MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

No Female Police Commissioners

Filed under: Boys / Youth / Education,Child Support,Domestic Violence,General,Law & Courts,Men's Health — Downunder @ 10:22 am Wed 14th September 2005

As the push continues to fill the top jobs with women – (and we would be blind if we couldn’t see that, and dumb if we were convinced otherwise), then we must be prepared to accept the consequences. Of the big mistakes we could make in the next three years, one would be to appoint a female Police Commissioner.

Feminism is a strong ideology that did not factor in the possibility that if you change the rules people may not want to, or even feel able to play the game any longer. Dealing as I have done over the last 6 years with the sharp end of the wedge and what are often referred to as “just disaffected men” there is a clear sense of disillusionment that is quite disabling. I do not see men making a bitter and deliberate decision not to participate, but rather that the average kiwi male does not recover from the shock of having his life tipped upside down overnight. Men as we know are not always good at sharing their feelings; however I have extracted part of a recent email that I received which I think is indicative of what I sense in many men.

As a kiwi, I feel let down by legislation that robs me of my rights, hurts me, isn’t fair, and penalises my children.

If I could bear to leave my children, I’d be on the first plane out of here. I used to have a strong work ethic – now work is somewhere. I’m going no where and I despair. I have become bitter, I do not feel any sense of national pride…actually I’ve grown to hate this country and the politicians that have stitched me up. I know what its like to feel trapped and powerless and it drives me to consider things that I normally wouldn’t think of.

None of the major political parties are interested.

In terms on managing a society, we must appreciate that a very strong part of the individual male role is collectively contained in our Police Force. 20 years ago there was huge resistance amongst the conservative male leadership of the Police to the increasing role of women in the Police. While there may have been room for increased participation in retrospect I believe their fears have been realized.

At a time when we have to look to recruiting overseas and to increasing female participation in the police force to maintain currently inadequate number, then it is time for us to have a more critical evaluation of our community which cannot willingly provide the best candidates for one of our most important roles in society.

Public and Political attacks on the police force often undermine individual officers who give more than 100% to their position, however no matter how many good officers make a genuine contribution, there are three other factors besides recruitment that will continue to undermine our Police Force. The first is Government Policy, the second is Training, but the most essential element is Leadership.

You can call me sexist, bigoted, biased, or anything else that takes your fancy, but I doubt you find a convincing argument supporting the appointment of a female Police Commissioner to resurrect the Police Force from its current regrettable position

Bevan Berg
NZ Republicans


  1. Bevan,

    I have refrained from commenting about your recent posts up until now.

    You have filed this item under “Child Support”, but it has ABSOLUTELY no relevance to child support.

    In point of fact, I am struggling to see where it is even vaguely relevant to any of the MENZ categories you have selected (for example, “Men’s Health”, “Boys/Youth/Education”).

    I watch MENZ quite closely and especially seek out Child Support issues, because so many parents (not just Fathers) are afflicted with this draconian legislation and I believe knowledge in this area is important when assisting victims of CS.

    Posts like this one frustrate and infuriate me because they impede my locating the specific posts of direct interest to me.

    This post seems to have no relevance to the MENZ forum and perhaps you should be posting it somewhere else?

    Regards, Mark Shipman

    Comment by MarkS — Wed 14th September 2005 @ 12:30 pm

  2. For many men currently paying child support they would be very familiar with the Police Policy of arrest and remove the male at domestics disputes regardless of fault.
    And for the youth of today I would have to ask, what has changed – When I was young I was one of 80 trainess selected from several hundred candidates.
    How many young children saw the police remove their father when they could clearly see he didn’t cause the problem.
    In fact he may well have been their only real security.
    What we demand from our politicians and what we vote for is as much about a complete functioning society as it is about specific reform. As you are the only one complaining about my postings I will take that you either have an isolated point or you feel more comfortable with your association with another political party.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Wed 14th September 2005 @ 1:30 pm

  3. I agree with you Mark that Bevan may have been a little over-enthusiastic about adding categories.

    The post itself however is definitely on-topic for MENZ Issues.

    Comment by JohnP — Wed 14th September 2005 @ 4:01 pm

  4. Sorry John, but it’s not a question of over enthusiasm on the part of Mr Berg. Mr Shipman is right on point. I find Mr Berg’s posts to be almost unreadable, somewhat casuistical, and certainly dubious as to purpose.

    Posts like this have the potential to undermine the legitimate and imperative cause of Mr Shipman (and thousands of other liable parents) in seeking reform of the CS Act and the way in which it is administered.

    Mr Berg’s post certainly does not belong under this category,and I seriously doubt whether it is of any value to this site at all.

    Comment by John Self — Fri 16th September 2005 @ 10:35 pm

  5. Dear John Self,

    Are you suggesting that my post was a matter of conscience, religion, or principle, and if it is dubious in its nature then perhaps regale us with the depth of your considered opinion?

    You are suggesting that I am undermining the legitimate and imperative cause of those seeking reform of the CS Act and the way in which it is administered. Pray, do tell me what I have done wrong.

    It appears in your opinion, that my opinion is unworthy; please direct me to some of your postings so that my thinking may be enhanced by your superior wisdom.
    And with regard to my post I quote: I seriously doubt whether it is of any value to this site at all. So tell us then what the values of this site are?

    And last of all, if I looked into your eyes would I see the space between your ears.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Sat 17th September 2005 @ 2:09 am

  6. Mr Berg,

    I cannot help but feel a sense of deja vu when I read your opinions. There’s a certain John-Mitchell-at-a-media-conference quality about them: despite the toe-curling piffle no one doubted his own self-belief.

    Your logic often piles assumption upon assumption, a small example being in your response to Mr Shipman’s comments above, and in so doing you detract from whatever it is you are trying to say or point you are trying to make.

    Might I suggest that a website or blog run by a group of highly politicised feminists (or the like) would be a far more suitable place to post your opinions. Gender focus aside, you write and reason in a very similar way to them, so it would make for an entertaining back-and-forth.

    Good luck!

    Comment by John Self — Sat 17th September 2005 @ 10:14 am


    "Two Years ago I was National Present of Union of Fathers
    In two years time you will look back and say I was National President on Parents for children.

    The difference will be is that the coffee will smell the same to you then as it does to me now.

    Don’t worry about replying, just store it for two years, and then in two years we can chew the fat over a beer.

    Cheers Bevan."


    Thanks for this email. I feel it is very important to share this with the rest of MENZ in its original form.

    You have made two basic and very crass mistakes in your email.

    First, you have no idea how much I enjoy coffee and, hence, just how the coffee might smell to me now or in the future. As an aside, I’m certain my coffee smells much better now than yours ever will [because this is so completely subjective].

    Second, I posted to you as an individual infuriated by your scatter-gun categorisation in this and a number of other posts, but you chose to email me [quite pointedly] about my involvement with Parents for Children.

    I’ll close this with a request that you pretty-pretty-please endeavour to be a little more objective in your categorisation of your posts to MENZ in the future. Then, when you post something under “child support”, everyone will know without reading that it actually is relevant to child support!

    Thanks in advance,

    Mark Shipman

    Comment by MarkS — Sun 18th September 2005 @ 10:08 pm

  8. Put your toys back in the cot Mate. Attacking me isn’t doing anything for Parents for Children, or the credibitility of the National President of a growing organisation that wants to represent men in relation to child support. Your behaviour represents to me that you are most probably not an independant organisation representing men, but already aligned with a political party. It is my experience that this is the most divisive factor afflicting what might be described as the mens movement. If you think I’ve got it so very wrong, then try dissecting me with some facts and reason, instead of adopting the use of the most primitive of political tools – discredit.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Mon 19th September 2005 @ 9:25 am

  9. Bevan,

    1)Parents for Children is not a men’s organisation. It is a parents organisation.
    Child Support reform is a parent and child issue not a mens issue.
    2)Parents for Children are not aligned with any political party. Extensive lobbying is conducted with all political parties and relationships well established with them.
    3)Mark is perfectly entitled to his personal opinion and to comment as he sees fit.

    If you value “facts and reason” then please check your facts before being unreasonable.


    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Mon 19th September 2005 @ 11:11 am

  10. Thanks James, you have clarified a couple of things there for us, but just in relation to number 3, are there some facts in relation to child support I have got wrong, and is there something specifically, that I am being unreasonable about.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Mon 19th September 2005 @ 11:53 am

  11. Bevan and Mark,

    Looking at the nature of the email MarkS has made available to us, it seems the pot should not be calling the kettle black.

    You have made a number of posts recently under a banner “NZ Republicans”, which I’m assuming is a political party that you support (happy to be shown to be wrong).

    I also went to the Parents for Children web site to check Scrap_The_CSA’s comment and they are indeed not orientated towards either Fathers or Mothers, but looking for a better result for all of our children.

    As a separated parent, this is something I wholeheartedly agree with.

    As individuals, you and Mark both have opinions, but I must agree that attempting to paint what was obviously an individual’s concern to be that of an organisation seems a little odd from where I sit.

    But, to both of you, get with the programme!

    We parents all need to be pushing in the same direction. If you are unable to resolve your differences, then please take them elsewhere and exert a little more self-discipline on MENZ.

    Regards, Yet-another-separated-Dad

    Comment by Sparx — Mon 19th September 2005 @ 11:59 am

  12. Sparx, hear, hear!

    Comment by Ethos — Mon 19th September 2005 @ 12:54 pm

  13. I agree fully with the comments made about the cops who automatically arrest the male during domestics. I’d like to bring attention to one particular piece of police shit -CONSTABLE DION JENSEN of PALMERSTON NORTH. This constable is a complete asshole as well as a perjurer, liar and unpleasant piece of police filth who is one of the asswipes who takes delight in this practice.

    Comment by walter — Sat 19th November 2005 @ 1:12 am

  14. In referrence to the comments below may I remind you that the “current regrettable position”, of our Police force is under the the management of the male gender. I also fail to see what relivance this articile has to do with Child Support advise, which I was seeking.
    “You can call me sexist, bigoted, biased, or anything else that takes your fancy, but I doubt you find a convincing argument supporting the appointment of a female Police Commissioner to resurrect the Police Force from its current regrettable position”.

    Comment by R Lawson — Tue 20th June 2006 @ 4:11 pm

  15. Hello R, Lawson,

    I hope so much that you get this feedback.

    The police. Well they are not supposed to take the law into their own hands. They are just puppets. Do you not think they want to police as the situation calls for, but they can’t. Don’t you see that?

    Before you speak about them, please know them as indivduals and as a group. Don’t you wonder why they have addiction problems and emotional problems and marriage problems? Theirs is the worst because they cannot tell the normal people that they feel the same. They cannot show their ideas or emotions. Set them free to tell their stories before you comment please. (I beg of you)

    Do you not think taking a man from his own home does not affect them or make them look at thier own family situation?

    If you want to fight, fight for them. They deserve the laws, the polititions the whole system to think men worthwhile and they deserve to be treated as women police are treated.

    Comment by julie — Tue 20th June 2006 @ 4:58 pm

  16. Now that we’ve experienced a female police commissioner, Coster could bite the bullet and let the men get on with the job.

    Comment by Downunder — Tue 30th January 2024 @ 3:22 pm

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