My mommy smacked me.
With the removal or alteration of section 59 primary school teachers will face new challenges.
Q. If a child reports to a teacher, that “my mommy smacked me”, is the teacher obliged to report this to the police?
Q. Will it be education policy that teachers report any child’s complaint to the police?
Q. Will it be an employment issue is a teacher does not report a child’s complaint?
Q. If a child’s complaint is reported to the police, will the child be interviewed without the parent’s knowledge?
Q. Who will interview the child, the police, a psychologist, Child Youth and family, or any or all of the above?
Q. If a prosecution is brought, will the child be allowed to return to their home that day?
Q. If a mother is arrested will the father be considered a safe parent?
Q. Will the child be allowed to go home but the not the mother?
Q. If a complaint is taken will either parent be allowed to talk to the teacher who is a witness?
Q. If the child complainant is a twin will the twin or any other siblings be interviewed?
Q. Will the child be expected to give evidence against the parent?
Q. At what age is the child a competent witness?
Q. At what age is the child a compellable witness.
Q. Which court will have jurisdiction, at what age, family court or district court?
Q. Will teachers tell children that if you are smacked at home you can ring the police on 111, so they don’t get put in a difficult position?
Q. Will it be police policy to prosecute in every teachers report in the interests of child safety?
Q. Will children move classes so teachers will make these reports don’t have to deal with the parents whom they have reported?
Q. Will the really abusive parents tend not to send their children to school?
Q. How many teacher days will be lost to court appearances?
It is not just a case of changing the law, how will these situations be handled?
Surely it is better to slap a child with an open hand on the bottom once or twice in the nurturing childhood years , rather than face the daunting and often impossible task later of trying to reform antisocial criminals ?
A smack can keep children from crime says police leader — Sunday Telegraph 4 Mar 07 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=JXNKZL4HBM443QFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2007/03/04/nsmack04.xml
Comment by dad4justice — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 11:31 am
You missed the point completely…. What will the government policy be in these situations? We are changing the rules here, and that is about how adults relate to adults, and how these rules are administered and what the likely outcomes are?
These are situations that MP’s have thought through, and have answers for!
Comment by Bevan Berg — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 11:50 am
Bevan, Peter and all,
Until grass root Kiwi’s impeach this Govt and PROSECUTE anybody who damages the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY** those of us who have a glimpse of what is really happening to GodsOwn and many other countries are almost powerless.
So many come to the front line while they have a degree of **FAMILY Anguish** and then disappear without a thought as to what we leave the next generation
WE MUST build an ARMY to counteract these Laws and Social Policies that empower the hirelings of the STATE to do its bidding and thus destroy the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY**
BOTHERING -/- REMINDING -/- DEMO’s etc or lie down
Onward in Coalition – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 1:19 pm
I doubt whether the police will do anything in such circumstances, (eccept for when it is REAL abuse).
What is more likely to happen is that CYFS will come in and take the children away.
Welcome to Orwell’s 1984.
Comment by Darryl — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Social workers are entering primary schools as we speak. Teachers and schools have already said they cannot keep on eye on children’s physical, mental and emotional problems.
This received massive funding last year or at least the promise of it.
These social workers will be under CYFS. Intervention HAS to happen as the social worker will lose their job if they take a risk and get it wrong.
Only problem I see happening now is that this new law will most likely be under FC instead of Criminal law. At least under criminal you can make a case of doubt.
Under FC, the child doesn’t have a voice. The system is the child’s voice. Being Psychiatrsts, Psychologists, lawyers and more. Have you not been watching what has been going on? LOL This is not a Green’s policy, it is the sisterhood. Been going on for a couple of years now. All is set in place.
Comment by julie — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 2:36 pm
Darryl,
The police will HAVE to take this as serious as they do DV against women.
Have you been watching the increase of police? Do you really think they are there to prevent crime? Have you not noticed how we are have been sold the Drug Busts and the guns involved? This is a scam. I have seen it before in Australia back when Bob Hawke was Prime Minister. It is a screen to get us of the scent for what is really going on. It is a political move. I wouldn’t be suprised if West Auckland has aleady got a devision solely for child abuse. Man alive has been receiving more funding and so has CYFS. A major network is happening to cope with this. So that IMO we see the state to be better parents than families.
Helen Clark and co have been increasing the amount of people entering the country so that we don’t notice the drop in child births which could increase family awareness. I am totally 100% into seeing all moves as conspiracy. And I love the fact that others in the MRA can see through it also.
Comment by julie — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Do not doubt what the police will take seriously; there is only discretion in the absence of specific policy, and to avoid policy is to find onesself facing disciplinary action.
Comment by Bevan Berg — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 8:46 pm
Bevan,
I have to step out.
I came home after work to see my neighbour’s boy (18) with a black eye. I am aware he is going to prison (his single mother doesn’t care becasue she can’t cope) and yet I was trying to not care. I have seem him before drunk as and beaten up with a baseball bat. But this time I stepped in. I sat with him and am going to represent him in court as a victim because he has a single mother. I am going to play the feminist card. I have told him i will help enroll him into 2 courses. 1 for his license and one for his school C.
My son also got into a fight tonight and the police turned up. They know of the family that has knives and guns yet they do nothing because of their policies. I have to play the feminsit card. I just have to. Lives depend upon it. This site has taught me the power I have and it is too tempting to not use it.
Sorry Bevan but I have to do what is in my power. I have to play the victim card to save my neighbourhood. Please forgive me. I have to out the men’s movement. I wish there was another way but I don’t see it.
Comment by julie — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 9:41 pm
What’s with the feminist bullshit, you don’t have to be a victim to have a future. Give your neighbour boys a future, point in the right direction. He doesn’t need your feel good pity. Are doing it for him or yourself?
I’m confused about the rest of you post.
Comment by Bevan Berg — Mon 5th March 2007 @ 10:13 pm
You are right Bevan,
I don’t have to be a victim in myself. That is a choice. Everything I do is a choice. I should not be into politics because I can do more on the streets. That is where the help is needed. And besides there are enough people concerned about politics.
But by stepping up to help on the streets, I will become a target for judgement for those that are into politics.
I am out. I am going to get the funding and then my mouth will also be shut.
That’s my choice and I am going to stick with it. I will become another man live and I don’t care. i have made my choice.
Comment by julie — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 7:59 am
Bevan,
I think I should take some time out to consider things. I hate seeing what I see. My heart breaks when I see the youth hurt. If I could I would wrap my arms around them all. I know what is in stall for this neighbour to go to prison and I have a son to deal with today that has one or two black eyes.
This law change you wrote about in your post may be a good thing. I know Islander men that are violent because their fathers were violent raising them. I even know of one Islander man who almost killed his father at the age of 11 because he beat him so much. In my neighbourhood the Islanders are beating teenage boys who are white and Maori with baseball bats. They strangled a brother who jumped in to save his hadicap brother from being beaten. It really is bad. There are too many lost boys on the street pacing because they have nothing better to do. This is really getting to me. The cops know the problem and they know who is responsible. They walk away because they can do nothing. Parents don’t even seem to care for their children. Maybe the state does need to step in. I don’t know right now because I am upset. Not good to make a decision on emotions. I’ll come back in a few days.
Comment by julie — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 8:31 am
Beware Julie,
Dancing with the devil is a dangerous thing! You’ll end up a political chameleon like duplicitous Dunne.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 11:25 am
Julie,
You’re falling into the same trap that many of us have, and you will burn yourself out trying to help a few individuals, when there is a government creating an endless supply for you. Come to the realisation that when we create an environment in which people can succeed they will, but it will take people like you to step up to that greater challenge.
Comment by Bevan Berg — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 1:35 pm
Hi Bevan, (and scrap)
So much for a few days. I am a lucky single parent as I have support from older women. A bit like a few mums. Anyhow, I spoke about how I feel and once again got a kick up the butt. Something I call motivation yet frank truth and reality checks. My son is OK (no seeable damage) yet he apologised to me for he had started the fight. It seems my boys have a rescue disability as I do. LOL
They are my responsibility alone and other parent’s children are not. That is life and it has always been that way. Besides, I cannot save the world this way.
But i tell you, this funding is so temting. Did you know that one group got over $140,000 ($3,000 a week) to help 8 clients for the whole year?
This is what is going on. I even know groups that are charging the trustees out at $120 an hour. Crikeys. I could do alot with that sort of money and I would have alot more to show for it. The Government is throwing money left, right and centre into community groups to solve the problems. I have even been challenged that i am not caring for single parents if I don’t take the money.
By the way, I do not dislike Islanders. I like the christian ones alot. They have been great support for me too.
On another note. I spoke with a clinical Psychologist at Auckland University. There has never been study on effects to males regarding fathers nor their daughters. There is a study happening from a student on “daughters who lose their fathers” under supervision of head Professors yet it is a small study. Another study (from professor) is about to begin on “The effects on fathers regarding seperation” in Dunedin. This study will take 3 years. That is the normal time apparently.
They tell me that things will be changing over the next 20 years. They also tell me that there is no answer for the FC. This is all over the western world. They have a group of Psychologists (all University level leaders) who have tried to sort this out globally. They say, “Good luck” trying to sort it out.
Also, they are aware there are internet sites abusing them. They will not work with groups affiliated with this anti.
Comment by julie — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Oh, reason for not being able to work out FC is that there are too many variances. I suppose that means too many different situations as in age, gender, traditional people and ethnic traditions. No one rule fits all.
Comment by julie — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 3:45 pm
…….accept “Equal Share Parenting”……with the billions of dollars saved (sorry judges, lawyers, and psycholiflowers) going towards ending poverty…….IMO
Comment by xsryder — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 4:03 pm
xsryder,
I think we need to do a study on this ourselves. I know equal parenting is what you do and that Jim Bailey does it (struggling, somtimes) and that Scrap does it. And I have met a number of males on nzdating that do it. These guys work at home and for themslelves or have jobs that work around their responsibily. That’s why they do it, they say. Yet, what about the other men? Shouldn’t we know how they feel before expecting the law to force them?
And what if they don’t want to? Should we make them pay the parent who does more child care?
What the hey, I will do a survery on NZDating myself and then post my findings here.
Comment by julie — Tue 6th March 2007 @ 5:01 pm