Am I doing the right thing?
I’d like some advice on my situation… it’s a tough one, but then none of the shit NCP’s put up with is easy.
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I’m paying my child support and fair or unfair it has to be paid. My ex seems to put up all these brick walls and even though I am entitled to see my Daughter once a fortnight for 8 hours on a saterday she (my daughter) has opted to go home after just 3 hours because the ex decides to tell her about the exciting things they will be doing that day. Needles to say that my financial situation doesn’t allow me to do all those things…
I know most of you will be saying take it to the FC but who am I kidding? I don’t have the money to do that and no way of getting legal aid – same ol’ story and besides, what am I going to say to the judge when all they want to know is what is in the best interest of the child (read: what she wants not what she needs) and I’ll be back to square one.
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So, instead of beating my head against one of many brick walls each fortnight I figured I would cut out the middle man (the FC) and tell my daughter that I’m here for her when she wants to see me. My hopes are that when she gets a little older (she’s now 8 ) she’ll see what the ex has been doing and want to be with me more.
I love my daughter so much but it doesn’t seem like there is any other choice but to forget about visitation and let her decide what she wants to do.
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Your opinions, suggestions and advice would be much appreciated.
Hi Tigerseye,
My hearts really goes out to you. I am so Sorry.
Do you have a current parenting order in place or is the arrangement in place of just 8hrs per fortnight something that your daughters mother has dictated to you??
Comment by Carolyn — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:14 pm
First, Someone said “The best thing you can spend on your child is time”
Try buying your daughter her own toy box and maybe a special dress to wear at daddys. Let her know how much you enjoy your time together. Try baking a cake with her, and let her take a bit home to the other parent. Always refer to your place as home. Allow absolutely nothing to interfere with your time together, especially a new lady. When she goes to her other parent, give her a good farewell. Even if there is room create “Her space” i.e put her toys or what ever in it. All totally manipulative. As children grow they look for this attention, presents are secondary to love.
Never Never critiscise the other parent directly. Keep intouch with the other regarding medical needs. Let her learn that you are always there, even to the point of having something neat to go to outside visiting hours. Remember court orders are only bottom lines. You both can vary this as much as you like. A joint application to the FC will produce an order by consent if you wish. You can do this yourself – No cost. At all costs keep a diary of all happenings. This can be invaluable in the event of future problems.
Comment by Alastair — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:19 pm
The 8 hours is what was agreed upon in the very first FC hearing (which I had to pay off over almost 2 years). My ex was angry and like a lot of CP’s she used my daughter as a weapon against me. If I knew then what I know now it would be a whole lot different.
Let’s face it, when a sepperation first happens we are ignorant of all that can happen.
Comment by Tigerseye — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:21 pm
Thanks Alastair, the problem is the ex doesn’t really want me to have a lot of access to my daughter and when I ask for more time she (the ex) tells me it’s up to my daughter. How do you fight that?
I asked my daughter if she wanted to stay over one weekend and my daughter said “I’m not ready.” That doesn’t sound like the words of an 8 year old to me.
Comment by Tigerseye — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:28 pm
Dear Tigerseye,
What location are you?
Paul Catton
East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
09 271 3020
Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Tigerseye
My husband and I have experienced the very same thing. For 5 yrs weve been fighting to see my husbands kids more. The children were then 9 & 3. The 9 yr old girl is now 14 and went from wanting to see daddy all the time but wasnt allowed to now being 14 where she only wants to see her father when it suits her and its a bonus if she can get money out of him on her stay!!. This is all due to a nasty bitter mother who unfortunately turned this lovely kid into a stuck up little madam (who her mother put on the pill at 14!!!!! for goodness sake) I know its hard to say dont give up but weve had to. We see her every ftn for 2 nites even though weve obtained 50/50 shared care of her brother. She usually always ends up staying only one nite and going home to her mothers early on a Sun. My husband has had a gutsful and believes when she is older and can think maturely then she will realise what damage was done due to the other parent. No your right if the 8 yr old had encouragement from the other parent to see dad and enjoy her time with you then you wouldnt be hearing that come out of her mouth. Good luck Tigerseye!!
Comment by About time — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:42 pm
8 hrs a fortnight is not enough time to nuture a father daughter relationship.
A weekend a fortnight would be better.
Do you get involved in her schooling, Parent Teacher meetings, Sports days and Social events?. Your daughter will realise how much you care for her is she sees you getting involved. This is also something that the Mother cannot have any control over. Perhaps over time your daughter will want to spend more time with you.
Maybe on her next visit you could invite some of her Cousins and Aunty’s from your side over for a BBQ.
Try everything. Your daughter needs you in her life.
Be consistant and never give up.
Comment by Carolyn — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 1:45 pm
Sorry, but aren’t you producing a documentary? That costs money, surely spending it on your daughter would be a much better idea! Unless that is your business to make films and you aren’t pumping your own money into it and have funding or sponsorship then I appologise.
That aside, I am in a similar position. JUST DON”T GIVE UP. Fight for more. Organise exciting things for her to do when she is with you so she looks forward to that time. Too many fathers are just giving up and going oh it’s too hard. You have it much better than I do and probably a lot of fathers/some mothers. Sorry I feel for you I really do, it just annoys me when parents give up the fight. It’s all about the children!
Sorry I just realised how harsh that is, but really you asked if you’re doing the right thing and I don’t believe you are.
Comment by Scott — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Paul,
I’m in Wellington (Hutt Valley to be specific), I live about 5 mins drive from my daughter.
About Time,
Thank you for sharing, it’s a consolation to know I’m not alone in this scenario.
Carolyn,
Short of calling the school I’m never told about those events even when I ask and I’m the only person in my family that lives in Wellington. I agree, she needs more time with me.
Scott,
Your 100% correct, i am doing the documentary – and this is one of the reasons for it. The money comes from donations and proceeds from my book sales. You made a good point and I think everybody deserves to know where the money for that is coming from 🙂
Another good point you raised is about giving up… please don’t think I’m giving up but there has to be a better way which brings less stress to all concerned. I’ll never give up on my daughter but I also have to weigh the odds and do what is best for all concerned. I’m turning myself inside out with this.
Comment by Tigerseye — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 2:19 pm
I’m a man of my word and I appologise. Yes nice to know where the money is coming from. Good luck I look forward to seeing it.
My suggestion to you and all the other fathers out there, record make notes and copies of everything.
Comment by Scott — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 2:23 pm
You can write a letter to the School requesting that you get the weekly newsletters (Most shools have a website that you can access these from) and explain your situation, that are wish to play an active role in her education and support her at school. You can request they mail you a copy of her school reports as well.
Trust me you daughter will be chuffed when you know whats happening for her
and being there to support her on sports days ect.
If you do not have any immediate family where you live perhaps then you have frinds with family and other children that you could join in with for BBQ’s and get togethers.
are there any Mens support groups in your area? Perhaps they have family events for fathers & their kids in the same situation.
Do some internet research and find out what’s on in your area.
don’t beleive that you will ever give up and over time it may even get a little easier. Keep trying!!
Comment by Carolyn — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Hi Tigerseye,
I’m happy to help with Court aplications and cut out the lawyer. I have helped 100’s of guys like this before.
Allan Harvey
Union of Fathers (Wellington)
[email protected]
Comment by allan Harvey — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Tigerseye,
Am hutt valley based and would be hapopy to chat offline about this.
Ph 5860880 (Note it will likely go to message – leave 1)
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 3:37 pm
Mind control against children in Parental Alienation
Stanley Clawar and Brynne Rivlin have claimed in Children Held Hostage: Dealing with Programmed and Brainwashed Children that many forms of mind control are used in Parental alienation by one parent against the other parent using both parents’ children as unwitting weapons. This use of devastating mind control is often detrimental to children and follows them into adulthood by creating a chronic condition which the authors have named Parental Alienation Syndrome. (It should be noted that there is no medical or psychological recognition of PAS as an actual syndrome, and that the use of this term serves to reify the age-old practice of one parent turning the child against the other). The authors claim the mind control used in Parental Alienation often permanently damages or destroys the target parent’s bonds with his or her children. While this is undoubtedly true in some cases, in others, the alienating parent may be in fact protecting the child from an abusive or inadequate parent. These kinds of disputes are complex and the use of a simplistic term such as PAS can distract from the uniqueness of each situation.
The parental alienation syndrome is not currently considered a syndrome in the DSM-IV and the American Psychological Association officially takes no position on “the purported syndrome.” [28] It has been stated that the parental alienation syndrome should not be admitted in court, due to evidentiary and causation problems with its theory and due to the dangerous feeling of reliability and believability in this self-published theory. [29]
Comment by bull en a china shop — Fri 29th August 2008 @ 9:49 pm
Tigerseye,
8 hrs a fortnight is not much better than a McD’s Dad
Surely with James-N’s help and the many good men he has built around him in your home town you can move toward Week about Equal Parenting
Remember being the ideal DAD means being the male part of Parent 24X7
In the early stages of Equal Parenting you may not be able to be HandsOn, but you can probably work in with those DADS on the DPB in James’s group to at worse be in charge using known DADS to be there when you can’t.
I bought into a taxi business so I could control my hours of work better and took on drivers to fill the gaps when I was with my Son – They became great mates often picking my boy up in the taxi and sharing the load – I was not always HandsOn but was always in charge – In fact I have had dinner with 2 of those drivers tonight, 10 years later – they have become suregate uncles to my boy – Just hopeing to give you some ideas.
Mums saying she is not ready at 8 is Feminist bullshit
Dads should be HandsOnEqualParents from conception
So what if Mum thinks something different
Go for it mate start the long haul to Equal Parenting with the help of James and his local lads ASAP
They do great BBQ’s but can’t handle Speight’s Dark
Onward – Jim
Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 30th August 2008 @ 12:27 am
Thank you to everybody who has offered help – I appreciate it totaly. Hopefuly in the coming weeks and months I’ll be able to personally speak with some of you and get all the shite sorted out.
Again, thank you everybody! It’s a great felling to know your not alone.
Comment by Tigerseye — Mon 1st September 2008 @ 10:40 am
Hey mate, just as U said, be there for her when she needs you. I have been thru it three times with my three sons and now at 14, 16 18 they have grown away from there mum and her husband and we as four r very very close. The closeness comes from being understanding of your duaghter as she is being played emotionally by her mum. when she gets older she will see it. The more u r understanding with your daughter the more u will be closer. My boys woke up when they were 11 upwards… take it easy and enjoy yur life NOW u only have one shot at it and be a little more about YOU and wat relationship you have with whos close now……Take care….dont fight it.
Comment by Dave G — Fri 26th September 2008 @ 2:04 pm
Hi sorry to hear about your situation .but i’ve been there as well.in fact hardley saw my kids for the first year,eventhough i had the right to have them each week.it was tough but after a year they came to live with me anyway as they were spoiling her highlife.just bide your time and your daughter will see things in a different light.cheers
Comment by neil — Sun 6th September 2009 @ 7:38 pm
Sorry that message was for tigerseye
Comment by neil — Sun 6th September 2009 @ 7:40 pm