I am able to comment, I may decide to and apologise upfront. Otherwise, I’m happy to move on. 😉
Comment by julie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 4:50 pm
Reply to Jessie
Jessie, I beg to differ and and my reasons are such I want Woman/Mothers to post and have there say…personally,and just my humble opinion ….I think it vital that Woman and Mothers should participate on this Menz forum site and to listen and hear what ‘We’ as in Men and Fathers feel how ‘Alienated’ we have become in New Zealand Society…and it equally important they can have there opinion and say too
However, there is a big difference to having a Woman controlling this called Menz site…Sorry, but I personally think,Kiwi Woman are controlling to much of our society at this present moment
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 4:59 pm
Thanks Gerry,
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 8:59 pm
John,
Thanks for listening. Now a challenge to you – keep your future posts relavent to the thread.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 9:02 pm
No, you are on threadand not attacking anyone why would I delete the comment.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 9:05 pm
Thanks RC.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 9:06 pm
I think you make a good point here John, which is why I asked for men to dicuss this thread.
Masculinist Evolution New Zealand (MENZ)
– promoting a clearer understanding of men’s experience
Thats the banner at the top of this page so I would suggest that is our guide for the purpose of MENZ. There are many women who support this but some writers forget what Menz is about.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 9:13 pm
@Jessie and julie…
julie wrote in another thread…
I would. I think you misunderstand me.
I mentioned a discussion you and I had about anger a couple of years ago. I think it was at SYG. You were being tested and it was your capacity for empathy that was being tested. The difference between yourself and, say, Mary Poppins is that when you encounter expressions of frustration, anger or even hatred you will give thought to where it comes from. It doesn’t exist in a vacuum after all.
Most feminists have little empathy for men at all. Radical feminists don’t believe one should even bother. Women more broadly will fit in at all points of the compass. Some can. Some can’t. Just like men. But feminists have monopolised all discussion relating to gender. Men have been denied a voice.
It is almost certain in my mind that any effective movement for men MUST be kick-started by women. And those women will need to be strong enough to tell feminists to pull their bloody heads in. Frankly it’s something that needed to happen about two decades ago. Better late than never I guess. And nobody said it was going to be easy. Feminists are bullies of high order.
Feminists continue to “maintain the rage”. They seem blissfully unaware that their goal should be to make themselves redundant. Through my life there have been many women I have learned huge respect for – Julie is one of those. Almost to a woman they were not feminists and owed no credit to feminism. They achieved and succeded on their own terms. They succeded as human beings, not as women. They are the strong, independent women promised us by the womens’ movement of the sixties and seventies. Capable of doing it “on their own”. A dream lost in later feminism’s cries of eternal victimhood and demands for compensatory treatment.
The supreme irony may be that true gender equality may only be possible when enough women find the strength and courage to kill off feminism once and for all.
Comment by gwallan — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 1:26 am
Just a thought…
There Is No Reciprocity. Men Love Women, Women Love Children, Children Love Hamsters
– Alice Thomas Ellis
The reality is that men do not like fighting against women. Their true instinct is one of protectiveness.
If there was a “womens’ wing” of a mens movement it’s most effective role could be to keep the feminists and other nay-sayers at bay. This might allow men, rather than constantly fighting rearguard actions, to actually get on with focussing on organising to do the things they need to do.
Comment by gwallan — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 2:45 am
Jessie, thanks for expressing your opinion. In my experience very few comments have ever been deleted from MENZ. When a contributor continually breaks the rules his/her comments might be deleted and he/she might be blocked from future posting (which I think can only be done by John Potter who originated, owns and pays for this forum). I can think of only a handful to whom that has happened. Recently we have been confronted with the need to consider culling the comments of a few who often distract and overwhelm discussions with irrelevancy and baiting for conflict. The fact that participants here are discussing this matter and agonizing over the decision to censor shows how open, ethical and caring they try to be.
But one important point: nothing is discussed on MENZ “in confidence”. This site is open for everyone to read. Postings here have frequently been brought up in Family Court hearings, damaging the case of the MENZ participant. I have been challenged by lawyers in Court as expert witness on the basis of my writings here; luckily in each case the judge recognized that people, including judges, will have political opinions that might disagree with current law but they are still required to apply the law as it exists at any time. I have also had to defend my career against a complaint to the Psychologists Board in which reams of my writings on MENZ were included. (The Board did not uphold the complaint and the committee that assessed the complaint found nothing unethical about my writings.) I continue to post under my own name because I have faith generally that my views and arguments are sound and defensible despite going against popular social trends. Here at MENZ, we are helping to change those trends. But please, don’t make the mistake of believing that anything said here is in confidence.
Comment by Hans Laven — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 9:22 am
Reply to Hans
Extremely wise words you have spoken Hans…And you are very correct…As a Expert Witness my self in the Courts I can relate to your post…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 9:28 am
What was your professional role as expert witness, John?
Comment by Hans Laven — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 9:32 am
Yes John, while you are clearly supportive of the MENZ aims, for me you comment too frequently in ways that add little to the topic in hand. This clogs up the threads. Some of your posts have been excellent and provided valuable ideas or information, and your supportive encouragement to others can also be valuable, but there are so many knee-jerk, chit-chat comments from you that I tend not to read them. I think your contribution would be more valuable, and I would read all of your comments, if you held back, posted fewer comments and only commented when you have something additional or significant to contribute. No offence intended, and of course it’s up to you how you participate.
Comment by Hans Laven — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 9:48 am
Reply to Hans
Hans I have no problem telling you,but in a private email if you don’t mind….Like you ,I have to be very careful on what I say on here …For I am not definitely in the good books with the N.Z Police and with the Crown prosecutors …I am sure you can appreciate why I am very cautious..
Kind regards …John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 9:55 am
Reply to Hans
Fair call Hans,and you, and others are very correct Good Sir…..And I can admit as well,Yes I know I have been in some cases very ‘provocative’…Yep I am learning to take a ‘deep breath’ first before posting…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 10:08 am
Reply to gwallen…
Good post gwallen…My wonderful strong Dutch Grand mothers whom I was very close too while growing up here in New Zealand, were very similar in stature as you have described below …
One Grand Mother was a very successful in Business,the other was a very successful Doctor…They were very strong Woman but still had that wonderful Femininity in them,and as both of them said to me,they had great support and respect from my Dutch Grand Fathers,and they in turn returned that respect back to my Dutch Grand Fathers.
Unfortunately I never got to know of my Dutch Grand Fathers,for both passed away in the late Fifties,early sixties from there injuries suffered from the ww2 when I was still in the Nappie stage…
Note, in the Book of ‘The City Possessed’…Lynley Hood the author talks about in her book, that the Woman’s Liberation movement in New Zealand was ‘hi jacked’ Men haters….
Very similar situation, to what ‘Erin Pizzy’ talks about the Woman’s refuge centers in her interview in America you can see it on ‘you tube’.. part one and part two…just my humble opinion, very worth while to do so..Erin Pizzy is an amazing,brave and a very strong Lady….
Kind regards John Dutchie
They achieved and succeeded on their own terms. They succeeded as human beings, not as women. They are the strong, independent women promised us by the womens’ movement of the sixties and seventies.
Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 10:34 am
I think I just saw a white ant!
Comment by Scott B — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 11:50 am
Reply to Scott B
…Now I am inclined to agree with you..L.O.L
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 12:07 pm
I think you are right and I just eradicated it from the thread.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 2:44 pm
My hero!
Comment by Scott B — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 4:35 pm
Stopping people from being able to attack others from behind a cloak of anonymity would be a good start.
Comment by Darryl Ward — Tue 6th April 2010 @ 1:18 pm
Darryl,
Thanks for the feedback.
Some people have good reson for masking their identity.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 6th April 2010 @ 1:24 pm