Men’s issues united
Through experiences of meeting, talking on the phone and e-mailing others on and off this site one would find all agreeing on major issues and disagreeing on minor issues. Now this has kept the men’s movement united and divided. This has kept all groups or as individuals with a small amount of power which really has no real power against any system that has gained power through years of existance and with real leadership, from written words to all united for the same cause.
There are groups in NZ which are religous believing that the family unit is extremely important for the children, there are men’s groups throughout NZ that are struggling to survive funding wise and are not getting any real changes made by the government for fathers (even though a small step can be considered something wondeful in the right direction)
There are suicide groups trying to stop fathers from harming themselves, there are youth groups more than aware of the consequenses of good fathering and there are individuals that have seen what the Family Court does through their own experiences or that of their friends.
There are female groups and family groups that are saddened by the amount of power destroying their own women and children clients.
There are addiction centres and prisons being filled up with males that are equally a victim as any women. And they cannot get real support or funding for men. While women they can get for easily.
There are schools that are concerned for male students. We have ‘Woman’s studies’ at University level, yet, no ‘Men’s studies.’
We have polititions that want so much to put the brakes on feminism at their level but have no substantial evidence or unity in the community to argue back.
We have police and judges who wish they had more power against the laws they are bound by.
But who’s really responsible to change all of this? Well it is you, and me and everyone else. It is all of our responsibility to provide all the good people the tools they need to make a sensible decision. Do we really think that the (good) judges and (good) police want to be locking up or denying access to, “Good men”?
No!!!!
All that these good people are waiting for is for YOU. You to get it together. Not as an individual or a small group but you as an army. An army for the good.
To put it really simple. If you are considering to voluntarily or with small wages cash in on the male victims of society, then keep all devided. But if you really care for ‘Males, long term’ you will join in to change the way the systems are being run. We cannot continue only with a group protesting outside lawyers and judges, although it has it’s place and has started the ball rolling. We must have a step 2 and so forth to complement.
Common sense tells us that’ ‘while one person gives an hour per week it will take 5 years to complete such a task whereas, 100 people giving one hour it will take 6 months.’ (this is a guess but you get the picture)
A meeting is already being set up and agreed on by many men that are not in agreeance with the actions yet are in agreeance with the issues. This meeting is due in August. All of you on this site will receive e-mails about venue, time etc. All groups will be contacted and given details. I am so please you are willing to work together even if you don’t personally LIKE ME or OTHERS. I encouraged everyone of you to put your differences aside so that you can help decide the men’s movements direction and assist in all matters.
Anyone that tries to ‘pull this down’ or ‘push their own agenda’ will be consider (I am sure) someone who needs, whose life depends on, being a victim. I am under the impression this meeting will be held at a Universty or such. Everyone is considered to have something to offer. (So, I have been told)
From me personally, watch for the details.
Right on the nail there Julie!
Comment by Ken — Fri 14th July 2006 @ 11:57 am
Thanks for the post Julie.
Reading it I immediately cast my mind back to the recent Men’s Forum.
I was disappointed with the outcome of that as it got very little press coverage and had issued no collective statement, nor timelined agenda for change.
I sincerely hope any such University meeting as you suggest will take place rectifies these deficits.
I’m afraid that any such meeting which doesn’t end up setting out clearly itemized timelined goals – a political agenda – will simply end up as yet another gabfest about guys.
Comment by Stephen — Fri 14th July 2006 @ 1:01 pm
Stephen,
I wanted to earlier tell you about a friend. She has been collecting door to door for prostrate cancer over 6 years now. She has traveled Australia with it and every spare day she is out and about, even when it rains (in her raincoat) to complete her goal amount. If she works during the week, she is out on weekends. By the way, she is a lesbian and has no children. She patiently waits for the Government to give a damn for the single people in NZ.
Yet, she gives her all for a cause close to her heart. (just like yourself)
I just wanted for you to know that there are women who support men’s issues, more than you know.
Comment by julie — Fri 14th July 2006 @ 3:36 pm
IT is great because most of the laws is favouring one party and leave others to be tourchered , am waiting that meeting , and i have to attend ,let us put things in order
Comment by david — Fri 14th July 2006 @ 7:36 pm
Well said, Julie. You bring to light the reason we don’t seem to be making any major advance in the arena of Men’s issues.
I think a key word for your post could be ‘Unification’ as any of us affected in some way that has bore the brunt of the FC, CYFS and even the police has been affected, yet in total we are still divided, and therefore effectively powerless to cause any change.
Dare I say it we need a leader who can get through to the media and the general public the tragic suffering our Men are subject to, and yet stand against the many opponents they would face in society and in the government.
There is plenty of support, we just need a figurehead I guess…
About the meeting in August – how will the event be publicised ? I would be happy to send on emails, flyers to promulgate this event.
Comment by Moose — Fri 14th July 2006 @ 10:50 pm
Wow Julie,
What’s her name?
I’d like to send such a woman a bouquet.
Comment by Stephen — Fri 14th July 2006 @ 10:53 pm
Stephen,
I am sure she would be happy with a ‘thank-you.’ But I will let her see you comment when she visits and maybe she might like to say a little back.
Moose
I have no doubts that the leaders will come forward.
Comment by julie — Sat 15th July 2006 @ 12:13 am
Julie,
I’m intrigued.
I’ve met a few lesbians in nz. With the vast majority it was a case of scratch the surface and a manhater appeared.
So I’m intrigued, indeed seeing as you refuse to identify her I’m suspicious.
If she does indeed exist, what would be her motives for being so hugely active pro-male.
Only don’t get all bent out of shape about my suspicion. I’ve never met you in person, don’t really know you and I’ve simply lost count of the number of untruths and half truths doled out to me by women in nz over the 20 odd years there that have hurt me and many of those I love.
So I’m naturally very cautious, especially with on-line personas.
(Your welcome to exercise similar caution with me too by the way)
Also as I said in previous posts you’ll need to prove statements with cautious scarred men – especially when they seem so far fetched as this one.
Comment by Stephen — Sat 15th July 2006 @ 1:46 pm
I’m not inclined to agree with the negative view that men are factionalised to the point of inertia.
Fact is the feminist movement has been factionalised for decades yet has achieved huge swathes of public policy for themselves.
I rather beleive that despite some differences men can have some common goals – for instance increased hands on parenting, reproductive rights and longevity, and then make headway with steady political action.
Comment by Stephen — Sat 15th July 2006 @ 1:52 pm
Hi Stephen,
I am aware there are people that question why people do things, as in what is their motives. They say, “Why do you do that, what’s in it for you?”
I choose not to look at people’s actions like that but I do understand why people do it.
Anyhow the name of the female I am talking about is ‘Coral.’ Why does she do it? Hmmm. I know she is very close to her brothers. I will have to ask her because I don’t remember as she has been doing it so long. I could not publish her full name and address on a website. That would be wrong. But I do call her a workaholic sometimes (in fun)
But I can tell you that I have another lesbian friend who turns 30 next Saturday that is going to help. Maybe it is the ‘masculine side’ some have that they relate to men with. I can tell you that she is also close to her brothers as she’s the baby of the family.
Maybe, it is just the right time to fight for men. I mean we have all fought for children’s rights (70,s), women’s rights (80,s) and gays (90,s) so it is must be time for men. I am only guessing these years but men are all that seems to be left.
I promise you that you will be very happy with the results of the meeting.
It is being very well prepared for and alot of expertise will be involved directly or indirectly. Not everyone is a front line soldier like the Men’s Coalition is but we can all complement each other.
Any inside information you will have to get by e-mail. I know your imput would be valuable as others do.
Comment by julie — Sat 15th July 2006 @ 3:30 pm
Stephen,
I just want to make it clear that the only part we are having with the meeting is organising things that I or friends can. It is not for any of us (females) to make any decisions or even be a part because we have no expertise at all in being males or in male’s needs.
Comment by julie — Sat 15th July 2006 @ 8:47 pm
Hi Stephen,
I just happen to have Coral here with me and I have shown her what I said about her and what you commented back.
“So, Coral do you raise money for prostrate cancer?”
“No, for bowl cancer. Bowl cancer affects men, women and children.”
Sorry for given wrong information Stephen but she has more to say.
“Coral, what do you think about the femisnist movement and the masculinist movement?”
“Well put it this way. I think the feminist movement was a movement started off with good intentions but in my view as a gay women it has become a lop sided issue. For both sexes there are rights and obligations. I myself have been in similar situations as alot of you fathers and males. I have had gay relationships and have had the same problems. Actually there was one girlfriend who wanted a child and I was there when he was born. But I didn’t actually want a child and it broke the relationship. The sperm was artificially inseminated. I know what it feels to watch a new life to come into this world and I am sure it is the same for most first time dads.
I have not seen the child for 5 years since he was 2 years old. She wanted him for herself and put a protection order out on me which makes me relate to your situations.
At the time my mother was slowly dying and I was doing a course. Once I finished the course I went to Brisbane because if I tried anything with the ex over our child I would of ended up locked up.
I also lost a dear beloved brother who was also gay. He gave the best years of his life raising funds for aids.
I am in a way, to a degree supportive of what the men are doing in New Zealand. In my view a platonic relationship needs to develop between both men and women before a deeper meaningful relationship develops between the sexes to understand the issues on both sides of the fence.”
Comment by julie — Sun 23rd July 2006 @ 3:23 pm
Julie,
It’s strange that you seem to want me to beleive that this ‘Carol’ person even exists and has you acting as proxy.
Can anybody actually verify this ‘Carol’ exists and says the things you claim?
If you want to give this ‘Carol’ person credibility she should be authenticated.
Otherwise I’m afraid her existence is always going to be called into question.
Comment by Stephen — Sun 23rd July 2006 @ 4:28 pm
Stephen,
Her name is Coral, not Carol. Who cares if she is real. I was wrong. In fact I think I need a lesson on the different cancers.
Comment by julie — Sun 23rd July 2006 @ 6:19 pm
I care.
Comment by Stephen — Sun 23rd July 2006 @ 9:05 pm
Stephen,
Gee, that that commemt is a challenge to answer.
Firstly, I understand that you are careful as to what people say. I myself have been learning the hard way that many people I have respect for (from their positions) are repeating information to me that is hearsay and once checked out I find it inaccurate. People just seem too busy to check things out so they rely on others to give information. It is important to get the facts.
Secondly, I can’t afford to be dishonest especially to myself. And besides, dishonest is afterall only a short term gain.
Thirdly, Coral’s story it not unusual among female gay. Most I know don’t have children but then alot work in the social field with children like CYFS or women’s groups and their children. We don’t hear alot of gays adopting children etc here in NZ as in the USA.
Also, it is their struggles with women they can relate to men about.
Even I have to earn their respect because they have been burn’t by other women.
Comment by julie — Sun 23rd July 2006 @ 11:26 pm
Julie,
You’ve still not offered any proof this character ‘Coral’ actually exists.
So I’m still not convinced this ‘Coral’ is real.
Especially hearing the story about her supposed huge sacrifices for menfolk.
Quote – ” I wanted to earlier tell you about a friend. She has been collecting door to door for prostrate cancer over 6 years now. She has traveled Australia with it and every spare day she is out and about, even when it rains (in her raincoat) to complete her goal amount. If she works during the week, she is out on weekends. By the way, she is a lesbian”
Your attempt to minimise by saying –
” Who cares if she is real? ”
draws further suspicion.
That’s a shame as authentication of this unproven character could serve some purpose of destigmatising women who are taking some heat for thier duplicitous misandric sistas.
(like it or not Julie I think you should accept that the stereotype of the duplicitous ballbusting feminist is alive and possible growing due to decades of malebashing feminism).
Furthermore all you do in failing to authenticate this character is create the impression of yourself as being yet another trojan horse feminist trolling a men’s site.
Remember Julie, you’re dealing with guys who’re used to seeing themselves and thier brothers shafted by women spewing out uncorroborated ‘evidence’. And that’s exactly what you seem to be peddling in this instance.
However you could win guy’s trust with proof rather than mere unsubstantiated rhetoric which seems wildly exagerated compared to thier experience of women.
Comment by Stephen — Mon 24th July 2006 @ 2:18 pm
Stephen,
I admit to being wrong about Coral collecting for Prostrate Cancer so we can leave her out for caring for men’s issues. I am sure she would collect for such a cause.
Not long ago I wrote telling you that women will admit to their faults and I failed to prove that. How does one prove someone exists for real on a blog?
Funny enough but part of me wishes this was me. It would spare energy. But tell me Stephen, who is going to think of me that way.
Do you think I don’t know the attitudes of the males I am dealing with. You don’t think how I am embarrassed sitting in a room hearing how Asian women are better than Western women. You don’t think how a part of me cringes hearing men comment about women having slippers ready for them when they get home. You don’t think how I am embarrassed when new men look to me for a reaction on insults towards women.
Seriously, Your men’s groups have alot more support avaliable to them that i have dealing with both sexes.
Do you not know how 2 faced I feel helping men and women.
Why you do not know that you have so many female supporters is beyond me.
What ever I tell you is the facts of the small people, men and women and I don’t need to verify it because it ends up in a post later from some article you or someone picks up.
I give you enough respect to listen to you and think about what you say along with common sense. All I ask is that you give me the same.
Many of your hurt and betrayed men get into other relationships. Some will never get it right but then that’s their problem.
Comment by julie — Mon 24th July 2006 @ 3:36 pm
Stephen,
I guess, I needed to put it all together. Good timing because I have been called accountable from my coaches, my leaders. I have never been a loser in life. I have always been equal to males and they have always been equal to me. There are always going to be winners and losers in all parts of life. Life is not about being a ‘Mere woman’ or being a ‘Mere man.’ It is about being the best you can be.
I have read your story and I can see you have had it hard.
Well guess what (my brother) I have had it just as hard. And so have my boys. Regardless, in life you have to make the most of what you have. It is only a chioce to be a victim.
I refuse to be a victim and I am sorry to tell you but so do many, many men.
Until you realise you are equal to the women at your level, you will continue to be anti the other sex. And you will always lose.
Anything you do for the short term will be short term. Anything you do for the long term will be long term. I cannot understand how men in their 50’s who are the baby boomers cannot understand that they had all the free education, they had everything free and yet they are not happy.
Give us younger ones the same go and then judge.
Now you know why I spin so much. It is because I fight. There are so many great men in NZ and throughout the world. They will not give you the sympathy you want either.
For all the bitching and moaning nothing will be achieved. How is it that I have the most signatures for Waynes petition and how is that Jan has the same. Where are your hurt and betrayed men.
Comment by julie — Mon 24th July 2006 @ 5:59 pm
Julie,
I see I’ve struck a raw nerve.
So be it.
You still haven’t authenticated this ‘Coral’ character.
But interestingly you do say
“I admit to being wrong about ‘Coral’ collecting for Prostrate Cancer so we can leave her out for caring for men’s issues”.
So you’re now contradicting your own testimony.
And you wonder why I suspect you’re some feminist trojan horse!
Incidentally keep thinking of me as the weak, victim you describe me as.
It’s no skin off my nose sista
I’ve just been invited to take up a position within the International Men’s movement.
When you PROVE yourself as more trustworthy and stop flip-flopping I’ll tell you more about that.
Comment by Stephen — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 5:24 am
Stephen,
I don’t think of you as a weak victim. I think of you as a survivor.
And I am putting things in place (a coach and leaders) so that I become focused because to be honest I am not coping well ‘flip flopping.’ The deadline is 2 weeks.
Tell me, how do I verify Coral?
And I think you will be an asset to the Internation men’s movement.
Comment by julie — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 7:33 am
I reckon getting the highly regarded and trusted Jim Bailey to vouch for this ‘Carol’ would work.
Comment by Stephen — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 11:33 am
Stephen,
I don’t think that is going to happen. I will leave it up to you to think of me as a Trojan Horse femenist that trolls men’s sites. (or not)
I will just take it as a lesson to use what is verified from articles on the web.
I could very easily falsify a person if I wanted to. I did not come down in the last shower regarding ciminals and law. I know a thing or two about a thing or two.
Comment by julie — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 4:15 pm
Stephen,
Do you think men’s issues should include issues for gay men?
Comment by julie — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 11:18 pm
Sometimes there’s overlap, and sometimes heterosexual and homosexual men have different issues.
Comment by Stephen — Wed 26th July 2006 @ 12:44 am
So I guess they overlap biologically but they don’t overlap psychologically.
They overlap regarding youth, they overlap regarding health, they overlap regarding prisons, addiction and suicide. They even overlap regarding child support and shared parenting.
So that means that there has to be gay men included in defining men’s issues because there is a need to care for the issues that don’t overlap and because a male’s commision would be based on the biological description of a male.
Gay males are also excited about men’s rights coming forward. I think the only real problem left is to get everyone to put aside their different religious beliefs, different sexual preferences and concentrate on politics.
I was raised to believe politics, religion and sex do not mix. How true that seems to be.
Comment by julie — Wed 26th July 2006 @ 7:45 am