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Judith Collins – What does this mean?

Filed under: General — Scrap_The_CSA @ 2:11 pm Wed 28th March 2007

We have to accept that dads are important, it does take two to tango, after all. They should be encouraged to take more responsibility for child-raising. A survey by the Ministry of Social Development showed that around 30,000 children have no other parent contributing towards their development. Fathers must be responsible for their children and we will require liable parents to meet their financial obligations.

Recognising all Kiwis’ potential
Address to Auckland Rotary Club
Judith Collins – 26 March


  1. Scrap,

    It means what it says. Fathers should be held financially responsible for the mothers just as ENGLAND IS SAYING THE SAME THING.

    Yet underneath it is saying, we need to educate Judith Collins. But then we have been thus the change from just being financially responsible. Norway has changed back to the being more family orientated. Hong Kong, China and Japan are just starting our trend of financially supporting single mothers and they are wanting to learn how to not let it get out of control as it has here. Well, they are presently figuring out their policies. Free trade policies are forcing them in some ways. We will change when we make it change. We need to write about the reality they know being the past issues such as Helen Clarke and her sisters forming an International feminist group that is in the United nations. We must talk about what is happening today and how the effects on males has made it the way it is.

    You, yourself may not be able to do this as you are a party of your own yet I am sure they will want to work with other parties if they recognise them. Just for the fact that you have put so much work into your party and have put so much work into your trust, I would consider they do.

    Once they invite you into their own CLICK group, take advantage.

    I am one of these women that she talks of and at the same time getting to know your side I had been a worthwhile candadid to speak as a winner for single mothers. That has not changed.

    Be her ally

    Comment by julie — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 3:29 pm

  2. I pay $400 a fortnight for my “duty” as a NCP.Presumably my ex should contribute the same amount.Does it cost $800 a fortnight to bring up a 10 y,o.?When the IRD works out my contribution as 18% of my gross pay; why do we pay that as a net figure?Surely if the figure is $200 gross a week; we then pay PAYE and owe cash less our PAYE tax; ?$140 total.Is there a loophole ? Any accountants out there!

    Comment by keith — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 4:58 pm

  3. Actually Scrap, I heard of these stats a year ago. They do show, or should I say, they are mean’t to show how useless fathers are. I knew then that they were coming into the political arena. But you know, they are not the only stats that were produced. I have seen Bevan ask for certain stats under the rights of your political party.

    Comment by julie — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 5:19 pm

  4. Recognizing all Kiwis’ potential – A speech by MP – NZ – Judith Collins – E/Clevedon – National – Shadow Minister of Social Welfare

    MP – NZ – Judith Collins – E/Clevedon – National – Shadow Minister of Social Welfare
    CC, MP – NZ – John Key – E/Helensville – National – Leader of the Opposition
    CC, HandsOnEqualParent-E-Group
    BCC, All Known **NZ-FATHERS-Supporters**

    Judith-C and John-K

    May I comment on the few negatives that I see in this speech and future expressions of the to be Minister of Social Welfare

    These comments are from one of 1000’s of Dads and some Mums and THUS THEIR KIDS damaged by NZ-Law and Social Policy, much of it put in place by NATIONAL;

    – This DAD whose Child was stolen while a foetus,
    – The theft funded by NZ-Law and Social Policy
    – This DAD who fought to **Equal** Parent his Son,
    – This Dad who has **Equal** Parented that Son in time since 1997,
    – This Dad financially crippled by the fight
    – This Dad who developed heart and reflux troubles
    – Directly crippled because of the Injustices discovered on the journey,
    – This Dad who faced those troubles in year 2000 with several procedures
    – This Dad praises the Health system
    – This Dad who continues to have procedures with heaps of medication,
    – This Dad who is as HandsOn-Dad as is possible without stepping on Mums ½ of **Equal** Parenting
    – This Dad who shares the experiences gained almost every day
    – Sometimes many times every day to help other Kids get
    – **Equal** doses of their own Mum and Dad,
    – This Dad who runs a FoodBANK 24X7,
    – This Dad who lives on a **Single Persons Invalid Benefit**
    – NOTE a ONE person benefit
    – Yet in fact **Equal** Parents that Son with NOTHING from WINZ
    – While MOTHER gets full DPB
    – Yet does less than ½ the job and shirks as many bills as possible
    – Further detail – Go

    Further HandsOn-Comments Marked ** and BOLDED in your text below which I hope will lead John and You to modify some of your thoughts on these matters

    Your speech does not take into account NATIONALS part in causing many of the troubles Parents face


    Recognising all Kiwis’ potential
    26 March 2007 – 15:54 – Judith Collins

    Recognising all Kiwis’ potential
    Address to Auckland Rotary Club
    Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

    It is always a pleasure to see so many old friends and former colleagues and to talk to you about an issue that I believe is utterly crucial to the well-being of New Zealand and New Zealanders.

    As you have stated in your introduction, I am the Member of Parliament for Clevedon, and I am the National Party’s spokeswoman for Welfare, for Families, for Veterans and for Pacific island Affairs.

    My primary area, Welfare, accounts for almost $16 billion and is the portfolio that spends more tax dollars than any other. That alone makes Welfare very important. But what really makes it important are the people whose income is represented by that money.

    Despite all we hear about fewer people being on benefits, more money is now spent on welfare than at any other time. Almost twice as much is spent on welfare as on health.

    – Education costs around $11 billion and despite its investment in our future, is still
    – Dwarfed by the almost $16 billion spent on welfare.

    Where does the money come from? Well, if we note that in the past financial year all corporate tax brought in just over $10 billion and GST brought in a net figure of just over $10 billion, then it’s easy to see how much welfare costs.

    **Having been self employed and employed by others since 10 years old I am well aware of the tax I and others have/do pay

    Of the total welfare payments, $10 billion is being spent on the
    – domestic purposes benefit,
    – **DPB is the result of failed Govt policies for many generations
    – **Look at my case above and place the blame where it is, NOT add Political SPIN to hide NATIONALS part in it.
    – the unemployment benefit,
    – **Part of life and expected short term support in any healthy nation
    – the sickness benefit,
    – **Part of life and expected short term support in any healthy nation
    – the invalids benefit,
    – **Part of life and expected short term support in any healthy nation
    – **MY experience of IB is that they constantly check for no good reason having done 3 or 4 reviews most years and still do not receive anything to Feed and Father my Son
    – family support,
    – **Part of life and expected support for FAMILIS in any healthy nation
    – accommodation supplement,
    – **Beneficiaries don’t make the rules that has taken housing out of reach of many
    – student allowances,
    – **Govt Cock-up
    – Disability allowances and others.
    – **Part of life and expected support in any healthy nation
    Although the sums make interesting reading, they don’t tell us about the people affected by this.

    What we know is that the poor are getting poorer.
    ***YES I run and NED the FoodBANK to survive

    The Government’s own Social Report has revealed this.

    We export sheep meat, we export wool, we export dairy produce but I would argue that our biggest export is the almost one million New Zealanders who choose to live overseas. We export many people who have talent, skills, drive and determination and we do so hoping they will want to come back and contribute to New Zealand, not only in their retirement but also in their active years.

    We hope that, just like John Key, they will bring back their skills, talents and experiences. We hope they will build successful businesses, increasing our ability to market our talents and produce our services to the world, and we hope they bring back their children because we hope like anything that New Zealand really is a great place to bring up children. And it is, for most children.

    As I said at the start, I am the Member of Parliament for Clevedon. Many of you will know Clevedon. Many of you will think immediately of the polo at Clevedon. Well, my electorate is quite diverse.

    Just along Clevedon Road, a mere 10 minutes from the polo ground, we have four schools in Takanini and Papakura where it is necessary to feed children their breakfast because otherwise they simply will not be fed. There are schools where, the teachers will tell you, 30% of the children don’t turn up on a Monday. For those who say there is no underclass, come with me and you will meet some of the poorest children in the country, living in the Clevedon electorate.

    We have children who go to schools where 96% of their classmates come from welfare dependent homes. These are children where no adult member of the family or extended family holds down a full-time job. These children might, in other times, have looked to grandparents to save them from dysfunctional parents, but many of the grandparents are themselves simply dysfunctional parents grown older.

    We have, in some communities, three generations of hopelessness, of poverty, of violence, of crime, of state intervention and of little responsibility. We have an aging population. We have a changing population.

    There are now almost 200,000 sole parent families that represent 30% of all families with children.
    ***My now 12 years experience suggests most of these sole parents situations have been caused thru poor NZ-Law and Social Policy.
    ***MP’s have deliberately created the situation for generations

    Ask people who emigrate why they are doing it. A number will say for the opportunities, for the experience and, for the increasing number moving to Australia, because they want their children to grow up in a more positive environment, not weighed down by negativity or over-regulation. They’re looking for an environment were everybody feels they have a chance, an opportunity, and where they can achieve based on what they do, not who they are, or where they come from.

    This is the best little country in the world for most of us, but not for long if we can’t get more New Zealanders to buy into the Kiwi dream of self reliance, enterprise, aspiration and ambition.

    There are answers. Parenting requires skill and patience. For those parents who have no parenting skills but who have children, we must promote and provide intensive parenting courses. Some NGOs and churches are already showing the way. Some run in-residence parenting courses for young mothers who have no such skills.
    ***Short sighted comment — MOST Parents have the skills — Let them do the JOB

    I visited one of these homes recently. One of the young mums, just 22 years old, has just had her fourth child, and since Child Youth and Family have threatened to take away her fourth child, as they did her first three, she has an incentive to stay and change.

    In-residence, 12-month parenting programmes work. We need more of them.

    The Home Intervention Programme for Parents and Youngsters or (HIPPY) programme started in 1992 in Papakura works. It picks up young mums and teaches them to be mums, teaches them to cook, to look after their children, and themselves, and then, for the best, it turns them into tutors, gives them a job and in some cases a career.
    ***Short sighted comment however not far off— MOST Parents have the skills — Let them do the JOB

    These programmes work, and they work because of the people involved. They aren’t government departments and they do the work that government departments could never do. They’re on the ground, they’re practical, they are often faith-based, they’re competent and they care. We need more of them wherever there is a need.

    New Zealand, Australia and the UK have seen a big decrease in the numbers on the unemployment benefit over the past few years. We have also seen a massive increase in the numbers on the sickness and invalids’ benefits.

    Around 127,000 working age New Zealanders are too sick to work. According to the government’s figures, 24.9% of sickness beneficiaries are capable of working. The current government claims to have just uncovered the problem, after years of blaming it on an aging population, and is now promoting legislation to allow them to ask someone on a sickness benefit to prepare a plan to work.

    It’s a start, but only a start. What I think is missing is any acknowledgment of the experience, the expertise and the commitment of the NGO and not-for-profit sector.
    **MAYBE however most of my and those who support what I do in Parenting and FoodBANK is volunteer work be beneficiaries and superannuates who have costs but not recompense — Many NGO’s are Govt funded but those who do much of the work like me can’t get any funding

    Rather than employing more staff in the departments, the National Party believes that the NGO sector should be far more hands-on in this area and in the management of people who have, in some cases, simply lost all hope for anything better.
    This is a major plank of our welfare reform. We see little point in spending the effort sending people for jobs when they are currently unemployable. We need to deal with the issues that are genuine barriers to employment — alcoholism, drug addiction, inadequate literacy and numeracy, and work experience.
    **YES but take care of the funding situation pointed out above

    We must lift people out of the quagmire of intergenerational welfare dependency. We can’t make a difference until we call it what it is, and accept that it is simply never going to get better for the worst-affected – the children – until we put their needs first, and help and expect their parents to be the best they can.
    ***Short sighted comment however not far off

    The focus of our welfare policy is to acknowledge that almost everyone has the potential to make a contribution to the community they live in. Just leaving people on benefits, excusing them of all responsibility is to ignore their potential and condemn them to a life of poverty.
    **Take people off the benefit and Parenting and volunteer work that I do will fall apart overnight

    This is not an easy job. For a start, we need to get people the help they need to remove barriers to employment. We have to find out if they can read or write. That’s a start. It’s no good sending a young person to training to learn to be a truck driver if he or she can’t read or write. You’re wasting your money, destroying any goodwill, and setting him or her up for another failure.

    We have to have medical assessments that mean something.
    **Oh Yeh?

    Even the government grudgingly acknowledges that not everyone on a sickness benefit should be there. Being on a sickness benefit can be a pathway into long-term dependency with almost no effort required to stay there. It’s just one of those benefits that no one seems to come off unless it’s to move to another benefit.

    Our emphasis must be on keeping people off the sickness benefit in the first place by harnessing their potential, by helping them rehabilitate, and by retraining.

    Instead of all the focus being on what these people can’t do, we need to consider what they can do. At a time of low unemployment, it really is time to address the lack of work skills of those who have left school to go on the unemployment benefit, or who have been on it for years.

    For example, community work, doing work for others less fortunate, not competing with the commercial sector. These programmes have worked overseas in getting people socialised, providing them with new skills, and giving them the satisfaction that they too can contribute to the common good.

    We need those raising children on the DPB to get into part-time work, training or community service when their youngest child reaches school. Leaving people on that benefit with nothing more than a plan does nothing to remove that powerful barrier to work, recent work experience.
    ***BALLS Parenting needs to be valued and never more or less than HandsOnEqualParenting

    We have to accept that dads are important, it does take two to tango, after all. They should be encouraged to take more responsibility for child-raising. A survey by the Ministry of Social Development showed that around 30,000 children have no other parent contributing towards their development. Fathers must be responsible for their children and we will require liable parents to meet their financial obligations.
    ***BALLS — FATHERING needs to be valued and Kids given their own DADS BACK

    And putting children first in all of this, acknowledging the children who I spoke of today, we’ll want to work with those who are surviving on the DPB to make sure they present pre-school children for all appropriate vaccinations, unless they have a conscientious objection and sign a declaration accordingly.

    We’ll encourage them to get their children regular health and dental checks, and make sure their kids attend school regularly. 45,000 children play truant every week. 45,000 children are missing the most valuable years of their lives, and all too often their parents know. We need to reinforce to parents how important their child’s education is.
    **Funding the Parent that does not take children to the doctor needs to be taken into account

    Most people who use the welfare system use it as a short-term safety net. National also understands there are people in our communities who, through no fault of their own, may never be able to work again. We will never turn our backs on them.
    **Prove it

    But if we are to help people lift themselves out of poverty, we must do better with the money we spend on welfare. We know that the easiest thing we can do is to just pay people benefits.

    Money spent on dealing with literacy, drug and alcohol addiction, and getting people work experience can be expensive. However, when we view a future without those welfare reforms, the price of doing nothing — the price of complacency — is far too high.

    In conclusion, I would like to leave you with a good-news story.

    A few weeks ago, I was flying to Wellington and the woman sitting next to me introduced herself and told me she would vote National at the next election, to the shock of her family. She is a manager for a government department. Obviously thrilled to get her vote, I asked her why she had come to that conclusion. This is her story.

    She is the eldest of 20 children and the only one who works. She has eight children, seven of whom are in paid work and one whom has just left work to have a baby. She traced why she is different from her 19 siblings to the time in the 1990s when she was living in her state house and was given the opportunity to buy that house.

    She became a property owner, with a mortgage. She had a physical stake in the community and a means to better her financial situation. She went to Polytechnic, she trained, she got a job, she did more training and she got a better job. She set an example for her children. That woman is a success both as a mother and a career woman. If she can do it, others can. I see it as my job to make sure many more people like her can tell their own success stories.
    Onward in Coalition — Jim Bailey — JimBWarrior

    Founder –
    And –

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 5:42 pm

  5. Keith,

    3 years ago, I was just like you. Well, 5 years ago I was considered one of the worst mothers to walk the planet and today I am sort after.

    You have been kind to me and I apreciate that. My whole time in this movement I have grown and it is going to take you to do the same. You really do have to take the bull by the horns. Easier said than down, I know. But it is doable. (Is that a word?)

    Life is a game. As much as I have hated those words from my teenage years, it is true, whether you or I like it or not. Life sometimes sucks but you are the leader of yourself. What can you do to make it change????

    Comment by julie — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 5:51 pm

  6. Jim,

    You are in their click group, that’s for sure.

    If you were to challenge my being a mother instead of a best freind/lover to a male you would have me. But then as a mother, I already know you have me.

    I have got to know every group of the men’s movement now and understand every male (enough) and I know everything there is to know. I know of the new order and i will give my life for it (if it comes to it) because I know there is life after death.

    I have rubbed shoulders with everyone there is to rub shoulders with. (even mensnewsdaily and more)I know everything there is to know. I even know how your NZ Mr. Asia fits into this.

    I have taken to heart what you have said to me and I have retaliated which I will openly say I am sorry for.

    But what is so damn wrong with women being equal to men? Why can’t I speak for males? They are not speaking.

    Please say something in return because I am sticking up for you guys. Many people are confused and yet I feel like I am to speak up for you but be humble infront of you. How am I supposed to do that?

    Comment by julie — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 6:21 pm

  7. Julie,

    You can’t be Best friend and/or Lover if you are not **Equal**

    Keep learning but you can never speak for Men any more than I can speak for you

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Wed 28th March 2007 @ 8:26 pm

  8. Thanks julie;it is good to have your input to me and on this site.

    Comment by keith — Thu 29th March 2007 @ 3:52 pm

  9. Surprisingly, the “deadbeat Dads” is missing. Has Judith lost her plot?

    Comment by Ethos — Fri 30th March 2007 @ 9:11 am

  10. Scrap,

    You ask “what does this mean?”

    It’s a really good example of the duplicity of most politicians.

    Collins has been actively “courting” various Fathers by speaking with them and discussing their most pressing issues.

    This has given these Dads the “warm fuzzies” and, because they feel their situation is being progressed, their protest action has ceased. So, Collins achieves her first objective: stop the BOTHERING.

    Next, Collins goes on to do what she ALWAYS intended to do: beat up “deadbeat Dads” AGAIN.

    What Collins’ statement means is that National intend to go after child TAX (especially the penalties that go directly to the government coffers) at least as hard as Labour have done. There will be no respite – in fact, under Collins’ guidance, the efforts of the government to collect Child TAX will increase.

    Putting on my business hat, I can see why John Key would want the $500 MILLION of penalties as revenue in your budget.

    Putting on my PARENT hat, I fail to see how this makes life better for Kiwi Kids (including mine)?

    In reality, it doesn’t, but that doesn’t matter to Collins: all she is interested in is THE MONEY.

    If Collins was sincere in her intentions, her courting of Dads would already have yielded a proposal to reform the “matrix of Family Law”, the F**k-me-over Court and Child TAX.

    I don’t see a proposal to reform ALL of this anywhere…so it was never Collins’ intent to actually DO anything about this. Her sole intent for speaking with various Dads was to lull them into a false sense of security (AKA the “warm fuzzies”).

    You have to admit, she’s good at it.

    So, what does it mean? Lational or Nabour: it matters not, because, either way, our Kiwi Kids are valued only as a means to TAX parents for having children.

    On you Judith!

    Comment by Sparx — Fri 30th March 2007 @ 9:43 am

  11. Jim,

    You say,

    You can’t be Best friend and/or Lover if you are not **Equal**

    I don’t get that completely but as you know it is playing on my mind alot, just by my comments.

    I am a friend/not lover (for a serious reason) of my husband/ex-husband. He lives with a wonderful woman now and he is in a relationship that is special. Would he leave her for me? Well, maybe. but i don’t play that card. Family takes sacrafice and our 2 boys are what is most important. I don’t think (seriously at 99%) that my husband can get past his guilt. I think we have lost him. No boo-hoo. This is really sad. He is making his own destiny and it one of destruction. Our boys deserve a chance which he agrees. Unfortunately $14 a week pays shite. Music lessons at the stage our youngest son is at costs hundreds of dollars a week. The higher they go and the more talent they have the more expensive it gets. Thank god he has Maori blood down the line. (Don’t remind my ex)

    I can’t say that for every family but it is for ours. Our children have more reason to fail and be no-bodies more than 90% of the youth that are on our streets. But it is NOT, i repeat, NOT going to happen. End of story, not negiotiable.

    Both boys are set for scholarships, one for music, the other for sport. This is a major thing and as a parent you most likely understand how proud I am. Only 2 weeks ago I was applying for a night job on top of my day job to pay for all this. And on top of it, I misrepresented our family to the school, by saying there are 2 parents so that my youngest son could enter NCEA2 level papers that give the most credits. Yes, that’s right. Money will get you ahead.

    You can probably imagine my stress levels are also going through the roof over this NCEA because my youngest son is doing 2 papers that he hasn’t even done NCEA1 on because they have to fit in timetables. And they must do all hours of schooling unlike University.

    Sometimes, my friend, women have to step up to the plate. And thank feminism for giving us that chance.

    If my husband had of stepped up, great. But he didn’t and I don’t think I should be under question by anyone for taking the slack!

    Lover/freind???? Hmmm. Only if that is what a male must do also.

    Comment by julie — Fri 30th March 2007 @ 2:07 pm

  12. If you read this speech, you would see that forestry is omitted, so clearly the writer cannot see the wood for trees, but we know that anyway. Ms Collins shares her concern for the export of talent and its affect on the New Zealand economy, with so many NZers wanting to live overseas. Somehow she cannot relate the same national situation to the family situation. She debated well against the removal of section 59, but if she genuinely believed that position she would have to acknowledge in legal and political sense that the family is the foundation of the country. Let’s put that in a Father perspective. There is no recognition of qualification, no job security, (you not only have to fight for the job, you are expected to fund those that obstruct you and make additional state contributions, regardless of how much you would willingly contribute.) There is no stake in the community, no investment security, you can have your children taken away from you just as quick as you can have child support whipped out of your bank account or smacked out of the bosses hand before you even see it.
    Both Rich and Collins are having a bob each way here at the expense of men. Rich says boyfriends are okay, but you cannot have section 59, and Collins says keep section 59, but let’s keep screwing the blokes on child support.
    Rich should just go join the Labour party if that’s the way she feels, and if Collins likes big numbers, well just keep giving her a bigger list number until she sorts her attitude out.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Fri 30th March 2007 @ 3:06 pm

  13. Judy Collins should go back to singing in that 60s group ;The Seekers.She was much better at singing than the crap she does now.

    Comment by keith — Fri 30th March 2007 @ 6:33 pm

  14. Julie,

    Maybe you have hit the nail on the head

    Maybe those of us in **Family Anguish** did not have an **Equal** best friend and lover in the first place

    Maybe that’s all that’s really wrong with society

    We don’t do our relationships homework well enough before enjoying the pleasure that gives Kids Parents and thus their **Family in Anguish**

    I repeat any Best Friend and or Lover relationship that is not seen as **Equal** by BOTH parties is headed toward disaster when the lesser partner grows up and wants to be no less than **Equal**

    Usually when this happens the one growing up goes overboard and misuses their new found power and the past dominant partner is left floundering with no tools or experience to handle what is now an enemy.

    Doing a deal for sex (If that’s all that one wants) is far more honest and usually does not produce a **Family in Anguish** for any resulting kids to suffer.

    If ***HandsOnEqualParenting*** applied from conception we may well see a lot less **Families in Anguish** simply because the prize could not be fought over

    Thus the sexes would begin to be more open and honest with each other and/or perhaps it would increase the sexually deviant as same sex partners would and is a way to side step the issue **Equal** and the honesty demanded to have a heterosexual lover

    Just a thought
    By the way I can’t receive E-mail for some reason

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Sun 1st April 2007 @ 8:02 am

  15. Jim,

    I think it is far more complicated than just giving equal parenting from conception.

    Feminism wanted the ‘Pill’ so that women (and men) could have sex without repercussion of child and forced marriage. That doesn’t make relationships fun but a business deal. Each parent feels trapped and if they become unhappy in the relationship, they will question whether their personal worth is more than just being a lover/friend/provider and parent. Or being forced to live in an unhealthy situation. Blah, blah, blah.

    Marriage, “till death do we part” is a long, long time. Parenting is a long, long time with some saying for life. Being forced to stay in one particular place for the duration of child rearing is a hard ask.

    Sex, is one moment in time (OK, so it could be an all nighter LOL) and from one moment of your life, you can have conception.

    Relationships that seem to be equal are one’s where 2 people dated for a length of time, knew what the wanted, discussed the child rearing before conception and worked as a team for similar goals.

    How many human beings fit into that catagory? A percentage guess will do.

    Comment by julie — Sun 1st April 2007 @ 10:24 am

  16. Until someone asks her to explain her comment we may never know.
    Taken at face value it means business as usual – sex with a western woman can mean a lifetime of anguish for a guy who subsequently fathers a child only to find the mother uses the feminist state machinations to alienate said kid from their father.
    Onwards with the men’s marriage strike and welcome the male pill I say.

    Comment by Stephen — Sun 1st April 2007 @ 12:00 pm

  17. To all who think they can hide behind the Invalids benefits as an income for bring up Your children,Think again…This Benefit is for short term only…not for years claiming Heart ,reflux problems,as an excuse for not doing Some form of paid Work to support your child. It is Not up to the tax payers to support your lifestyle …”or your child…
    You cannot presume to mother or father a child and expect the taxpayer to support you.That is totally unfair on us all. Most of us have children and work hard for their development.. Wake up if you expect to have any reasonable access to your childs healthly growth and development by YOUR own support means.NOTthe Government…
    Children soon learn Who is the NoHoper in the family,By this time they progress towards the other parent naturally.Then you whinge about your Health..Get real.Kids Dont need this source of parenting,It will never be equal when your income is Not yours.
    Wake up””” and dont do any more harm to the children, fathers,or mothers of this country.
    People listen when you try Not Depend on others for your childs needs or your own.
    A real worry to us all, when someone taps into this web site as a handsonequalparent all the truth.

    Comment by family — Sun 1st April 2007 @ 8:57 pm

  18. family,
    Firstly, I suggest that your pseudonym is misleading and that you should perhaps choose one that better reflects your agenda.
    Secondly, a person on an invalids benefit is invariably not in such a position by choice, and obviously, such circumstances are normally permanent, save for medical or divine intervention. Unlike the majority of Domestic Purposes Beneficiaries who CHOOSE to be in that position, and in many cases make a career out of this position, mastering the skills of deceit and manipulation, becoming entirely selfish, and worst of all, alienating children from the non-custodial parent to ensure status quo of thier “pocket or purse”. Your own statement “It will never be equal when your income is not yours” should apply first and foremost to the DPB, because it is the one benefit that is handed out without question to the perpetrators of abduction and alienation, and often persists until children reach 18, or as long as the abductor wishes. It is a benefit of CHOICE.
    Again, I question your motive, because anyone cruising the internet using the pseudonym of “family” while showing clear disdain for equal parenting, fathers or any government benefit beyond the DPB clearly has an agenda.
    Perhaps without leaving your name, you could explain your situation or relationship with others who post on this site, so we can better help you or point you in the right direction for help.
    Just my opinion.

    Comment by xsryder — Sun 1st April 2007 @ 11:08 pm

  19. Thanks wayne


    I having been self employed, an employer and worked for others since 10 years old and now entering my sixth year with a burnt out body yet still FATHERING 1 Kid and standing Strong with others for family.

    I think I have enough experience to have an outspoken apinion of paying and receiving tax $Dollars and valueing Children.

    I beleive in **Equal** Parenting more than I believe in protecting TAX $Dollars – If you bother to examine my arguement to be able to **Eqaul** Parent my Son I am not actually asking for more TAX dollars – The TAX $Dollars are already paid to the X who does less than 1/2 the job and shirks as many bills as possible.

    Family, your comments are invalidated by your ignorance

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Mon 2nd April 2007 @ 5:00 am

  20. Julie,

    HandsOnEqualParenting from conception will block the damage that Femi-Fascism does.

    **Equal** Parenting does not take into account the Hands-On aspect which Javan thrives on and I am shown daily other Kids yearn for. Some of those in so called happy Families with tons of money and things but no Hands-On Parenting – The Hands-On aspect is also important in blocking Femi-Fascism

    The pill and any other protection against playing with nature is irrelevant to a Kid born into **Family Anguish**.

    Business deals with integrity are 100 times better than using charm to fulfil lust or gain a lifestyle at a Childs expense

    YOUR Femi-Fascist side is opening for examination here Julie

    Sex is rarely a **One moment thing**

    Time is not a factor in **Equal** relationships **Integrity** is

    Can’t answer your % question as it is spun in such a way that to answer is to agree with a wrong assumption

    Onward — Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Mon 2nd April 2007 @ 5:21 am

  21. Sparx, (Comment 10)
    Right-On Bro
    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Mon 2nd April 2007 @ 5:35 am

  22. Jim,

    I had never thought about how far or how important feminism actually goes. It once seemed so basic.

    I can remember one of the earlier comments I received saying, “Most women don’t last in the men’s movement because they have to sacrafice much.” Didn’t understand that completely I guess.

    You say men can only speak for men and women can only speak for women. That shows why the 2 movements are seperate. They don’t work together because they can’t. How fascinating. Both sides at least agree on this.

    Is my feminist side showing. Ooops, how ???, what. What should it be? Should it be BAD. Oh, God, here we go again. Every group has its way of doing things and thinking. Everyone is right but if you disagree you are BAD. I am so sick of this sort of attitude.

    Well, I will add your name to the many other people who also think I am BAD and I will laugh about it amongst all the other BAD people doing well in life. But not to other’s standards.

    You have given me an out and it would be in my own best interest to take it. Don’t have the heart to sit on my butt only so it will cost me to care. Yo have saved my costs. Thanx.

    Comment by julie — Mon 2nd April 2007 @ 6:12 pm

  23. I have watched the comments on the quote from Judith Collins with interest. Over Easter I will post my own analysis of what she says.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Mon 2nd April 2007 @ 6:40 pm

  24. Scrap,

    We’re waiting….


    Comment by Ethos — Wed 11th April 2007 @ 10:35 am

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