Anyone got a better idea.
I don’t profess to be a seasoned veteran of the men’s movement but here is the benefit of my observations from the last few years. Small groups and to name three of recent times FARE, UOF, PARENTSANDCHILDREN, are vote catchers for mainstream political parties. Anyone who attempts to take one of these organisations beyond that status will be cut off at the knees.
Any event likely to create a politically undesirable situation is easily sabotaged, and is and has been done so by political parties, many times in the past. If you do manage to create a relatively apolitical organisation like for example Separated Fathers, or Men’s Centre North Shore your chances of being funded outside of your own pocket is very limited.
The promise of change — hell even the Greens promised to reform the Family Court in 1999 election. If you want change it is not about voting for promises it is about understanding the effect of the policy of the political party you vote for, and looking past the media bullshit. If we have learnt something from our British counterparts, it is a waste of time creating a single issue political party.
If those of you who feel equally frustrated about this continual cycle of defeat, you may wish to do what many of us have done. Last year a few of us created The Republic of New Zealand Party. It was small beginnings, but it is about creating a complete political party that is focused on restoring the integrity of NZ society. Past mid 2006 we have 2 years or less to gain sufficient political support to obtain representation in parliament. It is entirely possible, but only possible if you are prepared to get out from behind your computer and put your energy, and your independent expertise into building a political party that has the policies you want.
Personally I don’t enjoy the politics we endure in this country, in fact I don’t even like this country the way it is, and the only reason I remain is because I have children who are not old enough to make independent decisions about where they want to live. While I am here then I will commit my energy to the republicans and I can only hope that many of you might consider doing the same thing.
Bevan,
I understand that you have been involved in all this for years by your knowledge and I do think (even though I am against little moves because of my own personal ethics) what everyone is doing is in the same direction.
The funding faults however, I think stem from other issues for other groups are getting funding (not as much as female groups) and are helping to support men through troubled times. Having a charity group and fighting for funding between groups is hard work for all groups. Even tenders are made at times to provide needs that the bigger players are willing to fund. It is very similar to running a business and you know what that is like especially with salary and wage earners. Then there are the trustees who are people in the community and for the men more than women have full-time jobs and familiy commitments also. I would say some of these players are up to 10 times more on to it than polititions.
Polititions seem to be the puppets.
But you need both side by side.
Infact I would mention more than the one’s you have mentioned and that there is support to bring them all together as well as quarterly magazines in bookshops.
Anyhow, not everyone should join protestors outside lawyer’s homes or political parties because of positions they hold in the community and many groups are not for one gender over the other.
But the protesting has its place and is making a big hole for others to exploit. These others that are working in the community can then do what they do.
The republic party, Hmmm. I have only been involved in community work for a year so I don’t consider myself clever enough for politics. I have heaps more to learn before I have wisdom but I think people like you who have been around that should go for it. However, I am curious as to what more you stand for than father’s rights.
Comment by julie — Tue 5th September 2006 @ 9:59 am
What in the heck do you mean by-
“Small groups and to name three of recent times FARE, UOF, PARENTSANDCHILDREN, are vote catchers for mainstream political parties. Anyone who attempts to take one of these organisations beyond that status will be cut off at the knees. ”
What political connections do these organizations have?
I don’t know of any.
UOF is certainly not “Funded”, I am sure that FARE is not, I don’t know about PARENTSANDCHILDREN.
You say “If we have learnt something from our British counterparts, it is a waste of time creating a single issue political party.”
Then you advocate us all joining the “Judean Peoples Liberation Republican Party” or something.
I looked hard at your beloved Republican party- it has a most nondescript and unappealing ragbag of policies, and I don’t think it got any votes at all in the last election.
Bevan, I have a lot of respect for you-
but if you want to lead something, you need to do better than alienate everyone else on the same side!
Save your shot for the real enemy!
Comment by John Brett — Tue 5th September 2006 @ 7:07 pm
I’m not out to alienate anyone. I am not being critical of anything these organisations have achieved. If it wasn’t for these organisations we would be far worse off now than one would care to imagine. What I have said is that in order to create change we need to do something different to what we have been doing for the past seven years that I have been involved. These organisations will continue to exist and for good reason. What I want to see happen is that we consolidate our vote. What I have said is that I am with the Republicans, as meagre as it may appear to you at the moment, that’s where I will be.
Comment by Bevan Berg — Tue 5th September 2006 @ 7:48 pm
Bevan,
You have more than you know. You have the right people right infront of you.
But some of what you and others are prepared to do is plain wrong. If you want the right people to help you, you have to be worthy of them.
Straight up, brother. You reap what you sow.
Comment by julie — Tue 5th September 2006 @ 7:58 pm
Well it seems to me the right people have been idle observers for a long time, and will continue to be so as long as it doesn’t have a direct impact on their lives, so I wasn’t really expecting then to inconvenience themselves on my behalf. You seem to have decided I am guilty of something?
Comment by Bevan Berg — Tue 5th September 2006 @ 8:22 pm
Bevan,
I do not think you are guilty of anything. I just have to learn how to be a bit more sensitive towards others.
The right people have not been idle observers. The right people have been with you for along time. You just haven’t bonded.
You and them have been working as individual groups which has made you weakish as a movement. They are not into the FC issues but into other men’s issues.
On politics. I seriously considered joining ‘United Future’ after Peter (I think) posted something about South Auckland and how it really is for the people because we work out there. These are the people I care about.
I got a reply back saying, “We checked out your website and we will be calling on you for information.”
Oh my God, they want to listen to us (group) and use what we have to say.
That’s good politics as far as I am concerned. What they are doing is really hearing the people. I don’t think you will find many social workers, nurses, doctors and more that believe what the state is telling its people. They want to help people, that’s why they do what they do.
I spoke with an executive manager of CYFS last week. (He nevers want to get into another relationship.)
The plans they have for the future are worthwhile. They want to step back from smaller cases and refer them to community groups so that they can take care of just serious cases. The Government has given them millions of dollars for their solution. Now we have more money to spend on the community groups and their expertise.
All men’s groups that are out there helping children and families will get a bigger slice. Now, we can get free councelling for our boys.
People that care for others are worthwhile people. They are your allies. I know it is hard to put aside the pain and frustration that you and other men here have endured through years of fighting. Yet, I think you should listen to the new one’s coming up in the ranks.
Something Stephen said comes to mind.
He said that he has worked for years out west with anger management and warned me that I could also become bitter in time. That’s true because I am a heart person rather than a head person. But I am not there today. Today I am optimistic, friendly, trusting – all the things you and Stephen would have been years ago.
So use us. It is not just about the hunter cutting down the trees to make a clearing, it is also about the hard work to build a community.
Comment by julie — Wed 6th September 2006 @ 10:22 am
you avoided the question.
But some of what you and others are prepared to do is plain wrong.
whats plain wrong….?
Comment by Bevan Berg — Wed 6th September 2006 @ 10:50 am
Bevan,
Well, I asked for this.
Do you know that I spent another night with your group while the guys were protesting in Napier?
And I listened to what they had to say after the group. They need leadership but they (for the most are not anti women nor on benefits) say they want to work something out.
When you work something out with another party, you have to negotiate. That means ‘give and take.’ You can’t have it all your way and the female movement has to sacrafice.
I think some of you have to get with the times. I have no idea who is to apologise to you for I can’t figure out who to blame. Helen Clarke can’t apologise for doing a job as most was in power before she got there and I want to apologise for all women but that won’t be accepted. So what do you want?
That is what you have to figure out.
I asked Jim from ‘father’s coalition’ what they want and all I got was a question. “What do I and my son want?”
I can’t give him the DPB while his ex-wife is on it and nor can anyone I know.
What does the ‘father’s coalition’ want? Do they want the right to grieve and abuse other people while they grieve? Well, that is bullshit. Maybe everyone should blame others and protest outside their houses to grieve.
The Family Court is changing, great. And hopefully, one day soon we will have shared parenting. Great for I and many females would love a break and 50% of the time sounds great to me. In fact, I wish my ex would take the kids. (Yes, he owes me)But that does not mean I don’t love them but that I could find shared parenting very useful.
But I wonder if all fathers want this 50/50? Maybe they want a boat or a home or a successful business but hey, that’s tough. 50/50 is just that.
Nothing is in place for this and that is what is wrong. You have to find ways for these people to cope. Some men, maybe not many wouldn’t have a clue how to change a nappy or get up in the middle of the night for feeding. And then there is the question of breast feeding.
Protest, make a political party, do as you will. But think about the pieces of the community YOU (yes, you) are being responsible for.
Don’t offend everyone by giving problems. For Goodness sake, we have enough of those but give solutions. Tha is what is wrong here.
Nobody is giving solutions. Nobody is seeing past themselves. (That is intended for your political party and coalition)
Comment by julie — Wed 6th September 2006 @ 6:20 pm
hi all am back..
anyway Julie.. good comments however…”many females would love a break and 50% of the time sounds great to me.”… now this is interesting.. have heard this from many females married and otherwise.. howver during separation, they dig in and become very hard nosed about this happening.. afterall one would think that separation would provide them with the perfect opportunity to come to such arrangements.. and even when it is offered to them.. they not only do not take it but move way in the other direction…
Comment by starr — Wed 6th September 2006 @ 6:54 pm
Dear Julie,
You have asked for it and you are going to get it.
A.The “Coalition” do not abuse, truth is never abusive, just truth.
B. DPB can be given to two parents and has been granted in the past.
C. Shared equal parenting should be the legal presumption, parties can cede to actual amount of time spent upon ability, capability and bestowment of Mother Nature upon mutual consent.
I am tired of the swings and roundabouts that you portray on this site, perhaps this is due to hormonal changes, don’t really care.
Get completely informed prior to issuing comment.
Slight regards this time.
Paul
Comment by Paul Catton — Wed 6th September 2006 @ 9:08 pm
Firstly, Starr,
Good to see you back. I have been wondering what you have been up to. I thought maybe you were on “Trade me” challenging the females.
Paul,
We are going to knock heads and that is that. I (sort of) feel sorry for you as I don’t normally give sympathy to families as dysfunctional as you potray your ex’s. Yet I know from experience you must have been a part of it. You cannot live in that sort of environment as an innocent adult. It’s not possible.
But your son Michael, I feel will be a person who helps shape the world. Not only has he cleaned himself from alcohol and drugs but he is protective of his family. Maybe that is why he physically hurt you. I think you should get counselling and stop running this family down.
So your ex-wife did wrong. I bet she wishes she never did that now but she did. You are fighting back hard and you seem like you will get to see your children.
But, it is plain wrong to destroy the grandparents and others.
Great look for the Republic Party.
Bevan,
If anyone is interested, family groups are looking for people to be trained as mediators, etc to take the place of the FC where possible.
Comment by julie — Thu 7th September 2006 @ 9:37 am
Well that’s next step in the same disaster isn’t it. Who is going do that training? I would have thought there would be enough suitably qualified people in the University of Life, who might apply for those public positions, and maintain them through respectable decisions.
Comment by Bevan Berg — Thu 7th September 2006 @ 11:27 am
I think I should pull out now before I bring harm to my family and neighbours families.
If you were to blacklist me and protest outside my home, someone could very likely go to prison and it won’t be from your side. (you may be peaceful people, but we WILL fight) And I will be responsible for that.
It is not a risk I am prepared to take.
Comment by julie — Thu 7th September 2006 @ 2:01 pm
Who is “we” Julie
Comment by Bevan Berg — Thu 7th September 2006 @ 2:08 pm
Bevan,
Look, maybe nothing would go wrong but it could. If my son gets upset, his neighbouring friends would get upset. If the boys get upset, the mothers will get upset. If the mother’s get upset the father’s and one or two other men get upset.
This has happened before.
I came here to learn and that’s what I have done and I don’t want to leave on a bad note for I am grateful even though on this post I am fighting you and Paul.
You guys will work it out.
Comment by julie — Thu 7th September 2006 @ 5:07 pm
Hi Julie
me on trademe>> LOL.. thats a forum filled with lunatics.. don’t even wanna go there..
Comment by starr — Fri 8th September 2006 @ 2:52 pm