64 Comments »

1. 

   Thanks blamemenforall,

   I’ve just sent Ms Hunter an e-mail :

   Ms Hunter,
   With plenty of research to show that there’s just as much violence perpetrated by woman and against men it’s a shame your promotional material presents the same tired old feminist man perpetrator / woman victim stereotype.

   If you’d like I can share with you plenty of examples of research (both from within NZ and international longitudinal studies) I’ve discovered during my many years of working as a therapist working with both abusers and victims, one on one and in groups in New Zealand.

   On a more personal level, as a man I have to say your gross stereotyping of men only perpetrators hurts me and other men as it perpetuates prejudices against men held in the wider community.

   Let’s see how she handles getting feedback that she’s peddling a form of abuse herself by so terribly and foolishly stereotyping men.

   Comment by Skeptik — Thu 7th April 2011 @ 10:51 pm

2. 

   Your e-mail likely will be interpreted by her as evidence of her success destroying the lives of children and fathers (men). It will enable her pathology.

   Comment by Darryl X — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 8:55 am

3. 

   This is a tough one.

   You have 2 interest groups. One for women and one for men – that’s today thanx to the likes of “a vioce for men” etc (who are balancing by showing men’s rights”

   Yet you’ve still got a group of men who pull women;s rights down by saying, “What about men” and you’ve still got a group of women saying, “What about women”.

   And then you’ve got a number of groups saying, :Hey, what they fuck, we work with both men and women”.

   Yep, it’s tough alright. Thank God we still have some morals.

   Comment by julie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 12:17 pm

4. 

   Well, I guess… good on this woman for she’s speaking up for women. Yet, “Watch out world” for you’ve also got a group of men speaking up for men.

   At least 7 years ago, in New Zealand, woman have welcome men teaching what’s going on for them. I don’t think they should ignore what’s going on for women but add what’s going on for men.

   Comment by julie — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 12:21 pm

5. 

   Hi Darryl,
   Here’s an unaltered direct copy and paste of her e-mail response to me received today followed by the e-mail reply I just sent her a few moments ago.

   Good morning,

   I was pleased to have received your email with your comments rather than just having you unsubscribe without expressing your feelings about my marketing material.

   I appreciate your candour.

   I agree with you that many men do suffer from domestic violence and I have spoken to some who have felt safe enough to share their stories with me. I get the sense that their shame is far harsher as it is more difficult for them to share this with their friends or mates.

   In my workshop I do include the fact that men do suffer from dv and that I am not an expert in that field although many of the after affects can be the same as for women.

   Our host and guest speaker, Jan Sky, works with perpetrators in prison and in her private practice and brings, I think, a balance to the workshop when she delivers her ESI program and how she has great success in using this tool with men in prison.

   I would be happy to have you send me the research you have on men’s experience with dv.

   Let me assure you I am not a feminist but one woman who tells her personal story from my perspective while quoting the latest up-to-date research available from the United Nation Women’s Reporting Network and other professionals. Some of my best friends are men. My best friend was my son who died recently, who as a baby suffered brain damage contributed to by the fact that he was shaken as a baby by his father and subjected to terror and victimization until he was 3 years old.

   Thank you for contacting me and I look forward to any material you can share with me.

   Kindest regards

   Ricky

   Hello Ricky,

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOu_BszChIE&feature=related

   I’m afraid you don’t allay my concerns about the nature of your workshop’s promotional material.
   Rather I see you completely miss the point I am trying to get you to understand.
   For it’s all well and good to say you recognize many men suffer from domestic violence.
   The fact is though your promotional material doesn’t acknowledge that,
   but gives the impression of man perpetrator – woman victim.
   As such you stonewall and ignore the issue I present to you of bolstering the misguided stereotypical image of men bad – women good pushed by feminists for a long time now.
   I’m afraid you therefore unwittingly demonize men, myself included.
   Unfortunately as that unbalanced stereotyping gets portrayed over and over many people pick up on that stereotype and it becomes their ‘reality’.
   In turn they treat men unfairly, including myself with undue suspicion and harshness and many of us men then get terribly stereotyped and hurt.
   All too often it plays out in the wider culture like this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y09z8lwOEYA whereby violence against men is terribly trivialized and even glamorized.

   I urge you therefore please rethink your promotional material to include the FACT of female violence.
   If you offer that kind of balance I will feel acknowledged, encouraged and respected rather than as at present with you unacknowledged, discouraged and marginalized.
   You will also widen the appeal of your workshops tremendously too.

   Here’s a link to some recent research from a NZ source.

   Here are other research links worth reading

   http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/downloads/304/kelly.pdf

   http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/scottish-men-experience-as-much-abuse-as-women/

   http://current.com/health/90269278_domestic-violence-women-abusers-on-the-rise.htm

   http://mensnewsdaily.com/2011/02/25/every-man-should-boycott-pepsi/

   There are many, many more articles, books, research papers, videos and blogs pointing out that domestic violence is a gender inclusive activity.
   But this smattering of it will get you started.

   Comment by Skeptik — Fri 8th April 2011 @ 4:56 pm

6. 

   We have another battered men’s refuge in Sth Auckland. Not an actual refuge for battered men, but a trust run by a lovely Maori couple with accommodation that will take battered men.

   There’s a possibility of a wonderful coordinator whose first 5 clients (referred on by police) when she worked for victim support were battered men. She’s moved on since then but may know who’s who out there.

   Also, a lawyer for CYF cases with a fantastic reputation. One battered father gave her 300 out of 1 – 10. Rochelle Johnson is her name. (google her if needed)

   Anyways, it’s a new week. Thanx for feedback saying I’m too emotional about all this. I have CYF coming Friday to start the “Historical claims” from what CYF have done to my family and hopefully it will bring closure.

   Comment by julie — Mon 11th April 2011 @ 9:50 am

7. 

   Also, a lawyer for CYF cases with a fantastic reputation. One battered father gave her 300 out of 1 – 10. Rochelle Johnson is her name

   from Swayne McDonald Lawyers?

   I have CYF coming Friday to start the “Historical claims” from what CYF have done to my family and hopefully it will bring closure.

   best of luck.

   Comment by Jono — Mon 11th April 2011 @ 2:17 pm

8. 

   Julie says:

   We have another battered men’s refuge in Sth Auckland.

   One day we will hopefully have refuges for battered fathers AND their children. Whenever a father is the victim of domestic violence you can be assured the children are also affected.

   If only they thought of taking the higher moral ground and renamed all Women’s Refuges to Children’s Refuges, where a parent of either gender could take their children for respite from a violent partner.
   Currently, whenever there is a battered father, his children most likely remain victims of that violence, even if he is offered refuge somewhere.

   Comment by Wayne — Mon 11th April 2011 @ 3:01 pm

9. 

   One day we will hopefully have refuges for battered fathers AND their children.

   thats an excellent dream we all wish to come true.

   Whenever a father is the victim of domestic violence you can be assured the children are also affected.

   speaking for myself, any form of DV from either side is affecting the kids.

   Comment by Jono — Mon 11th April 2011 @ 3:39 pm

10. 

    from Swayne McDonald Lawyers

    Yes! see link

    best of luck.

    Thanks.

    Comment by julie — Mon 11th April 2011 @ 7:56 pm

11. 

    One day we will hopefully have refuges for battered fathers AND their children.

    I guess I was so wrapped in victim/perpetrator that I forgot to inquire about the children. Thanks.

    If only they thought of taking the higher moral ground and renamed all Women’s Refuges to Children’s Refuges, where a parent of either gender could take their children for respite from a violent partner.

    My son’s school (Unitec) has unisex toilets but it’s only in certain parts. Makes me think of things to come like unisex refuges.

    Comment by julie — Mon 11th April 2011 @ 8:14 pm

12. 

    That’s a very important distinction. Battered women shelters (a great misnomer as it is well documented that most women at these shelters are more abusive than the men they are leaving) are used by women for snatching children and getting custody and child support. If men go to shelters without the children, the women are still going to get custody and child support because the children will still be with them. The shelters are more for the children and not the parents.

    Comment by Darryl X — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 1:44 am

13. 

    The shelters are more for the children and not the parents.

    There is no safety for the child once DV is involved. Automatically the woman is innocent and the male is the guilty party. This can go on for several months while there is no protection for the child (unless you prove otherwise – GOOD-LUCK). The child can show signs of being abused and automatically the thought is its the father doing it. I am of course talking about very young, unable to defend themselves babies/kids who don’t/unable to have a say. Once the father proves it wasn’t him, the mother isn’t thought to be the one doing it.

    Comment by Jono — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 5:44 am

14. 

    One day we will hopefully have refuges for battered fathers AND their children.

    I guess I was so wrapped in victim/perpetrator that I forgot to inquire about the children. Thanks.

    Until you can prove she is the violent one, going to a refuge, as any male knows, isnt an option. This will lead you more into “deep water” and gives way for the mother to run in and uplift with feminism backing.

    Comment by Jono — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 6:08 am

15. 

    Until you can prove she is the violent one, going to a refuge, as any male knows, isnt an option.

    With due respect, how do you know this?

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 7:38 am

16. 

    Here is something I am studying at the moment. It’s business studies so it’s not going to have and man/woman spin to it.

    Rail on in utter ignorance
    of what each other mean,
    And prate about an elephant,
    Not one of [us] have seen!

    Academics have preferred photo safaris – keeping a safe distance from the animals they pretend to observe.

    I love this because when you actually get off the internet and mix with the animals [human beings] you discuss, you find it’s nothing like the brochure. (website articles)

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 7:47 am

17. 

    I think Julie that this woman is not interested in other women, but working for her own interests. Her gains here would be money and prestige. If there was money and prestige in providing services for men, there would be a similar queue to provide services for abused men and their families.
    Women who have used the ‘Refuge” services report having to assume the required victim status to be accepted.
    Please excuse my cynicism.

    Comment by John Brett — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 9:03 am

18. 

    Agreed, Jono.

    Comment by Darryl X — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 10:11 am

19. 

    Hi John, I do agree there’s allot of people involved who are looking out for their own …. hmm, Jim Bagnall calls it power… and yes it’s money and prestige. For others it’s “being good for God” and others, “Look how helpful I am”.

    I am not the only person here who got offline and checked things out. Do you remember one time when Paul Catton contacted a women researcher and she said she didn’t say what the newspaper said, that the media spinned it?

    How are we to know these women actually hate men? To be honest, they don’t say anywhere near the same sexist remarks you read on men’s websites and the men say they’re not sexist. (I think they don’t actually realise they are in many cases)

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 10:31 am

20. 

    The thing is, domestic violence was ignored and older women (funny how I read these women would say they had it good when they actually say women are better off these days and wished things were different in their day) were told by police to go home and be good wives. It doesn’t work that way, no matter how many leading men say it does – you can’t stop an ill man from abusing you.

    In the same way, leading women can’t tell men to be good husbands and the abuse will stop. It doesn’t work that way.

    Women need to say how it is for them, they need to help other women get through this. Feminists said we are doomed for life and yes , for sure there are long term effects but we need to find a way to stop our children passing on this dysfunction.

    Likewise men need to say how it is for them. Too many men’s advocates say men are different, that we are not to treat them the same in the near future. Either accept this or fight it.

    Running down women isn’t going to solve the problem.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 10:42 am

21. 

    (funny how I read these women would say they had it good when they actually say women are better off these days and wished things were different in their day)

    welcome to birth of feminism. In those days, the woman was expected to stay home and look after the kids. the man was expected to go out and work (and for the most part had more than 1 job not to mention time for studying on top). He was also expected to look out and to protect his family.

    Now-a-days you cant really afford not for both parents to be working hence the birth of child support/family support etc.

    Running down women isn’t going to solve the problem.

    Running down either side isn’t going to solve the problem. What we need is to work together not against each other. Only then can we find the path.

    What we set today, forges the future.

    Comment by Jono — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 11:18 am

22. 

    With due respect, how do you know this?

    Julie, I have the utmost respect for you and your trust.

    Do you disagree? the fact the man has no where to go when trying to seek help not say anything?

    feminism has been playing on this for years waiting for the moment to strike. Instill in our minds that the female isn’t capable of violence. If theirs violence, its the male’s doing.

    Your walking down the street and see a female attacking the male. what do you think? everything naturally (thanks to feminism) thinks the male desires it. Does that make it right? Violence isn’t limited to just fists!

    Comment by Jono — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 11:39 am

23. 

    What about you Jono? Instead of writing about women, have you ever wondered how things are for you in a relationship?

    Was your partner pretty? Did you need for her to behave a certain way to protect her? What were you protecting her from? How did you explain these other men to her?

    Do you think men tell women how great men are or do you think they might tell women men are not good?

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 11:48 am

24. 

    Jono, I have the utmost respect for you too. You are an awesome father from my time of knowing you.

    I just worry that you’ll sacrifice your own family for something that’s out of your control. We have a saying in single parents, “When you’re down, who are you going to help?” Often when you are having a hard time, helping someone else helps you be strong and you learn allot when you deal with someone else’s problem because you care from the outside about them while you are wrapped up from the inside with your own story. You get to look at yourself by looking at someone else.

    Sure men are hurting, but please make sure your child has a father before you help other fathers. When I know you have your child, I will welcome you to help other fathers. Feminism is not the problem – it’s far more complicated than that.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 12:00 pm

25. 

    Julie says: The thing is, domestic violence was ignored ….

    Domestic violence still is ignored if the victim is male.

    Comment by Wayne — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 12:14 pm

26. 

    Thanks Julie, this answers a question thats on my mind of late. Believe me the cogs haven’t stopped turning.

    Comment by Jono — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 12:32 pm

27. 

    She isn’t speaking up for women, because she’s actually denying the experience of huge swathes of women who are perpetrators of abuse.

    Plus she isn’t only trying to ‘speak up’ for women either.
    She is trying to speak for BOTH men and women.
    For she’s promoting the idea that men are perpetrators and women are victims. That’s speaking for BOTH sexes.
    Such gross stereotyping denies the reality that abuse is perpetrated by both sexes and probably in roughly equal amounts too.

    She’s peddling a totally false misguided promotion.

    I wrote to her politely challenging her about this.
    Her response to date – ignore the challenge and continue with the deception.
    That’s disappointing and disturbing.
    For in this day and age when female violence is often paraded in the media spotlight it’s simply unbelievable that she could not realize it’s existence.
    We therefore witness the DELIBERATE portrayal of only men as abusers.
    That’s MISANDRY.
    I urge readers to avoid the workshop and to encourage their peers and loved ones to do likewise.

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 1:00 pm

28. 

    Domestic violence still is ignored if the victim is male.

    Yes absolutely. It is a tragedy to say the least. I cannot believe we haven’t already made a difference with this especially as everything started with child abuse.

    CYF leaders told us CYF set up women’s refuges and it’s only fair they fund men’s refuges – these are men who were started from the bottom in CYF and were told if they couldn’t hack the lesbian leaders to find another job.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 1:40 pm

29. 

    What’s her email address? I will ask also.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 1:46 pm

30. 

    julie asks: What’s her email address? I will ask also.

    Her email address is listed in the first post of this thread:
    [email protected]

    I’m surprised women aren’t being advised to NEVER instigate violence towards a man considering that is the biggest predictor of a woman being harmed by domestic violence.

    Comment by Wayne — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 1:50 pm

31. 

    Actually, I don’t want to know. I take back my last comment. If the woman won’t answer to you, then she won’t answer to me. Like to like works….

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 1:55 pm

32. 

    Wayne, I am not going to go after one woman because we are far ahead of this offline. Online can do this and maybe ‘a voice for men’ will pick this woman as a target. I changed the woman I needed 5 years ago and that’s why Helen Clarke said 14 women, 8 men suffer a year from domestic violence.

    What we in NZ need to do is ‘our best’ with limited resources including fighting amongst ourselves.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 2:25 pm

33. 

    OK, I sent her an email. Can I ask how many others here sent an email?

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 2:42 pm

34. 

    Julie,

    you say something which is unintelligible:

    I changed the woman I needed 5 years ago and that’s why Helen Clarke said 14 women, 8 men suffer a year from domestic violence.

    Are you claiming with this statement of yours that you single-handedly changed Helen Clarke or are you saying you changed yourself 5 years ago?
    If it’s the former it’s unbelievable.
    If it’s the latter I fail to see how you changing yourself would make Helen Clarke do anything.

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 2:44 pm

35. 

    Are you claiming with this statement of yours that you single-handedly changed Helen Clarke?

    Yes, of course I am. But don’t forget … see, you just want me to say you gave me the information to pass on.

    or are you saying you changed yourself 5 years ago

    No!

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:07 pm

36. 

    Julie,

    You claim you single handedly changed Helen Clarke 5 years ago.
    Yeah right.

    You claim I want you to say I gave you some information to do so.
    yeah right again.

    Weirdness.

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:13 pm

37. 

    Skeptic, we are also going to get what we want with CYF. Peter Hughes has already stepped down because he threatened if we get our way he will quit. He’s been told we are getting our way.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:15 pm

38. 

    Skeptic, what is your problem? You say you mixed with feminists? But they were different feminists than what I mixed with.

    It’s no big deal. I am sure you had your hand in lots of things.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:34 pm

39. 

    My problem is you are misrepresenting me again.
    It’s really bizarre as well as condescending and a complete waste of time and webspace.
    I’ve no idea why you do this sort of thing.
    but it’s clear from reading folks comments about such on recent threads that you loose credibility every time you do so.
    This time dreaming up some fantasy about changing Helen Clarke single handedly and that I somehow want you to state I gave you the information to do so.
    Truly mind-boggling, grandiose stuff.

    For the record I wouldn’t believe anyone who claimed to have single-handedly changed Helen Clarke and certainly wouldn’t claim I had given them the information to do so.

    Such ideas are so alien to me I have to wonder are you back on drugs again?

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:44 pm

40. 

    My credibility? Heck are you saying you’ve been spinning crap here all these years?

    I am for real, like it or not. And yes, I was behind what Helen Clarke said and so were you.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:54 pm

41. 

    Instead of all ego crap, why don’t you look back in the achieves or ask me how it was done?

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 3:56 pm

42. 

    Julie said “…. and that’s why Helen Clarke said 14 women, 8 men suffer a year from domestic violence.”

    I know I’m blonde so please forgive me Julie. I don’t understand what that quote of Helen Clarke means. Would you please explain it for my benefit?
    I’m confused because I imagine there would be far more men and women who suffer each year from DV. I’ve clearly missed something :p

    Comment by Wayne — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 4:04 pm

43. 

    Wayne, the stats were taken from police – that’s all I know.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 4:44 pm

44. 

    I don’t need to look back through archives or ask anything.
    My memory is sufficiently clear.
    I have had no contact with Helen Clarke, and despite having pointed to certain research have never put forward specific statistics regarding rates of domestic violence committed by men and women in NZ.
    Heck, I doubt even my general ideas about domestic violence would ever have registered with Helen Clarke.
    So whatever claims you make about influencing the woman please leave me out.

    Besides which even if your claims made sense you’d still be contradicting yourself.
    On the one hand saying you single handedly changed Helen Clarke’s mind and on the other hand saying I helped you to do so………it just gets weirder.

    This appears to be another of those instances Hans and I have pointed out of you cluttering a thread with nonsense.

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 5:16 pm

45. 

    Skeptic, go back to Leonie. Now harm intended, just do what you do. You are not in NZ so you don’t know what goes on outside of menz.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 7:57 pm

46. 

    Here’s Ricky’s reply.

    Hi Julie

    Thank you for your email and your query.

    My workshop comes out of a need to tell my personal story which is based on my book Point Last Seen. I am not anti-male but just one woman telling the story of what happened to her. I specialise in women’s workshops because that’s what I have researched and I get a lot of my material from the United Nations Women’s Network. I would love to be able to present the male side of DV but I do not have the time to cover all the different aspects of violence and it would be better coming from someone who is far more experienced than me. My associates work with both men and women perpetrators in their practices.

    I understand from the practitioners that come to my workshops that the affects of violence are probably the same for men as for women although maybe the shame is far harsher for men as they may find it harder to talk with their mates as women do.

    I do not wish to be labelled anti-men I am not. Some of my dearest friends are men. But for me to do my work I need to concentrate on the research that deals with the women’s perspective because that’s what I know. Usually I find that men have the same health outcomes as women who are affected by violence and the plan that we workshop can be used for male and female perpetrators.

    All I can say to you is I tell my story and fly my flag for myself and my son who died as a result of DV. I am sure there are other people more knowledgeable than me who have more experience with female perpetrators who can run workshops from that perspective.

    Violence against anyone male or female is wrong and anyone who speaks out against violence gets my vote.

    Julie I hope this answers your questions and clear things up for you a little more.

    Kind regards

    Ricky

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 8:02 pm

47. 

    I don’t know about you men, but I feel for Ricky.

    Comment by julie — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 8:12 pm

48. 

    Julie,
    A person doesn’t have to be in NZ all the time to know a lot about what goes on there.
    It’s a very connected world these days.
    So no point trying to marginalize me or other posters from overseas that way.
    Besides it’s clearly ridiculous for any woman to be coming to MENZ (a site for promoting clearer understanding of men’s experience) and try telling men what to do?
    I think you just come across as an interfering and daft woman for even trying.
    What makes you think that any man worth his salt is going to follow your pathetic edict to
    ‘go back to Leonie’?

    I see from Ricky’s reply that she’s playing a rather pathetic crooked game too.
    For all her supposed sensitivity towards males she still uses promotional material which grossly stereotypes the sexes in the tired old feminist ‘man bad~woman good’ way.
    She could at least acknowledge female violence whilst stating she doesn’t have the expertise to deal with it, but instead she refuses to even acknowledge that as an issue and such comes across as just another screwed up feminist male basher.
    Ironic for someone supposedly intent on curbing abuse!

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 8:26 pm

49. 

    I think you should also know that the United Nations – especially women’s branch, the organization Ricky gets her research from has an unenviable track record of institutionalizing misandry which has been admirably exposed.

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 8:54 pm

50. 

    This woman makes much more sense than Ricky.
    When I listen to this women I feel safe and deeply understood.
    Not the case with Ricky.

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 9:01 pm

51. 

    Skeptik – More importantly, I think, is that these feminists fail to acknowledge their own responsibility for an environment that promotes abusive behavior – by both men and women. I’m not excusing the abusive behavior of people, but the malignant narcissism and insanity and chaos that feminists have institutionalized is directly responsible, in most instances, for abuse. That’s an important part of people who suffer psychopathology – they create the circumstances that precipitate in others the behavior they fear the most. Men live in an oppressive society – oppression so systemic and institutionalized that we’ve become habituated to it. But that oppression is measurable in important and obvious ways. The failure of feminists to take responsibility for their behavior that promotes abuse is pathological. Believing that more shelters will protect women from abusive men when the excessive number of shelters that exist already have not achieved that goal (and actually promote it), and have only protected men in documentable ways, is delusion. There are many other examples. One woman’s experience without context and without acknowledging her own role in promoting her own abuse by a man, is a lie by omission. And those lies have defined the male experience today. An important role of MENZ is to expose those lies.

    Comment by Darryl X — Tue 12th April 2011 @ 10:44 pm

52. 

    @Skeptik…

    Barbara Kay can go fuck herself…

    Barbara Kay on circumcision: A painless, live-saving surgery

    Comment by gwallan — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 1:01 am

53. 

    @gwallan,

    I see what you mean.
    You’ve given me a new and somewhat harrowing perspective on Barbara Kay.
    Thank you.
    Spooky that she can appear in a video as so strongly critiquing feminism and support men’s rights yet at the same time be an advocate of male genital mutilation!

    Schitzo!

    Comment by Skeptik — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 1:26 am

54. 

    As you can see I support the promotion of people “fucking” themselves when it suits me. And I had the hots for this woman….until she didn’t conform to my way of thinking. I’m such a hypocrite.

    Comment by Chloenmoo pretending to be Skeptik — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 7:18 am

55. 

    And I had the hots for this woman”¦.until she didn’t conform to my way of thinking.

    🙂 I find this comforting.

    I don’t think she is anti your way of thinking, but instead asking for some scientific evidence to show her, her belief that she was raised with is wrong.

    Comment by julie — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 8:53 am

56. 

    “But for me to do my work I need to concentrate on the research that deals with the women’s perspective because that’s what I know.”

    “I am sure there are other people more knowledgeable than me who have more experience with female perpetrators who can run workshops from that perspective.”

    Sure sounds to me that Ricky’s acknowledging female violence while stating she doesn’t have the expertise to deal with it. She gave a reasoned, level-headed, intelligent and thoughtful answer.

    Comment by Glenn — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 9:56 am

57. 

    Glenn – I disagree. She’s a silly woman who instigated any alleged dv towards her. This Ricky may state she is not anti-male but she sure is – all women are. This is a mens experience site, and I for one hate all women, because I’m a misogynist, so all women can go fuck themselves. Because they sure aren’t fucking me – can’t seem to find any that are mannish enough and don’t mind being told they are the cause of everything that is wrong with this world. I wonder why?.

    Comment by Chloenmoo pretending to be Skeptik — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 12:51 pm

58. 

    John Potter,
    please look into this and let me know how to fix this.

    Someone is abusing this site and messing with readers by falsely posting using my name.
    The previous 2 posts under my name were NOT posted by me.

    Comment by Skeptik (The real one) — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 3:21 pm

59. 

    Addendum from The Real Skeptik –

    Just goes to show that this lowlife must feel really threatened by my ideas to stoop so low. Apparently this miscreant doesn’t have the skills and knowledge to engage in rational debate.

    Comment by Skeptik — Wed 13th April 2011 @ 3:48 pm

60. 

    This forum really catch my interest. Thank you for lighten up my day.

    Comment by One ring Atlanta — Fri 15th April 2011 @ 4:01 pm

61. 

    Women are always the victims, even when they are the perpetrator, they are still the victims!

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th April 2011 @ 10:08 am

62. 

    somewhat depends how good a story she can produce as no one follows up on any fact if she is seen as “convincing”. the powers at bee will back up all the way by “adding fuel to the fire.”

    Comment by Jono — Wed 20th April 2011 @ 10:22 am

63. 

    Rubbish. All the woman has to do is actually say that she is being abused and she is believed. No evidence or believability needed.

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th April 2011 @ 10:25 am

64. 

    That’s true in my case too. 30 months later and no resolution.Lets get political on these issues.

    Comment by Bob — Wed 20th April 2011 @ 10:45 am

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