CYFS and our baby
WE NEED HELP.
Let me introduce myself,
we have a 5 month old son called Alex. Alex was born in Chch Womens hospital in June of this year and was very premature coming 11 weeks early and weighing only 780g. My wife had a very troublesome pregnancy as she suffers from several health problems which made conceiving a baby almost impossible, so it was a miracle that she found she was pregnant on 24 Dec last year.
In March of this year her pregnancy became worse as her bad back was starting to give her trouble as was her diabetes. I at this stage gave up my work to be able to stay at home to care for her as she was mostly bed ridden and unable to do day to day chores in the running of the house. This put a strain on our financial state as we had to go onto a benefit to survive. It took WINZ a month to put a benefit in place and we struggled through the whole of March with no income.
On my birthday May 23, my wife took ill and was admitted to Chch Womens hospital, as her diabetes had worsened and she became insulin dependant. During this time for the safety of baby she decided herself to stop her epilepsy and anti depression medication as these drugs in her system would be harmful to the developing baby. My wife spent 4 agonising weeks completely on bed rest as she struggled with her own health and that of baby. The diabetes was contributing to another medical condition known as pre-eclampsia, this causes a decreased blood flow to the placenta and was dramatically slowing down the growth of baby.
The doctors were trying to keep baby going until he was strong enough to remove. She kept going for another week and on Jul 14 the decision was made to take baby. My wifes health was getting worse by the hour, her liver and kidneys were closing down, and we were in great danger of loosing them both. On June 15 at 11:30am she was taken to the theatre for an emergency cesarean and the baby was delivered at 11:55am.
He was so small and was only 780g and there was the possibility he would not survive as there were no respiratory effort and a very low heart beat. However day by day he grew more stronger as she recovered from her surgery.
Alex was transferred to NICU level 3 where he was ventilated and monitored very closely. My wife and I stayed by his incubator for 10+ hours per day every day. After a week she was allowed to come home, and we commenced daily commuting back and forth to the hospital, 4 times a day as she was home expressing milk for him. Alex spent two and a half months in NICU with a loving and devoted Mum spending hours by his cot reading and feeding her new son.
The day finally arrived when they said we could take him home. Great the best day of our life. He was discharged on oxygen, as being premature his lungs were still developing, and had a sleep monitor which alerts us to him having stopped breathing during the night. But it was great having him home, no more travelling.
Alex quickly settled to life at home and we were very proud parents, we sent lots of pictures to our families, mine in Nelson andmt wifes in South Africa, we loved to show him off! He had heaps of visitors, his friends from Neonatal Outreach, Plunket and CCS all call regularly to monitor his progress and they are all thrilled by the way, we as new parents are treating and nurturing our child. His Well Child Book is filled with glowing reports as to his progress.
Alex has grown from a 780g prem baby to what he is today, a 5.5kg smiley, bubbly and very friendly baby. We as parents have taken all care of our son, from his regular doctors checks to his 6 weekly immunisations and have never let him fall prey to the many bugs and viruses out in the open air. We have sacrificed our humble lifestyle to make sure he is safe and secure.
My wife even stopped expressing milk for Alex as her depression and epilepsy started to return and she needed to go back onto her medications. This was a huge wrench for her as she thought she would be classed as a bad mother for doing so. However on medical advice and on the opinions of our support teams, she restarted her treatments. This was after she had stored over 100, 120ml bottles of milk in our freezer! Alex has had a good start to life, a little shaky to begin, but with our love and care he is today a gorgeous and lively son.
NOW OUR PROBLEM
On Fri evening last at about 6pm, Alex had just finished his evening bath. I was carrying him from the bathroom to the bedroom for my wife to ready for bed. I had him in my arms and as I was about to settle him on the bed, he gave an enormous kick, this set him rolling inwards from my arms, and he started to fall to the floor. With my left hand I instinctively grabbed at whatever I could get to stop his fall. My hand closed around his upper right arm and I pulled him up onto the bed. Thank God I thought he didn’t hit the floor.
Alex was of course a bit startled, and gave a few cries, and at that point my wife came into the room and commenced to dress him for bed. I told him I had a close call, and she told me to be more careful. She swaddled him for the night in his wrap and put him to bed with his bottle. He was a little irritable, but we thought nothing of that as he normally is at bed time when he is tired. He had his bottle and went off to sleep. At around 1am he started to cry, its his early feed we thought, and gave him another bottle and I turned him to his right side.
That was when he really yelped! I turned him onto his back and he calmed, but was fairly grizzly for the rest of the night. At around 3am he was quite noisy and really crying hard. My wife took him from the bed, but when picking him up, he screamed. My wife unwrapped him from his blanket, and
his left arm started to wave around, but the right was just lying there, with no movement and no grasp in his hand.
We gave him 3ml of liquid Panadol and called A&E at Chch Hospital who told us to bring him in. We arrived at the hospital at 4am, he was examined, xrayed and told he had a fracture in his upper right arm.
At around 6am the doctor told us that because of the nature of the injury she would be calling in the Social worker and she would talk to us. She did come and talk and told us that CYFS would have to be notified. We had no objection to this at all as we had nothing to hide, and we had bought him in because of the accident. The doctor returned later to tell us the xray showed a clean break and was not consistent with an injury as i had described and further examinations of Alex would be required to see if he had other injuries. Once again we did not object as this was hospital protocol in these matters.
He had the next day a full skeletal xray, which we as his parents were excluded from. This upset my wife terribly as Alex is not used to be with strangers, especially as the examination was going to be a painful one. The results came back and too our shock and horror they told us he also had a small fracture to the left knee. This they told us would only be caused by vigourous shaking. we were stunned. Our little man has never been shaken, we would never harm our son, he is far too precious. They then told us they would do an MRI to check for damage to his brain. We got the results of that several agonising hours later. No damage, at least thats some consolation we thought, and we felt a little lighter.
Later that day to our horror we were taken from the hospital by the Police, seperately and in different cars. We were ( I will use the term interrogated) for 4 hours, my wife in her vunerable state by 2 male detectives and myself by 1 female detective. We gave them our statements of the event and were taken back to the hospital. The next day my wife was again taken to our home for them to take photos and she was again questioned at length. They keep on at her, trying to tell her to make me confess. But what am I supposed to confess too, it was an accident for Gods sake.
The Police are taking it out on my wife and her emotional state is now so low she is having major asthma attacks and has not slept since last Saturday. I now fear she is going to have a complete breakdown. We had an interview with CYFS yesterday and they had a meeting today with the hospital, Police and our support teams Plunket, CCS and Neonatal Outreach, who spoke in our defence. A call late this afternoon from CYFS told us that we are going to loose our child. We are both devastated, no one will believe us when we say what had happened.
The hospital wont give us the information we need, all they keep telling us is “that the break could only be caused by vigourous shaking”. We have no immediate family for support, its only the two of us against the system, which is proving too powerful for us. We are going to loose our son which my wife fought so bravely to bring into this world. We love him and want to bring him home where he is safe. He has already caught a virus in hospital and had a nurse drop a toy train on his head!
Please we are at our wits end, my wife and I are emotionally drained, we have even considered owning up to something we did not do to make this all go away. This is a nightmare, I wish I could wake in a cold sweat and find it is.
Please help us bring our baby home for Xmas.
Footnote:
CYFS took our child yesterday from the hospital to a home, while this matter is investigated. We as parents seem to have lost our rights, and I fear for my wife’s health wellbeing.
Thank you so much for your time in reading this.
Hi Brikari,
First my depest sorrows. I am a senior field worker for PANIC (Parents against Negatie Intervention by CYF) Reading your post was like reading tomorrows news. There are so many thousand babies taken this way in NZ. If You haven’t got a Lawyer, get one NOW. Don’t meet with CYF alone, bring a trusted friend with you. Tape all meetings (CYF Don’t like that)Visit http://www.PANIC.org.nz and read the post about fighting for your child
Alastair
Comment by Alastair — Fri 16th December 2005 @ 4:18 pm
Dear Brikari
I will help you and I am better than any parastic lawyer ( I do not charge any money ) -please do not feel uncomfortable as I can help as CYFS are a dysfunctional mess.I know the sick system only to well.
I live in Christchurch -please ring me anytime -3473278 or cell 021456982 as I will make time to get this sorted and believe me I will . It is not fair mate but please trust me and ring me as I got CYFS on the back foot big time regarding several other tragic cases including my own major depressive episode.
Peter Burns -dad4justice
27 Elizabeth
Rolleston
Canterbury
Comment by Peter Burns — Fri 16th December 2005 @ 5:47 pm
A gut wrenching story and I understand well what it is like to almost lose a child at birth and go thru the agony worrying for months whether the baby will survive.
Alastair & Peter seem to be good allies for you and it always helps to talk to someone u can trust. It amazes me that CYFS can virtually snatch babies without considering the detrimental impact on the health of both child and parents and without clear evidence of child abuse.
I would like you consider taking your case immediately to the media…i.e contact the various documentary teams. get this matter into the public eye and gain support from the general public. It’s only a suggestion but it might help get things moving. something like this could easily make the national news within days and snowball from there.
Best Wishes
Comment by Morris Lindsay — Fri 16th December 2005 @ 9:37 pm
Hi Alex & Family,
You poor people. I’m afraid your story is all too typical of the way CYFS and our other Social Control agencies operate. Someone gets a nasty idea into their head, persuades all the others that that is how it is, and then that’s all they can see from then on.
It was the same with the Peter Ellis case, the Arthur Allen Thomas case, the Bain case, and many others. Blatant prejudice and predetermination, blinding people to the plain facts.
Anyway, there is a very weak link in their argument, but I won’t broadcast it here. The way these people operate, if you point out the flaw in their argument, they just “fix it up” or make some other, harder to disprove allegation. There is nothing decent, honest or ethical about these people, who basically think that everyone else is a liar, and that they are the only people who “know the truth.” They have absolutely no qualms about making up massive lies to try to destroy the truth of what you say. They think they are doing “the right thing” by getting you put away, or removing your child into custody.
Anyway, to counter this, I agree with the comments of the previous writer - go to the media ASAP. Also, I suggest you contact the Human Rights Commission about the breaches of your and your son’s basic Human Rights.
Also, try to tape record every conversation you have with any of these people. Do it without informing them. You don’t need to advise them. It’s only unlawful to secretly record a 3rd party conversation - aka bugging. So long as you are a party to the conversation, it’s lawful. For phone calls you can buy an inexpensive adapter from Dick Smith Electronics.
E-mail me off-line at alcandy[at]ihug[dot]co[dot]nz if you want my unwritten comments.
Best of luck,
Alan Candy
Chairman
Men’s Centre North Shore Inc.
Comment by paulc — Fri 16th December 2005 @ 11:09 pm
All the best. You have good advice above.
Especially regarding having a third party present and taping all conversations.
Comment by Ken Maclaren — Sat 17th December 2005 @ 7:45 pm
Note that tape recordings may not be admissable as evidence further down the track if they were covert - the other parties were not made aware that conversations were being recorded.
I fully endorse recording - I have some phone contact with my child, and record these.
It’s amazing the prompting from mother-dearest in the back ground that you overhear!
(I also have some face to face contact, but covert recording is a bit more difficult when playing on a floor)
Comment by Al D Rado — Mon 19th December 2005 @ 7:51 am
Hi Brykari,
On your behalf, I sent a copy of your situation through to some of our MPs. A good response has been received from Judy Turner, Deputy Leader, United Future:
“I have forwarded your e-mail to the Minister of CYFS Ruth Dyson requesting an investigation. I am leaving NZ for a month on Monday and so a direct referral is the best option at this time of the year. I certainly can understand your anxiety. Please keep me informed with your case.
Judy Turner (Deputy Leader)
UNITED FUTURE
on behalf of Hon Peter Dunne”
It will pay for you to make contact with Judy Turner directly so as the response by Ruth Dyson to her ministerial request may be managed properly. Judy’s contact details are:
Ph: (04) 470 6992
Email: judy.turner@parliament.govt.nz
Stay strong!
Comment by Mark Shipman — Fri 23rd December 2005 @ 9:39 am
I think that its really terrible that CYFFS can get away with lying and building false cases of child abuse in the family court. Innocent parents along with their children are suffering as a result of this modern day gestapo who is day-to-day cheating ordinary Kiwis out of raising their children within their own culture. People are dying on waiting lists to have their surgeries while the government continue to destroy innocent lives with their Nazi Witch Hunt. It’s horrible to be written off by equally corrupt Shrinks & Psychologists that are paid off by CYFFS to tatally demoralize anyone who is unfortunate enough to be thrown into this corrupt system and without trial or hearing be torn away from their beloved family all due to false allegations and out-&-out lies told by these Social Workers’ & all who conspire with them to line their pockets full of money & tear children away from safe & loving homes where they are far more likely to be harmed if not killed by handing them over to strangers. I know from my own personal experience how CYFFS emotionally extort & blackmail biological family into handing their children over to the state. This is a wicked waste of tax-payers money. CYFFS care & protection orders are a total violation of innocent families struggling to obtain justice for their loved ones. The law is crazy!!! I think that you should committ the crime before you are charged with it. I refuse to bow down to a system of fear. I want the right to be able to raise my family in my own culture just as any other normal New Zealand family would like to. The same thing happened to the Aboriginal children who were uplifted in the 1960’s, accept the NZ government does it so much better because they know no race or creed. The Government should be made to hand back the stolen generation of Kiwi kids, and pay compensation for suffering caused by corrupt power craized Social Workers & all who help them to do such evil towards the family unit of NZ. It’s heartbreaking to be lied to as much as CYFFS have lied, deceived and emotionally bullied & blackmailed so many ordinary NZ families. Social Work was put on the planet to empower not disable. It’s high time CYFFS were exposed for all of the wicked and nasty things that they do to the family, they have messed up to many lives and its time for them to be brought to justice. CYFFS are of pure evil & doing the complete oppisite of their own laws. CYFFS are causing so many suicides amongst us by calliously breaking up the family unit. Michelle in the Waikato ph: (07) 849-0331 to see a big protest march take place here in NZ
I would lov
Comment by Michelle — Tue 10th January 2006 @ 3:01 pm
Just to update you all. We have copies of the hospital radiologists reports saying originaly “There are APPEARACES of a bucket handle fracture to rhe left distal femur”
Second xray states “PROBABLE fracture of the left distal femur”
The Pediatricians report to CYFS and the Police based on the FIRST report says he “HAS a bucket handle fracture to the left distal femur”.
On the 15 Dec, two weeks after the accident he had his knee xrayed again….result….
“NO bucket handle fracture or metaphysial fracture to the left distal femur IS IDENTIFIED”
What do we do now!!!
Cheers Bryan.
Comment by Brykari — Tue 10th January 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Dear Bryan
So just like me the police interviews and CYFS intervention was all unnessary based on assumptions with no legal standing !!?? Not to mention the trauma the idiotic system has caused your lovely wife . Dam the system . They got it wrong again and no one in government is accountable. What a disgrace our country is when cops and social workers can cause so much damage to the kiwi kids through hateful social policy enforced by uncaring corrupt state officials .
I hope you can be ‘rest assured’ cops & CYFS will not ruin your next Christmas.We are going to force the much needed change so parents are given back their God given parental rights!!!!!!!! In solidarity -dad4justice
Comment by Peter Burns — Thu 12th January 2006 @ 10:00 am
There has been increasing concern recently about the high incidence of spurious diagnoses of ’shaken baby syndrome’. This problem is not unique to New Zealand; it is being reported worldwide, and is especially prevalent in developed countries. I know that is small comfort to you, but perhaps the experience of others who have fought and won this battle may help you.
Recently, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation aired a segment on THE SUNDAY EDITION which dealt with this subject. If my memory is not too far off, it was broadcast on January 8th or 15th, and the producer was Barbara Wells, a well-known investigative reporter here in Canada. The program focused on the case of a woman in the U.K. who was accused of shaking her baby, and contained extensive interviews with her and many medical specialists. You may be able to hear this radio documentary on the web via the following link:
http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/pastshows.html
Another recent exposé of the horrors of the child welfare systems was the movie, “LES VOLEURS D’ENFANCE”, a major documentary produced here in Quebec by Paul Arcand. It is about the Quebec DPJ (Departement de Protection de la Jeunesse) and how instead of protecting children, it actually abuses them. This documentary received extremely wide theatrical distribution and critical acclaim throughout Canada, and was released in an English version as well (the English title is: “Thieves of Innocence”). It was released fairly recently, sometime in the past 6 months if I remember correctly. Here is a link to the producer’s webpage:
http://www.allianceatlantisfilms.com/synopsis.asp?TitleID=90221
The film is available on dvd. Here is a link to an on-line source.
http://www.playcentric.com/dvd/product.asp?product_id=D_R_065935220596&refererid=SEO
I don’t know if they have dvd’s coded for your region, though. They do sell to Australia so it is likely. Verify that before ordering it if it interests you.
My heart goes out to you and your child; I wish I could do more to help. Courage, my friend. Do not expect the fight to be easy, for it will not be. But remember the words of Aragorn as he stood before the Black Gate of Mordor and spoke to his small, terrified band of men:
T.H. Richards
Québec, Canada
Comment by T.H. Richards — Mon 23rd January 2006 @ 9:44 am
I hope that you have now got your baby back. Our system in new zealand really needs to look at what they are doing to our families. the ggod parents get picked on while the bad parents get overlooked. IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
it looks like you have some great assistance from people on here. good luck
Comment by kamiera — Wed 25th January 2006 @ 10:13 pm
We are having a similar problem at the moment. We as a family are very close. Would love to hear from you.
Comment by Rose — Wed 25th January 2006 @ 11:49 pm
I meant to add, that I am the grandmother. Our baby is now 10 weeks old. My daugher has gone through absolute hell. The drs refuse to say its an accidental injury. But the fight is not over yet. Not until the fat lady sings. YOU keep your chin up.
Comment by Rose — Thu 26th January 2006 @ 12:07 am
I am the daughter of Rose, we have just been through the same thing, (baby broke femur) we were lucky enough to be beleived by Cyfs and the Police, my arguement is with the Otherpedics teams in hospitals. They are the ones that make the initial decision of the way a fracture occurs. This is where the problems start as everyone believes them. This is where we need to start the ball rolling. I too have thought about contacting the media and my local MP. Have just got baby home yesterday and feeling emotionally drained. I will offer whatever support you need and if your wife wants to contact me just to talk about the experience and have a good cry I’m here my number is 09 4144323 at home through the day
Comment by Nicki — Thu 26th January 2006 @ 9:37 am
Cypfs - Ha! My best friend could have been awarded 1st place for being the worlds most devoted and loving mum to her adopted daughter…having lost one baby at nearly two years old (born with severe mental retardation) - she loved him to bits, he died in her arms …she couldnt have children due to early menopause……worked her rear end off to save enough money to adopt a daughter from Romania….unfortunately chose baby that no-one else wanted…this child had many problems, having been born to alcoholic mother and abandoned….my friend loved her to bits too…due to spinal deformation little girl used to trip over her own feet and resulted in alot of bruising about the legs…I used to help her look after daughter…the patience was incredible….to cut a long story short Cypfs were called to visit on false allegation…social workers said she needed help with her, told her they would give her ‘respite care’ of 28days….friend turned up to pick up daughter…foster mother told her she wasnt getting her back…long long ugly horrific saga…we had daughter previously to specialists to find out her problems, incl…visual squint, abnormal growth and spinal malformation, alcoholism traits -ADHD, and attachment disorder as well as other things…Cypfs insulted our findings….8 months of hell…found best friend dead from overdose and suicide note blaming both social workers and failure to listen and give her daughter back…News coverage (indept Holmes interview) stopped hours before hand…media ban …I was threatened with jail if I went public…cypfs accused dad of sexual misconduct…more hell…then another 8 months, cleared, given adopted daughter back….
Comment by shona — Sat 28th January 2006 @ 8:19 pm
I just wanted to say, I’m really really surprized at how everyone is soo quick to judge the system and assume that the parents are innocent..
I don’t think the cyfs is accusing you of shaking baby syndrome.
it sounds more like “baby battering”
The fact of the matter is, children are very flexible lil beings.. it takes GREAT force to break a childs bone.
I’ve also noticed you’ve posted your story elsewhere.. except you’ve seemed to make a transcribing error.. Is it the Femur-which is the THIGH or is it the humerus?
Honestly, you have alot going against you. and I can clearly see why it would be difficult to fight your case.. Given your wifes history of depression, her poor health status, traumatic birth, having a preemie, all the hours in the nicu, you quitting your job, living on no money, then being on assistance.. The age difference.. and the fact that fractures in infants are not a simple jerk of their arms.. That would be more along the lines of pulling the arm out of the socket.. not breaking a bone.
Is it possible your wife had a seizure while alone and did not remember it? That is a possibility also.
If you or your wife did something to your son.. I can understand with everything going on why..
but I am really surprized how quick people are to give you so much support without even questioning the possibility….
People on death row go to the grave saying they didn’t do it.. Does that make them innocent?
Comment by Kimberly — Mon 6th March 2006 @ 4:22 pm
Kimberly
I should remind you that it is far better to go and meet the people before you judge them on a meassge board. I have tried to help only to be called a political activist by a CYFS manager at a meeting .I support this lovely couple and you bag them!!!!!!! Do not make assumptions lady before you have all the facts of case - yes CYFS have acted like hateful & unlawful scum that they are . What can’t you understand about that fact ??? Its assumptions like yours that cause so much damage to so many good parents in NZ .
Comment by Peter Burns — Mon 6th March 2006 @ 5:47 pm
Apparently YOU can’t understand the facts.
The fact of the matter is BONES do not BREAK unless GREAT FORCE is APPLIED.
A child would fall head first. chances are the only thing catchable would be a leg. not an arm. An arm would be yanked out of its shoulder socket.. not broken.. and the knee fx? or is it a thigh fracture? If its the femur you have tons more explaining to do because that is one of the hardest bones in your body.
I’m not saying the parents are guilty.. and I’m not saying the system is perfect and wonderful. I’m not “bagging” the parents.
I’m just simply stating I’m very shocked at how people here are just automatically assuming the system is just HORRIBLE and theres no possibility of harm caused to the child.
Comment by Kimberly — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 2:17 pm
I think the police would be in a better position to judge this rather than YOU . FACT - they investigated and said no criminality.Fact - The SYSTEM is very sick , horrible ,corrupt evil and criminal .Only a fool would say otherwise - how many other factual cases do you want ???
Comment by Peter Burns — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 2:26 pm
Kimberley,
Firstly I would take a course in Anatomy, the femur is not the hip as you stated. It is in fact the upper leg bone, thats the bone from the knee to the hip joint.
Secondly you are totally uninformed as to our plight. He did not fall headfirst to the floor, he slipped from my arms and was falling sideways, when I grabbed his arm. A second opinion says the arm fracture could have been by the sudden grab by an adult hand. The physio also reports possible nerve damage to the shoulder caused by a sudden pull.
Your comments about us having battered baby are both untrue and extremely distastful. If he had been battered to the extent you say, then he would have had massive deep tissue trauma and bruising, none of which were evident in his examination.
So please think hard before putting posts of this nature without knowing us or our case.
Thanks Brykari.
Comment by Bryan McNabb — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 2:43 pm
An anatomy lession? I never said the HIP. Perhaps you need your reading glasses adjusted. I know what a femur is. As I said, its your thigh bone and happens to be the one of the hardest bones in the body.
For your premature tiny little infant to “kick” so hard that would cause you to drop him, sir, there is no such thing as falling sideways. We do have a thing called gravity.. and its no scientific mystery that heavier objects fall faster, which would be the head.
I never accused you of battering your child. I was simply saying.. I don’t believe cyfs is accusing you and your wife of shaking baby, rather battered baby.
And again, sir, you are incorrect.. You do not have to have deep tissue trama to have battered baby.. If you would do a quick search engine search with the term “battered baby” you would be able to see that for yourself, and all that it entails.. Along with bucket-handle fractures.
Your rebuttle spoke of the arm fracture.. you left out the “knee” or “femur” fracture (as I pointed out, you seem to have a transcribing error-one statement is knee fx, the other statement is femur fx)
Comment by Kimberly — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Kimberely,
Thanks for your comments but have not the time or the desire to argue the toss with someone who seems to know more about our case than we do.
Our prem baby was 5 months old when the accident occured, had developed a vigourous kick, as Plunket will tell you, weighed 5.6kg and did not fall far enough for gravity to change his course. The sudden impact of my grab, and jerk upwards to arrest his fall was enough to cause the damage. The femur is the strongest bone in the body, for an adult, but not for a baby with metabolis bone disease.
Visit http://www.panic.org,nz if you want our history.
Thanks Brykari.
Comment by Bryan McNabb — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 4:03 pm
Some people need to get a life. I’m very angry at you Kimberley, as if you have children you will know that all sorts of out of the ordinary falls can happen. We have just survived 3 weeks in starship with our 8 weeks old baby who had a broken femur caused by a dog jumping up on her has she was being fed. The othorpedics team there decided that this is a highly unlikely situation and didn’t cause the break, therefore they put it down to child abuse (just to be on the safe side for them) little do they know that this causes the family so my heartache and distress. In our case we didn’t get out baby taken off us and the police went as far as to say that they felt “an injustice had been done here” to us by the medical team at starship hospital. My point is that accidents do happen and should be treated as such (once the background investigations have been done). Unfortunately there are some nasty people out there who do these horrible things to their kids but its not all of us and I think that we should be distinguished and set aside from the others. My heart still goes out to you Brian as I know how it feels to not be believed. We are in the process of making a formal complaint with the hospital to try and get her file changed from a non-accidental injury to an accidental injury. I don’t know if we will suceed but an injustice has been done here and I will fight tooth and nail to get this changed. I don’t want to change the system but I do want to change our own personal report.
Infact Kimberley, sounds like you would make an awesome othopedic specialist. You certainly have the right mentality for it!!!
Comment by Nicki — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 4:43 pm
WELL SAID NICKI
Comment by Rosemary — Tue 7th March 2006 @ 6:54 pm
Really Brian? How many broken bones has your wife sustained through out the course of her life? Its interesting through.. If your wife truly did have brittle bone disease, I can’t figure out why it seems like you are just grasping for straws with that now…
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 4:08 am
Got nothing better to do at 4.00am than post nasty messages Kimberley? Think you might need some help.
Comment by Nicki — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 8:24 am
Just because YOUR clock says 4am doesn’t mean thats what mine says…It is the WORLD WIDE web ya know….
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 8:32 am
So where are you in the world then kimberley?
Comment by Nicki — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 9:37 am
It does not matter.. This isn’t about me. This is about this case.
Bryan, you are almost 60.. What health problems do you suffer from?
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 10:51 am
Leave this innocent man and his lovely wife alone ? You are very sick get help !!!!! Its obvious to even a blind man you have a hidden agenda !!!!You can’t lie very well do you work for the feminazi army????
Comment by Peter Burns — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 11:25 am
A hidden agenda.. and do I work for the feminazi army?
Defensive much? It’s interesting though, I’ve never accused anyone of anything here, Yet all I can get back is insults..
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 1:00 pm
Kimberly, you began your comments by stating:
Why should you be so surprised? One of the foundations of civilized society is that everyone is entitled to be considered innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Last time I checked, it was the same in the USA as it is here.
Do you actually know anything about how CYFs operate here in NZ? Perhaps you live in a community where social service agencies have not yet been captured by ideological feminists, and believe that social workers still genuinely care about children.
That type of person doesn’t last long working for New Zealand’s CYFs, let me assure you.
To those of you who have complained that Kimberly is just being “nasty”, I don’t really agree, although I do wonder at her motives in posting here.
On balance, I think that exposure to the thought processes and arguments of people who think differently from us is usually valuable, if hard to stomach at times.
Comment by JohnP — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 1:10 pm
She sounds like a California Girl to me, but that’s somewhat besides the point. She has obviously got an axe to grind, not much medical knowledge of any sort, and it is a safe bet that if the shoe were on the other foot–like if she had the child welfare people on her case–she would be screaming for support like a stuck pig.
What she fails to understand is that while child welfare agencies worldwide have as their prime mission the protection of children against the vanishingly-small percentage of evil or sick parents who actually exist, the reality of the professional social workers these agencies employ is that they wield such incredibly unrestrained power that the best of them get scared by the authority they must exercise on a daily basis (knowing they could be wrong on each case they handle) and so bail out of the system. This leaves the worst of them still working there, riding a huge, ego-feeding power trip.
That is why agencies like that are dangerous. Because human beings are not saints.
We should always remember what the philosopher said:
If having the power to take someone’s child from them isn’t absolute power, then I don’t know quite what is….
Comment by T.H. Richards — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 1:23 pm
I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to be “nasty”. I was just giving a different perspective besides a “Rosey candy coated” version…
I’m not sure about the “ideological feminist” part.. Most places in the world are run by male domination.. So I’m not sure what that has to do with feminists.
Yes I understand innocent until proven guilty. I was just pointing out parts that were not in your favor..
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 1:31 pm
I do have to giggle about the comments of no medical knowledge. I guess being accused of child abuse automatically grants you a PhD?
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 1:33 pm
As it happens, I am a professional rescue worker with over 15 years of experience in dealing with trauma cases, and were it worth the effort–with your attitude, it obviously is not–I could critique your 3rd-grade level amanesis of this case in terms which would educate you as to how little you know.
But, as I indicated, the problem lies not with your lack of knowledge itself (ignorance, I believe, is a protected right under the U.S. Constitution’s Bill of Rights–it falls under the ‘Pursuit of Happiness’ clause on the theory that ‘Ignorance is Bliss’), but with your typically-American belief that you have a perfect right to spout off on subjects about which you know little or nothing.
If you can shed that belief, then you will be ready to understand why people who don’t watch Oprah don’t to listen to you. In the meantime, I don’t intend to waste any more of my time answering your snotty remarks. Save them for someone who enjoys flame wars. I do not.
Comment by T.H. Richards — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 2:02 pm
Hi Everyone, lets not loose prospective of what all this is about, its about a little baby boy that got terribly hurt in his home enviroment living with his parents, that in itself say to me as this baby’s mum that it is wrong. I have never posted on here before but i feel it getting out of hand, yes i may have health problems but that doesnt make me a bad mum and and doesnt stop me from loving my little baby and yes my husband may be 57 but that doesnt make him a bad dad either, we all have to take a minute and just relax and cool down and and collect our thought. We all want the same here a safe enviroment for our children, and i think what is important is that me and my husband is working very hard to make it safe for our wee man. And im proud of us for doing just that, and just for the record i dont suffer depression anymore i did two years ago when i moved from south africa to new new zealand because i missed my family. Thanks for taking the time to read my post. May peace be with each of us today.
Comment by Karien — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 2:07 pm
Ok. So now the Worldwide web starts with the Kiwis and ends in America?
Once again, this is how you respond when people do not share your pov.
This truly speaks volumns!!!
Comment by Kimberly — Wed 8th March 2006 @ 2:44 pm
Karien–
It’s been a few months now since Brikari’s original post. Can you give us an update on the situation? Where is Alex right now? Has he been returned to you?
Comment by T.H. Richards — Thu 9th March 2006 @ 1:03 pm
I was just browsing and saw this…
is there any update? how are you folks doing?
Comment by Jaqui — Tue 21st March 2006 @ 6:51 am
Well just to give you all an update, Alex is still in foster care and very happy although he is been diagnosed with asthma and bronchitis lately, other than that he is doing good and is a very smiling baby. We had a judicial conferance a few weeks ago where its been decided that Bryan and me should finish our first part of the parenting course (which is another 4 weeks) and then Alex and I can go into a daycare situation where i can care for him during the day a few days a week, and after two months of that Alex and i can move into parenting supportive accomodation to undergo an assessment. So at the moment we are just doing what CYFS is asking of us and working really hard on making our home safe for the return of Alex which we believe will happen. Thank you for your interest and all the support you all have been giving us.
Comment by Karien — Tue 21st March 2006 @ 12:39 pm
Thats fabulous! I know it doesn’t seem like it now but it seems like you folks are on the right track and there will one day be an end to your “hell”
Comment by Jaqui — Thu 23rd March 2006 @ 6:07 am
While I know injury on children should be checked
any there are genuin cases of child abuse,your case seems straight ford.You guys have been through the ringer,my heart goes out to you .The system needs a total overhaul.Havent cyfs learnt wwhat effect they have on innocent people.What about children they place in caregivers care to find them far worst of ,infact what about those who have substained far worst injuries ,than accidental broken arm.my heart goes out to you and your wife.you wonder if cfys is out to keep mental health going ,we can only take so much ,let them wear our shoes.
Comment by terri — Tue 2nd May 2006 @ 4:02 pm
Thanks Terri for your support. I think we are gaining a little ground with CYFS slowly, we will know when stage 2 of our parent works course finishes in 9 weeks time. Interestingly we sent a copy of hix xrays for a second opinion at other hospitals. This means 4 experienced pediatric radiologists have viewed these, 2 say the appearences in his knee xrays MAY be a fracture, while 2 others say it is undecideable. So where from here no one knows?
Comment by Bryan — Tue 2nd May 2006 @ 4:58 pm
Hey folks. Any new updates? (only positive ones I hope)
Comment by Janie — Fri 7th July 2006 @ 4:54 am
hi, have you got your boy back yet, my husband and i have just won an 8 month fight in court against cyfs. it was from the complaint of one doctor. he was taken off us at 2 months and got handed back on friday at 10 months. i complety understand what you both are going through. its hard to fight the system. we would love to hear how its going.
Comment by michelle — Tue 8th August 2006 @ 10:57 am
Hi everyone,
Yes good news at last. We have had our baby home with us now for 10 days and today we signed the discharge of custody from CYFS to our own care. It has been nearly 9 months since he was removed from us, and we have missed a chunk of his life. We have however been fortunate in having a loving couple of caregivers, who went way over their boundries to help us maintain contact and bondship with baby. During the recent transition they gave us all the help and support they could give. We thank them so much for their kindness, love and understanding. We also had an excellent CYF social worker who guided us through the web of darkness and uncertaincy. And a circle of family and friends who supported us and believed in us. Encouraged us on when we were down and were always their for us. And of course we had our baby Alex, who was the main focus and who kept us on with our daily struggle. Thanks also to all on this MB who gave advise and supported us too, we will never forget you. Special thanks to dad4justice for all your help and advice.
We have now reached the light at the end of the tunnel, and once again a family, we can only go forward and leave the past behind us.
Thank to one and all, and to those still stuggling have faith, keep calm and focussed, it will happen for you too.
Best regards,
Bryan Karien & Alex.
Comment by Brykari — Thu 10th August 2006 @ 8:10 pm
Horrible - The only word to describe it is horrible.
Comment by Shannon — Mon 9th October 2006 @ 3:40 pm
hey ive just read your heartwrenching story and i think the cyfs system sucks they should be looking after children with severe abuse background not a child that was injured by accident.the cyfs systen sucks and i believe they have no right taking your son my best wishes to you and your wife and i hope little alex makes it hojme for xmas…p.s.. that nurse should be fired for indecent abuse becoz if you can get interogated for accidently droping alex she should get fired for what shes done…….all the best xoxoxo whai
Comment by whai — Mon 30th October 2006 @ 10:15 am
P.S IF YOU EVER NEED TO TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THIS, YOU ARE MORE THEN WELCOME TO E-AMIL ME, BUT MY ADVICE TO YOU WOULD BE GET A LAWYER AND DO PARENT AND ANGER MANAGMENT COURSES, DONT WAIT FOR CYFS TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO, DO IT YOURSELF
Comment by Sunshine — Wed 24th January 2007 @ 8:30 am
Congrats to you guys for finally getting the outcome you worked toward. Yes, I agree some of these people and those in the medical profession can abuse their powers either through malicious or well-meaning intent or incompetency and arrogance. However, I would like to throw in a few comments from my perspective. Doesn’t our country have one of the highest legitimate child abuse rates and child fatalities resulting from abuse by family members? Agencies like this and the measures they take would surely become redundant if there weren’t a need for them to exist? I have personal experience with those power-weilding “professionals” such as immigration officers, police officers, doctors - the sort of people you don’t wish to encounter when they’re having a “bad hair” day, and suffered the consequences. I have also had the good fortune to experience those “professionals” who do indeed demonstrate high degrees of professionalism.
For all the great parents I’ve observed and know of, over the years, there are just as many who aren’t great parents, a small portion of whom, with guidance become better parents, but the larger portion have honestly been pond-scum who should need licences to give birth. My first-hand experiences with these people have been in a volunteer capacity with A&D agency and in many Maori community.
You are all probably aware that my ethnic group is over-represented in abuse statistics in our country, which is nothing to be proud of. While CYFS may not be doing the best job possible, I have to ask where our children would be if they didn’t exist? Especially in the current climate of abuse that pervades our culture and country.
Also, with regard to the medical professions opinion, I have learned over the years to question and vigorously challenge if necessary, any opinion especially “expert opinion” that may seem ambiguous or confusing. This is of course, after researching and learning as much about the medical condition as possible. Empower yourself! Don’t forget, medical professionals make mistakes all the time - not just us mere mortals! They are just as human as we are, but with a few more letters after their name. Stand up for your rights in a dignified manner and don’t assume someone knows more than you or can tell you what to do just because they’re wearing a white coat, blue uniform, or whatever.
Lastly, to the writers of all those defensive,unproductive comments, a different opinion or perspective from your own should be welcomed. It is a great tool for your own learnings, if you choose it to be. Especially those you disagree with. They have been the catalyst for some of my greatest learnings in life and I am truly grateful to those “enemies” who rubbed me up the wrong way! Any forum that encourages debate on any topic is a great thing, in more ways than one.
Peace be with you all
Comment by L.Rawhiti — Wed 24th January 2007 @ 3:56 pm
as a caregiver i can say there are 2 sides to a story and it is proven how much a wee babys arm can be bent before broken i have seen children come and go for many reasons i get on well with all the parents i see both sides i can also say cyfs have come a long way from years ago and continue to get better i have heard to many times that cyfs have taken children for no reason i no for a fact they will not take them unless good reasons arise and they need hard proof to intervene some of you people need to no all the facts before you criticise i would guess most of you would complain if a child was misbehaving in a store and also complain if something was done about it open your eyes instead of walking around with your eyes shut children need to be protected and lies don’t help when the proof is there in fact cyfs will help familys without removing children where the children are not in danger i guess a lot of you just want something or someone to winge about no tell me what would happen to these neglected beaten and abused children if it wasn’t for cyfs i have seen it all and i can say yes some social workers can be a bit over the top but you have the right to go higher but i also no they have to be strong someone needs to stand up for the poor wee ones that are being treated unfairly by the way if a child runs away from a caregiver to go home it is usually because they are not used to normality in there lives and see the negative as a way of life usually resulting in a circle effect with abuse etc going on in generations there is a lot more to this story so i would advise you all not to take one story as how it is.
Comment by casey — Wed 24th January 2007 @ 8:47 pm
\John Tamihere once said eliminate CYPS in which I agree there just the middle person who looks for the cheapest network that will take there kids. They don’t work very much with the families that is left to the communtiy and other agencies that they refer the child to. There reports on the children they work with seem to be very slim so you never get to know the real issue of the kids that they give you to work with. And when you do try to contact them they don’t seem to contact you back. I’ve been to a many of meeting with youth aide, ses, blah blah blah, and even though this may be one of cyps kids we are discussing cyps do not turn up so nothing gets done and the case continues to cylce in disaster. As you can tell I don’t like cpys very much.
However in this case I don’t believe cyps is at fault as the complaint has come from the hospital to cyps and the Police at this point they have no choice but to follow through. Even if the Social Worker thinks the parents are innocent it is the hospital that has pushed cyps and police to do job.
However the qustion I ask your lawyer to look into is can they explain now from pargraph 9 why there is no damage now., when the wording on the first report is APPEARANCE the second report wording is PROBABLE which does not mean definatley. Yet they can tell you definetley that you must have shaken your child to create this probale damage
I don’t know if you were guilty or not but this has happened to myself also and I assume other.
Also remember the hopspitals have been hammered recentley for not voicing concern about Kahu twin and it is us the public who judge when a hospitla does not report damage concerns which means they have to ask questions and make judgements. Unfortunetley you may be a parent who may be judged the wrong way
Comment by Michael — Wed 24th January 2007 @ 10:58 pm
Just to put matters straight in this case for once and all, as I helped re-unite baby Alex back with lovely, unfairly treated distraught parents. They heard about my work through my ranting’s on the Internet. Cyfs laughed at me calling me a volatile political activist but thankfully I am thick skinned and I charge into a battle with only one result predetermined in my head.Nasty Cyfs workers from Christchurch and Nelson should be in prison for their malfeasance. To cut a long story short the Cyfs staff involved in this case acted like malicious, nasty aliens from planet hate. As for the ordeal that police detectives put them through, well done you gutless mongrels.
At the same time I helped re-unite a beautiful pregnant mother get her three sons back from the clutches of the department of child snatchers- Cyfs. I got so worked up in that case that the system returned the boys back to her very quickly and both Cyfs social workers and detectives apologised for the mistake.
My tactics work – I detest injustice –I don’t tell lies - I got several cases going now and I am appalled at the dysfunctional Cyfs that is under the hateful clutches of the heartless, cold blooded feminazi policy writers.
Comment by dad4justice — Thu 25th January 2007 @ 7:45 am
Awesome comments, awesome debate on such an emotive subject. Dad4justice, you sound like I used to, fighting other peoples battles, and what I learned from these were tough lessons. Can I respectfully suggest that you maybe find a way to emotionally detach yourself from each situation? I found I was far more effective at achieving the desired outcome for all when I learned to do this - I believe this is true advocacy - and it won’t mean you care less if you can learn this strategy. You obviously are blessed with a strong social conscience and I applaud your willingness to assist your human brothers and sisters. The stress of fighting battles WITH ANYONE eats away at your insides, and definitely affects your health and mental well-being. Try and take time to attend to your mental and physical wellness to re-energize yourself - it takes a lot of energy to fight battles! You will be more effective - I promise. But most of all, be kind to yourself. I wish you well in all your endeavours and life lessons, Dad4justice.
Peace be with you
Comment by L.Rawhiti — Thu 25th January 2007 @ 10:38 am
It’s hard to be a parent everyone knows that. We are faced with many situations that require tact and diplomacy. I myself have been confronted by cyfps following a domestic violence situation and they are not the easiest people to deal with. I felt like a criminal as soon as they turned up on my doorstep! My feeling was that they use their status as “CYPFS” to make people feel intimidated and insecure. I knew i had done nothing wrong but i still felt answerable.
Comment by rachs — Thu 25th January 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Sorry dads4justice I was caght up in the story last night that I accidentlety speed read the comments and missed the thankyou letter from the parents return of Alex. I been through the same thing and did not know there was help although the judge seem to sense that things were not all straight forward. So dads4justice I am really impressed with what you did for the family. However you may not be liked by cyfs because really you did there job you strenghened and empowered a family.
Comment by michael — Fri 26th January 2007 @ 12:31 am
Dear Michael,
I am a man of integrity and a warrior of the truth and fortunately enough to have been blessed with a incredibly thick skin that shields me when I enter a cop shop, appear before a corrupt judge or enter a vile stench ridden cyfs office.
I don’t care what the feminist agenda government authorities think of me and my very un politically correct attitude makes my job easy.
Helping others helps ease the heartbreak of only having seen my daughters 11 times in 6 years due to the countless professional spineless parasitic scum that made themselves rich on false allegations of sexual abuse and domestic violence. The frustration I feel being on the unfair receiving end of a huge miscarriage of justice is immense, however often I am rewarded when the kids that you helped re-unite with their falsely accused parents say thank you d4j
I think my greatest reward was rescuing six young kids from the clutches of evil cyfs care –givers. One of the young girls was raped by a cyfs approved caregiver and watching that filthy scum standing in dock and being sentenced to jail was inspiring.
I guess this is proof that the cyfswatch website is correct when they state cyfs encourage “ familially raped” eh – the proof is in the disgusting pudding but what would the Minister Ruth Ruth can’t tell the truth Dykeson worry -!!!
I am glad I can balance my frustration with the system by making them accountable.
I will never given into liars .
Comment by dad4justice — Fri 26th January 2007 @ 8:14 am
I cannot believe what I have been reading. Brykari, I hope you have your son back. Your wife and self do not or should not be treated like this. As for Kimberley you are so ignorant. A child can and does fall sideways. And as Brykari said, he rolled sideways. I too have had trouble with CYFS by getting a lawyer involved things got heated but it was all good.
Comment by Pam — Fri 26th January 2007 @ 9:52 am
I am saddened that caregivers have chosen to fight back at the parents who are fighting for their own children’s rights to be with parents.
This move to show the corruptness in CYFS and their social workers as well as the big players has nothing to do with caregivers. In fact as a parent who has had their children in CYFS, I have a very good relationship with the most wonderful family who were the caregivers of my sons for most of their time in CYFS. They are family to us now and we are family to them. I am always thanking them for caring so much. But this relationship only came about because I was able to get support from my community who stepped up knowing I was a good mother and we organised the placement.
CYFS never stated I was a bad mother but stated the opposite. Our case was all about CYFS workers and our personal disagreements. We clash. Have you not noticed this. CYFS is not about chidren it is about winners and losers.
If CYFS had of had their way my boys would have been seperated and sent to homes below our (my husband’s and my) level. Infact my eldest son has been extremely damaged and will never be OK from the moves in the end. Cyfs social workers don’t care about the children’s welfare over and beyond being feed, clothed and having a roof over their head and going to school. What you don’t realise is that when our children get into trouble while in CYFS care while at school, they get treated differently as if they are damaged. Most of our children are not damaged. Every caregiver has loved my family, loved all the values and decency in my children. That made us special and very lucky. Unfortunately we don’t all get so lucky to have good caregivers. We don’t all get so lucky that a home will treat our children equal to their own children. We are not wanting to tell you good caregivers we don’t like you as we are so thankful to you. Please understand what is going on here.
For us parents CYFS treats us like crap. You don’t see what they do. You only get told their side. But you are also an enemy yet you don’t know. They are telling caregivers now to adopt the children if the cases are as long as 4 years. If you won’t adopt the children they are threatening to take them off you. You are not allowed to like us anymore. You will also have a record against you from CYFS if you don’t report a cut knee or a scratch on the back that you may have made because you grabbed the child in fear of them going on the road. Yes, you are also in danger if someone reports on you.
Please be open minded on this. You are the good men and women. There are too many children slipping through the system. And the price is far too great to be ignored. For every policy CYFS’s big players make in the safety for children, the more innocent children and families get targeted. We can’t allow this anymore.
Comment by julie — Fri 26th January 2007 @ 12:17 pm
Hi There,
I just wanted to make a few comments. I am an ex-CYFS social worker. I rest easy at night because I know that my actions as a social worker were in the best interest of the children I worked with AND I was able to put myself in the position of the parents and families involved. I knew that in GENERAL, parents want to love and protect their children and that is the best basis for positive outcomes, not an environment of blame and fear. I tried my very best to work in ways that were safe, but also creative in terms of trying to prevent knee-jerk reactions such as complete removal of a child (unless ABSOLUTELY necessary and very well-grounded).
I am apalled at the way Brian, Karien and Alex have been treated. Why was the baby uplifted when other solutions such as supervision by a family member would have been adequate?! This seems like one of those knee-jerk reactions that I used to fight to avoid. It sounds like their case is a politically grounded reaction to NZ’s recent child abuse history, rather than being based on the merits of the case.
I am not perfect, only human. But I believe in making change from the inside. Being a C & P social worker is hard, in fact it’s bloody awful at times. However, a service of SOME kind is necessary. But the parents who do truly bad things to their kids are the minority. I have found that most parents need support and assistance during difficult times not a tonne of recrimination and suspicion.
I left CYFS a few years ago when I became fed up with the departmental control over social workers responses to cases. Due to their cookie-cutter approach to complex and unique families, it became too difficult to practice ethically and fairly. I am now a trained clinical psychologist. I can make fair and ethical decisions about how to work with families that are not dictated by a department but according to what is best for the families concerned.
And finally, I proudly call myself a feminist as to me that means improving equality. But I have a cool and rational head… I am not known for groundless rantings or rabid, ignorant, hateful verbiage. Please do not judge all feminists by the likes of one or two contributors to this site (Kimberly) and please don’t judge all social workers by the likes of a number of bad eggs. Yes, I have worked with a few incompentent, unethical social workers without a clue but also a few absolute gems whom I would trust with my own kids.
Keep fighting the good fight and know that others do so from within the system, as best we can.
Comment by Mary — Thu 22nd February 2007 @ 11:18 am
hi i am really sorry to hear your storie i cried i have 4 children who cyps took of me an my husband 4 months ago because my husband was accused of hitting my son dont give up and donot admitt to something you did not do it is sad and depressing and you just wanna give up cause you no cyfs is hard to fight but if you really didnt do it dont give up cyfs made me seperate from my husband they told me i would get my kids back and i havent i am finding ways now that will hopefully help me and i will post them on here all the best i feel for you i really do
Comment by lisha — Tue 20th March 2007 @ 7:24 pm
I would like to bring a different view into this. in my place of work i see many children that have been subjected to horrid abuse (i am not a cyfs worker but i work closely with them), many are left with unreversible damage, shaken babies that are left with cerebral palsy, ongoing seizures, visual problems, speech and language problems. some will never walk or talk again, some die. Family violence and child abuse in New Zealand has growen into a huge issue, too many children are lost due to having been subjected to terrible abuse.
I do sympathise with families wrongly accused like some of you that have posted comments. But please do consider that CYFS workers are not out to get you, they are working hard to protect our precious children they are standing behind the children that have no one else fighting for them and i am sure they have prevented many children from being sbjected to a lifetime of abuse. I think it is unfair for people to say CYFS workers dont care about the children, or thatit is about winning and not for caring for the children for them. I do ask the people harbouring these views to consider the following:
CYFS workers dont get paid extremely much so im sure most or all of them are in the job because they are are hoping to shape a better future for abused children… and not for the money.
How the hell does a CYFS worker “win” if they remove a child from a family? they are very aware of the repercussions of their actions, they know the consequences if they get it wrong. They are constantly subjected to abuse from parents that feel that they have been done wrong by the system. they deal with heart breaking abuse stories every day which takes a huge emotional toll on themselves.
But people do it because someone needs to protect children. And if it isnt CYFS who else will?
many people need to put themselves into the shoes of a CYFS worker first before making some of the bold statements made.
I feel sorry for CYFS workers that try to do a job to their best ability and constantly encounter such negative attitudes.
And yes they may get it wrong but more often children are removed from homes that endanger their wellbeing and even their lives. i will always be grateful for CYFS workers that dedicate themelves to protecting those children.
i did not mean to offend anyone but i do feel that some people are too quick to jump at CYFS throat after hearing a heart breaking story about children being seperated from their families. How about taking a look at the families and why they were seperated from their children, maybe it is even for the good of the child. does anyone ever consider that? how many people look at facts before jumping down CYFS throats?
Comment by Nadia — Sat 28th April 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Nadia let me tell you this, you live in a dream world. CYFFS are evil through and through. They Lie, cheat and steal children from innocent families. Court appointed shinks and psychologists are paid off by this Nazi Gestapo to railroad thier innocent victims, gunned down by the familiy court in cold blood before they have the right to prove they are really not nearly as stupid as CYFFS make them out to be. I bet you would have a different opnion if you had suffered this total injustice full of lies, slander, and cut-throat vindictivness. I would like to see all CYFFS workers rounded up, put into a pit and shot for their evil crimes towards the family units of New Zealand. Their care and protection orders are nothing but a cruel insult. How would you like to be called every dirty, vile name under the sun, then finished off by a modern day gestapo without just cause or reason. CYFFS are cramed full of spite, lies and emotional blackmail. I will never forgive the LIES of CYFFS social workers and all who conspire to do their dirty work. Writing what you wrote on this forum really pisses me off. CYFFS can rot in hell as far as I”m concerned.
Comment by Michelle — Sun 29th April 2007 @ 12:05 pm
I guess according to the law of averages, there must be some good cyfs social workers….but i’ve never met any, nor met anyone who has!
My baby was taken when he was 5 weeks old, and if i’d listened to our social worker i wouldn’t have him back.
He is a clever alert active baby, who had reached all his 6wk milestones between birth & 4weeks of age.
He was in cyfs care for two weeks and did not achieve anything new except learning how to scream!Obviously the caregiver was not very attentive to his needs and did not spend time interacting with him.
I got him back at 7 weeks & now at 8 weeks he is reaching 12week milestones!!!!!
In need of care & protection? yeah right.
I have fgc tomorrow & court the next day, so fingers crossed their custody order, and care & protection order get removed, and I can raise my baby in peace,providing the only care & protection my little man has ever needed!
I’ll keep you informed.
Comment by Sarah — Mon 7th May 2007 @ 7:55 pm
Hi. i have just found your story. I came on the net to find it because i am going thru the exact same thing at the moment. My 11 month old twin daughters were taken off me after i took one of them to the doctor because she had a sore arm. It turned out to be fractured and because the doctor said it was non-accidental CYFS came in straight away and took the girls from me. Now that they have them they are stalling in every way possible in trying to get the girls bakc into our whanau. The only good thing i have to say about CYFS is that they have brought the family together but the are putting us through hell. All the best in your fight against this giant. i hope by now that you have already won. I will keep you posted as to how things go for me and my family
Comment by Tamara — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 2:32 pm
CYFS should be held as accounatble as the police.They should follow the same procedures as the police do.As far as the law and CYFS is concerned, human rights have gone to the dogs. The original intention of CYFS was no done a good intention, but all law enforcers should be held accountable. CYFs have the same power as did the GESTAPO. They can just walk in and intimidate without independent support for “the accused”
(in this case you are always guilty before proven innocent)and until the public are looked after better on this issue , I will not cooperate or support them.I certainly will not ever again think of reporting any suspicious cases. CYFS, You have lost the support of a law abiding citizen.
Where are the politicians? Why are none of them fighting on behalf of there voters?
Comment by Lady Grey — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Oops! a printing error in my last posting. In the third sentance I meant to say”…The original introduction of CYFS was a good idea, but all law enforcers should be held accountable”
Comment by Lady Greay — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 1:44 pm
what makes sad is when a child is hurt in cyfs care ,its alawys an accident,when it happens at home its suddenly not an accident. as for a&e ,I know a man who went into A&E with a very severe reaction to medication,he was totally shocked and hurt as he was asked did he use hookers and treated for thrush . he went back again because his body became covered in massive blisters ,they wanted to put him in hospital, but the horrible comment previously said ,he left .He was so ill ,he lost his fingernails toenails and layers of skin. A doctor had wrote a note saying it was a reaction to his medication and it was urgent.Doctors do get it wrong ,can be judgemental. I don,t really believe they can tell with broken arms or anything like that ,I feel that look at people and make their own judgements . I belive children who are being abused aren,t usually taken to hospital, their limbs heal unnoticed. I feel CYFs need some healthy competition to keep them on their toes
Comment by ladyjane — Wed 29th August 2007 @ 9:51 am
Murray - why not add to the site - building a “your story” section with open post on quantitative one off posting. This would build information and collate it into a place where it was presentable or referancable?
Too much valuable information on this site will be wasted for its un organised dispersment throughout the many thousands of pages.
Comment by Benjamin Easton — Wed 29th August 2007 @ 2:01 pm
Hi my wife and I are just starting proceedings with cyfs. Our son broke his leg in his cot right femur and because we didn’t see it they are saying it is an unexplained injury hence they have taken our boy but put him with my (jeremy) mum and dad for the intrem. Whats makes it worse 2 things
1. Our second child will be born in 4 weeks and they can take custody of that child as well.
2. the report is not from the bone doc it is from the pediatrician.
Can anyone give us some pointers on what to do. Our lawyer says to follow and do what they say but out problem with that is that when the family group conference assembles we have 2 options
1. Admit there is a problem but probably have a faster outcome to get our son and maybe daughter back or
2. Go to court and battle it out.
Both of which could be bad, because in number 1 we are admitting we did it and number 2 is a very lengthy process.
Thank you Jeremy and Angela
Comment by Jeremy — Sun 2nd September 2007 @ 7:59 am
I feel for you Jeremy , however it must be said , sack your lawyer as they are all parasitic leaches that do nothing but suck blood money from delaying an outcome .They all say they act in the child’s best interests , however I have criminal evidence against several lawyers to say different . Lawyers hate clossure in the Family Court , look at my case, into the seventh year and still no closer to solving it than when it started!! You must fight these bastards without a lawyer !! These scum of earth cyfs retards and devious lawyers make good judges !!!
Comment by dad4justice — Sun 2nd September 2007 @ 8:18 am
Hi there Jeremy and Angela,
My daugther had her femur broken a couple of years ago now, she was only 8 weeks old, by a dog beleive it or not!!! My advise to you is to not admit something that you haven’t done. We had a great outcome, we worked with our Cyfs lady and she was amazing to us. I was very bitter towards the doctors at the hospital as they said a dog couldn’t cause this sort of injury and that was clearly what had happened. Our saving grace was the police. They interviewed us and said that they beleived what we were saying (after all they are the professionals at getting the truth out) they asked as all sorts of questions and we answered them honestly and to the best of our knowledge. We had an older child that they could have taken off us but they didn’t. They will be gathering information on you both from everywhere, so just be strong and keep your chin up. The awful thing is that there as some buggers out there that do this sort of thing to their babies so everyone falls into the same net. Have a happy fathers day, thinking of you both.
Comment by Nicki — Sun 2nd September 2007 @ 8:33 am
Thank you.
The police have cleared us, nurses and docs have said what a load of bull*****.
The starship people have also been offered counselling for what has happened.
Thank you again and we are trying to stay strong.
Comment by Jeremy — Sun 2nd September 2007 @ 8:43 am
Would be interesting to compare notes. Had some pretty awful dealings with some of the doc’s up there. In hindsight now I understand why they were so awful as they see so many abused kids.
Comment by Nicki — Sun 2nd September 2007 @ 8:48 am
Nicki , I agree Doctors do see so many abused kids , however the Family court and cyfs are so dysfunctional they are dangerous to all children . Its a sad situation. The Government agencies claiming to be acting in the child’s best interests are guilty of criminal negligence as many vulnerable children are falling between the huge gaps in the sick system . For example , CYFS and Ron Burrows ? RIP Coral .
Comment by dad4justice — Sun 2nd September 2007 @ 10:07 am
Jeremy,
you have a question to ask of yourselves here, that if not asked and answered honestly and with commitment you are to be left in the place those experienced describe to you without the words enough effectively to tell you the travesty at your door.
The question to ask is: what do I want more?
This conundrum is the effective power of the state to maintain its abuses over the general citizenship. If you fight they are bigger than you and if you submit you agree to be someone or something that you, or both of you are not.
From my experience, where this is the language of bureaucracy vs the citizenship, the safest place for everyone is for you to remain polite. As soon as you stretch this point and become angry directly at those who would engage with you, you tend to lose, where your anger is a direct registry for the department and their minions (the domestic violence industry) to focus on you and not how best to fix the problem. If you get too close into the areas where they (those active and feeding from the industry) cannot answer your direct questions as to why this is just, (and if you are ANGRY it is a certainty) theri best and most necessary defence is to blame your attitude. Withthis comes conjecture. Everyone begins to argue and the circlular arguments for their nature in power define at their every end that you (and ultimately your son and daughter) will lose. I don’t really consider time is a healer. It just becomes easier to bare the wound.
For my expereinces I haven’t answered your question - yet - I have hopefully given you an instrument from what others are saying. That instrument: is to calm down - always.
Once you are clam, things take a different perspective, especially if you are both strong in how you treat the infection of a departmental investigation. If there are areas in your past that are under scrutiny, don’t be afraid of them, because they are the truth. The difference for you is that you folk know the “truth” and the department has to prove that you are not telling it because in teh best interests of the children it is their task to expose you: if you are so telling lies. That is what the industry looks like. “If there are lies we will find them”. So calm down.
If there is violence that isn’t so easy to do. Yet in the end, it will be your strength. If you (or others) are involved in practices that require the severe discipline of your children, then you have to realise “first” - that the department and the public are not inclined to tolerate such violence. This assumption gives (the industry) the department all of the power, and if alikened to a game of cards - all of the cards.
Yet that is not quite the truth.
The Family Group Conference is an instiution that has been established to mitigate its way through the problems - looking deeper to find a social balance that is more consistent to the Act, which itself is defined to protect the interests of the child. This being the case (and presently I would emphasise only the theory) the FGC becomes an instrument that you can use best to effect any compromise that could be gained, between the brutality of the industry and the necessity for the soul(s). So stay calm.
What I have said above, is that CYFS are a group of brutal folk who for whatever reason make their incomes out of assuming that they can calculate the best interests of the children. That; they have to be brutal because that is what in some cases is required. That; even if there has been violence against your child the method best you have to employ is the FGC where if “you are calm” compromises can be worked out from extremely difficult situations. That; if you don’t stay calm and you get ANGRY, you will lose, as will your son and daughter and that this extraordinary pain is timeless disguised as mitigating.
What Pete: AKA Dad’s for Justice: has advised you is much the same, although Pete has championed like no other in NZ history the ability to stay outright angry! And good on him! But to be like Pete you have got to be like Pete, and that energy is hard to maintain - it needs a special kind of person with a special kind of love to stay that strong and that resiliant.
However, this is not to say that everything is bleak. You still: as natural parents have a trumping card. The card hasn’t been played yet in any law cases with which I am familiar - but the department’s legal team are now aware that they must give it some public credibility and scrutiny.
Under s.15 of the Care of Children Act 2004 you folk (I presume you are biological parents) are more than natural guardians. Guardianship is modelled on your parental rights. In order for the government to disaffect you from your relationship with your son and daughter, if they so should, it would be because they have given themselves the legal authority so to do - yet - under that section, they still have to recognise that you have natural parental rights.
There are cases now before CYFS where they have extended their power to override their responsibilities to maintain association. I would allege that the department, as nor does its evolution in social manipulating agenda, practice, have that great a history protecting associations between sons and daughters and mothers and fathers.
This is not to say that the department may not remove your children from you. It means that they have more of a duty to recognise your rights of association than they have done so in the past. And more specifically: they MUST recognise this natural value (in a western - Westiminster based - civilisation) to be extended to their alleged client the child (I say alleged because at present violence is their client).
So this is an instrument for your benefit when you want to stay calm. The department must protect the association between both parents and their sons and daughters when with an intention to become, or for having become involved in your personal circumstances.
Your argument to be presented is that that association is already strong and for the state to interfere with an intention to remove, then it is they who are compromising the best interests of the child. You need to prove as best you are able that to remove such an association without adequately providing for the building of that association (as under s.7 of the Act) then it will be your son and daughter, ultimately who will suffer the damage of that intervention.
I am sorry to read about your circumstances and wish you the very best in the toughest kinds of struggle that the ordinary folk of New Zealand are made to undergo for the oppression of the capitalist expansion.
Respectfully,
Benjamin Easton
(of a) fathers’ coalition.
Comment by Benjamin Easton — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 11:20 am
Benjamin,
I think you would lose many people by the way you go on about things.
Jeremy,
Heaps of parents go through what you are going through. The best thing to do is make things change as quick as possible. Don’t sign any papers and don’t let them go through a whole list of things they want you to do. You are innocent and stick to the story. Don’t phone them when you are upset and don’t phone them when you are angry. Talk rational all the time. They are trained to pick up on anything you say or how you say it. You are in a system now.
You are innocent and that is what you must act like. You will have your child back in no time if you play the game well.
Just ask what they want and get your child back. Most children are returned quickly.
Comment by julie — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Well sorry to say Julie that things just don’t work out quite that way when you are up against the Gestapo. To Cyfs its just a game, they lie constantly, emotionally blackmail, fraud docos etc, if only it was as simple as you make out. Your statement is just a fantasy. It’s quite clar to me that you just don’t know what you are talking about. I have known of scores of people that do everything the corrupt department says and still no luck with getting their beloved children back. Just you remember, lots of children are taken by the department through vindictive lies and hidden adgendas by so-called parties that have no respect whatsoever for life and no morals either. CYFS flourish under false information then move in for th kill, and destroy innocent families time after time. The truth is never listened to by Cyffs, who have no life skills and don’t even know how to communicate. Most children are NOT returned quickly……. You are really trying to fool yourself on that statement, that’s a load of rubbish. It does not matter what you look like, Cyfs take anything said and then they twist it to suite their own evil adgenda. They even falsify court docos with their dirty sick lies. As far as I am concerend CYFFS can burn in hell, for their rotten stinking attacks on the family units of New Zealand. CYfs are heartless, lying child-stealing abusing murderers. Best interests of the child are paramount they say, this is bullshit.
Comment by Michelle Stewart — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 3:14 pm
Fortunately Michelle,
for the very excellent efforts of CYFSWATCH and the fathers’ coalition, the pressure has been put on the administrations to check themselves.
If you want to help to apply with a real ability to apply pressure (and we should hope) to bring about change, focus your letters of injustice to Mel Smith. He is the Ombudsman who is scrutinising the review of the justice system. He has some experience of the CYFS portfolio. A link between injustice and CYFS inaction or responsibility to s.7 of the Act will be a paramount argument to effect the kinds of changes us of the wounded families all need (and should so demand) to have brought about.
CYFS as is the whole system is under review. That review will only accomodate the information before it. If there isn’t a challenge before the review, or its officers do not comprehend the full weight of the pain and suffering that has been inflicted by substandard policies of social intervention as acted out by too inexperienced and undertrained as underpaid officers, then a lightweight paper will be the end that everyone (for one argument) deserves.
Comment by Benjamin Easton — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Gosh, well, I asked for the reply I got from you, Michelle.
It is not that I don’t know what you are going through.
It is not that I haven’t been there and done that and it is not that I have contact with social workers and regional manager of our area and it is not that I don’t know that CYFS already knew they are having problems and were looking for solutions and had big meetings with overseas people prior to cyfswatch coming into play. And it is not that I don’t know how the hospital system works.
I don’t know what to say to you to make your own situation easier although I know what will help but then I know very few people will do what I did. Yet I was lucky to have caregivers that refused to take legal custody and cyfs social workers themselves continued to band together and push Government to allow our case to be of special privilege.
I don’t know what to say to you because I can’t make a wrong a right when you are in the system. By that I mean I can’t help anyone COPE and I can’t beat the red tape just through telling people to get a lawyer and hope for a nice judge on a good day or to get a few of the most qualified counsellors in NZ to back you up.
But here is a tip. Move to Auckland. they have over 4,000 children waiting for homes and they know most homes they have available will raise your kids worse than you will. they are trying hard to get rid of cases.
Comment by julie — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Thank you all for your comments. Went and saw our lawyer today and he said that at the family group conference he said that if we say no their is no problem and all the family back you then cyfs go and decide if they want to go to court or retract the case altogether. The other option is as stated before we admit there is a problem. We have decided to wait it out till the family group conference and see what the family says but I can tell you now that everyone is going to say that there isn’t a problem.
I think that as parents we need to be strong and do something about this system. It stinks!!!! What they do is not the issue, the issue is the bullshit they spit to get the children and the innocent parents are the ones that get hurt. For instance my wife and I are getting counseling for what they are putting us through.
Nikki — It would be great to compare notes. If you want to ring my phone is 09 8133700 and my wife is home tomorrow, further than that meeting to discuss is up to you, but something needs to be done.
Cheers Jeremy and Angela
Comment by Jeremy — Tue 4th September 2007 @ 8:55 pm
Hi, everyone,
Firstly to the couple that started this, I hope you have your child back.
I am a grandmother who has gone through hell and back.
Firstly, our fist grandchild was taken off my daughter, admitly she needed to be. This child died at the age of 6 of natural causes. But after my daughter found she had lost this one again, she went depressed, even though she now had another child who cyfs looked at and let go. She spoke to the plunket helpline I think it was, and they informed the police and cyfs, that she was suicidal. Cyfs, decided to get involved and asked for respite care for 28 days, so she signed himover after this was done, she wanted to get him back this is where they started not to give him back. Threats have been made, and my daughter gave in. Through a fgc we putthings in place for her to do, and she has done most of them except 2 of which 1 she is in at present. She has had a nother child to another partner who she is stable with and he is a good dad and whould be great with her other boy. She has now got tosufferfighting to get this boy back fromt he caregiver, who has had him for 15mths while my daughter has ploughed her way though it all. The access she has had to endure being called by her name not allowed to be called mummy,the caregiverhas taken this role. When challenged we were told that this is not allowed. The access that was aggreed to was never put into place. You see the caregiver has her own agenda, and that is to get this boy into her permanent care, as he is the half brother of the first child who died. I believe she has done this all along as 2 weeks after she was quoted to say “how is …..(the boy)” I question this and she would ring me probing me for information. SHe has manuipulated this, and her lies are believed. My daughter has come along way and due to this she is now victimised and has to fight permanent placement which cyfs has suggested. As for counsell for the child, she is biased. She has dealt with all children and even been on friendly terms with caregiver. Is there any way to get her removed as the counsell for the child. If this family has to go through this again, I believe it will hurt us all very much. I have raised 5 children on my own but i am not consider for placement of my grandson how is that. My family is christians, except for a few members, and the mother of the child is christian and so is her now partner. God is a restorer of families not a destroyer of them. If anyone has any good helpful tips as I am fighting this with every thing I have, as to have access after the caregiver does get placement thats if she does, my daughter will have to arrange it with her supervising, and I spoke up and said that will not work. I explained that my daughter will have to go with someone as the caregiver could start up lying about her again andgo for the next child. I want my daughter protected from that.
Comment by del — Wed 23rd January 2008 @ 6:40 pm
My Advice to the grand mother would be to ask for another social worker, tell them you dont believe this person is working in the best intrests of the child, one question i would ask is when is the next meeting? the date she has to do all these requirements by? maybe she should also think about doing something extra to show cyfs that she wants her child back…also why isnt the child with you? the CORRECT thing for them to do is look at the mother, then father, then grandparents, then unties and uncles and THEN and ONLY THEN they should look for someone outside the family circle,have you seen a lawyer yet? Cyfs dont tell you to get a lawyer in fact, they say not too, so that they can do things behind your back, please let me know how your daughter gets on email sunshine_summer_beach@hotmail.com
Comment by Bernie — Tue 29th January 2008 @ 11:10 am
Wake up and smell the coffee Bernie. Dont you know that all CYFFS social workers are soul destroying, mean, cold hearted lying Nazis from hell. Lawyers too are corrupt and working for the system. The only thing a Lawyers going to do is take your money and shit all over you in court because they are married to the system and passing the buck. CYFFS are evil power crazed mongrels from hell. The Gestapo will never learn to tell the truth unless there is a change in ledgerslation and a NEW and more honest GOVERNMENT. We need to fight back by all banding together and having a great big protest ralling gather the numbers, like the one we saw over the North Shore sea-bed. CYFFS are imoral, vindictive satanic demons with one thing on their mind. To murder and break up as many families as they can through their cruel cold hearted lies because its big business for them. They are making a lot of money out of stealing children away from innocent parents
http://www.youbethejudge.org
Check out this site it may be of help and assistance to many families who are suffering and has a lot of interesting information from it. The site comes from THAMES.
Comment by Michelle Stewart — Tue 29th January 2008 @ 2:05 pm
thanks for the link, well i only speak from what i know of and what my friends and other family members have been through, a lawyer helped me and helped them, and you can get legal aid, but then again i heard on the news its more of a “we pay for you and you pay us back” thing now, can’t even bare thinking about what the government is going to do next!
Comment by Bernie — Tue 29th January 2008 @ 2:20 pm
Michelle,
“…all CYFS social workers are are soul destroying, mean, cold hearted lying Nazis from hell…CYFFS are imoral, vindictive satanic demons with one thing on their mind.”
Sorry to say this but…
Although we all agree on this site that things need to change with CYFS, your rantings are hateful, offensive, totally unhelpful and indicate that your view of reality may be somewhat skewed. Get some help.
Comment by Mary — Tue 29th January 2008 @ 4:51 pm
hmm, good point, i agree
Comment by Bernie — Tue 29th January 2008 @ 5:17 pm
Well I have the right to hate this cruel vindictive moder day gestapo after all of the lies that they have told. If you’de been through what I’de been through with this evil vile rotten stinking lying department you may have another point of view, and I’m not ranting deary, I’m telling the truth. Oh so lets all give CYFFS a big fat pat of the back and tell them how marvellous they are!!!!!!!
If you think they’re so great why don’t you join a CYFFS support site. I don’t need no do-gooders telling me to get some help when I know damm well from my personal experience just how corrupt and low these Nazi dog moles from CYFFS really are. I’m not out of touch with reality, I know damm well whats going on at there with these corrupt CYFFS pigs, and I shall never rest in peace until these evil devils are all brought to justice. DOES THE TRUTH HURT, YES IT DOES, and I’m sure not the only one out there that feels the way I do because I have spoken to too many of us who have been hurt and violated by these CYFFS NAZIS, through their cruel and callious unfounded lies. Mary I suggest you learn about the truth and don’t knock someone that you don’t know who has been through hell and back because of CYFFS. I feel so sorry for you Mary!!!!! you are talking through a hole in your sweet little head!!!!!!
Comment by Michelle Stewart — Wed 30th January 2008 @ 4:02 pm
Michelle,
I was simply raising the point that your language is offensive and unhelpful. Yet, your responses just get worse… and personal. So, I don’t think I will lower myself to respond in a personal manner, except to say that you have no idea of my experience of CYFS or government agencies in general. So I laughed when I read your comment below:
“Mary I suggest you learn about the truth and don’t knock someone that you don’t know who has been through hell and back because of CYFFS”.
In addition, there are many families on this website who have been through hell through the actions of SOME social workers at CYFS. Yet they do not lower themselves to hateful language nor lose sight of perspective. To call ALL social workers, lawyers and psychiatrists evil Nazi’s is just plain delusional.
As for your comments:
“I feel so sorry for you Mary!!!!! you are talking through a hole in your sweet little head!!!!”
My God, the insults just get worse! Not only have your posts been offensive, they are also insulting to anyone who disagrees with, or questions your mode of protest. I thought this website was about healthy debate and finding practical, proactive strategies for dealing with CYFS (as opposed to a forum for the mad ranting of a few). Your response has just confirmed my belief that you need to get some help. And please don’t feel sorry for me- I am a happy person despite everything that I have been through.
So please lets get on with the real issues and steer clear of hateful, abusive language and focus on helpful support for Del and her family. By the way, Del… has there been any progress?
Comment by Mary — Thu 31st January 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Well mary you are allowed your opinion, and I’m allowed mine. I’m not disolutioned, and I’m sure not the only one out there that feels this way. Well you don’t sound very happy for me, I think you’re fooling youself and you refuse to know the truth about these lying Nazis and the whole corrupt money grubbing system. Maybe you’re out of touch with reality. CYFFS are the hateful ones and I am just expressing my anger and total discust at the evil crimes that they committ against humanity. Don’t waste your time trying to convince me that anyone tied up and paid off by the corrupt gestapo of cyffs is honest or committed to helping and guiding our families. I know full well that the whole lot of them are dirty low life Nazi liars. I have exhausted all avenues to come to this conclusion, and I have met many people who have been to hell and back with CYFFS. You are a do-gooder that seems to be on the side of the department. I have the right to hate and dispise the satanic forces that are hard at work in this department.
Comment by Michelle — Thu 31st January 2008 @ 12:40 pm
I agree that the system is screwed up and soo old fashioned, they do need to look into it.. though i have to admit if it was not for cyps I would not be here at this time with children and happy.
there were a few things they did do wrong..
i know lately.. within the last 10 years or so i wondered if they have gotton worse.. a couple of cyps workers, the power seems to go right over their heads.
we rang an mp to help us but they said ‘ we are anot allowed to help people with cyp cases.. though being national they are not really family orientated..
there is absolutely NO communication anywhere with them, I am a respite caregiver and we look after kids and never really know what day they are gettiong picked up n stuff.. no communication.. and when we talk to the boss hes like confused as we are.
good luck with ur case and i am sorry to hear.. as much as I would like to say u’ll have ur lil one back soon, i really do not know.. cos their 2 weeks usually turn to one month then its 6 months, then its.. the child is doing very well we would hate to interupt the routine, so its a year and then all of a sudden kids are free at 17 .. :/
as horible as it sounds, do not give up.. remember u have the obudsman.. andthe higher up bosses.
Comment by Magnolia — Mon 4th February 2008 @ 11:54 pm
Comment by Darryl Genet — Mon 11th February 2008 @ 5:48 pm
Kimberly, having meet Peter Burns (dad for justice)a number of times, and seen first hand the positive outcomes he has achieved, I can assure you that the world needs far more people like him,and far less people like you. CYFS can not even supply me with the information i have requested in the time frame they are legally obliged to do so within. if they cannot do this simple task how can any one expet them to make the right decisions in regards to acting in the (child’s welfare and best interests. I strongly urge anyone out there to be very wary of CYFS, the POLICE, COUNCIL FOR CHILD, and THE FAMILY COURTS. unless there is truth, there is no justice for the children, and there honest decent family’s. P.s Kimberly go and get some professional help, and leave us alone. PP.S I will be sacking my lawyer this week and perusing my case with the aid of Peter.
Comment by Darryl Genet — Mon 11th February 2008 @ 5:49 pm
My wife Darelle had a few children a while ago when living in New Plymouth, a woman who couldnt have children stole her daughter at 3mths of age, changed her name and would never let her see the child, now nearly 17yrs and still not allowed contact, in the meantime Darelle had her son, four years she fought for him as the woman who wanted him so bad rang cypfs using the fact Darelle had lost her daughter as a reason to take her son, this woman made so many allegations against Darelle but couldnt succeed in getting custody, then came up with sexual abuse when the child was 4yrs and neither him or police were allowed in the courtroom, and she won custody, Darelle was never to see her little boy again, anyway she then moved to Auckland to start fresh, i met her in September 2005, to me she was this poor young girl who has been to hell and back although we have been married two years now and have a beautiful big baby boy whom was taken 10 minutes after he was born, we have no idea where he is or who he is with and can see he is being neglected and abused, Darelle is livig on anti-depressants and sleeping pills, having nightmares, i am Iranian and my family back home i guess you could say are so frustrated as we dont steal children in Iran, when i try explaining this to cypfs they have me up on threatening charges, could we all get together and fight these baby snatchers, we are losing the plot, please someone help me, i want my 9mth son home with his parents and where he belongs
Comment by Hadi Akbari — Wed 12th March 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Hi guys, Sorry, I cant go to sleep knowing all you poor people have gone through what Darelle and i are going through, it has to stop, God gave us all children to love and cherish, not have them stolen by these creatures, we see our son once a week for two hours and yet we have the best bond anyone could ever imagine, you know i am seriously looking at going hunger strike outside parliament real soon, United Nations will get involved just like they did over those poor maoris having thier homes raided and guns held to those beautiful childrens heads who are now scarred for life, is that not child abuse! This government has a lot to answer for but at the same time the people in this country have let them get away with so much for so long and that is where i am different, i will f— them every way i can as i am a man
Comment by Hadi — Wed 12th March 2008 @ 9:43 pm
Thanks Hadi for your comments. I feel the same way. I am a mother who has been seriously f. over by CYFFS and the low life corrupt rigged system. CYFFS only like to express their side of the story which is lies, slander, lies, more slander and vindictive evilness though and through. Thanks also to Julie. I have never once ever thought of harming my children. The lies that CYFFS