MENZ ISSUES

MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

CYFS and our baby

Filed under: General — Brykari @ 3:59 pm Fri 16th December 2005

WE NEED HELP.

Let me introduce myself,
we have a 5 month old son called Alex. Alex was born in Chch Womens hospital in June of this year and was very premature coming 11 weeks early and weighing only 780g. My wife had a very troublesome pregnancy as she suffers from several health problems which made conceiving a baby almost impossible, so it was a miracle that she found she was pregnant on 24 Dec last year.

In March of this year her pregnancy became worse as her bad back was starting to give her trouble as was her diabetes. I at this stage gave up my work to be able to stay at home to care for her as she was mostly bed ridden and unable to do day to day chores in the running of the house. This put a strain on our financial state as we had to go onto a benefit to survive. It took WINZ a month to put a benefit in place and we struggled through the whole of March with no income.

On my birthday May 23, my wife took ill and was admitted to Chch Womens hospital, as her diabetes had worsened and she became insulin dependant. During this time for the safety of baby she decided herself to stop her epilepsy and anti depression medication as these drugs in her system would be harmful to the developing baby. My wife spent 4 agonising weeks completely on bed rest as she struggled with her own health and that of baby. The diabetes was contributing to another medical condition known as pre-eclampsia, this causes a decreased blood flow to the placenta and was dramatically slowing down the growth of baby.

The doctors were trying to keep baby going until he was strong enough to remove. She kept going for another week and on Jul 14 the decision was made to take baby. My wifes health was getting worse by the hour, her liver and kidneys were closing down, and we were in great danger of loosing them both. On June 15 at 11:30am she was taken to the theatre for an emergency cesarean and the baby was delivered at 11:55am.

He was so small and was only 780g and there was the possibility he would not survive as there were no respiratory effort and a very low heart beat. However day by day he grew more stronger as she recovered from her surgery.

Alex was transferred to NICU level 3 where he was ventilated and monitored very closely. My wife and I stayed by his incubator for 10+ hours per day every day. After a week she was allowed to come home, and we commenced daily commuting back and forth to the hospital, 4 times a day as she was home expressing milk for him. Alex spent two and a half months in NICU with a loving and devoted Mum spending hours by his cot reading and feeding her new son.

The day finally arrived when they said we could take him home. Great the best day of our life. He was discharged on oxygen, as being premature his lungs were still developing, and had a sleep monitor which alerts us to him having stopped breathing during the night. But it was great having him home, no more travelling.

Alex quickly settled to life at home and we were very proud parents, we sent lots of pictures to our families, mine in Nelson andmt wifes in South Africa, we loved to show him off! He had heaps of visitors, his friends from Neonatal Outreach, Plunket and CCS all call regularly to monitor his progress and they are all thrilled by the way, we as new parents are treating and nurturing our child. His Well Child Book is filled with glowing reports as to his progress.

Alex has grown from a 780g prem baby to what he is today, a 5.5kg smiley, bubbly and very friendly baby. We as parents have taken all care of our son, from his regular doctors checks to his 6 weekly immunisations and have never let him fall prey to the many bugs and viruses out in the open air. We have sacrificed our humble lifestyle to make sure he is safe and secure.

My wife even stopped expressing milk for Alex as her depression and epilepsy started to return and she needed to go back onto her medications. This was a huge wrench for her as she thought she would be classed as a bad mother for doing so. However on medical advice and on the opinions of our support teams, she restarted her treatments. This was after she had stored over 100, 120ml bottles of milk in our freezer! Alex has had a good start to life, a little shaky to begin, but with our love and care he is today a gorgeous and lively son.

NOW OUR PROBLEM

On Fri evening last at about 6pm, Alex had just finished his evening bath. I was carrying him from the bathroom to the bedroom for my wife to ready for bed. I had him in my arms and as I was about to settle him on the bed, he gave an enormous kick, this set him rolling inwards from my arms, and he started to fall to the floor. With my left hand I instinctively grabbed at whatever I could get to stop his fall. My hand closed around his upper right arm and I pulled him up onto the bed. Thank God I thought he didn’t hit the floor.

Alex was of course a bit startled, and gave a few cries, and at that point my wife came into the room and commenced to dress him for bed. I told him I had a close call, and she told me to be more careful. She swaddled him for the night in his wrap and put him to bed with his bottle. He was a little irritable, but we thought nothing of that as he normally is at bed time when he is tired. He had his bottle and went off to sleep. At around 1am he started to cry, its his early feed we thought, and gave him another bottle and I turned him to his right side.

That was when he really yelped! I turned him onto his back and he calmed, but was fairly grizzly for the rest of the night. At around 3am he was quite noisy and really crying hard. My wife took him from the bed, but when picking him up, he screamed. My wife unwrapped him from his blanket, and
his left arm started to wave around, but the right was just lying there, with no movement and no grasp in his hand.

We gave him 3ml of liquid Panadol and called A&E at Chch Hospital who told us to bring him in. We arrived at the hospital at 4am, he was examined, xrayed and told he had a fracture in his upper right arm.

At around 6am the doctor told us that because of the nature of the injury she would be calling in the Social worker and she would talk to us. She did come and talk and told us that CYFS would have to be notified. We had no objection to this at all as we had nothing to hide, and we had bought him in because of the accident. The doctor returned later to tell us the xray showed a clean break and was not consistent with an injury as i had described and further examinations of Alex would be required to see if he had other injuries. Once again we did not object as this was hospital protocol in these matters.

He had the next day a full skeletal xray, which we as his parents were excluded from. This upset my wife terribly as Alex is not used to be with strangers, especially as the examination was going to be a painful one. The results came back and too our shock and horror they told us he also had a small fracture to the left knee. This they told us would only be caused by vigourous shaking. we were stunned. Our little man has never been shaken, we would never harm our son, he is far too precious. They then told us they would do an MRI to check for damage to his brain. We got the results of that several agonising hours later. No damage, at least thats some consolation we thought, and we felt a little lighter.

Later that day to our horror we were taken from the hospital by the Police, seperately and in different cars. We were ( I will use the term interrogated) for 4 hours, my wife in her vunerable state by 2 male detectives and myself by 1 female detective. We gave them our statements of the event and were taken back to the hospital. The next day my wife was again taken to our home for them to take photos and she was again questioned at length. They keep on at her, trying to tell her to make me confess. But what am I supposed to confess too, it was an accident for Gods sake.

The Police are taking it out on my wife and her emotional state is now so low she is having major asthma attacks and has not slept since last Saturday. I now fear she is going to have a complete breakdown. We had an interview with CYFS yesterday and they had a meeting today with the hospital, Police and our support teams Plunket, CCS and Neonatal Outreach, who spoke in our defence. A call late this afternoon from CYFS told us that we are going to loose our child. We are both devastated, no one will believe us when we say what had happened.

The hospital wont give us the information we need, all they keep telling us is “that the break could only be caused by vigourous shaking”. We have no immediate family for support, its only the two of us against the system, which is proving too powerful for us. We are going to loose our son which my wife fought so bravely to bring into this world. We love him and want to bring him home where he is safe. He has already caught a virus in hospital and had a nurse drop a toy train on his head!

Please we are at our wits end, my wife and I are emotionally drained, we have even considered owning up to something we did not do to make this all go away. This is a nightmare, I wish I could wake in a cold sweat and find it is.

Please help us bring our baby home for Xmas.

Footnote:
CYFS took our child yesterday from the hospital to a home, while this matter is investigated. We as parents seem to have lost our rights, and I fear for my wife’s health wellbeing.

Thank you so much for your time in reading this.

168 Responses to “CYFS and our baby”

  1. Alastair says:

    Hi Brikari,
    First my depest sorrows. I am a senior field worker for PANIC (Parents against Negatie Intervention by CYF) Reading your post was like reading tomorrows news. There are so many thousand babies taken this way in NZ. If You haven’t got a Lawyer, get one NOW. Don’t meet with CYF alone, bring a trusted friend with you. Tape all meetings (CYF Don’t like that)Visit http://www.PANIC.org.nz and read the post about fighting for your child

    Alastair

  2. Peter Burns says:

    Dear Brikari
    I will help you and I am better than any parastic lawyer ( I do not charge any money ) -please do not feel uncomfortable as I can help as CYFS are a dysfunctional mess.I know the sick system only to well.
    I live in Christchurch -please ring me anytime -3473278 or cell 021456982 as I will make time to get this sorted and believe me I will . It is not fair mate but please trust me and ring me as I got CYFS on the back foot big time regarding several other tragic cases including my own major depressive episode.
    Peter Burns -dad4justice
    27 Elizabeth
    Rolleston
    Canterbury

  3. Morris Lindsay says:

    A gut wrenching story and I understand well what it is like to almost lose a child at birth and go thru the agony worrying for months whether the baby will survive.

    Alastair & Peter seem to be good allies for you and it always helps to talk to someone u can trust. It amazes me that CYFS can virtually snatch babies without considering the detrimental impact on the health of both child and parents and without clear evidence of child abuse.

    I would like you consider taking your case immediately to the media…i.e contact the various documentary teams. get this matter into the public eye and gain support from the general public. It’s only a suggestion but it might help get things moving. something like this could easily make the national news within days and snowball from there.

    Best Wishes

  4. paulc says:

    Hi Alex & Family,

    You poor people. I’m afraid your story is all too typical of the way CYFS and our other Social Control agencies operate. Someone gets a nasty idea into their head, persuades all the others that that is how it is, and then that’s all they can see from then on.

    It was the same with the Peter Ellis case, the Arthur Allen Thomas case, the Bain case, and many others. Blatant prejudice and predetermination, blinding people to the plain facts.

    Anyway, there is a very weak link in their argument, but I won’t broadcast it here. The way these people operate, if you point out the flaw in their argument, they just “fix it up” or make some other, harder to disprove allegation. There is nothing decent, honest or ethical about these people, who basically think that everyone else is a liar, and that they are the only people who “know the truth.” They have absolutely no qualms about making up massive lies to try to destroy the truth of what you say. They think they are doing “the right thing” by getting you put away, or removing your child into custody.

    Anyway, to counter this, I agree with the comments of the previous writer – go to the media ASAP. Also, I suggest you contact the Human Rights Commission about the breaches of your and your son’s basic Human Rights.

    Also, try to tape record every conversation you have with any of these people. Do it without informing them. You don’t need to advise them. It’s only unlawful to secretly record a 3rd party conversation – aka bugging. So long as you are a party to the conversation, it’s lawful. For phone calls you can buy an inexpensive adapter from Dick Smith Electronics.

    E-mail me off-line at alcandy[at]ihug[dot]co[dot]nz if you want my unwritten comments.

    Best of luck,

    Alan Candy
    Chairman
    Men’s Centre North Shore Inc.

  5. Ken Maclaren says:

    All the best. You have good advice above.
    Especially regarding having a third party present and taping all conversations.

  6. Al D Rado says:

    Note that tape recordings may not be admissable as evidence further down the track if they were covert – the other parties were not made aware that conversations were being recorded.

    I fully endorse recording – I have some phone contact with my child, and record these.
    It’s amazing the prompting from mother-dearest in the back ground that you overhear!

    (I also have some face to face contact, but covert recording is a bit more difficult when playing on a floor)

  7. Mark Shipman says:

    Hi Brykari,

    On your behalf, I sent a copy of your situation through to some of our MPs. A good response has been received from Judy Turner, Deputy Leader, United Future:

    “I have forwarded your e-mail to the Minister of CYFS Ruth Dyson requesting an investigation. I am leaving NZ for a month on Monday and so a direct referral is the best option at this time of the year. I certainly can understand your anxiety. Please keep me informed with your case.

    Judy Turner (Deputy Leader)
    UNITED FUTURE
    on behalf of Hon Peter Dunne”

    It will pay for you to make contact with Judy Turner directly so as the response by Ruth Dyson to her ministerial request may be managed properly. Judy’s contact details are:

    Ph: (04) 470 6992
    Email: judy.turner@parliament.govt.nz

    Stay strong!

  8. Michelle says:

    I think that its really terrible that CYFFS can get away with lying and building false cases of child abuse in the family court. Innocent parents along with their children are suffering as a result of this modern day gestapo who is day-to-day cheating ordinary Kiwis out of raising their children within their own culture. People are dying on waiting lists to have their surgeries while the government continue to destroy innocent lives with their Nazi Witch Hunt. It’s horrible to be written off by equally corrupt Shrinks & Psychologists that are paid off by CYFFS to tatally demoralize anyone who is unfortunate enough to be thrown into this corrupt system and without trial or hearing be torn away from their beloved family all due to false allegations and out-&-out lies told by these Social Workers’ & all who conspire with them to line their pockets full of money & tear children away from safe & loving homes where they are far more likely to be harmed if not killed by handing them over to strangers. I know from my own personal experience how CYFFS emotionally extort & blackmail biological family into handing their children over to the state. This is a wicked waste of tax-payers money. CYFFS care & protection orders are a total violation of innocent families struggling to obtain justice for their loved ones. The law is crazy!!! I think that you should committ the crime before you are charged with it. I refuse to bow down to a system of fear. I want the right to be able to raise my family in my own culture just as any other normal New Zealand family would like to. The same thing happened to the Aboriginal children who were uplifted in the 1960’s, accept the NZ government does it so much better because they know no race or creed. The Government should be made to hand back the stolen generation of Kiwi kids, and pay compensation for suffering caused by corrupt power craized Social Workers & all who help them to do such evil towards the family unit of NZ. It’s heartbreaking to be lied to as much as CYFFS have lied, deceived and emotionally bullied & blackmailed so many ordinary NZ families. Social Work was put on the planet to empower not disable. It’s high time CYFFS were exposed for all of the wicked and nasty things that they do to the family, they have messed up to many lives and its time for them to be brought to justice. CYFFS are of pure evil & doing the complete oppisite of their own laws. CYFFS are causing so many suicides amongst us by calliously breaking up the family unit. Michelle in the Waikato ph: (07) 849-0331 to see a big protest march take place here in NZ
    I would lov

  9. Brykari says:

    Just to update you all. We have copies of the hospital radiologists reports saying originaly “There are APPEARACES of a bucket handle fracture to rhe left distal femur”
    Second xray states “PROBABLE fracture of the left distal femur”
    The Pediatricians report to CYFS and the Police based on the FIRST report says he “HAS a bucket handle fracture to the left distal femur”.
    On the 15 Dec, two weeks after the accident he had his knee xrayed again….result….
    “NO bucket handle fracture or metaphysial fracture to the left distal femur IS IDENTIFIED”
    What do we do now!!!
    Cheers Bryan.

  10. Peter Burns says:

    Dear Bryan
    So just like me the police interviews and CYFS intervention was all unnessary based on assumptions with no legal standing !!?? Not to mention the trauma the idiotic system has caused your lovely wife . Dam the system . They got it wrong again and no one in government is accountable. What a disgrace our country is when cops and social workers can cause so much damage to the kiwi kids through hateful social policy enforced by uncaring corrupt state officials .
    I hope you can be ‘rest assured’ cops & CYFS will not ruin your next Christmas.We are going to force the much needed change so parents are given back their God given parental rights!!!!!!!! In solidarity -dad4justice

  11. T.H. Richards says:

    There has been increasing concern recently about the high incidence of spurious diagnoses of ‘shaken baby syndrome’. This problem is not unique to New Zealand; it is being reported worldwide, and is especially prevalent in developed countries. I know that is small comfort to you, but perhaps the experience of others who have fought and won this battle may help you.

    Recently, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation aired a segment on THE SUNDAY EDITION which dealt with this subject. If my memory is not too far off, it was broadcast on January 8th or 15th, and the producer was Barbara Wells, a well-known investigative reporter here in Canada. The program focused on the case of a woman in the U.K. who was accused of shaking her baby, and contained extensive interviews with her and many medical specialists. You may be able to hear this radio documentary on the web via the following link:

    http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/pastshows.html

    Another recent exposé of the horrors of the child welfare systems was the movie, “LES VOLEURS D’ENFANCE”, a major documentary produced here in Quebec by Paul Arcand. It is about the Quebec DPJ (Departement de Protection de la Jeunesse) and how instead of protecting children, it actually abuses them. This documentary received extremely wide theatrical distribution and critical acclaim throughout Canada, and was released in an English version as well (the English title is: “Thieves of Innocence”). It was released fairly recently, sometime in the past 6 months if I remember correctly. Here is a link to the producer’s webpage:

    http://www.allianceatlantisfilms.com/synopsis.asp?TitleID=90221

    The film is available on dvd. Here is a link to an on-line source.

    http://www.playcentric.com/dvd/product.asp?product_id=D_R_065935220596&refererid=SEO

    I don’t know if they have dvd’s coded for your region, though. They do sell to Australia so it is likely. Verify that before ordering it if it interests you.

    My heart goes out to you and your child; I wish I could do more to help. Courage, my friend. Do not expect the fight to be easy, for it will not be. But remember the words of Aragorn as he stood before the Black Gate of Mordor and spoke to his small, terrified band of men:

    “There may come a day when the courage of men fails…
    But it is not THIS day.”

    T.H. Richards
    Québec, Canada

  12. kamiera says:

    I hope that you have now got your baby back. Our system in new zealand really needs to look at what they are doing to our families. the ggod parents get picked on while the bad parents get overlooked. IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
    it looks like you have some great assistance from people on here. good luck

  13. Rose says:

    We are having a similar problem at the moment. We as a family are very close. Would love to hear from you.

  14. Rose says:

    I meant to add, that I am the grandmother. Our baby is now 10 weeks old. My daugher has gone through absolute hell. The drs refuse to say its an accidental injury. But the fight is not over yet. Not until the fat lady sings. YOU keep your chin up.

  15. Nicki says:

    I am the daughter of Rose, we have just been through the same thing, (baby broke femur) we were lucky enough to be beleived by Cyfs and the Police, my arguement is with the Otherpedics teams in hospitals. They are the ones that make the initial decision of the way a fracture occurs. This is where the problems start as everyone believes them. This is where we need to start the ball rolling. I too have thought about contacting the media and my local MP. Have just got baby home yesterday and feeling emotionally drained. I will offer whatever support you need and if your wife wants to contact me just to talk about the experience and have a good cry I’m here my number is 09 4144323 at home through the day

  16. shona says:

    Cypfs – Ha! My best friend could have been awarded 1st place for being the worlds most devoted and loving mum to her adopted daughter…having lost one baby at nearly two years old (born with severe mental retardation) – she loved him to bits, he died in her arms …she couldnt have children due to early menopause……worked her rear end off to save enough money to adopt a daughter from Romania….unfortunately chose baby that no-one else wanted…this child had many problems, having been born to alcoholic mother and abandoned….my friend loved her to bits too…due to spinal deformation little girl used to trip over her own feet and resulted in alot of bruising about the legs…I used to help her look after daughter…the patience was incredible….to cut a long story short Cypfs were called to visit on false allegation…social workers said she needed help with her, told her they would give her ‘respite care’ of 28days….friend turned up to pick up daughter…foster mother told her she wasnt getting her back…long long ugly horrific saga…we had daughter previously to specialists to find out her problems, incl…visual squint, abnormal growth and spinal malformation, alcoholism traits -ADHD, and attachment disorder as well as other things…Cypfs insulted our findings….8 months of hell…found best friend dead from overdose and suicide note blaming both social workers and failure to listen and give her daughter back…News coverage (indept Holmes interview) stopped hours before hand…media ban …I was threatened with jail if I went public…cypfs accused dad of sexual misconduct…more hell…then another 8 months, cleared, given adopted daughter back….

  17. Kimberly says:

    I just wanted to say, I’m really really surprized at how everyone is soo quick to judge the system and assume that the parents are innocent..
    I don’t think the cyfs is accusing you of shaking baby syndrome.
    it sounds more like “baby battering”
    The fact of the matter is, children are very flexible lil beings.. it takes GREAT force to break a childs bone.
    I’ve also noticed you’ve posted your story elsewhere.. except you’ve seemed to make a transcribing error.. Is it the Femur-which is the THIGH or is it the humerus?
    Honestly, you have alot going against you. and I can clearly see why it would be difficult to fight your case.. Given your wifes history of depression, her poor health status, traumatic birth, having a preemie, all the hours in the nicu, you quitting your job, living on no money, then being on assistance.. The age difference.. and the fact that fractures in infants are not a simple jerk of their arms.. That would be more along the lines of pulling the arm out of the socket.. not breaking a bone.
    Is it possible your wife had a seizure while alone and did not remember it? That is a possibility also.
    If you or your wife did something to your son.. I can understand with everything going on why..
    but I am really surprized how quick people are to give you so much support without even questioning the possibility….
    People on death row go to the grave saying they didn’t do it.. Does that make them innocent?

  18. Peter Burns says:

    Kimberly
    I should remind you that it is far better to go and meet the people before you judge them on a meassge board. I have tried to help only to be called a political activist by a CYFS manager at a meeting .I support this lovely couple and you bag them!!!!!!! Do not make assumptions lady before you have all the facts of case – yes CYFS have acted like hateful & unlawful scum that they are . What can’t you understand about that fact ??? Its assumptions like yours that cause so much damage to so many good parents in NZ .

  19. Kimberly says:

    Apparently YOU can’t understand the facts.
    The fact of the matter is BONES do not BREAK unless GREAT FORCE is APPLIED.
    A child would fall head first. chances are the only thing catchable would be a leg. not an arm. An arm would be yanked out of its shoulder socket.. not broken.. and the knee fx? or is it a thigh fracture? If its the femur you have tons more explaining to do because that is one of the hardest bones in your body.
    I’m not saying the parents are guilty.. and I’m not saying the system is perfect and wonderful. I’m not “bagging” the parents.
    I’m just simply stating I’m very shocked at how people here are just automatically assuming the system is just HORRIBLE and theres no possibility of harm caused to the child.

  20. Peter Burns says:

    I think the police would be in a better position to judge this rather than YOU . FACT – they investigated and said no criminality.Fact – The SYSTEM is very sick , horrible ,corrupt evil and criminal .Only a fool would say otherwise – how many other factual cases do you want ???

  21. Bryan McNabb says:

    Kimberley,

    Firstly I would take a course in Anatomy, the femur is not the hip as you stated. It is in fact the upper leg bone, thats the bone from the knee to the hip joint.

    Secondly you are totally uninformed as to our plight. He did not fall headfirst to the floor, he slipped from my arms and was falling sideways, when I grabbed his arm. A second opinion says the arm fracture could have been by the sudden grab by an adult hand. The physio also reports possible nerve damage to the shoulder caused by a sudden pull.

    Your comments about us having battered baby are both untrue and extremely distastful. If he had been battered to the extent you say, then he would have had massive deep tissue trauma and bruising, none of which were evident in his examination.

    So please think hard before putting posts of this nature without knowing us or our case.

    Thanks Brykari.

  22. Kimberly says:

    An anatomy lession? I never said the HIP. Perhaps you need your reading glasses adjusted. I know what a femur is. As I said, its your thigh bone and happens to be the one of the hardest bones in the body.
    For your premature tiny little infant to “kick” so hard that would cause you to drop him, sir, there is no such thing as falling sideways. We do have a thing called gravity.. and its no scientific mystery that heavier objects fall faster, which would be the head.
    I never accused you of battering your child. I was simply saying.. I don’t believe cyfs is accusing you and your wife of shaking baby, rather battered baby.
    And again, sir, you are incorrect.. You do not have to have deep tissue trama to have battered baby.. If you would do a quick search engine search with the term “battered baby” you would be able to see that for yourself, and all that it entails.. Along with bucket-handle fractures.
    Your rebuttle spoke of the arm fracture.. you left out the “knee” or “femur” fracture (as I pointed out, you seem to have a transcribing error-one statement is knee fx, the other statement is femur fx)

  23. Bryan McNabb says:

    Kimberely,

    Thanks for your comments but have not the time or the desire to argue the toss with someone who seems to know more about our case than we do.

    Our prem baby was 5 months old when the accident occured, had developed a vigourous kick, as Plunket will tell you, weighed 5.6kg and did not fall far enough for gravity to change his course. The sudden impact of my grab, and jerk upwards to arrest his fall was enough to cause the damage. The femur is the strongest bone in the body, for an adult, but not for a baby with metabolis bone disease.

    Visit http://www.panic.org,nz if you want our history.

    Thanks Brykari.

  24. Nicki says:

    Some people need to get a life. I’m very angry at you Kimberley, as if you have children you will know that all sorts of out of the ordinary falls can happen. We have just survived 3 weeks in starship with our 8 weeks old baby who had a broken femur caused by a dog jumping up on her has she was being fed. The othorpedics team there decided that this is a highly unlikely situation and didn’t cause the break, therefore they put it down to child abuse (just to be on the safe side for them) little do they know that this causes the family so my heartache and distress. In our case we didn’t get out baby taken off us and the police went as far as to say that they felt “an injustice had been done here” to us by the medical team at starship hospital. My point is that accidents do happen and should be treated as such (once the background investigations have been done). Unfortunately there are some nasty people out there who do these horrible things to their kids but its not all of us and I think that we should be distinguished and set aside from the others. My heart still goes out to you Brian as I know how it feels to not be believed. We are in the process of making a formal complaint with the hospital to try and get her file changed from a non-accidental injury to an accidental injury. I don’t know if we will suceed but an injustice has been done here and I will fight tooth and nail to get this changed. I don’t want to change the system but I do want to change our own personal report.
    Infact Kimberley, sounds like you would make an awesome othopedic specialist. You certainly have the right mentality for it!!!

  25. Rosemary says:

    WELL SAID NICKI

  26. Kimberly says:

    Really Brian? How many broken bones has your wife sustained through out the course of her life? Its interesting through.. If your wife truly did have brittle bone disease, I can’t figure out why it seems like you are just grasping for straws with that now…

  27. Nicki says:

    Got nothing better to do at 4.00am than post nasty messages Kimberley? Think you might need some help.

  28. Kimberly says:

    Just because YOUR clock says 4am doesn’t mean thats what mine says…It is the WORLD WIDE web ya know….

  29. Nicki says:

    So where are you in the world then kimberley?

  30. Kimberly says:

    It does not matter.. This isn’t about me. This is about this case.
    Bryan, you are almost 60.. What health problems do you suffer from?

  31. Peter Burns says:

    Leave this innocent man and his lovely wife alone ? You are very sick get help !!!!! Its obvious to even a blind man you have a hidden agenda !!!!You can’t lie very well do you work for the feminazi army????

  32. Kimberly says:

    A hidden agenda.. and do I work for the feminazi army?
    Defensive much? It’s interesting though, I’ve never accused anyone of anything here, Yet all I can get back is insults..

  33. JohnP says:

    Kimberly, you began your comments by stating:

    I’m really really surprized at how everyone is soo quick to judge the system and assume that the parents are innocent..

    Why should you be so surprised? One of the foundations of civilized society is that everyone is entitled to be considered innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Last time I checked, it was the same in the USA as it is here.

    Do you actually know anything about how CYFs operate here in NZ? Perhaps you live in a community where social service agencies have not yet been captured by ideological feminists, and believe that social workers still genuinely care about children.

    That type of person doesn’t last long working for New Zealand’s CYFs, let me assure you.

    To those of you who have complained that Kimberly is just being “nasty”, I don’t really agree, although I do wonder at her motives in posting here.

    On balance, I think that exposure to the thought processes and arguments of people who think differently from us is usually valuable, if hard to stomach at times.

  34. T.H. Richards says:

    She sounds like a California Girl to me, but that’s somewhat besides the point. She has obviously got an axe to grind, not much medical knowledge of any sort, and it is a safe bet that if the shoe were on the other foot–like if she had the child welfare people on her case–she would be screaming for support like a stuck pig.

    What she fails to understand is that while child welfare agencies worldwide have as their prime mission the protection of children against the vanishingly-small percentage of evil or sick parents who actually exist, the reality of the professional social workers these agencies employ is that they wield such incredibly unrestrained power that the best of them get scared by the authority they must exercise on a daily basis (knowing they could be wrong on each case they handle) and so bail out of the system. This leaves the worst of them still working there, riding a huge, ego-feeding power trip.

    That is why agencies like that are dangerous. Because human beings are not saints.

    We should always remember what the philosopher said:

    Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    If having the power to take someone’s child from them isn’t absolute power, then I don’t know quite what is….

  35. Kimberly says:

    I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to be “nasty”. I was just giving a different perspective besides a “Rosey candy coated” version…
    I’m not sure about the “ideological feminist” part.. Most places in the world are run by male domination.. So I’m not sure what that has to do with feminists.
    Yes I understand innocent until proven guilty. I was just pointing out parts that were not in your favor..

  36. Kimberly says:

    I do have to giggle about the comments of no medical knowledge. I guess being accused of child abuse automatically grants you a PhD?

  37. T.H. Richards says:

    As it happens, I am a professional rescue worker with over 15 years of experience in dealing with trauma cases, and were it worth the effort–with your attitude, it obviously is not–I could critique your 3rd-grade level amanesis of this case in terms which would educate you as to how little you know.

    But, as I indicated, the problem lies not with your lack of knowledge itself (ignorance, I believe, is a protected right under the U.S. Constitution’s Bill of Rights–it falls under the ‘Pursuit of Happiness’ clause on the theory that ‘Ignorance is Bliss’), but with your typically-American belief that you have a perfect right to spout off on subjects about which you know little or nothing.

    If you can shed that belief, then you will be ready to understand why people who don’t watch Oprah don’t to listen to you. In the meantime, I don’t intend to waste any more of my time answering your snotty remarks. Save them for someone who enjoys flame wars. I do not.

  38. Karien says:

    Hi Everyone, lets not loose prospective of what all this is about, its about a little baby boy that got terribly hurt in his home enviroment living with his parents, that in itself say to me as this baby’s mum that it is wrong. I have never posted on here before but i feel it getting out of hand, yes i may have health problems but that doesnt make me a bad mum and and doesnt stop me from loving my little baby and yes my husband may be 57 but that doesnt make him a bad dad either, we all have to take a minute and just relax and cool down and and collect our thought. We all want the same here a safe enviroment for our children, and i think what is important is that me and my husband is working very hard to make it safe for our wee man. And im proud of us for doing just that, and just for the record i dont suffer depression anymore i did two years ago when i moved from south africa to new new zealand because i missed my family. Thanks for taking the time to read my post. May peace be with each of us today.

  39. Kimberly says:

    Ok. So now the Worldwide web starts with the Kiwis and ends in America?
    Once again, this is how you respond when people do not share your pov.
    This truly speaks volumns!!!

  40. T.H. Richards says:

    Karien–
    It’s been a few months now since Brikari’s original post. Can you give us an update on the situation? Where is Alex right now? Has he been returned to you?

  41. Jaqui says:

    I was just browsing and saw this…
    is there any update? how are you folks doing?

  42. Karien says:

    Well just to give you all an update, Alex is still in foster care and very happy although he is been diagnosed with asthma and bronchitis lately, other than that he is doing good and is a very smiling baby. We had a judicial conferance a few weeks ago where its been decided that Bryan and me should finish our first part of the parenting course (which is another 4 weeks) and then Alex and I can go into a daycare situation where i can care for him during the day a few days a week, and after two months of that Alex and i can move into parenting supportive accomodation to undergo an assessment. So at the moment we are just doing what CYFS is asking of us and working really hard on making our home safe for the return of Alex which we believe will happen. Thank you for your interest and all the support you all have been giving us.

  43. Jaqui says:

    Thats fabulous! I know it doesn’t seem like it now but it seems like you folks are on the right track and there will one day be an end to your “hell”

  44. terri says:

    While I know injury on children should be checked
    any there are genuin cases of child abuse,your case seems straight ford.You guys have been through the ringer,my heart goes out to you .The system needs a total overhaul.Havent cyfs learnt wwhat effect they have on innocent people.What about children they place in caregivers care to find them far worst of ,infact what about those who have substained far worst injuries ,than accidental broken arm.my heart goes out to you and your wife.you wonder if cfys is out to keep mental health going ,we can only take so much ,let them wear our shoes.

  45. Bryan says:

    Thanks Terri for your support. I think we are gaining a little ground with CYFS slowly, we will know when stage 2 of our parent works course finishes in 9 weeks time. Interestingly we sent a copy of hix xrays for a second opinion at other hospitals. This means 4 experienced pediatric radiologists have viewed these, 2 say the appearences in his knee xrays MAY be a fracture, while 2 others say it is undecideable. So where from here no one knows?

  46. Janie says:

    Hey folks. Any new updates? (only positive ones I hope)

  47. michelle says:

    hi, have you got your boy back yet, my husband and i have just won an 8 month fight in court against cyfs. it was from the complaint of one doctor. he was taken off us at 2 months and got handed back on friday at 10 months. i complety understand what you both are going through. its hard to fight the system. we would love to hear how its going.

  48. Brykari says:

    Hi everyone,

    Yes good news at last. We have had our baby home with us now for 10 days and today we signed the discharge of custody from CYFS to our own care. It has been nearly 9 months since he was removed from us, and we have missed a chunk of his life. We have however been fortunate in having a loving couple of caregivers, who went way over their boundries to help us maintain contact and bondship with baby. During the recent transition they gave us all the help and support they could give. We thank them so much for their kindness, love and understanding. We also had an excellent CYF social worker who guided us through the web of darkness and uncertaincy. And a circle of family and friends who supported us and believed in us. Encouraged us on when we were down and were always their for us. And of course we had our baby Alex, who was the main focus and who kept us on with our daily struggle. Thanks also to all on this MB who gave advise and supported us too, we will never forget you. Special thanks to dad4justice for all your help and advice.

    We have now reached the light at the end of the tunnel, and once again a family, we can only go forward and leave the past behind us.

    Thank to one and all, and to those still stuggling have faith, keep calm and focussed, it will happen for you too.

    Best regards,
    Bryan Karien & Alex.

  49. Shannon says:

    Horrible – The only word to describe it is horrible.

  50. whai says:

    hey ive just read your heartwrenching story and i think the cyfs system sucks they should be looking after children with severe abuse background not a child that was injured by accident.the cyfs systen sucks and i believe they have no right taking your son my best wishes to you and your wife and i hope little alex makes it hojme for xmas…p.s.. that nurse should be fired for indecent abuse becoz if you can get interogated for accidently droping alex she should get fired for what shes done…….all the best xoxoxo whai

  51. Sunshine says:

    P.S IF YOU EVER NEED TO TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THIS, YOU ARE MORE THEN WELCOME TO E-AMIL ME, BUT MY ADVICE TO YOU WOULD BE GET A LAWYER AND DO PARENT AND ANGER MANAGMENT COURSES, DONT WAIT FOR CYFS TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO, DO IT YOURSELF

  52. L.Rawhiti says:

    Congrats to you guys for finally getting the outcome you worked toward. Yes, I agree some of these people and those in the medical profession can abuse their powers either through malicious or well-meaning intent or incompetency and arrogance. However, I would like to throw in a few comments from my perspective. Doesn’t our country have one of the highest legitimate child abuse rates and child fatalities resulting from abuse by family members? Agencies like this and the measures they take would surely become redundant if there weren’t a need for them to exist? I have personal experience with those power-weilding “professionals” such as immigration officers, police officers, doctors – the sort of people you don’t wish to encounter when they’re having a “bad hair” day, and suffered the consequences. I have also had the good fortune to experience those “professionals” who do indeed demonstrate high degrees of professionalism.

    For all the great parents I’ve observed and know of, over the years, there are just as many who aren’t great parents, a small portion of whom, with guidance become better parents, but the larger portion have honestly been pond-scum who should need licences to give birth. My first-hand experiences with these people have been in a volunteer capacity with A&D agency and in many Maori community.

    You are all probably aware that my ethnic group is over-represented in abuse statistics in our country, which is nothing to be proud of. While CYFS may not be doing the best job possible, I have to ask where our children would be if they didn’t exist? Especially in the current climate of abuse that pervades our culture and country.

    Also, with regard to the medical professions opinion, I have learned over the years to question and vigorously challenge if necessary, any opinion especially “expert opinion” that may seem ambiguous or confusing. This is of course, after researching and learning as much about the medical condition as possible. Empower yourself! Don’t forget, medical professionals make mistakes all the time – not just us mere mortals! They are just as human as we are, but with a few more letters after their name. Stand up for your rights in a dignified manner and don’t assume someone knows more than you or can tell you what to do just because they’re wearing a white coat, blue uniform, or whatever.

    Lastly, to the writers of all those defensive,unproductive comments, a different opinion or perspective from your own should be welcomed. It is a great tool for your own learnings, if you choose it to be. Especially those you disagree with. They have been the catalyst for some of my greatest learnings in life and I am truly grateful to those “enemies” who rubbed me up the wrong way! Any forum that encourages debate on any topic is a great thing, in more ways than one.

    Peace be with you all

  53. casey says:

    as a caregiver i can say there are 2 sides to a story and it is proven how much a wee babys arm can be bent before broken i have seen children come and go for many reasons i get on well with all the parents i see both sides i can also say cyfs have come a long way from years ago and continue to get better i have heard to many times that cyfs have taken children for no reason i no for a fact they will not take them unless good reasons arise and they need hard proof to intervene some of you people need to no all the facts before you criticise i would guess most of you would complain if a child was misbehaving in a store and also complain if something was done about it open your eyes instead of walking around with your eyes shut children need to be protected and lies don’t help when the proof is there in fact cyfs will help familys without removing children where the children are not in danger i guess a lot of you just want something or someone to winge about no tell me what would happen to these neglected beaten and abused children if it wasn’t for cyfs i have seen it all and i can say yes some social workers can be a bit over the top but you have the right to go higher but i also no they have to be strong someone needs to stand up for the poor wee ones that are being treated unfairly by the way if a child runs away from a caregiver to go home it is usually because they are not used to normality in there lives and see the negative as a way of life usually resulting in a circle effect with abuse etc going on in generations there is a lot more to this story so i would advise you all not to take one story as how it is.

  54. Michael says:

    \John Tamihere once said eliminate CYPS in which I agree there just the middle person who looks for the cheapest network that will take there kids. They don’t work very much with the families that is left to the communtiy and other agencies that they refer the child to. There reports on the children they work with seem to be very slim so you never get to know the real issue of the kids that they give you to work with. And when you do try to contact them they don’t seem to contact you back. I’ve been to a many of meeting with youth aide, ses, blah blah blah, and even though this may be one of cyps kids we are discussing cyps do not turn up so nothing gets done and the case continues to cylce in disaster. As you can tell I don’t like cpys very much.
    However in this case I don’t believe cyps is at fault as the complaint has come from the hospital to cyps and the Police at this point they have no choice but to follow through. Even if the Social Worker thinks the parents are innocent it is the hospital that has pushed cyps and police to do job.
    However the qustion I ask your lawyer to look into is can they explain now from pargraph 9 why there is no damage now., when the wording on the first report is APPEARANCE the second report wording is PROBABLE which does not mean definatley. Yet they can tell you definetley that you must have shaken your child to create this probale damage
    I don’t know if you were guilty or not but this has happened to myself also and I assume other.
    Also remember the hopspitals have been hammered recentley for not voicing concern about Kahu twin and it is us the public who judge when a hospitla does not report damage concerns which means they have to ask questions and make judgements. Unfortunetley you may be a parent who may be judged the wrong way

  55. dad4justice says:

    Just to put matters straight in this case for once and all, as I helped re-unite baby Alex back with lovely, unfairly treated distraught parents. They heard about my work through my ranting’s on the Internet. Cyfs laughed at me calling me a volatile political activist but thankfully I am thick skinned and I charge into a battle with only one result predetermined in my head.Nasty Cyfs workers from Christchurch and Nelson should be in prison for their malfeasance. To cut a long story short the Cyfs staff involved in this case acted like malicious, nasty aliens from planet hate. As for the ordeal that police detectives put them through, well done you gutless mongrels.

    At the same time I helped re-unite a beautiful pregnant mother get her three sons back from the clutches of the department of child snatchers- Cyfs. I got so worked up in that case that the system returned the boys back to her very quickly and both Cyfs social workers and detectives apologised for the mistake.

    My tactics work — I detest injustice —I don’t tell lies – I got several cases going now and I am appalled at the dysfunctional Cyfs that is under the hateful clutches of the heartless, cold blooded feminazi policy writers.

  56. L.Rawhiti says:

    Awesome comments, awesome debate on such an emotive subject. Dad4justice, you sound like I used to, fighting other peoples battles, and what I learned from these were tough lessons. Can I respectfully suggest that you maybe find a way to emotionally detach yourself from each situation? I found I was far more effective at achieving the desired outcome for all when I learned to do this – I believe this is true advocacy – and it won’t mean you care less if you can learn this strategy. You obviously are blessed with a strong social conscience and I applaud your willingness to assist your human brothers and sisters. The stress of fighting battles WITH ANYONE eats away at your insides, and definitely affects your health and mental well-being. Try and take time to attend to your mental and physical wellness to re-energize yourself – it takes a lot of energy to fight battles! You will be more effective – I promise. But most of all, be kind to yourself. I wish you well in all your endeavours and life lessons, Dad4justice.
    Peace be with you

  57. rachs says:

    It’s hard to be a parent everyone knows that. We are faced with many situations that require tact and diplomacy. I myself have been confronted by cyfps following a domestic violence situation and they are not the easiest people to deal with. I felt like a criminal as soon as they turned up on my doorstep! My feeling was that they use their status as “CYPFS” to make people feel intimidated and insecure. I knew i had done nothing wrong but i still felt answerable.

  58. michael says:

    Sorry dads4justice I was caght up in the story last night that I accidentlety speed read the comments and missed the thankyou letter from the parents return of Alex. I been through the same thing and did not know there was help although the judge seem to sense that things were not all straight forward. So dads4justice I am really impressed with what you did for the family. However you may not be liked by cyfs because really you did there job you strenghened and empowered a family.

  59. dad4justice says:

    Dear Michael,
    I am a man of integrity and a warrior of the truth and fortunately enough to have been blessed with a incredibly thick skin that shields me when I enter a cop shop, appear before a corrupt judge or enter a vile stench ridden cyfs office.
    I don’t care what the feminist agenda government authorities think of me and my very un politically correct attitude makes my job easy.

    Helping others helps ease the heartbreak of only having seen my daughters 11 times in 6 years due to the countless professional spineless parasitic scum that made themselves rich on false allegations of sexual abuse and domestic violence. The frustration I feel being on the unfair receiving end of a huge miscarriage of justice is immense, however often I am rewarded when the kids that you helped re-unite with their falsely accused parents say thank you d4j

    I think my greatest reward was rescuing six young kids from the clutches of evil cyfs care —givers. One of the young girls was raped by a cyfs approved caregiver and watching that filthy scum standing in dock and being sentenced to jail was inspiring.
    I guess this is proof that the cyfswatch website is correct when they state cyfs encourage “ familially raped” eh — the proof is in the disgusting pudding but what would the Minister Ruth Ruth can’t tell the truth Dykeson worry -!!!

    I am glad I can balance my frustration with the system by making them accountable.
    I will never given into liars .

  60. Pam says:

    I cannot believe what I have been reading. Brykari, I hope you have your son back. Your wife and self do not or should not be treated like this. As for Kimberley you are so ignorant. A child can and does fall sideways. And as Brykari said, he rolled sideways. I too have had trouble with CYFS by getting a lawyer involved things got heated but it was all good.

  61. julie says:

    I am saddened that caregivers have chosen to fight back at the parents who are fighting for their own children’s rights to be with parents.

    This move to show the corruptness in CYFS and their social workers as well as the big players has nothing to do with caregivers. In fact as a parent who has had their children in CYFS, I have a very good relationship with the most wonderful family who were the caregivers of my sons for most of their time in CYFS. They are family to us now and we are family to them. I am always thanking them for caring so much. But this relationship only came about because I was able to get support from my community who stepped up knowing I was a good mother and we organised the placement.

    CYFS never stated I was a bad mother but stated the opposite. Our case was all about CYFS workers and our personal disagreements. We clash. Have you not noticed this. CYFS is not about chidren it is about winners and losers.

    If CYFS had of had their way my boys would have been seperated and sent to homes below our (my husband’s and my) level. Infact my eldest son has been extremely damaged and will never be OK from the moves in the end. Cyfs social workers don’t care about the children’s welfare over and beyond being feed, clothed and having a roof over their head and going to school. What you don’t realise is that when our children get into trouble while in CYFS care while at school, they get treated differently as if they are damaged. Most of our children are not damaged. Every caregiver has loved my family, loved all the values and decency in my children. That made us special and very lucky. Unfortunately we don’t all get so lucky to have good caregivers. We don’t all get so lucky that a home will treat our children equal to their own children. We are not wanting to tell you good caregivers we don’t like you as we are so thankful to you. Please understand what is going on here.

    For us parents CYFS treats us like crap. You don’t see what they do. You only get told their side. But you are also an enemy yet you don’t know. They are telling caregivers now to adopt the children if the cases are as long as 4 years. If you won’t adopt the children they are threatening to take them off you. You are not allowed to like us anymore. You will also have a record against you from CYFS if you don’t report a cut knee or a scratch on the back that you may have made because you grabbed the child in fear of them going on the road. Yes, you are also in danger if someone reports on you.

    Please be open minded on this. You are the good men and women. There are too many children slipping through the system. And the price is far too great to be ignored. For every policy CYFS’s big players make in the safety for children, the more innocent children and families get targeted. We can’t allow this anymore.

  62. Mary says:

    Hi There,

    I just wanted to make a few comments. I am an ex-CYFS social worker. I rest easy at night because I know that my actions as a social worker were in the best interest of the children I worked with AND I was able to put myself in the position of the parents and families involved. I knew that in GENERAL, parents want to love and protect their children and that is the best basis for positive outcomes, not an environment of blame and fear. I tried my very best to work in ways that were safe, but also creative in terms of trying to prevent knee-jerk reactions such as complete removal of a child (unless ABSOLUTELY necessary and very well-grounded).

    I am apalled at the way Brian, Karien and Alex have been treated. Why was the baby uplifted when other solutions such as supervision by a family member would have been adequate?! This seems like one of those knee-jerk reactions that I used to fight to avoid. It sounds like their case is a politically grounded reaction to NZ’s recent child abuse history, rather than being based on the merits of the case.

    I am not perfect, only human. But I believe in making change from the inside. Being a C & P social worker is hard, in fact it’s bloody awful at times. However, a service of SOME kind is necessary. But the parents who do truly bad things to their kids are the minority. I have found that most parents need support and assistance during difficult times not a tonne of recrimination and suspicion.

    I left CYFS a few years ago when I became fed up with the departmental control over social workers responses to cases. Due to their cookie-cutter approach to complex and unique families, it became too difficult to practice ethically and fairly. I am now a trained clinical psychologist. I can make fair and ethical decisions about how to work with families that are not dictated by a department but according to what is best for the families concerned.

    And finally, I proudly call myself a feminist as to me that means improving equality. But I have a cool and rational head… I am not known for groundless rantings or rabid, ignorant, hateful verbiage. Please do not judge all feminists by the likes of one or two contributors to this site (Kimberly) and please don’t judge all social workers by the likes of a number of bad eggs. Yes, I have worked with a few incompentent, unethical social workers without a clue but also a few absolute gems whom I would trust with my own kids.

    Keep fighting the good fight and know that others do so from within the system, as best we can.

  63. lisha says:

    hi i am really sorry to hear your storie i cried i have 4 children who cyps took of me an my husband 4 months ago because my husband was accused of hitting my son dont give up and donot admitt to something you did not do it is sad and depressing and you just wanna give up cause you no cyfs is hard to fight but if you really didnt do it dont give up cyfs made me seperate from my husband they told me i would get my kids back and i havent i am finding ways now that will hopefully help me and i will post them on here all the best i feel for you i really do

  64. Nadia says:

    I would like to bring a different view into this. in my place of work i see many children that have been subjected to horrid abuse (i am not a cyfs worker but i work closely with them), many are left with unreversible damage, shaken babies that are left with cerebral palsy, ongoing seizures, visual problems, speech and language problems. some will never walk or talk again, some die. Family violence and child abuse in New Zealand has growen into a huge issue, too many children are lost due to having been subjected to terrible abuse.
    I do sympathise with families wrongly accused like some of you that have posted comments. But please do consider that CYFS workers are not out to get you, they are working hard to protect our precious children they are standing behind the children that have no one else fighting for them and i am sure they have prevented many children from being sbjected to a lifetime of abuse. I think it is unfair for people to say CYFS workers dont care about the children, or thatit is about winning and not for caring for the children for them. I do ask the people harbouring these views to consider the following:
    CYFS workers dont get paid extremely much so im sure most or all of them are in the job because they are are hoping to shape a better future for abused children… and not for the money.
    How the hell does a CYFS worker “win” if they remove a child from a family? they are very aware of the repercussions of their actions, they know the consequences if they get it wrong. They are constantly subjected to abuse from parents that feel that they have been done wrong by the system. they deal with heart breaking abuse stories every day which takes a huge emotional toll on themselves.
    But people do it because someone needs to protect children. And if it isnt CYFS who else will?

    many people need to put themselves into the shoes of a CYFS worker first before making some of the bold statements made.

    I feel sorry for CYFS workers that try to do a job to their best ability and constantly encounter such negative attitudes.

    And yes they may get it wrong but more often children are removed from homes that endanger their wellbeing and even their lives. i will always be grateful for CYFS workers that dedicate themelves to protecting those children.

    i did not mean to offend anyone but i do feel that some people are too quick to jump at CYFS throat after hearing a heart breaking story about children being seperated from their families. How about taking a look at the families and why they were seperated from their children, maybe it is even for the good of the child. does anyone ever consider that? how many people look at facts before jumping down CYFS throats?

  65. Michelle says:

    Nadia let me tell you this, you live in a dream world. CYFFS are evil through and through. They Lie, cheat and steal children from innocent families. Court appointed shinks and psychologists are paid off by this Nazi Gestapo to railroad thier innocent victims, gunned down by the familiy court in cold blood before they have the right to prove they are really not nearly as stupid as CYFFS make them out to be. I bet you would have a different opnion if you had suffered this total injustice full of lies, slander, and cut-throat vindictivness. I would like to see all CYFFS workers rounded up, put into a pit and shot for their evil crimes towards the family units of New Zealand. Their care and protection orders are nothing but a cruel insult. How would you like to be called every dirty, vile name under the sun, then finished off by a modern day gestapo without just cause or reason. CYFFS are cramed full of spite, lies and emotional blackmail. I will never forgive the LIES of CYFFS social workers and all who conspire to do their dirty work. Writing what you wrote on this forum really pisses me off. CYFFS can rot in hell as far as I”m concerned.

  66. Sarah says:

    I guess according to the law of averages, there must be some good cyfs social workers….but i’ve never met any, nor met anyone who has!
    My baby was taken when he was 5 weeks old, and if i’d listened to our social worker i wouldn’t have him back.
    He is a clever alert active baby, who had reached all his 6wk milestones between birth & 4weeks of age.
    He was in cyfs care for two weeks and did not achieve anything new except learning how to scream!Obviously the caregiver was not very attentive to his needs and did not spend time interacting with him.
    I got him back at 7 weeks & now at 8 weeks he is reaching 12week milestones!!!!!
    In need of care & protection? yeah right.
    I have fgc tomorrow & court the next day, so fingers crossed their custody order, and care & protection order get removed, and I can raise my baby in peace,providing the only care & protection my little man has ever needed!
    I’ll keep you informed.

  67. Tamara says:

    Hi. i have just found your story. I came on the net to find it because i am going thru the exact same thing at the moment. My 11 month old twin daughters were taken off me after i took one of them to the doctor because she had a sore arm. It turned out to be fractured and because the doctor said it was non-accidental CYFS came in straight away and took the girls from me. Now that they have them they are stalling in every way possible in trying to get the girls bakc into our whanau. The only good thing i have to say about CYFS is that they have brought the family together but the are putting us through hell. All the best in your fight against this giant. i hope by now that you have already won. I will keep you posted as to how things go for me and my family

  68. Lady Grey says:

    CYFS should be held as accounatble as the police.They should follow the same procedures as the police do.As far as the law and CYFS is concerned, human rights have gone to the dogs. The original intention of CYFS was no done a good intention, but all law enforcers should be held accountable. CYFs have the same power as did the GESTAPO. They can just walk in and intimidate without independent support for “the accused”
    (in this case you are always guilty before proven innocent)and until the public are looked after better on this issue , I will not cooperate or support them.I certainly will not ever again think of reporting any suspicious cases. CYFS, You have lost the support of a law abiding citizen.
    Where are the politicians? Why are none of them fighting on behalf of there voters?

  69. Lady Greay says:

    Oops! a printing error in my last posting. In the third sentance I meant to say”…The original introduction of CYFS was a good idea, but all law enforcers should be held accountable”

  70. ladyjane says:

    what makes sad is when a child is hurt in cyfs care ,its alawys an accident,when it happens at home its suddenly not an accident. as for a&e ,I know a man who went into A&E with a very severe reaction to medication,he was totally shocked and hurt as he was asked did he use hookers and treated for thrush . he went back again because his body became covered in massive blisters ,they wanted to put him in hospital, but the horrible comment previously said ,he left .He was so ill ,he lost his fingernails toenails and layers of skin. A doctor had wrote a note saying it was a reaction to his medication and it was urgent.Doctors do get it wrong ,can be judgemental. I don,t really believe they can tell with broken arms or anything like that ,I feel that look at people and make their own judgements . I belive children who are being abused aren,t usually taken to hospital, their limbs heal unnoticed. I feel CYFs need some healthy competition to keep them on their toes

  71. Benjamin Easton says:

    Murray – why not add to the site – building a “your story” section with open post on quantitative one off posting. This would build information and collate it into a place where it was presentable or referancable?

    Too much valuable information on this site will be wasted for its un organised dispersment throughout the many thousands of pages.

  72. Jeremy says:

    Hi my wife and I are just starting proceedings with cyfs. Our son broke his leg in his cot right femur and because we didn’t see it they are saying it is an unexplained injury hence they have taken our boy but put him with my (jeremy) mum and dad for the intrem. Whats makes it worse 2 things
    1. Our second child will be born in 4 weeks and they can take custody of that child as well.
    2. the report is not from the bone doc it is from the pediatrician.

    Can anyone give us some pointers on what to do. Our lawyer says to follow and do what they say but out problem with that is that when the family group conference assembles we have 2 options
    1. Admit there is a problem but probably have a faster outcome to get our son and maybe daughter back or
    2. Go to court and battle it out.
    Both of which could be bad, because in number 1 we are admitting we did it and number 2 is a very lengthy process.

    Thank you Jeremy and Angela

  73. dad4justice says:

    I feel for you Jeremy , however it must be said , sack your lawyer as they are all parasitic leaches that do nothing but suck blood money from delaying an outcome .They all say they act in the child’s best interests , however I have criminal evidence against several lawyers to say different . Lawyers hate clossure in the Family Court , look at my case, into the seventh year and still no closer to solving it than when it started!! You must fight these bastards without a lawyer !! These scum of earth cyfs retards and devious lawyers make good judges !!!

  74. Nicki says:

    Hi there Jeremy and Angela,

    My daugther had her femur broken a couple of years ago now, she was only 8 weeks old, by a dog beleive it or not!!! My advise to you is to not admit something that you haven’t done. We had a great outcome, we worked with our Cyfs lady and she was amazing to us. I was very bitter towards the doctors at the hospital as they said a dog couldn’t cause this sort of injury and that was clearly what had happened. Our saving grace was the police. They interviewed us and said that they beleived what we were saying (after all they are the professionals at getting the truth out) they asked as all sorts of questions and we answered them honestly and to the best of our knowledge. We had an older child that they could have taken off us but they didn’t. They will be gathering information on you both from everywhere, so just be strong and keep your chin up. The awful thing is that there as some buggers out there that do this sort of thing to their babies so everyone falls into the same net. Have a happy fathers day, thinking of you both.

  75. Jeremy says:

    Thank you.

    The police have cleared us, nurses and docs have said what a load of bull*****.
    The starship people have also been offered counselling for what has happened.

    Thank you again and we are trying to stay strong.

  76. Nicki says:

    Would be interesting to compare notes. Had some pretty awful dealings with some of the doc’s up there. In hindsight now I understand why they were so awful as they see so many abused kids.

  77. dad4justice says:

    Nicki , I agree Doctors do see so many abused kids , however the Family court and cyfs are so dysfunctional they are dangerous to all children . Its a sad situation. The Government agencies claiming to be acting in the child’s best interests are guilty of criminal negligence as many vulnerable children are falling between the huge gaps in the sick system . For example , CYFS and Ron Burrows ? RIP Coral .

  78. Benjamin Easton says:

    Jeremy,

    you have a question to ask of yourselves here, that if not asked and answered honestly and with commitment you are to be left in the place those experienced describe to you without the words enough effectively to tell you the travesty at your door.

    The question to ask is: what do I want more?

    This conundrum is the effective power of the state to maintain its abuses over the general citizenship. If you fight they are bigger than you and if you submit you agree to be someone or something that you, or both of you are not.

    From my experience, where this is the language of bureaucracy vs the citizenship, the safest place for everyone is for you to remain polite. As soon as you stretch this point and become angry directly at those who would engage with you, you tend to lose, where your anger is a direct registry for the department and their minions (the domestic violence industry) to focus on you and not how best to fix the problem. If you get too close into the areas where they (those active and feeding from the industry) cannot answer your direct questions as to why this is just, (and if you are ANGRY it is a certainty) theri best and most necessary defence is to blame your attitude. Withthis comes conjecture. Everyone begins to argue and the circlular arguments for their nature in power define at their every end that you (and ultimately your son and daughter) will lose. I don’t really consider time is a healer. It just becomes easier to bare the wound.

    For my expereinces I haven’t answered your question – yet – I have hopefully given you an instrument from what others are saying. That instrument: is to calm down – always.

    Once you are clam, things take a different perspective, especially if you are both strong in how you treat the infection of a departmental investigation. If there are areas in your past that are under scrutiny, don’t be afraid of them, because they are the truth. The difference for you is that you folk know the “truth” and the department has to prove that you are not telling it because in teh best interests of the children it is their task to expose you: if you are so telling lies. That is what the industry looks like. “If there are lies we will find them”. So calm down.

    If there is violence that isn’t so easy to do. Yet in the end, it will be your strength. If you (or others) are involved in practices that require the severe discipline of your children, then you have to realise “first” – that the department and the public are not inclined to tolerate such violence. This assumption gives (the industry) the department all of the power, and if alikened to a game of cards – all of the cards.

    Yet that is not quite the truth.

    The Family Group Conference is an instiution that has been established to mitigate its way through the problems – looking deeper to find a social balance that is more consistent to the Act, which itself is defined to protect the interests of the child. This being the case (and presently I would emphasise only the theory) the FGC becomes an instrument that you can use best to effect any compromise that could be gained, between the brutality of the industry and the necessity for the soul(s). So stay calm.

    What I have said above, is that CYFS are a group of brutal folk who for whatever reason make their incomes out of assuming that they can calculate the best interests of the children. That; they have to be brutal because that is what in some cases is required. That; even if there has been violence against your child the method best you have to employ is the FGC where if “you are calm” compromises can be worked out from extremely difficult situations. That; if you don’t stay calm and you get ANGRY, you will lose, as will your son and daughter and that this extraordinary pain is timeless disguised as mitigating.

    What Pete: AKA Dad’s for Justice: has advised you is much the same, although Pete has championed like no other in NZ history the ability to stay outright angry! And good on him! But to be like Pete you have got to be like Pete, and that energy is hard to maintain – it needs a special kind of person with a special kind of love to stay that strong and that resiliant.

    However, this is not to say that everything is bleak. You still: as natural parents have a trumping card. The card hasn’t been played yet in any law cases with which I am familiar – but the department’s legal team are now aware that they must give it some public credibility and scrutiny.

    Under s.15 of the Care of Children Act 2004 you folk (I presume you are biological parents) are more than natural guardians. Guardianship is modelled on your parental rights. In order for the government to disaffect you from your relationship with your son and daughter, if they so should, it would be because they have given themselves the legal authority so to do – yet – under that section, they still have to recognise that you have natural parental rights.

    There are cases now before CYFS where they have extended their power to override their responsibilities to maintain association. I would allege that the department, as nor does its evolution in social manipulating agenda, practice, have that great a history protecting associations between sons and daughters and mothers and fathers.

    This is not to say that the department may not remove your children from you. It means that they have more of a duty to recognise your rights of association than they have done so in the past. And more specifically: they MUST recognise this natural value (in a western – Westiminster based – civilisation) to be extended to their alleged client the child (I say alleged because at present violence is their client).

    So this is an instrument for your benefit when you want to stay calm. The department must protect the association between both parents and their sons and daughters when with an intention to become, or for having become involved in your personal circumstances.

    Your argument to be presented is that that association is already strong and for the state to interfere with an intention to remove, then it is they who are compromising the best interests of the child. You need to prove as best you are able that to remove such an association without adequately providing for the building of that association (as under s.7 of the Act) then it will be your son and daughter, ultimately who will suffer the damage of that intervention.

    I am sorry to read about your circumstances and wish you the very best in the toughest kinds of struggle that the ordinary folk of New Zealand are made to undergo for the oppression of the capitalist expansion.

    Respectfully,
    Benjamin Easton
    (of a) fathers’ coalition.

  79. julie says:

    Benjamin,

    I think you would lose many people by the way you go on about things.

    Jeremy,

    Heaps of parents go through what you are going through. The best thing to do is make things change as quick as possible. Don’t sign any papers and don’t let them go through a whole list of things they want you to do. You are innocent and stick to the story. Don’t phone them when you are upset and don’t phone them when you are angry. Talk rational all the time. They are trained to pick up on anything you say or how you say it. You are in a system now.

    You are innocent and that is what you must act like. You will have your child back in no time if you play the game well.

    Just ask what they want and get your child back. Most children are returned quickly.

  80. Well sorry to say Julie that things just don’t work out quite that way when you are up against the Gestapo. To Cyfs its just a game, they lie constantly, emotionally blackmail, fraud docos etc, if only it was as simple as you make out. Your statement is just a fantasy. It’s quite clar to me that you just don’t know what you are talking about. I have known of scores of people that do everything the corrupt department says and still no luck with getting their beloved children back. Just you remember, lots of children are taken by the department through vindictive lies and hidden adgendas by so-called parties that have no respect whatsoever for life and no morals either. CYFS flourish under false information then move in for th kill, and destroy innocent families time after time. The truth is never listened to by Cyffs, who have no life skills and don’t even know how to communicate. Most children are NOT returned quickly……. You are really trying to fool yourself on that statement, that’s a load of rubbish. It does not matter what you look like, Cyfs take anything said and then they twist it to suite their own evil adgenda. They even falsify court docos with their dirty sick lies. As far as I am concerend CYFFS can burn in hell, for their rotten stinking attacks on the family units of New Zealand. CYfs are heartless, lying child-stealing abusing murderers. Best interests of the child are paramount they say, this is bullshit.

  81. Benjamin Easton says:

    Fortunately Michelle,

    for the very excellent efforts of CYFSWATCH and the fathers’ coalition, the pressure has been put on the administrations to check themselves.

    If you want to help to apply with a real ability to apply pressure (and we should hope) to bring about change, focus your letters of injustice to Mel Smith. He is the Ombudsman who is scrutinising the review of the justice system. He has some experience of the CYFS portfolio. A link between injustice and CYFS inaction or responsibility to s.7 of the Act will be a paramount argument to effect the kinds of changes us of the wounded families all need (and should so demand) to have brought about.

    CYFS as is the whole system is under review. That review will only accomodate the information before it. If there isn’t a challenge before the review, or its officers do not comprehend the full weight of the pain and suffering that has been inflicted by substandard policies of social intervention as acted out by too inexperienced and undertrained as underpaid officers, then a lightweight paper will be the end that everyone (for one argument) deserves.

  82. julie says:

    Gosh, well, I asked for the reply I got from you, Michelle.

    It is not that I don’t know what you are going through.

    It is not that I haven’t been there and done that and it is not that I have contact with social workers and regional manager of our area and it is not that I don’t know that CYFS already knew they are having problems and were looking for solutions and had big meetings with overseas people prior to cyfswatch coming into play. And it is not that I don’t know how the hospital system works.

    I don’t know what to say to you to make your own situation easier although I know what will help but then I know very few people will do what I did. Yet I was lucky to have caregivers that refused to take legal custody and cyfs social workers themselves continued to band together and push Government to allow our case to be of special privilege.

    I don’t know what to say to you because I can’t make a wrong a right when you are in the system. By that I mean I can’t help anyone COPE and I can’t beat the red tape just through telling people to get a lawyer and hope for a nice judge on a good day or to get a few of the most qualified counsellors in NZ to back you up.

    But here is a tip. Move to Auckland. they have over 4,000 children waiting for homes and they know most homes they have available will raise your kids worse than you will. they are trying hard to get rid of cases.

  83. Jeremy says:

    Thank you all for your comments. Went and saw our lawyer today and he said that at the family group conference he said that if we say no their is no problem and all the family back you then cyfs go and decide if they want to go to court or retract the case altogether. The other option is as stated before we admit there is a problem. We have decided to wait it out till the family group conference and see what the family says but I can tell you now that everyone is going to say that there isn’t a problem.

    I think that as parents we need to be strong and do something about this system. It stinks!!!! What they do is not the issue, the issue is the bullshit they spit to get the children and the innocent parents are the ones that get hurt. For instance my wife and I are getting counseling for what they are putting us through.

    Nikki — It would be great to compare notes. If you want to ring my phone is 09 8133700 and my wife is home tomorrow, further than that meeting to discuss is up to you, but something needs to be done.

    Cheers Jeremy and Angela

  84. del says:

    Hi, everyone,
    Firstly to the couple that started this, I hope you have your child back.
    I am a grandmother who has gone through hell and back.
    Firstly, our fist grandchild was taken off my daughter, admitly she needed to be. This child died at the age of 6 of natural causes. But after my daughter found she had lost this one again, she went depressed, even though she now had another child who cyfs looked at and let go. She spoke to the plunket helpline I think it was, and they informed the police and cyfs, that she was suicidal. Cyfs, decided to get involved and asked for respite care for 28 days, so she signed himover after this was done, she wanted to get him back this is where they started not to give him back. Threats have been made, and my daughter gave in. Through a fgc we putthings in place for her to do, and she has done most of them except 2 of which 1 she is in at present. She has had a nother child to another partner who she is stable with and he is a good dad and whould be great with her other boy. She has now got tosufferfighting to get this boy back fromt he caregiver, who has had him for 15mths while my daughter has ploughed her way though it all. The access she has had to endure being called by her name not allowed to be called mummy,the caregiverhas taken this role. When challenged we were told that this is not allowed. The access that was aggreed to was never put into place. You see the caregiver has her own agenda, and that is to get this boy into her permanent care, as he is the half brother of the first child who died. I believe she has done this all along as 2 weeks after she was quoted to say “how is …..(the boy)” I question this and she would ring me probing me for information. SHe has manuipulated this, and her lies are believed. My daughter has come along way and due to this she is now victimised and has to fight permanent placement which cyfs has suggested. As for counsell for the child, she is biased. She has dealt with all children and even been on friendly terms with caregiver. Is there any way to get her removed as the counsell for the child. If this family has to go through this again, I believe it will hurt us all very much. I have raised 5 children on my own but i am not consider for placement of my grandson how is that. My family is christians, except for a few members, and the mother of the child is christian and so is her now partner. God is a restorer of families not a destroyer of them. If anyone has any good helpful tips as I am fighting this with every thing I have, as to have access after the caregiver does get placement thats if she does, my daughter will have to arrange it with her supervising, and I spoke up and said that will not work. I explained that my daughter will have to go with someone as the caregiver could start up lying about her again andgo for the next child. I want my daughter protected from that.

  85. Bernie says:

    My Advice to the grand mother would be to ask for another social worker, tell them you dont believe this person is working in the best intrests of the child, one question i would ask is when is the next meeting? the date she has to do all these requirements by? maybe she should also think about doing something extra to show cyfs that she wants her child back…also why isnt the child with you? the CORRECT thing for them to do is look at the mother, then father, then grandparents, then unties and uncles and THEN and ONLY THEN they should look for someone outside the family circle,have you seen a lawyer yet? Cyfs dont tell you to get a lawyer in fact, they say not too, so that they can do things behind your back, please let me know how your daughter gets on email sunshine_summer_beach@hotmail.com

  86. Wake up and smell the coffee Bernie. Dont you know that all CYFFS social workers are soul destroying, mean, cold hearted lying Nazis from hell. Lawyers too are corrupt and working for the system. The only thing a Lawyers going to do is take your money and shit all over you in court because they are married to the system and passing the buck. CYFFS are evil power crazed mongrels from hell. The Gestapo will never learn to tell the truth unless there is a change in ledgerslation and a NEW and more honest GOVERNMENT. We need to fight back by all banding together and having a great big protest ralling gather the numbers, like the one we saw over the North Shore sea-bed. CYFFS are imoral, vindictive satanic demons with one thing on their mind. To murder and break up as many families as they can through their cruel cold hearted lies because its big business for them. They are making a lot of money out of stealing children away from innocent parents
    http://www.youbethejudge.org
    Check out this site it may be of help and assistance to many families who are suffering and has a lot of interesting information from it. The site comes from THAMES.

  87. Bernie says:

    thanks for the link, well i only speak from what i know of and what my friends and other family members have been through, a lawyer helped me and helped them, and you can get legal aid, but then again i heard on the news its more of a “we pay for you and you pay us back” thing now, can’t even bare thinking about what the government is going to do next!

  88. Mary says:

    Michelle,

    “…all CYFS social workers are are soul destroying, mean, cold hearted lying Nazis from hell…CYFFS are imoral, vindictive satanic demons with one thing on their mind.”

    Sorry to say this but…
    Although we all agree on this site that things need to change with CYFS, your rantings are hateful, offensive, totally unhelpful and indicate that your view of reality may be somewhat skewed. Get some help.

  89. Bernie says:

    hmm, good point, i agree

  90. Well I have the right to hate this cruel vindictive moder day gestapo after all of the lies that they have told. If you’de been through what I’de been through with this evil vile rotten stinking lying department you may have another point of view, and I’m not ranting deary, I’m telling the truth. Oh so lets all give CYFFS a big fat pat of the back and tell them how marvellous they are!!!!!!!
    If you think they’re so great why don’t you join a CYFFS support site. I don’t need no do-gooders telling me to get some help when I know damm well from my personal experience just how corrupt and low these Nazi dog moles from CYFFS really are. I’m not out of touch with reality, I know damm well whats going on at there with these corrupt CYFFS pigs, and I shall never rest in peace until these evil devils are all brought to justice. DOES THE TRUTH HURT, YES IT DOES, and I’m sure not the only one out there that feels the way I do because I have spoken to too many of us who have been hurt and violated by these CYFFS NAZIS, through their cruel and callious unfounded lies. Mary I suggest you learn about the truth and don’t knock someone that you don’t know who has been through hell and back because of CYFFS. I feel so sorry for you Mary!!!!! you are talking through a hole in your sweet little head!!!!!!

  91. Mary says:

    Michelle,

    I was simply raising the point that your language is offensive and unhelpful. Yet, your responses just get worse… and personal. So, I don’t think I will lower myself to respond in a personal manner, except to say that you have no idea of my experience of CYFS or government agencies in general. So I laughed when I read your comment below:
    “Mary I suggest you learn about the truth and don’t knock someone that you don’t know who has been through hell and back because of CYFFS”.

    In addition, there are many families on this website who have been through hell through the actions of SOME social workers at CYFS. Yet they do not lower themselves to hateful language nor lose sight of perspective. To call ALL social workers, lawyers and psychiatrists evil Nazi’s is just plain delusional.

    As for your comments:
    “I feel so sorry for you Mary!!!!! you are talking through a hole in your sweet little head!!!!”

    My God, the insults just get worse! Not only have your posts been offensive, they are also insulting to anyone who disagrees with, or questions your mode of protest. I thought this website was about healthy debate and finding practical, proactive strategies for dealing with CYFS (as opposed to a forum for the mad ranting of a few). Your response has just confirmed my belief that you need to get some help. And please don’t feel sorry for me- I am a happy person despite everything that I have been through.

    So please lets get on with the real issues and steer clear of hateful, abusive language and focus on helpful support for Del and her family. By the way, Del… has there been any progress?

  92. Michelle says:

    Well mary you are allowed your opinion, and I’m allowed mine. I’m not disolutioned, and I’m sure not the only one out there that feels this way. Well you don’t sound very happy for me, I think you’re fooling youself and you refuse to know the truth about these lying Nazis and the whole corrupt money grubbing system. Maybe you’re out of touch with reality. CYFFS are the hateful ones and I am just expressing my anger and total discust at the evil crimes that they committ against humanity. Don’t waste your time trying to convince me that anyone tied up and paid off by the corrupt gestapo of cyffs is honest or committed to helping and guiding our families. I know full well that the whole lot of them are dirty low life Nazi liars. I have exhausted all avenues to come to this conclusion, and I have met many people who have been to hell and back with CYFFS. You are a do-gooder that seems to be on the side of the department. I have the right to hate and dispise the satanic forces that are hard at work in this department.

  93. Magnolia says:

    I agree that the system is screwed up and soo old fashioned, they do need to look into it.. though i have to admit if it was not for cyps I would not be here at this time with children and happy.
    there were a few things they did do wrong..
    i know lately.. within the last 10 years or so i wondered if they have gotton worse.. a couple of cyps workers, the power seems to go right over their heads.
    we rang an mp to help us but they said ‘ we are anot allowed to help people with cyp cases.. though being national they are not really family orientated..
    there is absolutely NO communication anywhere with them, I am a respite caregiver and we look after kids and never really know what day they are gettiong picked up n stuff.. no communication.. and when we talk to the boss hes like confused as we are.
    good luck with ur case and i am sorry to hear.. as much as I would like to say u’ll have ur lil one back soon, i really do not know.. cos their 2 weeks usually turn to one month then its 6 months, then its.. the child is doing very well we would hate to interupt the routine, so its a year and then all of a sudden kids are free at 17 .. :/
    as horible as it sounds, do not give up.. remember u have the obudsman.. andthe higher up bosses.

  94. Darryl Genet says:

    Kimberly, having meet Peter Burns (dad for justice)a number of times, and seen first hand the positive outcomes he has achieved, I can assure you that the world needs far more people like him,and far less people like you. CYFS can not even supply me with the information i have requested in the time frame they are legally obliged to do so within. if they cannot do this simple task how can any one expet them to make the right decisions in regards to acting in the (child’s welfare and best interests. I strongly urge anyone out there to be very wary of CYFS, the POLICE, COUNCIL FOR CHILD, and THE FAMILY COURTS. unless there is truth, there is no justice for the children, and there honest decent family’s. P.s Kimberly go and get some professional help, and leave us alone. PP.S I will be sacking my lawyer this week and perusing my case with the aid of Peter.

  95. Hadi Akbari says:

    My wife Darelle had a few children a while ago when living in New Plymouth, a woman who couldnt have children stole her daughter at 3mths of age, changed her name and would never let her see the child, now nearly 17yrs and still not allowed contact, in the meantime Darelle had her son, four years she fought for him as the woman who wanted him so bad rang cypfs using the fact Darelle had lost her daughter as a reason to take her son, this woman made so many allegations against Darelle but couldnt succeed in getting custody, then came up with sexual abuse when the child was 4yrs and neither him or police were allowed in the courtroom, and she won custody, Darelle was never to see her little boy again, anyway she then moved to Auckland to start fresh, i met her in September 2005, to me she was this poor young girl who has been to hell and back although we have been married two years now and have a beautiful big baby boy whom was taken 10 minutes after he was born, we have no idea where he is or who he is with and can see he is being neglected and abused, Darelle is livig on anti-depressants and sleeping pills, having nightmares, i am Iranian and my family back home i guess you could say are so frustrated as we dont steal children in Iran, when i try explaining this to cypfs they have me up on threatening charges, could we all get together and fight these baby snatchers, we are losing the plot, please someone help me, i want my 9mth son home with his parents and where he belongs

  96. Hadi says:

    Hi guys, Sorry, I cant go to sleep knowing all you poor people have gone through what Darelle and i are going through, it has to stop, God gave us all children to love and cherish, not have them stolen by these creatures, we see our son once a week for two hours and yet we have the best bond anyone could ever imagine, you know i am seriously looking at going hunger strike outside parliament real soon, United Nations will get involved just like they did over those poor maoris having thier homes raided and guns held to those beautiful childrens heads who are now scarred for life, is that not child abuse! This government has a lot to answer for but at the same time the people in this country have let them get away with so much for so long and that is where i am different, i will f— them every way i can as i am a man

  97. Thanks Hadi for your comments. I feel the same way. I am a mother who has been seriously f. over by CYFFS and the low life corrupt rigged system. CYFFS only like to express their side of the story which is lies, slander, lies, more slander and vindictive evilness though and through. Thanks also to Julie. I have never once ever thought of harming my children. The lies that CYFFS have told in court docouments have left me so emotionally disturbed that I’m just fulled to the brim with hurt, discust and anger, and I don’t know how to process all the hell that CYFFS have put me and my precious children though. No matter what gets said to CYFFS ends up twisted, negative and perverted. I guess the gestapo are very good at this. I have found out that if they pick on the mother (SHE’S) automatically got a mental illness
    if they pick on the father then they brand (HIM) with sexual abuse.
    How many families lives must be destroyed until some figure of authoirty fronts up with some answers. Social Workers who lie under oath should be charged accordingly to the law. The Australian Government are now apoligizing to Aborigine children stolen from their biological parents in the 1960’s and placed in white foster homes. The New Zealand Government should come to the party and front up, compensate and give back some kind of quailty of life to all of the families here that they have hurt and broken with their cruel cold hearted lies.

  98. Bernie says:

    A part of that is so true Michelle, i remember when i had a “mental illness” oh and better not forget those “anger issues” of which i was made to do an anger management course, oh and that i “neglected” my child by leaving her with her father for an hour, my my, what has this country come to. I’m so glad my fight that latest 2 years is over, even thought my daughter was in my care, i will never get back the first year of her life when i was under so much stress, in fact, i can’t even remember all but 2 small parts of the first year because i was so destroyed by CYFS, i have a good mind to sue them for damages to me and to my child. I still cry when i think about what happened to me and my daughter, good luck and god bless everyone and anyone involved with CYFS.

  99. Dearest Bernie I know how you feel. CYFFS here in Hamilton did similar things to me like that. They are on a witch-hunt. You’re dammed if you do and your dammed if you don’t. Everyone that comes under the gestapos knife is a suspect, ridiculed, put down in the most viliest manner. Those horrible CYFFS have the devil in them, they are full of lies and deciete. They are punishing those of us that are innocent while at the same time they let the guilty go free. I know that CYFFS have treated me worse than a criminal. But yet I have never offended nor broken the law. Bernie I too have cried many tears. Hadi it’s a good idea to go on a hunger strike, can I join you. I can never rest in peace knowing that these CYFS social workers are out there destroying so many innocent lives, if anyone wants to e-mail me feel free to do so at michelle_lee@xtra.co.nz
    I’m going to be in Wellington next week for something really special that will never happen again in New Zealand, to those of you that have been so supportive I’de like to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Many justice be waiting just around the corner. CYFFS have got away with their cruel abuse of families way to long, somethings got to give. Lets all work together to get the truth out there to the general public.

  100. oh sorry guys my underscore _ in my e-mail diddn’t show up it should have an underscore _ between michelle _ lee @ xtra.co.nz thanks

  101. my e-mail has no spaces and is all in lowercase michelle(then underscore_)@xtra.co.nz Would love to hear from someone on this blog and I could send pictures, all the best!

  102. Hadi Akbari says:

    Yes for sure Michelle, of course you can join me, i was hoping many of us could get together outside parliament and not eat until every poor innocent child in this country is returned to their parents but we all need to take with us a blown up photo of our children, put it this way the second these ————- take our children your dead, they have taken your life, without your children you have nothing, hunger strike is the most powerful weapon

  103. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi Alex & Family, I read your blog and hurt so bad, never own up to something you didnt do, my wife did just that and it is the worst thing she has ever done, although she had all the hospital documents to say her daughter of 5mths died from illnesses she had from birth, she was a young solo mother who was in womans refuge due to being raped and beaten by some guy she took in to her home as she felt sorry for him, he left Auckland taking all her property including her car and she was taking her son and daughter back and forth to starship, cypfs were involved but when my wife asked if they could help by taking her daughter for a couple of nights just so she could rest a little they said no, my wifes daughter died, cypfs took her son, she was thrown out on the street, police picked on her, detective wrote a false statement accusing my wife of murder, her lawyer was a ——— telling her to just plead guilty and get it over with otherwise he didnt want to know, she went not guilty up until trial and found she had nothing, pleaded guilty to manslaughter, she just couldnt handle being part of this world, she never wanted to come out, the day she got out i met her and will never let her go, i believe in her and i hope all you people can too, lets stick together and f—-these ——– ———- we love our children

  104. Michelle Driver says:

    I would be really keen to stage some sort of protest down here
    (Christchurch) my husband and I went through a horrible experience when our
    son was 5 weeks old i wont go into it but basically i feel that everyone
    overreacted and the health system abused our baby (by forcing us to have
    skeletal surveys done which may give him cancer!) not us, we were lucky our son wasnt taken away but that was only because they knew that we were unjustly accused by the hospital, me and my husband are in the process of doing
    a formal complaint, we finally have recieved our notes from cyfs only to
    find that it is full of spelling mistakes they have mine my husbands and my
    sons age wrong and basically they look like they were written by monkeys,
    I am so unhappy with the way we were treated and the appaling way in which
    the whole thing was handled not only by cyfs but by christchurch hospital
    as well, we are writing to anyone who will listen (politicans, ombudsmans, cheif medical officer of health, campbell live etc)and i am also prepared to go to the media, i would love to hear from anyone in christchurch who has
    been unjustly accused or anyone who would like to stage a protest of any kind

  105. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi Michelle, we have tried every government agency possible, they dont want to know, i would be interested in a protest anywhere in the country as long as i am not the only one who turns up but i prefer hunger strike, starship hospital, womans refuge and cypfs are to blame for my wifes baby girls death and they will pay

  106. Hi Hadi, and pay they will. I personally curse those lying CYFFS motherF….. it the firey pits of hell, their foul stinking vermon should be erased from the Earth forever. CYFFS are Nazi SS Gestapo lying, slandering scum. They have no heart they are not human. Hadi have you got MSN MESSENGER you can add me at
    sweetmedicinewoman@hotmail.com All the best Michelle in Hamilton

  107. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi Michelle, i have no idea what you are talking about, is that msn messenger on the computer or mobile? sorry i arent really that great when it comes to computers and mobiles but i e-mailed you the other night and dont think you received it, you have no idea how angry i am with these ——— ———– sorry i havent thought of a name for them yet as i dont think there is a name that fits their description, but what you people have said so far are not too bad, Michelle, i didnt know you were in Hamilton, could we please come and see you some time, our address is 74 Delta Ave New Lynn Auckland, our phone numbers are 8260027 0212720321 iwe would love to see your photos

  108. Hi Hadi I’m sorry I diddn’t receive any e-mail from you. I would love to send you photgraphs of us. If you e-mail me at my hotmail address:
    sweetmedicinewoman@hotmail.com I promise to get back to you and send yousome photos. When I have you e-mail I will be able to send you an invite to messenger. It’s cheaper than using the telephone. I’de never be without MSN Messenger. You have to download and install it, then fill out an online form and then start connecting with contacts anywhere in the world. Of course you are very welcome to come and see me. I’m gonna be away this week I leave for Wellington on Wednesday night. I’m going down there to see my favorite band of all time rock out Wellingtons WestPac Trust Stadium. American rockers KISS. They are gonna be dressed to kill in their warpaint, yippie.It’s gonna be a blast seeing my idol, Paul Stanley again.
    My telephone number is (07) 8497744
    My address is 10 Jamieson Crescent, Te Rapa, Hamilton.
    Take care Hadi, Michelle in Hamilton

  109. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi Michelle, My e mail address is hadiakbar@gmail.com

  110. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi Michelle, i was just reading some of these comments, i must say there are a lot of arrogant people in this country who really wouldnt have a clue but then i was just like that when people including friends were telling me about how their poor innocent little children were stolen from them, i said no way, people dont tell lies that will destroy a persons life and steal their children but when it happens to you, i still cant believe it, how these 1000.000s of people have sat back and let these ——– ——– treat them this way, ill be damned but nobody takes MY child and gets away with it, i have all my whanau back in Iran there for me including Uncle Mamoud (president of Iran) i have a lot of very close friends here who are Maori, Samoan, Tongan and Middle Eastern

  111. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi guys, i just thought maybe some of you might like this info.
    Petitions Team
    Office of the High Commisioner for Human Rights
    United Nations Office at Geneva
    1211 Geneva 10, Switzerland
    PH (41-22) 917900
    Fax +41 22 917 9022
    E-Mail tb-petitions@ohchr.org

  112. nicky says:

    Hi everyone been reading your stories and now really scared. I have just been to cyps today due to my 5year old daughter telling me that in the weekend when she was at her dads she was in bed wih her father’s parents and her grandad pulled up his wifes top and got my daughter to pinch her nana’s boobs. I was horrified of what i had heard every mothers worst nightmear. I was told today from cyps that not only will they investergate them but also me why me what have I done but try and protect my daughter. I also have 2 other children to my husband. The system is really [email protected]#$ed up as i have been to my lawyer recently about her uncle hitting her and nearly drowning her in the pool but I couldnt stop her dad from having her and now this has happened. Can anyone give me any advice on how to prepare for cyps to come into my home and investegate me I am a loving mum and will do anything for my kids. I no they will try and use my age against me as i am only 24 nearly 25 and have 3 kids close together but I work (from home) and my kids have everything they need. Can some one please give me some advice I cant lose my kids they are my life. im on msn nickyrichards_777@hotmail.com

  113. nicky says:

    seeing my lawyer early next week

  114. Hadi Akbari says:

    Hi Nicky, i honestly dont know what to say, how unfortunate you had to go to those ———- ——– i can see you love your children as we all do and are just looking out for them, probably should have gone to the police although they would have contacted those ———- ——– anyway, once you get them in your life there is no getting rid of them, have someone reliable with you when they come around, you have done nothing wrong so dont be scared

  115. Bernie says:

    Hiya Nicky – be aware that they do check the children’s bedrooms if they want to, I have added both you and Michelle to my msn, i hope you both don’t mind, i think the best way to fight these people is if we share our knowledge so others like you nicky, be can be ready and expect what is coming.they do also lie, whatever you do don’t try joke, they will take it and turn it around, in fact, say as least as possible and don’t get angry (because your trying to stand up for your child/ren otherwise they will say you have anger issues, oh and try find a good lawyer, they help some and not others so i guess its and 50% chance you will get a good one that isnt all about the system.god bless.

  116. Alastair says:

    There is Speciaist CYFS help at http://www.cyfstalk.org. One section is called cyfs help. there is national membership, and a developing Australian presence. You have to join. You may use an alias and yahoo type address, however you have to supply your real name and an ISP address in confidence to the administrators. The servers are off shore. It is totally secure, well as secure as anything on the internet ever is. They regularly name Social workers etc. A database of the satraps of the system is being devaloped presently and will be available for use soon, (As I am motivated to finish it)

    The other group, though not so radical is pauls-news (www.yahoohroups.com/pauls-news)

    It focus’s more on fanily court issues including self representation. somewhat less secure than cyfstalk but the same rules for joining apply.

    MSN is totally insecure. As are bebo and the other social sites. We have reason to believe cyfs monitor them regularly and act on information. Do NOT even think of posting personal information there. Both the groups I mentioned Cyfs and their sychophants attempt to join the secure groups at frequent intervals, we have managed to thwart them. You are welcome to apply to either or both groups.

  117. Hadi Akbari says:

    Go to google and look up cyfs caregivers

  118. Hadi Akbari says:

    Go to google and look up cyfs social workers

  119. concerned says:

    so sad to hear the reason why i know i 3 poor children have been neglected for 6 years, all because cyfs are wasting all their resources and time etc on innocent families. they have their job to do and are too busy with the wrong people its heartbreaking to hear about innocent families while the children who really need the help are suffering silently. for the first time in so many years cyfs are finally listening to us. maybe something will be done insteading of waiting for one of them to die before anything is done

  120. I think CYF no right I need get church someone very fantacise experince more than any lawyer or counseller why because church are community in area any national or local other people make children get hurt hasnt enough throught to heart broken from thier parent example same like Eve and Adam thier sons Callum and Adel brother are twin because father bad attudie show children make women of mother very hurt that why I not think CYF very isnt good same like court i think not good I think best Jesus or Jehavon can trail to thier people to choice right. from Misty i hope not get me wrong haha.

  121. pania grace says:

    I am a mother of four children we come from whangarei and I lost my son to a set up by my ex partners mother who preplanned with cyps kamo to take my son at birth,domestic violence, portrayed by her son shes a care giiver and a druggie a piss head history of family violence knows how to work on people for pleasure
    had a relationship for somewhat she recalls 12years to her husband raised 8 children and from what her son has said he doesnt know why cyps never took us away from our violent piss head parents. her name is Sarah Heta or Sarah pomare.
    now remeber i said she had a husband of 12 years left him because of his violence where he apparently threatened to kill her its 2008, and he resides in
    her housing new zealand house in tikipunga and he follows her where ever she gos, for example sarah has a new mann who also has a ex wife kids who live in Australia, whos similar life relates to sarah hes also a cyps caregiver a dependant bludger to cyps kamo for financial asistince for everything you can get frm cyps. his name is johnson Rudolph, resides in Broadwood kaitaia my son is two years of age and i had him for 6 months alot of court fights cyps placed him with a sick mental caregiver whos is a well known addict who today says shes a innocent mother, whos never used at all acts so innocent b careful dont trust these caregivers indenial family my son got taken off me because of nai in may 5th 08, i was cleared by the police, and cyps still till this day have not seen or herd anything to do with my son sarah is using her whanau who also work in cyps who support this lady to have permancy this is a sad story you lose your baby at birth because of domestic violece given that your baby gos to the perpatrators family and not yours i dont want any mother to go threw what 2years has done to me, im still battling in court and the paternal grandmother is trying to get full custody by the way i used to be a druggie and i am clean i dont drink i have a healthy safe house and i ended up having a baby girl shes my first vilent free bubs drugfree and im with alot of agencys this evil tart even tryed to take my baby while i was carrying always have your lawyer work with you build a relationship to be protected dont go to meetings with cyps take your trusted supporting members and you have rights use the law

  122. Misty Wirangi says:

    HELLO EVERYONE, PLUS THE WORLD TOO,

    HI MY NAME IS MISTY I AM FULL DEAF I COME FROM NEW ZEALAND AND I FEEL VERY SORRY FOR EVERYONE I AM SORRY TO EVERYONE I KNOW ABOUT PROBLEM VERY STRESS TO MOTHER ARE VERY A KIND A ANGER OF MANAGER BUT LISTEN TO ME I KNOW PLENTY MOST MAN ARE VERY LAZY ABOUT MAN 55% AND WOMEN STRESS 80% NOT PREFECT! ,YOU NEED GET NANNYSUPER OR CONSELLER HELP TO YOU IF YOU REALLY TO FAILURE GO BACK CHURCH MAKE YOU CHANGE GOOD PERSON EASY IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ME I AM TELL YOU STORY YOU SAME LIKE ME I WAS WORSE STRESS I JUST THINK WHICH GOOD BETTER FOR ME PICK RIGHT FOR ME I WAS TRIED HAVE A LOOK ABOUT COUNSELLER HELP ME VERY GOOD I FEEL GOOD THEN I WANT BE GOOD DREAM WHAT I WANT CHURCH AND BIBLE HELP ME FOR SHOW CHILDREN ROLE MODEL THINK I AM GOOD MOTHER THAT WHY AND HEY EVERYONE LOOK Y’ALL CAN’T SEE WHERE “HEART” BALANCE IS GOOD OR BAD BUT GOD KNOW ABOUT HEART ARE KIND A BAD OR GOOD BEHAVOUIR I HEARD ABOUT BIBLE STORY WAS EXPLAIN TO ME BUT I NOT BEILEVE TO COURT NEED “PUNISHMENT” AND “WASTED!” BETTER AND WAIT FOR GOD GET BIG JUDGEMENT DAY YOU WILL FIND OUT I NOT THINK I NEVER TRUST TO COURT KIND ARE DIFFERENT STORY FO GOD ARE WHO ARE LAW RIGHT UP TO GOD CHOICE NOT FOR WORLD SORRY! TRUST ME AND I WON’T BE BLAME TO YOU AND YOU BEETER ASK ANY CHURCH KNOW ARE EXPERINCE BETTER THAN I AM AND IF YOU GO COURT AND JAIL SO I AM HERE TELL YOU BETTER CAREFULLY I HEARD THE USA AMERICAN TRIED KILL TO ANY HUMAN FROM JAIL TOO YOU MUST BETTER GO SEE TELL JESUS OR CHURCH WILL HELP YOU AND JESUS WILL SAVE FOR YOU KEEP THEY HAVE COURT IN HEAVEN I AM NOT BE PRETEND I HONSETLY WHEN I AGE 13 YEAR OLD I MEET AT HIM IN HEAVEN VERY NICE BETTER THAN CYF AND COURT NOT VERY GOOD.

    I NOT BE RUDE TO YOU I WANT TO HELP TO YOU EVERYONE I GIVE YOU THINK ABOUT IT OK WHAT YOU WANT BETTER FOR YOU CAN!,

    I LVOE YOU EVERYONE FROM MISTY I FORGIVE TO VERYONE ;).

  123. Yep I know just how evil and vindictive these lying CYFFS Gestapo Satan Worshipers can be because I have suffered their full wrath full hand. CYFFS lied to the family court and put it in writing saying that my family made the recommendation to them that my children were in need of care and protection. This is simply not true. CYFFS emotionally blackmailed my family into their aggrement by cunningly telling them on the spot and without warning that if they diddn’t bow down to them and hand my children over to my wicked power and control freak EX, (not the biological father of my 2 little ones, but the major complaint informer and lying nark, but the father of my oldest daughter that has been returned to my care) then they were going to place my 2 little ones in automatic foster-care and that my family would not know where they went and would not be able to see them. A social worker snake by the name of LEE TRACY BLOOMFIELD, (note no children of her own) did nothing more than insult me with her lying CYFFS buddies, never communicated to me on any normal plane, just bullshitted her way through, lied and condemed me. My back was against the wall. She told me that my children were at risk and they had to do something about it. This is simply not true. All lawyers so far have taken my money, never listened to my side of the story. They too have bowed down to the sick, corrupt system. What is written on my CYFFS file is really disturbing, still gives me nightmares to this day, and what’s wworse is I know where all the slander has come from. I’ve been treated like an idoit by CYFFS and marched off to their henchmen for 2 false court assessments. I told these Nazis to save their paper for their 6 monthly court reports because what I read is too deverstating and it pushes me over the edge and at times has given me suicidal thoughts, so they stopped sending me their evil pieces of crap writing. The current social worker is a Black Africian bully, (and no offense to race or creed) but I’ll be buggered if I am going to have him tell me how to raise my children. It’s been 7 long years now, and to this day I have never met with this social worker who I know only as Emanuel. Yesterday he emotionally blackmailed my oldest daughters 18 year old boyfriend, and it has made his mother flipping mad and she’s about to do something about the cruel vindictive bullying and abuse too. She beleives in me and is standing up for me, and is learning about the corrupt sick system. 60 Minuets won’t touch on the issue because of the stupid PRIVACY ACT. I have learnt that CYFFS can breech the PRIVACY ACT anytime they like + over-write the Bill of Human-rights, this is political and a total abuse of power. I see it as the ulimate insult because there are no doubt true cases out there that fall through the cracks. Where were these selfish CYFFS social workers when those nasty thugz murdered poor little Nia Glassie. They knew all about that family! but chose not to act. This makes me even more angry. My 12 year old Gina does not even want to even talk to this social worker anymore because she supports me and sees the light. I would not know that the stolen generation of kiwi kids was happening right now at this very present moment if it had not happened to me, and I will never forgive them for destroying the lives of innocent families and treating them like common criminals. May CYFFS have blood on their hands for ever more as I curse them to the fires of hell. Haidi how are you and your wife doing in Auckland? I would love you 2 to come and visit me again. I will never give up the fight to bring to justice these evil callious social workers who do evil damage inside the corrupt FAMILY COURT. I think that they should change their name to the SS GESTAPO HEADQUARTERS, because they sure act like Hilters cruel murdering Nazis to me. I hope CYFFS rott and stink in hell for all eternity, CYFFS are the lowest form of life on the face of the planet and I hope that they reap what they sow.

  124. Alastair says:

    There is a specialist CYF website at http://www.cyfstalk.org. Don’t worry if it appears down. Overseas server trouble! This is the site Peter Hall (CEO MSD) vowed to do what ever it took to shut it down. That was over a year ago. It’s still going.

  125. Misty Wirangi says:

    hey michelle stewart,

    yeah that very true about nazi and Queen england too both I never worship over nazi and queen england and goverment too make good idea gettig the planning make parent getting hurt over their kids but i know who is fault from egyt old very ago history you know from joshus first king his parent are real but his father tried abuse to joshua but his mum sent on the basket on the boat and the queen from egyt was found to when he was baby cried they are apdoted for him after he was grown up afhter when he was older when he was sought to real his parent ,

    i am tell you not his fault nazi because nazi bad learn from roman was kill to jesus Christ can you remember that why from roman first soilder made it from eygyt was set up change new laws for world they not listen for god and i am tell you roman are normal but nazi want try copy from egyt be like him thy the egypt said no allow they want be egypt own land but i know nazi feel lose it because they are kind jewish with christian are good relationship you know what i mean?

    bible was said told me about them old history are real i believe it you know same like first adam and eve was son from two boy was bad learn from his father was feel anger from eve was ate the apple after body change very anger and one boy was kill from his brother adel died from he was bad learn from his father was abuse from two boys and eve too and same as jesus died too i know not nazi fault i know roman fault make try blame to world and body too.

    and thank you :).

  126. Misty Wirangi says:

    hey michelle stewart,

    yeah that very true about nazi and Queen england too both I never worship over nazi and queen england and goverment too make good idea gettig the planning make parent getting hurt over their kids but i know who is fault from egyt old very ago history you know from joshus first king his parent are real but his father tried abuse to joshua but his mum sent on the bsket on the boat and the queen from egyt was found to when he was baby cried they are apdoted for him after he was grown up afhter when he was older when he was sought to real his parent ,

    i am tell you not his fault nazi because nazi bad learn from roman was kill to jesus Christ can you remember that why from roman first soilder made it from eygyt was set up change new laws for world they not listen for god and i am tell you roman are normal but nazi want try copy for egyt be like him thy the egypt said no allow they want be egypt own land but i know nazi feel lose it because they are kind jewish with christian are good relationship you know what i mean?

    bible was said told me about them old history are real i believe it you know same like first adam and eve was son from two boy was bad learn from his father was feel anger from eve was ate the apple after body change very anger and one boy was kill from his brother adel died from he was bad learn from his father was abuse from two boys and eve too and same as jesus died too i know not nazi fault i know roman fault make try blame to world and body too.

    and thank you :).

  127. abby says:

    Hi in response to cyfs and our baby, i have read your story and was in a similar position to yourselves after an innocent attempt of trying to stop our son from choking, we too were threatened by the police and hospital to own up to something we never did. As we were alone with no family support, we made the fatal decision of agreeing to something we never did, to save our other children from being taken away, unfortunately my partner was sent to prison for 9 months and our children were still taken, we are still fighting to have our children returned home, however now one of the many caregivers (whom can not have children of their own) who my son has been from pillar to post to, are trying to seek custody orders for our son. A senior person in the cyfs office leaked confidential information to these caregivers who are now trying to use against us to keep our son. And now we are going through the court process as cyfs have finally agreed to let our son come home, however the caregivers have been given private psychological assessment reports and for some strange reason are now a part of our proceedings. I mean this is supposedly between us and cyfs, but now these people are involved as they have been leaked private information about us from senior cyfs officials, who i might add are still working for them even though an officail complaint has been made. I urge you to not agree to anything at all, and get copies of all hospital records and go further a field for a second opinion, preferably a doctor not in the same circles as the original doctor, we also had this problem, its amazing how hospitals can lose their records and mri scans etc. yet still help in ruining your life, the same is said about these cyfs workers, majority of them not even have children and are text book youngsters straight out of college. I wish you all the best of luck and you have my support, i hope for your sons sake that you dont miss out on his growing up, like i have had to do. I also suffer depression and it has only worsened since having my son stolen away from me.

  128. patricia powell says:

    I hope you get your son back,i am in the same shoes you are in.

  129. colleen says:

    Hi ,Firstly, i like to tell u how moved i was ,when i read your story, i’m tertiary studies assignment on the two world views of law in this country, namely maori lore versus crown law…..i am south african and have strong whanau values to and never thought this kind of thing happens in a first world country…among other topics to choose from, i least expected that cyfs, which i was pretty unsure of at the begining, up until now,I am deeply shaken by the responses to your stories…more importantly did u get your baby back? I would love some feedback if you have the time.

  130. Yes Colleen, CYFFS here in New Zealand are very EVIL and very CORRUPT, This GESTAPO are causing many suicides, destroying and breaking up families all over New Zealand with their sick perverted lies. They are abusing their unlimited powers, they over-write our Bill of Human Rights, and breech the NZ Privacy Act. CYFFS do this because they have no watch dog authority nor independent complaints set up to challenge them. Lawyers are married to the sick evil corrupt system, and are only interested in making a quick buck. Shrinks and Psychologists reports are also set up and swayed in the Gestapos favour. This is totally bias, these court assessments are rigged and are false. These members of their SS team have a pre-meditated idea of what they are going to write long before you ever walk through their door for assessment. This is the cruel way that the Gestapo draw, quarter and hang their victims. I don’t accept their text book writings and bullshit, and I long for the justice for all the families that suffer because of CYFFS corruption. Council for child lawyers are the worst lawyers in the court room, they do not represent your child’s best interests, but their own selfish pockets. I had one Bitch lie directly to the JUDGE and the JUDGE let her get away with it. They practically laughed me out of the courtroom when I submitted my own papers without the help of any lawyer. I’m 8 years down the track and still I have received no trial/hearing inside the family court, and it does not look like I will ever get one either. I have been convicted by CYFFS without trial and I don’t buy a bar of their lies. One false telephone call by un-named outsiders can turn your life upside down forever, and this false allegation can result in the loss of your children, and you are left without a leg to stand on. Our stories are real and need to be told. Thanks for reading here and god bless.

  131. colleen says:

    Gosh, this must be so hard on you, I am doing an assignment on cyffs and its policies, and how theses practices clash with maori ethics…… i feel so sad for you,and cannot begin to imagine what you must be going through.Is it at all possible to quote your situation in my presentation, as after reading so many stories , i feel that yours most genuine and one that i have become so affected by….I am ” studying bi-cultural studies by the way, with my end destination being Psychology…Do you get to see your child and if so how often. please stay strong and be positive, as positivity breeds positivity….

  132. Thanks Colleen. The most ridiculous that without trial I got granted unlimited unsupervised access to all of my 3 children, not being allowed to challenge the lies of CYFFS and their false accusers. My oldest daughter is now 17 and she has never been under the lying prying eye of the GESTAPO. I have never committed any kind of crime, yet CYFFS have framed me and made out that I am the dirtiest criminal on the face of the Earth. They like to think I am capable of harming my babies, like hell, this is more than a cruel insult to a solo mother who battled alone for 10 years until my number in the CYFFS department came up. They hounded me even before the birth of my first baby, because of false allegations and told the court that I am totally incapable of caring for my children. CYFFS put the knife in and twist all the positives into negatives. I feel for anyone who suffers at the hands of CYFFS. I’m still very proud of my 3 children and I would gladly give my life for them. CYFFS can’t hurt me or my children anymore. To hell with these vile cruel NAZIS

  133. Christien Rudolph says:

    Hi parents,

    I too would just like to say ” do not own up too something that you did not do ” at the end of the day we are just human beings that actually do have accidents and are clumsy. Thats how god made us! I believe in right and wrong and what this department has forgotten is that margority of us aren’t child abusers.
    This goverment have seem to forgoten that they don’t actually own us. They never made us, meaning they dont own you or me or our families, so how can they dictate to us and seperate our families because they think they asume whats going on, when we are not friends with them and they are not involved in our lives. Stand up and fight say “no” you arent letting them do this to you. Fight them as hard as you can and do what you need to get your family back together again as it should be. If i were your mate i would be there right beside you and your wife.

    I am as well just heading for the same battle as i have just found my brothers son that is has been in their care for 18years and we had know idea that he even exsisted. My family are fuming. Not once in 18 years did they even have the courteousy to let us know that he was ours. Beat’n up till he was 8years old everyday by carers, then moved to 32 other homes. I am appaulled and we are going into fight. So i will be doing my damdest to show them right from wrong and standing up for all whom deserve it in this country!!!! I promise.

    You do the same ” you will win ” Have faith in you and your family that will be, if you mistakinglin marked your baby by stopping him from falling, well thats what you did. Don’t own up to something you didnt do!!! You are a good parent for stopping your baby from getting hurt seriously and parent would of acted in that very same way and i mean any one, you ,me, the politicans everyone.

    Gather your strength and fight for your family my friend.

    Regards

    Christien Rudolph
    Maori from the Northland

  134. Josephine.K says:

    I am going to start a facebook page fo this shit…. F**K I HATE CYFS I AM ONLY A 20yr OLD MOTHER AND THEY TRYING TO TAKE HER(my daughter) AWAY FROM ME…..

    why so they can molest beat and bring up criminals in their cyfs houses…

    Add to facebook to fight cyfs now!!!! not never we need these stories publisised put in letterboxes and let the people know what can happen to decent caring parents

    Josephine.K

  135. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Josephine

    Whoa..!!!..Calm down Josephine,and I know easier said then done,I can tell you are very upset and please heed my words here …If you do that on ‘Facebook’ the C.Y.F.S can use your so called Face book comments in court that is not going to look good for you, or your partner…Get my drift….Do have a Lawyer representing you….??????????

    John Dutchie

  136. Hans Laven says:

    Re post under Josephine.K. We all realise that the post could have been placed by anyone, e.g. someone wanting to get the real Josephine K into trouble. If the real Josephine K reads this, I would recommend she make email contact with individuals here to discuss her case and seek advice and support. There are closed email support groups available for such support. Do not reply on this site to the post purporting to be from Josephine.K, because this site is open, read and monitored by various agencies and individuals hostile to men and families. Anything posted here is likely to be used against you.

  137. Alastair says:

    Josaphine, visit http://www.cyfstalk.org join up. Heaps of support, and advice. Best of all it’s an off shore server, you can, within limits, say what you like!

  138. Michelle Lee Stewart says:

    John dear, where have you been. Lawyers are nothing more than a bloody cruel joke as far as I’m concerned. They take your money and do a fat diddley squat nothing. Can anyone introduce me to a Lawyer who stands against those lying CYFFS Gestapo bullies from hell because I have never met a lawyer that ever disagrees with those Nazi CYFFS scumb-bags. I would sure like to meet a Lawyer that would have the guts and the morals to stand up to CYFFS and expose them for all of their rotten nasty cruel lies and slander. You are right Jo, they do destroy innocent caring parents and they leave the real rotters alone. Nothing CYFFS say is ever true or positive. I hope that CYFFS choke on their dirty stinking lies and burn in the fires of hell forever

  139. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Michelle

    Hi Michelle,first off,a warm welcome to you for posting on ‘Menz’ and I hope more Woman join and debate and post there opinions too…More the merrier…

    Yes there is quite a bit of truth in your statement.

    However Michelle I do a quite a bit of consulting work for some good,honest decent and very passionate Barristers who strive for justice and ‘A fair deal’…for there clients

    And all of them who I work for have no problems on taking on so called ‘Establishment’
    …I can think of one straight away that as a great and awesome attitude on taking those ‘[email protected]#king Nazis’…To quote his words, not mine…..

    Kind regards to Michelle and hope you post more often on Menz…….So refreshing to hear a Lady that says what she thinks, and doesn’t mince her words..Kudos to you …John Dutchie

  140. Michelle Lee Stewart says:

    John that was a wonderful note, and it’s given me a lot more hope. Thanks so much for your very uplifting words. I sure would love to meet a Lawyer that stands against this modern day GESTAPO, CYFFS. I never realized this kind of thing was going on until it happened to me. CYFFS are so full of it, and far too much power. CYFFS are the real abusers. I was doing OK raising my family by myself until those assholes stuck their noses into my life and listened to the most disgusting lies that I have ever heard. CYYFS SS NAZIS bullied my mother and put words into her mouth that she never did say. They insulted her and told her that because she lives in Nelson and I live in Hamilton that she doesn’t know what’s going on. They were rude and hurtful to anyone who put in a good character reference for me, including my own GP. I got branded seriously mentally impaired and they say that I might harm my children. Not that I ever had or ever will. It’s just mere speculation on their part if you ask me or anyone who knows me. It’s not what I have done, it’s what they say I might do, wow have these witches got a crystal ball – can they see into the future? I know that they crossed files and put someone elses personal information on my file, this person had the same first name & surname as myself but a different birth date. Isn’t that a breech of the privacy act? Can’t I sue them for this? In reality I don’t even fit the criteria for a mental heath assessment and even if I did is this an excuse to uplift your children? CYFFS and all their Nazi Bastard Squad make me want to puke!!!!! My children know that CYFFS lie through their teeth.

  141. SicKofNZ says:

    Hi Michelle, I think you’re being far too kind with your assessment of CYFS. They are much much worse than you describe them. I have known CYFS social workers to be the worst liars and child abusers and I have even experienced a social worker from CYFS stealing my personal property. Of course I shamed the prick who was forced by my Insurance Company to either return my property or pay for a replacement.
    You are accurate when you accuse CYFS of being the real abusers. In fact I wrote a letter of complaint some months back where I accused them of being merely an extension of an abuser, where they react to malicious notifications and then continue the abuse that was previously meted out by that malicious individual.
    It is good that your children realise that CYFS social workers are so dishonest. You have smart kids. I believe that CYFS are useless, incompetent, dishonest, manipulating filth. They pretend that they do what they do because they care about children … BULLSH!T. They do it for INCOME. Stop paying the cretins and see just how many show up to care about our children. It’s ALL about money!
    Don’t take their sh!t! Stand your ground. The law allows them to have Power & Control over kids, not adults!
    You’ll get some good advice and support from http://www.cyfswatch.org as suggested by Alastair above.

  142. Steven says:

    Hi there – Yes you can sue them, for Slander. You will find you might get quite far with that too. I hope you do so.

  143. Alastair says:

    Steven, they can and will defend any action of defamation with privilidge unless you can PROOVE vindictiveness against you. (Can’t think of the exact wording) It’s the same defence that a traffic cp uses when he pulls you up. You may be able to show he is wrong, But provided he (the cop) can show he had resonable cause thet is the end of the matter.

  144. Scott B says:

    all these departments look after each other.

  145. LYn says:

    Hi Bernie

    I am a sad grandmother, as we had a family group conference today, and my daughter was told she is going to have her baby taken from birth, a little girl. They say she hasn’t changed, and we know that she has. They look into the past and keep coming up with this stuff. My daughter has changed, and is stable, goes to drug and alcohol counselling. We told them my husband and I would be prepared to move in with her, to support her, but they said that would not stop the baby being taken from birth and fostered out. What can we do? It is going to court, after she has had baby.

  146. Ford says:

    cypfs shouldnt be allowed to step in where other family members are prepared to step…that sux…arseholes

  147. Ford says:

    step in and take over i meant to say

  148. concerned father says:

    OMFG Another CYFS horror story.
    CYFSwatch and PANIC are full of them, now I am discovering the multitude posted here and am gravely concerned for my daughter now that CYFS are involved.

  149. Michelle Stewart says:

    Yep you sure need to be highly concerned, because once these evil lying Nazi pigs (CYFFS) sink their vampires fangs into your child and draw their blood out, slowly and cruelly, there’s no stopping them injecting more of their evil festering lies. Never trust CYFFS in a million years, NEVER!!! EVER!!!!!!!
    Seems the GESTAPO need no actual proof to justify their cause of being there in the first place. Children are removed on here-say and speculation. CYFFS are the epitomey of all evil. I hope that CYFFS rot in hell for all eternity.

  150. Michelle Stewart says:

    ….. and as for their false court assessments that are drawn up by their lying femi-fascist Nazi brigade. What a check they have got to use tax payers money to pay off these wanker shrinks, psychologists, and child counsel lawyers to put the icing on their smelly cakes and railroad anyone unfortunate to walk through their doors. Talk about an insult to ones own intelligence. These dirty rotten shrinks and psychologists and all their wankey cronies need to keep their income good, so they will write the most bullshit negative reports, CYFFS pay, the court orders, and those wankers will write whatever CYFFS want them to write so that they can justify their wicked lies, then the judge just puts a rubber stamp on their orders. The whole sick system is so perverted and corrupt. Seems to me that CYFFS no longer want REAL MOTHERS and REAL FATHERS to parent their children. BURN CYFFS BURN in the fires of hell!!!!!

  151. julie says:

    Hi Michelle, have you been lurking quietly in the wings? Do you comment somewhere else about these issues?

  152. Michelle Stewart says:

    yeah I do Julie on the CYFFSTALK FORUMS. I hate these Nazis because they have destroyed my family and 1000’s of other innocent families throughout New Zealand. Interesting watching the 60 minuets doco interviewing Celia Laslie, she said that out of the 3-4000? cases she knows of, 500 of those cases are bad parents, as for the rest of them she can find no reason on Earth why these Mothers & Fathers can’t raise and parent their children. The law looks pretty and perfect on paper, but I’m thinking it’s like comm-unionism, when put into practice it does not work as the ones governing become corrupt and drunk on their own power. This modern day GESTAPO needs to be exposed for their gutter-snipe lies, corruption and crimes against humanity. My 2 girls are both OK, They are both safe and doing well, but CYFFS have destroyed and fucked my 11 year old son up for life. I will never get back what I once had with him and the way he’s going right now he’s heading towards joining a gang, all thanks to CYFFS. Don’t forget that CYFFS have raised the worst killers in New Zealand.

  153. julie says:

    Hi Concerned Father, there are also other sites where you can access stories AND support.

    There’s CYFSTALK, then there’s Daniel Ryder & The fight for mens Rights In the Welfare and justice systems, as well as Graeme Axford & Child, Youth & Family (CYF), accountability? and I can’t miss out Paul’s news (anyone wanting to access this group needs to join Yahoo groups). Thanks for mentioning Panic because I didn’t know they still existed.

    Oh, just found CYFSTALK message-board on facebook.

  154. julie says:

    Thank-you for your reply Michelle, (Firstly), Welcome! 🙂

    Gosh, I’m stuck for words. I want to say, “You poor woman”. I’ve got a CYFS story also and had the same worries for my sons and wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

    I think it’s terrific there’s many of us wanting to do something about CYFS and the way they treat families and am hoping to connect with others so we can push for changes.

    Can I contact you off site? Where do you live in NZ?

  155. Michelle Stewart says:

    Hi Julie. Thanks for your wonderful reply. Your an extra special blessing. But please, (no offense OK) don’t feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for the kids, but not me. I am well aware that these lying CYFFS mongrels have done far worse to other families all across New Zealand. I will give you my landline number Juile if you can e-mail me here at my usual address:
    michelle_lee@xtra.co.nz. I look forward to hearing with you and sharing more. All the best, Michelle.

  156. Michelle Stewart says:

    oh know i just see that the underscore does not show up in the link, it’s between the last e in michelle and the first l in lee

    michelle_lee michelle then put in underscore_ then add lee @xtra.co.nz all lowercase and no spaces, thanks

  157. Tracy Harold says:

    Michelle, love you sweetie, you’re a great mum! Heresay sux. I second your opinions and testify that you speak the truth.

  158. tracy-angel says:

    in Jesus name, amen.

  159. tracy-angel says:

    What a brilliant piece of writing michelle-gurl! – (so descriptive!) I am having sooo much fun! reading…and agreeing…and laughing!
    I promise you michelle, next time I comment here I will say something informatively supportive, of this wonderful cause to expose fascist infiltration into our neighbor loving nation.
    No, never trust CYFS, they are just one tentacle of the NAZI MENACE MACHINE…heads will roll.

  160. Rain says:

    You are NOT alone!!

    Right now green to CYFS rules and acts they go by when accusing families of NAIs Im looking up OUR rights to prove our innocense, we have 2 children taken off due to the same reason as you, took our child into hospital to see what the cause of baby being unsettled was, to find out the dad is being arrested, he was held for 3 weeks without rights.

    Lets bond together to show CYFs that they really need to define abuse from accident WE can all HELP each other.

    On the day baby the 3rd baby was born they showed up to take him straight from the delivery room, that is like baby napping, taking new borns from their parents and taken into foster care(strangers) some confidence builders they are arent they…

    What can we all do? Feel free to email me or reply we are on your side in this unjustified ordeal, I dont want the health of my daughter to wind in depression

  161. Rachael Ella says:

    Shite!! This is like a nightmare! Im so sorry to hear about your child being taken away…in these cases its just awful that we arent protected by the law, they need to be focusing on the kids in real danger…its the baddies out there that have made it so hard for us good parents. Everyone knows that with babes accidents occur, and that the parents feel guilty enough when they do. When my 2year old fell off the bed once, I felt so guilty, and paranoid…but every mother ive spoken to say the same thing, that kids cant be bubble-wrapped, and no matter what a parent does there will always be accidents.

  162. Bruce S says:

    Hi Rachael and Rain; take a look at the date of the original post here, over 5 and a half years ago!!! yet the CYFS reign of terror still persists. Parents have very limited rights when battling the collusion between the family court and CYFS.

    We all know that parenting has it’s perils; more often than not family law and CYFS fail to recognize that kids have accidents without parental assistance. Yet CYFS have this totally subjective view of what constitutes abuse; in fact the definition they use for abuse is so ridiculously vague and nebulous that 99.9% of parents in New Zealand would qualify as serial child abusers. The secret is not to get caught. Once caught for being a parent, you are automatically categorized as a criminal by CYFS, the family court and society. The proof of innocence is on you.

    So five and a half years on, New Zealand parents have demonstrated their incapacity to demand change to CYFS and family law. We all dutifully trudge along to the polling booths on election day, tick the boxes and ignore the fact that we’ve just endorsed and sanctioned another erosion of the rights of parents to raise their kids without government interference.

  163. Barry says:

    been put through the ringer myself. Not much fun these cyfs crowd. Just tried complaining and hoped for a day in court to show the world how bad these social workers really are, but i was just kidding mysrelf ,they wriggeled and squired for 6 months untill my step daughter turned 16 then got the judge to pass her on to her grand mother in australia, since my gardianship had expired then they withdrew all orders awaiting a hearing against me. No day in court.The complaint system is a joke when you consider the people processing it are the same ones you Are complaining about. So then you think to your self ,ill complain to the social workers registration board, right. Wrong. It apears that none of the front line social workers are registered. could it be they are not qualified? or worse, because they dont want to be registered so they dont have to answer to any body.There is a web site for the new zealand social workers registration board and you can check to see if your social workers are registered. what do you think you will find?

  164. Ford says:

    #167..are you really keen to hang out with fellow dead brainers?..most are brain dead yet you wish to follow what they have to say..interesting ..i think youll find most on here have a few more clues than that

  165. M.ratapu says:

    Feel so sorry for you CYFS COPS COURTS LAWYERS are in this together as they are all friends with each other they should all be castrated and buried as they6 destroy our families and our children

Leave a Reply

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

Skip to toolbar