Is there any recourse I can take
I hope someone more knowledgable than me can offer some advice to Mike:
Hi, my name is Mike, I am a father of two girls who live with their mum and I have them every weekend.
I have always paid my child support, even after I fell ill in August 04, with a serious stress related illness. I worked in the film industry and I was in the highest income bracket and I was at times paying over $1500 a month in child support. I was off work for 3 months and because my income was high I recieved no sickness benifet or ACC, being self employed.
I didn’t get any sick pay either. I decided to change my life after that contract finished. I spent another three months off work and underwent a futher two major operations, once again no support from any Goverment agency.
I tried get them to give me a break with my payments during this time when I had no income but they wouldnt, so I stopped paying! When I got my tax return from my accountant for the period ending Mar 06 I went and saw them and tried to sort it out. After expenses I earned just $15,000 for the year!
Yesterday I recieved a statment from them and they now want $30,000 in arrears!!!!!!!!
I can’t believe that they can do this to people, I have had a gutsful of this crap and I can understand how men can snap and go and do crazy things, is there any recourse I can take for the stress that they are putting me under?
Reply for Mike
Blood cannot be got from a stone so don’t stress and debtors prisons for Child Support arrears have not arrived in NZ, yet!
I will require a little more detail as to what steps have been taken to date, documentation of admin reviews if any, who you have contacted at IRD and written reply, etc….
Happy to help if I can, contact [email protected] or Tel (09) 940 6236
Kind Regards
Paul
Comment by Paul Catton — Sat 9th September 2006 @ 4:41 pm
Hi mike.I fully sympathise.I am currently also wondering how to keep up with my child support payments I need advice too.I have no idea if it is any good as a last resort.Declare yourself bankrupt? or in sheer desparation;quietly sell up and disappear to a country you can disappear in;costa rica ;etc;But can you leave your beautiful children?I am having an episode of “major depression’ at present over it and professional care.So my ideas are the ideas of a desparate crazy man.My daughter is 10 and lives with her mother who has married a rich sucker and I am teetering on the edge in every way.My support matches exactly the repayments on her new car.I love my daughter dearly and would probably crack without her.Good luck my friend.
Comment by keith — Sat 9th September 2006 @ 5:35 pm
After reading the NZ herald editorial last week I have some good advice for him. He probably does not know it at this stage but he has a virus worse than AIDS. His case is terminal. His life is now going to be snuffed out by an evil and ignorant system. He can take the choice of going slowly and painfully or take his own life quickly and painlessly through euthanasia. I would have suggested that he also takes a bureaurocrat with him when he goes but it’s a bloody hard thing to do when you are not as bloody minded as those bureaucratic misandric pricks who place us in this unbearable situation.
I am thinking of immigrating to Iraq in order to feel safe. God its depressing to see good fathers being treated so badly without having the power to help.
When the herald with all its resources chose to print such an ignorant editorial it took the wind right out of my sails. I wish Mike well and all the luck in the world…….he will need it!!!!.
Comment by triassic — Sat 9th September 2006 @ 7:29 pm
I assume you are not serious, but this is not good advice, Triassic. Fathers placed under extreme stress like this are quite often having difficulty thinking rationally, hence my reply to Mikes email:
…whereupon your girls don’t get to see their dad any more.
Most men in your position (and I’ve met hundreds) feel “pushed to the edge” at times, so be re-assured your feelings are completely normal. However you do need to take steps to make sure that your stress doesn’t lead to stupid decisions – getting in contact with other sympathetic men is your best bet in my experience.
Comment by JohnP — Sat 9th September 2006 @ 9:02 pm
I second John P advice. There are millions of men suffering as you in the west. You are not alone, now go find some men who will tell it to you in person. Later you can help the cause of our time.
Comment by Intrepid — Sat 9th September 2006 @ 9:32 pm
Mike, my advice is don’t worry about it. The IRD will use psychological warfare to try and extract money from you. That is what we pay them to do through our taxes. Ironic isn’t it!! The more they can extract from you with hollow threats, the better they are at their job and the quicker they get promoted and the more they earn. Think about it!!!!
Pay what you can for your girls. Even if it is only a small amount. If you were with their mother, the circumstances would be the same, and your daughters would be affected by the changes in your income.
They have been trying it on with me for nearly a year now. They haven’t got a cent from me. However, I do send money to my daughter and I have paid for quite a bit for her in the past. No-one can say that I don’t support my daughter. I would whether I was seperated from her mother or not. That is irrelevant. I want to support my child and that is all their is to it. I’m a parent and I act like one.
The IRD demands are just a piece of paper with some ink on it. I cannot believe the rubbish they send out to me. It is meaningless drivel. Wrong date of birth, no name on it, like Child Support for who?
You need to put any assets you may have in a company name or family trust. Don’t own a thing. Talk to a good accountant. Route all income through a company or other legal entity as and when you get back on your feet. You can play by the rules and get the whole thing to a level where it is inconsequential.
Best wishes. Steve.
Comment by Steve W — Sun 10th September 2006 @ 12:34 pm
Greeting all. I hope no one minds that I place this excellent article by our elected member of parliament, Murial Newman. I’m copying it here because can’t find how to place a new article. Although it doesn’t relate completely to the topic of discussion here,Admin: No, it doesn’t, and I do mind so I’ve deleted it.
If you read the rules you will find a link to the registration form at the bottom of the page.
The rules do not allow re-publication of material written by others (which is probably copyright). You are encouraged to review relevant articles, providing a link to the site where they originate, and you may quote a parragraph or so.
If you want to support Muriel it is far better for her that you generate a link to her site when she writes a new article relevant to MENZ.
Comment by Frank — Sun 10th September 2006 @ 2:09 pm
Reality is that it penalties are easy to get agrrement to remit.So if a big chunk of the debt is made up of penalties you have a good chance of getting them remitted. (Getting them to do it and understanding the challenges of reconcilliation of figures is another issue!)
What they call “core debt” is what you should be worried about, the non penalty debt.
You need to find out in black and white why you are in debt. What has increased the assessment? Is it an end of year reconcilliation? Is it the result of admin review? Is it a result of being self employed and not choosing to estimate income and being assessed on income from two years ago?
Its important to know what causes you being in debt as this can limit your options.
Get IRD to provide a reconcilliation of the account and see how the debt accured.
Point to note : HOw does a liable parent suddenly get a assessment that tells them they are 30,000 dollars in debt?
You should be aware IRD has restructred and debt is now being handled, not by a specialised section but a general team.They will treat it like any other tax debt and once the current admendment is passed they will rapidly earn a reputation for being brutally efficent.
Note your situation is all too common.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Sun 10th September 2006 @ 3:48 pm
Here is what I have spent some of my aftenoon doing. Trying to get documents relating to a fraudulent child support case logged by my ex in a case in the big brown land down under, no name mentioned, passed to the Sl*t Support Agency for collection here. Right on….She owes me money, not the other way round, but the Sl*t Support Agency over there just denies it or ignores it. All good clean healthy fun…..I have edited the document to remove names, dates and personal references, but you will get the picture. I have no hope whatsoever of getting documents that prove hers or their fraud, or both, but it is nice to know we live in countries where we are all equal under the law, just that some are far more equal than others….good for a laugh anyway, and I get to practice my touch typing. If you think you have got it rough, I have to deal with the cretins in 2 countries..
Subject: Invalid Freedom of Information request
I acknowledge receipt of your correspondence dated xxth xxxxx xxxx entitled ‘Invalid Freedom of Information request’.
In recent correspondence from S. K., CSA Acting State manager for (what a state!!!) , he states that paper copies of the documents I requested have been disposed of.
I have requested to be advised as to when and where these documents were disposed of?
I have not received a reply.
I have also requested that the electronic copies of these documents be forwarded to me under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 1982.
The documents I require are:
The original Child Support Assessment application made by your client circa xxxx
Any supporting or corroborating documents lodged with the Big Brown Land Child Support Agency in support of your clients application.
The alledged agreement number xxxxxxx between your client and I lodged at xxx xxx CSA on xx/xx/xxxx
The alledged agreement between your client and I referred to in CSA correspondence dated xxxxxx.
Before making any payment for requested documents as may be required under the Freedom of Information Act 1982, would you please advise whether the above mentioned documents do in fact exist, in either electronic or paper format?
Can you also please advise how payment is made and or accepted as required under the Act for the release of the disposed documents? Are credit card payments acceptable?
However, I also request under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 1982, remission of any fees payable on the grounds that release of the disposed of documents are made available on the grounds that access to the disposed of documents is in the public interest or a substantial section of the public.
In compliance with the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 1982, please email the disposed of documents to the address in the Big Brown Land at [email protected] and, or, to:
Any address will do
In the big brown desert
What a State !!!!
Big Brown Land
I have cc’d this email correspondence to the Rt. Hon. xxx xxx, Minister for XXXXXX Services, in the event the Child Support Agency dispose of it.
Yours Sincerely,
Another poor sod who has no rights….
E&OE.
Comment by SteveW — Sun 10th September 2006 @ 6:12 pm
Hi Mike,
I’m in a similar situation as you. I don’t have an income enough to pay what IRD have accessed me to pay. According to them I’m in the red big time through their corrupt admin reviews. I suggest you have a look at the objects of the child support act on the Govt web site. This is (d) under objects.
(d) To provide that the level of financial support to be provided by parents for their children is to be determined according to their capacity to provide financial support:
Then look up what the job of the commisioner of IRD is.
(3) In collecting the taxes committed to the Commissioner’s charge, and not withstanding anything in the Inland Revenue Acts, it is the duty of the Commissioner to collect over time the highest net revenue that is practicable within the law having regard to- and so it goes on.
So therefore Child support must be considered a Tax.
Then look at section 96I (5)
Section 96I(5)”Any hearing before the Commissioner, and any inquiry or investigation carried out by the commissioner, is to be carried out as the Commissioner thinks fit and the Commissioner is not bound by any rules of evidence.”
I no longer believe in their stupid system that’s the only relief I get.
I am interested if you or any one else can make any progress forward or your comments so that we can force a fair system through what is already in place. Network positively!
Comment by Phoenix — Mon 11th September 2006 @ 11:54 am
Let me know if you need a good accountant.
Cheers
Comment by Phoenix — Mon 11th September 2006 @ 11:57 am
while we are on this topic.. can child support be “demanded” if no separation order between parents exists?..
Comment by starr — Mon 11th September 2006 @ 1:08 pm
Short answer is yes (assuming you are living apart from the other parent)
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Mon 11th September 2006 @ 4:17 pm
traffic fines and child support and petrol tax are prime examples of a dictataroship, akin to selling ice to the eskimo’s, us lot (joe citizen) being the eskimo’s, left out in the cold…
Comment by civil dissident — Wed 20th September 2006 @ 10:52 am
late night, dictatorship
Comment by civil dissident — Wed 20th September 2006 @ 10:53 am
Being self employed, if you do it correctly means you are covered under ACC and pay levies accordingly. Your situation highlights the necessity to make prudent arrangements for such events in life so as not to disadvantage yourself and your kids.
Comment by k lauderdale — Wed 6th December 2006 @ 8:34 pm
Hi there,
I have only just found this site so am not entirely sure of driving it yet so I hope someone is able to read this.
I have just recieved my second child support bill? in the mail. It is $450 per month for a child that I have never seen or been able to see. The boy in question was born 3 years ago yet the child support demands only emerged last month through the IRD.
Imagine the following circumstances….
– As a horny 19 year old I met a cute girl of 24.
– We hooked up and she told me she was on the pill and refused to use condoms.
– It turns out that she miscarried twins three weeks prior to meeting me.
– She lived with her divorced, alcoholic mother and the 5 year old son of her sister who is in prison for GBH.
– She fell pregnant.
– She told me all she wanted was a child and would not abort.
– Said that she wanted never to hear from me again and not to try and “find” her.
– I dealt with this by considering myself a sperm donor and got on with my life.
– 3 years on and the child support bill comes through and I have no idea where my son is and how to contact her and why suddenly I have to pay even though she “never wanted to hear from me or see me again.” I had considered a relationship with the child but she refused me this and I had to get over it and carry on…
I feel like I was tricked into giving her a child and she manipulated me when (as I said) I was nothing more than a horny young man, drunk on the attention that she gave me. Now I feel that I am paying to support her and whatever habits she has…and have got nothing in return except for a lousy shag.
Do I have any options? I’d really appreciate someone to talk to about this as I have just paid them and put them out of my mind and it’s killing me inside.
If someone knows how to post this, please feel free to do it where is may get read and notify me by email :
[email protected]
Thank You
Comment by the-milky — Wed 20th June 2007 @ 5:20 pm
Bit of a situation on this one. I would have thought there must be some legal requirement to prove that you are actually the biological father before IRD could start taking money.
But then again, it is the IRD, so they probably don’t have to.
From what I’ve heard in the past from others, it really sounds like you are stuck with this, unless there is a something in the legal system to follow.
I was somewhat in the same situation at 20, try sticking it out for a year, only to find that the ex partner and myself had absolutely nothing in common at all – I’m still paying child support 12years later and just keeps going up and up every year.
good luck.
Comment by Shane — Thu 2nd August 2007 @ 4:35 pm