MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Women and criminal justice

Filed under: General — Julie @ 11:24 am Thu 30th March 2006

“As the world around us grows more violent and less understandable, our need for vengeance and revenge seems to be growing at a camparable rate. The challenging reality we might have to (we know we do) face, if we are serious about making a difference for our children and grandchildren and turning the tide of increasing societal violence (all types of abuse), is that until we stop shifting the blame and looking for solutions and work instead on finding the courage to deal with the issues in a holistic way, nothing will change.”

“Historically the attitudes of some of those who have been involved in the oversight of women within the criminal justice system have incorporated seeing women as the weaker sex and thus less responsible for their deviant behaviour. ”

“Things are changing in this regard, with women increasingly being held accountable as adults for the crimes they commit rather than being simply seen as ‘naughty girls’. The arrival of female and younger male judges on the bench appears to have had an impact in this regard.

“It has seemed at times in the past as if the different treatment has been not only about a failure to see women as adults responsible for their bahaviour, but also about a reluctance to send women to prison because doing so allowed the women to evade their responsibility as a mother. ”

“It can only be a good thing that women’s criminal behaviour is now being judged on the basis of more objective and less patriarchal criteria.”

Lashlie, Celia. (2002) “The journey to prison, who goes and why”. Published by HarperCollins (NZ) Ltd.

We are still considering women to be needed in the home and as the weaker sex in some circles but as the femisnist movement and masculinist movement continues so will the accountability. Also as father’s are being seen to be just as capable in parenting, women will receive thier due. I have great faith that we can achieve equality, fairness and balance as those learning the hardships speak out.


  1. Is there more to learn?

    Comment by julie — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 11:30 am

  2. So Celia,
    giving men harsher sentences was patriarchal eh?
    It gave men more power than women!
    Gosh the logic astounds me.
    And those wonderful young feminist judges have come along to rid the world of that nasty old patriarchy.
    The attempt to rebrand feminism seems plain dumb IMO.
    Talk about trying to turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.
    Check out Warren Farrel’s book – ‘The Myth of Male Power’ for details.

    Comment by Stephen — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 12:26 pm

  3. Stephen, I need for you to meet me half way. At this very moment I am speaking to a male who is starting the process of fighting for his rights as a parent. He has had unlimited access until 6 weeks ago. What changed everything? He won’t listen to her shit. What sort of shit? She is starting to use the child (4)as a pawn. So he went to see CYFS because he didn’t know where else to turn. They said he needs a lawyer. And that mediation should be tried first. He thinks that sooner or later she will need him and stop this bullshit. He is worried that she might not think this.
    So what are you going to do, I ask? Are you going to give up your child? Nope.

    The child was going to day care with the father. The mother has just recently moved to Auckland. He has had her (child) for weeks at a time over the years and sorted out day care while he worked.
    When he talks to her she just hangs up. She has put an order on him. Just like the rest of you.

    So who can help? He lives in the North Shore.

    By the way he has been a friend of mine for 14 years. You can’t ring him because he works and lives in the bush. Please don’t let him get fucked over like you guys have. He has the opportunity to have a great life financially and all.

    Comment by julie — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 1:46 pm

  4. Hey Stephen I tried to e-mail you only to find it resent back to me.

    Comment by julie — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 2:16 pm

  5. Hey guys, let’s stick to the post. My family is probably like many families. Things don’t really affect you until they affect you close to home. My curses are just the same as yours. My heart breaks the same as yours have.
    My friend will have to go through the same as you have whether I like it or not. So I will give the advice of going to a mens group and he will try to resolve it without paying a cent only to pay so much money it will devastate him.

    Damn, why couldn’t of I stayed ignorant. Now , I have to ask myself, can I ever go back. Just like you and your families and friends.

    Comment by julie — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 3:01 pm

  6. seems to me that the world gets more violent as more kids grow up in matriarchal hierarchies where fathers have little or no input and children grow up with their most significant female role model demeaning what it means to be male.
    seems to me the world gets more violent the more the ‘no fault’ policies are applied in more and more areas of our lives.
    it also seems to me that we could – as women – use less manipluation and more consideration in all of our dealings, not just with our men. maybe you could call your friend’s wife and point out what a selfish and damaging mother she is being if you want something postive to do. maybe if more women showed serious disapproval of absue of the system and the parental bond we could make some positive changes from another powerful perpsective.

    Comment by miss mug — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 4:58 pm

  7. Until we see true equality in sentencing, I will never accept our Justice system as fair.

    Just one very recent case – a New Plymouth woman senentenced to community service for raping a school boy.
    Any may convicted of raping a school girl almost invariably gets sentenced to jail.

    In fact, although laws have recently changed, it still does not call that woman’s crime ‘rape’.

    When women receive the same sentences as men for serious violent crime, including drugs, murder, violence, then we will acheive equality.

    When women no longer walk free because their children, or imminent children, ‘need’ their mother, replete with criminal, violent, druggie, or whatever role model that she provides, whereas fathers do not have that priviledge.

    I am all in favour of harsher sentences for women.
    I cannot for the life of me see why gender should have a bearing on sentence.

    Comment by Al D Rado — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 6:33 pm

  8. Miss mug, I wish i could speak to this woman but unfortunately she is a woman with a mother to deal with and unfortunately my friend got her pregnant on a rebound relationship. She was young when she had this child. But this might be his only ever child. He is a great guy and a great dad. He doesn’t love easily even though many women love him.

    Comment by julie — Thu 30th March 2006 @ 8:33 pm

  9. Julie,
    Perhaps your friend should ring mensline in Auckland.

    Comment by Stephen — Fri 31st March 2006 @ 11:33 am

  10. Ah, yes that is a good idea. When I next hear from him i will say that.

    Anyhow I am outta here. I am sure I have learn’t enough. And I have had my thoughts/beliefs challenged very well as well as my heart. Words are over and the actions begin. I have really enjoyed discussing things with you. You know my e-mail address if you ever want to talk.

    Comment by julie — Fri 31st March 2006 @ 11:49 am


    Firstly, let me say that site advertising works, and in my case, worked well for me, especially the ad on this site for Valiant Hooker.

    I’m Donkey-deep in what appears to be a standard mud-slinging custody battle, and find myself having greater problems with CYFS and the Lawyer For Child, than I am with the respondent.

    Over the weeks I have developed a sense that my current (female) solicitor is my solicitor but not my strident advocate; if you see the difference.

    Knowing I’m push S up H, I also know I need a vociferous advocate. Tonight I found one in Rod Hooker.

    What he had to say about the various legal parties to this vile play left me feeling bone-cold. The women acting in our so-called justice system appear to not only have an agenda but also inordinate power within the system.

    Rod stated, MOL. ‘In this system, if the women in the system decide to damn you, you stay damned until someone like me gets you undamned. And believe me, buddy, you are now sitting on a high pedestal in the Hall Of The Damned, and getting you tipped off is going to require a serious fight.’

    When I asked how the Lawyer For Child would react when she discovered Hooker was on the case, he replied, ‘She’ll know she has a serious fight on her hands.’

    And this is our “justice system”? Females with agenda, off-loading their own ‘stuff’ onto others and ever-so carefully manipulating the system to their own ends? And who are the prime victims? Yup. The children.

    Apparently, these vile women subtely suggest to ‘some’ judges that a poor outcome for the child (the outcome they don’t want because some father has the audacicity to buck the system, and to hell with the child) will reflect badly on him/her. It’s kind’ve ‘Don’t foget what happened to Lilly-Bing. That could have been avoided if the presiding judge had listened to the wise counsel for child…..Know what I’m saying, yaronar?’

    What on earth can we do to fight this crap????


    Comment by dpex — Mon 3rd April 2006 @ 8:52 pm

  12. Hi David
    I still have everything to learn about the legal system and how to work it, so can’t help much there. But if there are any social-work or psychological reports that needed challenging I could be good at that. Would be glad to assist. (I regularly do battle with CYFS in my work).
    email me if you think I could help. (I think JohnP will have the address)

    Comment by Paul — Mon 3rd April 2006 @ 10:07 pm

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