WRIGGLE ROOM ??
Wriggling out of False Allegations???,, sounds wrong does’nt it??
Has any one got a GOOD ending story around this subject,,,’cause I could sure use one right now.
MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.
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It’s a terrible thing to have to deal with.
My feeling is that it is done in the hope you’ll walk away.
If you fight it you have to dig in for the long haul, and that in some cases is entertaining the sick mind.
It can be a hard call.
Comment by Downunder — Tue 14th August 2018 @ 5:36 pm
Indeed,,,so ugly.
Comment by mama — Tue 14th August 2018 @ 8:34 pm
such a tabu subject this is, and no one has a good ending to this kind of story?
if lucky enough to walk away,,, do so,,,,,,this is the resounding silent message.
walk away under a cloud of some suspicion,,unproven of guilt, yet innocent, not a more lonely path.
Comment by mama — Sat 18th August 2018 @ 7:59 pm
That’s not entirety true.
The children’s interviews didn’t support the allegations and she got drop kicked out the police station.
I was a lucky one.
Allegations made directly to the court; that is a different story. That can take years.
Comment by Downunder — Sun 19th August 2018 @ 8:51 am
Thanks for that Downunder, yes lucky for you.
How can allegations be made directly to the court though?
Comment by mama — Tue 21st August 2018 @ 2:34 pm
It is not something I’ve been involved with recently so perhaps someone is actively involved can answer that – I assume it still happens. You’ll find a significant history if you Google COSA. Casualties of Sexual Allegations.
Comment by Downunder — Tue 21st August 2018 @ 4:08 pm
Thanks, I have looked there before on the link from this site and read some astonishing stuff, but as you know each case is individual and it makes it all the more lonely for the one accused, it is a pity COSA does not exist.
Comment by mama — Tue 21st August 2018 @ 4:21 pm
It’s only as lonely as you let it be … punishment for a situation you didn’t create?
Comment by Evan Myers — Tue 21st August 2018 @ 4:48 pm
It is a lonely life out there for some of us.
At first you think its all rubbish but those acting on these allegations do not know you and take things at face value.
Some actually hate you and use you as a virtual punching ball just to feel good about themselves.
Whoever makes the allegations gets the support and the protection from facing the truth of their actions.
Most men think it is a misunderstanding and want to face their accuser not knowing that’s the surest way to jail.
Alleged victims get the red carpet all the way to court plus counseling and a free ride as well as coaching on how to act traumatized to limit inquiry on the stand.
Basically the victim protection bill denies you the right to face your accuser. And even when you do, the system will not allow you to get the truth directly out of them. Poor victim.
Then weeks turn to months and sometimes months turn to years and here you are still waiting for that day when that truth shall shine.
And then birthdays are followed by holidays and then christmas go flying past and it is another year.
but you are still glued to your screen waiting for that liberating email confirming it was all a bad joke.
One day you wake up and realize you have stepped out of your life. Have lost many friends and that sparkle in your eye you used to have has buried itself so deep into you you no longer recognize your own smile.
But then the news is the same, a build up to the next court conference.
And then it passes, the agenda has changed and so do the priorities.
And you have to chase your lAwyers to find what’ going on aND WHEN IS THE HEARING, IF ANY.
THEY ALL GOT PAID – you may be broke by then
ANOTHER CONFERENCE AND ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY to be denied justice AND THEN DELAYS , delays and delays…
You are told to go do counseling or get an anger management program when you have done nothing.
Sometimes you agree to it just to get it over with.
Then you are asked again to go for counseling when you are not the one that needs it and instead of the congenital liar that dobbed you in.
By then you are usually broke, can’t be fucked holding on to a day time job. depression has set in.
And then finally you get cleared and you think you are free.
But it’s all recorded. You’ve pissed the police off or the social worker or someone or another because it was there job to steal your life away from under you. But you escaped – this time.
the record stays. the next time, they have the ammunition in the record.
the next time again, they have triple the ammunition in the record.
This system is hell.
Find the people who know you truly. Their statements can help,
Any witness? They are like gold, cherish them. They hold the gateway to your freedom.
Yes all it takes is for someone to say “I have reason to believe…” and the machine comes crunching.
You do not need proof – I guess freedom of belief is revered in court.
Either that or you go to police and make a statement and they will do it all for you. for free
But you got to be first and be the claimant or the victim.
A defendant is the lowest form of being. Do not defend, counterclaim.
So find the truth and make that your claim. The truth shall set you free.
And of course do not hire a lawyer but pay for advice until you decide a lawyer is the best way.
You have three months to fight a protection order before it becomes permanent.
Comment by JustCurious — Tue 21st August 2018 @ 10:23 pm
Just curious, thank god someone knows
How I feel. I read every word you wrote.
Thanku for helping me put it all
Into prospective today againnn for me
When all this pent up energy can’t even
Be put into thoughts always bcoz its way
To draining.
Yep the day in a life of wake me up
This is a joke….don’t want to work
Coz of lawyers bills that’s going nowhere
Don’t want benefit coz its no life either
I had full custody through courts
Tresspass order protection order with me
And kids names on it and support order
And still had child taken out of country
Without me knowing been with cyps since 14 yrs old Taken off
My mum for nothing police breached there
Own orders and cyps (bullies) had ex
Walk in snatch my son out of my arms
With all those orders….to this day
NOTHING….but then all I can say to assholes
Is what if that was your kids and I
Thought it could. Never happen to me
Cyps and police are %$&#@ as I sit here
Waiting for a change at least my counsellor
Understands and believes me and
Evidentially listens…stay strong just
Curious I had to wait 27 years…not much
Longer until those held accountable
Thank god.
Comment by RealMum — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 3:25 am
I am really sorry to hear what you are going through.
27 years is a long time – an eternity for some.
Most people cannot understand what it is like to live a life sentence outside of bars or a jail cell.
But that is what it feels like. A prisoner without bars.
A childless parent witnessing the most horrific acts done to your child and others and feeling powerless.
You need to maintain your emotional, psychological and spiritual health for your own good and those that rely on you.
I know it’s not easy. But failing to do that, you will lose yourself. That’s the one thing you cannot afford.
In fact, like Khalil Gibran said:
It’s a lonely journey.
IF you are a believer. you have nothing to fear.
Surrender yourself to the all Mighty and rest in peace.
Do what you can within your powers and leave the rest to God.
He is the best of planners and the best of punisher.
Comment by JustCurious — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 9:40 am
For me this journey is a blessing.
With each allegation and with each affidavit, they have tried to murder my ego time and time again.
I have been made to face myself over and over and over.
I had to look deep within to find myself and who I really am.
But in the process, they have gifted me my self and true self.
The process has been painful but the most beautiful gift that came out of it is honesty.
THE honesty of looking at your self as you are without any egotistical veil.
And the INTIMATE Knowledge of the self that comes from it.
That knowledge is priceless. You are priceless. Each and everyone of us is Priceless.
Know thyself they said – He who knows himself knows God.
Love thyself they said – how else how can you love others?
So for me it has been a great journey of discovery.
Like people say enlightenment is detachment.
If that is true, we are way ahead of the game.
The illusion of control is removed. So is the illusion of power and ownership
All we have left is knowledge, discerning, tolerance, temperance and love.
More importantly, we are guiltless and fearless – they already have taken all our fears away.
What we are left with is the ultimate price.
Our freedom to love and not hate.
To hurt and not seek vengeance
and to love those that hurt us.
And all that was taught to us by their hate.
And by their fear of us which lead them to where they are at.
They may have won and taken the kids away but look at them. Are they happy?
Someone told me once, “A noble man or woman only hell is regret.”
I live in peace with myself but they live in hell, guilt and regret.
How could I hate them when they are already punishing themselves more and more every day.
I found happiness. But they are out there cowering trying to protect their stolen gain.
Comment by JustCurious — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 10:09 am
We’ve grown up in a Criminal Law Society.
We expect people before the courts to have a good reason to be there even if they are found not guilty.
This public attitude is unfortunately applied to the Family Court as we are not required to distinguish between Civil Law and Criminal Law.
The battle lines are there before you even encounter the confrontation.
Truth becomes subjective and as you have so eloquent said, one is not only left fighting on foreign ground but fighting oneself as to how best to deal with what confronts you.
Comment by Evan Myers — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 11:19 am
@ Just curious
I read your post three times . I will not bother you with my own experience but Every word you wrote
is true. We all know that . What save me form self destruction was latino dancing and a spite/anger to prove those despicable and greedy vultures that they can not overwhelm me . My ex was a diagnosed covert narciststs personality disorder person. I found that later . Educating myself and realizing she did the same to every men in her life also helped me on my to recovery
Comment by george simonovski — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 11:20 am
It is with some consolation that I hear others’ stories, but also a horrible reminder that truth is taken with a pinch of salt, especially when spoken by an apparent victim who is actually a pathological lier and has wielded her power upon a young one in her care and on top of this counsellors have piled on top of the initial allegations. all the while you are left to feel as if you are living under a cloud of suspicion and the frustration of your innocence can be overwhelming… all you have is yourself and the few true friends and family who actively support you.
When months turn into years in the family court system your friends go back to their normal lives and wonder why you can not move on,, it is a living hell and as has been said here an ongoing sentence , one for life, that even when no charges are laid that the family court does not clear you, your name will never be cleared of suspicion and the evil people whom themselves know the truth can still use the untruth of an allegation to trip you up in the future.
Comment by mama — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 12:15 pm
My view is that the public at large are now ignorant of the historical development of Criminal Law within a Christian Society and the political separation of powers.
To give an example of this alignment the Christian says;
We see what you do but God sees what you are thinking.
This translates into law as
Actus reus and Mens rea (Latin may need checking)
The actions and the thoughts that make the person guilty.
These religious concepts are also the foundation of our criminal courts and jury trials.
Feminists have railed against our religions and the churches largely remain quiet for the preservation of their charity status and probably the hope we’ll come to our senses.
Helen Clark if nothing else was at least honest to a degree about the Feminist agenda;
“We are creating a secular society.”
As opposed to a sacred society – all religions can go to hell is probably what she wanted to say.
“We are creating a civil society.”
Criminal Law might suit the Christian mind but Civil Law suits the Feminist mind.
This is where you see the objective and subjective variations of truth and the difference in these two realms of law.
Very hard for the man in the street to get his head around, believe me, the average bloke does not want a head full of this …
But I hope that gives a degree of explanation around social truth that we struggle with.
Comment by Downunder — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 12:53 pm
Well, I have to say it and I suppose I am allowed and that it will not be held against me…
I am an atheist and I am comfortable with my choice, or lack of it. I am just human and work on logic, what floors me with the justice system is the ability for people to write a so called document of truth, an affidavit, and this be upheld as a truthful document even when penned by some pathological lier whom has the law on their side.
Comment by mama — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 1:04 pm
This is the response Feminists love to hear.
The political response of recent particularly from the Greens, “you believe in the invisible man.’
The Christian religion has been so successful because it distinguished between God and Godhead.
In this respect believe what you want about God, but let Godhead have regard for the wellbeing of society.
Even an atheist could be comfortable with this if they see the truth they want in society.
Comment by Downunder — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 1:14 pm
Okay, but please let me take back the importance of calling myself an atheist, I am just Human, I refer to myself as atheist as a rebuttle to hearing about the insistence of there being some one to watch over us, or should I say ME.
I would assume that if a society was seen to be successful by way of christian thinking, then moralistic values should prevail, not money and peoples arses, guilt before innocence etc. etc..
I get it though, you know much about history which has lead to today and it is what it is and it makes religion look even worse in my eyes.
When atheism is described it goes on to talk about the french revolution,, …
Comment by mama — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 4:19 pm
The French Revolution was an enlightenment rebellion against the French Monarchy and the Catholic Church.
The French had a very strong culture that supported their continuing progress.
That, I think is a void in New Zealand that Feminism has been determined to fill.
As is often recorded in anthropology; a way of life was destroyed but nothing was put in its place.
Perhaps we should on the same basis look at what has been destroyed and what we have been given instead.
Comment by Downunder — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 5:13 pm
a, Amen to that! , Downunder. ..and enlightenment is the key, so “tuiiii” to that, ie, yeah right, aint gunna happen.
b, Yes a young country like this is bound to be cultureless, I do not really want to use this word but for want of one better, NZ needs a holistic approach, but with balls would be good, not too trumpish of course, oh no, not too jacinderish either, we need some one new…just for fun..who would you choose.???
There is this English guy, when interviewed by NZ tv recently, he laughed about having our own ‘trump’ and was talking about Winston, I hear the other day that this guy is getting back into politics to herald the Brexit position,,he would be good to have at ones helm..Mr Nigel Farage.
Comment by mama — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 5:35 pm
What had this Cultural Feminism given us?
A dysfunction education system
An overflowing prison system
A confused justice system
Really what is up side?
Comment by Evan Myers — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 5:52 pm
# 22, I think that education has suffered much at the loss of men in the sector.
Comment by mama — Wed 22nd August 2018 @ 6:37 pm
I find everyones truthfulness of words that makes sense to me comforting. Slightly moved in respect that I found my way here in life on this page – a page that some dont know exist – words from those it should have come from in mornings days and nights of desparation
This page keeps me breathing. This page keeps my mind sane. This page helps me. This page stops me from thinking to much about evil people that didnt have permission.
…..reading paragraphs by justcurious11, justcurious12, evenmyers13, mama15, downunder16. relieving to sense someone else helping and supporting me to think for a change when my brain feels the need to switch to not wanting to think mode #feeling strength
Comment by RealMum — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 1:41 am
If I chose a job where I’d sit in front of a camera and spout on about fluffy animals and gender pay gaps and pretend it was the news of the day- I’d be depressed too.
Comment by Voices back from the bush — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 11:13 am
12,,JustCurious…I can not wish these things we talk of here on any one…It is not a blessing by any stretch of MY imagination…I am happy for you that you could feel it to be a blessing of some form ..for my son perhaps this is somewhat true, he has had to endure horrific things.. but we as his family…., the effect is truly arduous and no blessing..
Comment by mama — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 11:49 am
You are right Mama… My philoso-folie is
“if Am to be sad, I may as well find a way to enjoy it.”
I would not wish for anyone to walk in the shoes I have walked in nor of anyone here that knows what it feels.
The point I was making is that even when all choices of actions are taken away from you – you can still chose how to feel.
The blessing is of KNOWING AND understanding myself. Incidentally loving my self.
Lol,I am in love and through me, all beings.:-) And no I do not do drugs or drink alcohol.
There is a higher high.
I am sure there are myriads of other ways I would have learned about myself without the entrenched court disputes I have been involved in.
I mean over ten years of it including a number of times where I lost my kids, got them back just to lose them again – rinse and repeat – allegations without notice – arrests …. the list goes on.
The hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions of hours spent listening to counselors, certain lawyers masturbating over their own peroraisons…
And yet I am still here with my kids, working day by day keeping myself from hating and from depression and simply taking every day as a blessing.
And building the reality I know they deserve no matter what has been done to me and them.
I know if I go down the deep end, my kids lose. So can’t afford to go down on myself:-)
But if someone hates you enough to do that to you and to your kids, why share in their misery and hold hate, anger, fear?
Let that be their curse. They have to live in their own skin.
those things kill you faster than anything they can throw at you.
Comment by JustCurious — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 12:59 pm
Life is an apprenticeship – pain is your master
Pain hollows you out so you can deepen, learn and grow.
The strongest tree is not the hardest but the one that yields.
It’s not always sunny. It’s not always rainy.
But when you know the sun is always behind the rain clouds.
Then you know it is always sunny.
People think why me?
It’s not fair?
I do not deserve this!
That is all true but what can you do about it?
Comment by JustCurious — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 1:05 pm
Win and they will hate you for it.
Help other people win and they hate you with a passion and hurt you any way they can.
Comment by Downunder — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 1:07 pm
#27 and # 28,, I admire your strength and your weakness too, that you stayed for what must have been the long haul, your children are lucky indeed.
no ones wins during this current family court process, thats for sure, little wins along the way would have been encouraging, I do not find it cares for the family as a whole and absense does not make the heart grow fonder, just confusion, frustration,..
Comment by mama — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 1:26 pm
@30 so true. No one wins. That is the saddest acknowledgement to be made.
@24, you are not alone. and stronger than many of us. Chin up.:-)
Comment by JustCurious — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 11:31 pm
@justcurious please keep writing I find your words
Very positive and enlightening.
Soothing and fundamental.
And makes so much sense. It’s not every day
I meet someone who has being through
Such tragedy. I feel myself making little
Step by step improvements – the learning
Of turning from wishing to find how to turn
Ongoing grief into my own self peace.
All my writings use to be negative….
The scars will be there but it would be
Nice i imagine to wake up with a smile…..
Speak of nice things….learning how to
Be positive all the time around people
…..anyway….i can pick up you must read
A lot through your references of words.
Thank you.
Comment by RealMum — Thu 23rd August 2018 @ 11:55 pm
Thanks realmum.
It’s one common experience felt on a personal perspective.
We are all undergoing the same dream and simply shuffling under the blankets seeking light.
And respite from this ongoing nightmare.
Comment by JustCurious — Tue 28th August 2018 @ 2:50 pm
##4.. Downunder, can you please extrapolate what you mean by allegations made in court, I fear this may be happening and I live in fear.
Comment by mama — Wed 29th August 2018 @ 9:55 am
An allegation made in a criminal court is what the prosecution set out to prove.
That’s what we see in our newspapers and in our lounges through the TV screen.
Remembering that the opposite, is the case in a civil court, where the advancing party’s claim is accepted (based usually, on its validity of course) and stands validated if it is not defended.
It is not hard to manufacture an affidavit for the purpose of a protection order or conflict to procur an advantageous situation, regardless of the end goal, custody or some form of financial gain.
Comment by Downunder — Wed 29th August 2018 @ 10:14 am
that’s worth quoting:-)
Comment by JustCurious — Wed 29th August 2018 @ 1:54 pm
Be my guest.
They can manufacture a whole court case when it comes to a conspiracy to injure.
Comment by Downunder — Wed 29th August 2018 @ 2:18 pm
The affidavit..an unfortunate and ugly truth, affidavits should only be able to be produced after muchoo mediation, instead of produced under time pressure and when emotion is raw and instead pretty near to a hate speech is what gets produced.
Comment by mama — Wed 29th August 2018 @ 2:30 pm