MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Child Support Believe it or not!

Filed under: Child Support,General — Scrap_The_CSA @ 8:54 pm Mon 9th June 2008

Question – How much child support does a female non-custodial parent who earns $197,000 pay?

Answer – The minimum- about $630 a year

Question – How much would a male non-custodial parent who earns $197,000 pay for one child?

Answer – The Maximum – about $17,000 a year for one child

Thanks to IRD a female non-custodial parent who earns $197,000 gets away with paying the minimum.

United Future Leader Peter, i’ll sleep with any political party, Dunne is allowing this to happen on his watch. United Future made a conscious choice to get under the political covers with Aunty Helen and become the Child Support Tax Fuhrer and this is what his Tax Police deliver!

Keep your eyes on MENZ for more Child Support believe it or not.




  1. Is there more information about this female paying the minimum?

    Comment by Hans Laven — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 12:23 am

  2. Hi Scrap,
    Is that true? It doesn’t surprise me but where did this information come from? This is blatant sexism…is there a vote I missed out on taking?

    Comment by Tigerseye — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 2:34 am

  3. Hans,

    I cant publish any other information due to the secrecy rules that govern departure orders.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 8:24 am

  4. Tigerseye,

    Yes, it is true.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 8:44 am

  5. Wow somebody else that rank sexism is rife in NZLaw and Social Policy – Amen

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 11:47 am

  6. Oh my rippley, here we go, and peter has dunne it again. What did you expect from Helen’s little whipping toy, and he is happy being her occasional amusement.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 11:04 pm

  7. sexism is one thing but to make sure men suck the shit that these Venisians excrete publically is way too far.

    Women got what they wanted in womans lib didn’ they? We squashed the matriarcle society several thousands of years ago and now the swing is comming back and hitting us in the face. I don’t have a bra to burn and I’m not sure that the person to whom I give my vote will even be recognised in the MMP political climate so what the fuck do I do?

    Helen, you suck. I have a right to freedom of speach but you and your IRD minions are working hard to make sure my voice is horse when I yell at you! Your feminist ways of the past are killing this country and turning wife against man and child against father! You better have an answer for when I come knocking at your door because I intend to bring the whole sewage system into your living room. You may be polite and level headed but what happens when people start to see you as the feminine dictator you are?

    OK, I’m done…time for a beer.

    Comment by Tigerseye — Tue 10th June 2008 @ 11:47 pm

  8. Hi Bevan, Jim and group,
    Good to see you still active. The question I have is; what are we going to do about it?
    I realise that legislation must be changed before fathers, men and families can be rescued from the grip of Helengrad, but given MMP and the fact that Nabour and Lational seem unwilling to recognise the problems let alone make any significant changes, we have virtually nil chance of changing anything soon. Even if we can get representatives in parliament through the Republicans (or Family First for that matter), it won’t make an iota of difference if Nabour and Lational don’t support Bills passing through the house. Equal Shared Parenting (ESP) Bills have been presented to parliament before, but the “rich pricks” and the patrons of “Helen’s Gay Bar” threw them out. Likewise United Future’s Judy Turner is comfortable about legislating for ESP, but clearly the big parties will block the progress of any such Bill.
    We could campaign publicly (locally and internationally) to have NZ removed from the United Nations due to our judiciary refusing to follow UN conventions on the rights of children. The presumption of ESP after separation is in black and white in the UN articles, as is the firm agreement that the Family Unit is fundamental to humanity, contrary to the goals of Helengrad’s fuehrer and her Gestapo.
    We are left with little choice but to look towards the history of the feminist movement for ideas. Tiger’s Eye mentioned burning bra, which would have the greatest impact if the bra was still on the x-wife. My suggestion is that we meet in groups in the centre of our local towns, and at a pre-arranged time we burn our Court Orders. The papers don’t have to be the original documents (or for that matter even Court Orders). This action would simultaneously echo the actions taken by the feminist movement, does not include violence, allows fathers/men to symbolically free themselves from the shackles of the Court imposed Orders, and the action would provide a significant slap in the face to the judiciary. If this could be done throughout NZ at the same time (and possibly extending overseas) it would have a great impact. Perhaps we could do this once a month in the lead up to the elections, and synchronise it with other actions.
    Whatever we do, we are running out of time. After watching the news last night about the suggested police Protection Orders, it became clear that things are going to get far worse. If we are unable to unite and make our case heard in the next few months, then we should all start looking for another country to move to, because things won’t be any different under a National led government.

    Comment by xsryder — Wed 11th June 2008 @ 1:00 pm

  9. We could all join F4J and let Matt lead

    Sorry run out of ideas and energy – You young fellas have to run the show

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Wed 11th June 2008 @ 1:29 pm

  10. People need to be reminded of this

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

    Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

    Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

    Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

    Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in cooperation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

    Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

    Now, therefore,

    The General Assembly,

    Proclaims this Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.
    Article 1

    All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
    Article 2

    Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

    Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
    Article 3

    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
    Article 4

    No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
    Article 5

    No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
    Article 6

    Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
    Article 7

    All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
    Article 8

    Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
    Article 9

    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
    Article 10

    Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
    Article 11

    1. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
    2. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

    Article 12

    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
    Article 13

    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
    2. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

    Article 14

    1. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
    2. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

    Article 15

    1. Everyone has the right to a nationality.
    2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

    Article 16

    1. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
    2. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
    3. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

    Article 17

    1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
    2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

    Article 18

    Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
    Article 19

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
    Article 20

    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
    2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

    Article 21

    1. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
    2. Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.
    3. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

    Article 22

    Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
    Article 23

    1. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
    2. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
    3. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
    4. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

    Article 24

    Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
    Article 25

    1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
    2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

    Article 26

    1. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
    2. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
    3. Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

    Article 27

    1. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
    2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

    Article 28

    Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.
    Article 29

    1. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
    2. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
    3. These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

    Article 30

    Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

    ENOUGH SAID!!!!!

    Comment by Ben Dover — Wed 11th June 2008 @ 9:16 pm

  11. Good luck getting a NZ court to abide by that!

    Comment by Dave — Wed 11th June 2008 @ 9:43 pm

  12. My point precisely Dave? Isn’t New Zealand a member of the United Nations?
    Is New Zealand a signatory to the UN Charter of Human Rights? Maybe I
    should Google that query?
    Last I saw on TV, New Zealand was gifted Pineapple Lumps from the Almighty.

    Comment by Ben Dover — Wed 11th June 2008 @ 10:12 pm

  13. It is my understanding that NZ is not only a signatory to the UN Charter, but there was a kiwi involved in its development (correct me if I’m wrong).
    I have also argued that, according to the UN Charter, the child has a right to continue relationships with both parents, who are equal in terms of responsibilities and rights from the moment of separation until a Court Order stated otherwise. The Judges should have looked unfavourably at the mother who refused contact and in so doing, impeded on the child’s basic human rights.
    I was told that Family Court Rules over-rode the UN Charter, but it would be reasonable to expect that if any local rule or law should over-ride the UN Charter, that rule or law should be obove the minimum standard laid out in the charter.
    I even included sections of the UN Charter in Family Court affidavits and in letters of complaint to the Fuerer’s Leftenant Boshier, but I was ignored.
    Basically the UN and thier piece of shit Charter is about effective as the NZ Police force. While the UN and the NZ police force piss about ticking boxes and eating donuts, hundreds of thousands of Burmese folk die in the wake of a hurricane, and an innocent hard working Indian husband and father lies dying in his place of work.
    The UN Charter doesn’t protect children or men in NZ as it is, imagine how much worse it will get if the Fuerer gets a seat on the UN, or worse, the Presidency. But most importantly, the NZ judiciary not only ignores human rights breaches, but itself acts in breach, and for that reason the UN should be listening, but refuses. Unless a complaint is carried to the UN formally by a Human Rights lawyer (like Tony Ellis), the UN will ignore any complaint.

    Comment by xsryder — Wed 11th June 2008 @ 11:47 pm

  14. Lets see here…

    1. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

    When has that EVER happened?

    Also I found this interesting article

    “The Government has undertaken that, from 1 January 2000, all government policies and practices will comply with Part II of the Human Rights Act unless they are covered by some of the exemptions sought in the Human Rights Amendment Bill (No. 1). (This Bill was superseded by the Human Rights Amendment Act 1999 and, accordingly, was not enacted).”

    So, tell me if I’m wrong – did the NZ Government, back in 1999, try to apply for excemptions in the Human Rights Act???? WTF??

    Comment by Tigerseye — Thu 12th June 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  15. So, tell me if I’m wrong – did the NZ Government, back in 1999, try to apply for excemptions in the Human Rights Act

    Tigerseye, they did not need to.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Thu 12th June 2008 @ 9:40 pm

  16. What am I missing? What do you mean?

    Comment by Tigerseye — Thu 12th June 2008 @ 10:09 pm

  17. Scrap, can i email u?

    Comment by wendy — Fri 13th June 2008 @ 3:19 pm

  18. Tigerseye,

    Read the HRC website and focus on lawful discrimination which is exempt from the ACT



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Fri 13th June 2008 @ 9:53 pm

  19. The Republic of NZ Party is planning to have a conference in Hamilton about late July including a gathering for ceremonial burning of protection orders or representations thereof. A warm invitation is extended to all to join in the fun or just to come and check it out. I will post more details as they are finalized. There is also an idea of having stocks in which representations of Helen and other key vandals of democracy and justice are placed to have soft fruit thrown at them. It would be great if we had the attendance of some people in superhero costumes, signalling to NZ that the worldwide movement demanding fairness to men and children is coming to NZ. Attendance need not involve any particular support for the Party, but people might like to learn more.

    Although no small party is likely to stifle the family-wrecking and fatherhood-destroying laws being passed by both of our large deadbeat parties, votes for sensible and just policies will send a signal that is likely to wield some influence. If the two deadbeat parties see a voting sector emerging, that will give them some cause to take that sector more seriously. Take the opportunity to join in a shared voice, attract some attention for the fathers’ cause and their wisdom.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 14th June 2008 @ 12:34 am

  20. anyone for tennis…

    Comment by bullen a china shop — Sat 14th June 2008 @ 1:08 am

  21. The family court is guilty of unlawful gender bias and cruel
    discrimination. Non custodial parents are stripped of
    their money and dignity by a Court run by devious professional scum!

    Comment by dad4justice — Mon 16th June 2008 @ 9:44 pm

  22. All the family court / Child support crap was invented by governments THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, just for financial reasons, to pay for all the burgeoning costs of single mother families

    Comment by Martin Swash — Mon 16th June 2008 @ 11:41 pm

  23. Martin,Peter

    Huge Bureaucracies world-wide have been built to control the people – Making the majority think its to support women mealy takes the bait that sets the gender war alight and hides the real perpetrators.

    Most that have set the laws and social policies in motion that tear our society and families apart have been as deceived as those that suffer their decisions.

    Sue from the greens and Peter from United Future be perhaps the most obvious here in NZ.

    Great to see you still pumping Peter. Hope you’re still doing the knee work

    Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 17th June 2008 @ 1:53 am

  24. It makes me almost welcome a new major war with Iran all this crap that fathers have to face in the industrial countries. In previous world wars, there were good reasons to have been major advances for “womens’ rights”, but the next one will be a reality check for women, all this social engineering will be shown to be “castles in Spain”, the governments will want all the abused males to fight, it will all start with propaganda in the newspapers and TV, women again will be the weaker sex. But many of us know better now, we have been abused by the governments, WE WILL NEVER FORGET THE ABUSE THAT THEY HAVE DONE TO US, we will never fight for you again, get the women to do it !

    Comment by martin swash — Tue 17th June 2008 @ 6:34 am

  25. Martin,

    Righton – Women NEED current Law and Social Policy to be the bitches many of them are – But don’t be so sure that Men won’t be conned into fighting for them should the need arise – If Men were not so gulible to mummies early training we may have a chance.

    However I don’t beleive their is much real chance of equality returning until MEN take the raising of children seriously from Conception – Demanding Equality in ALL things family from the very start – Demanding that their essence be treated with resoect from the very start and doing the job of chidl rareing from the very start

    This is the only way to slowing bring a couple of generations of babies into the would that have powerful influences of Mum and Dad – Those influenced will eventually sort it out between themselves as people move back to valuing the gender differences in total rather than just the obvious physical differences

    I.E. HandsOnEqualParenting from conception


    Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 17th June 2008 @ 7:06 am

  26. Martin,all – sorry for the shocking speilling in post 27

    Right-on – Women NEED current Law and Social Policy to be the bitches many of them are – But don’t be so sure that Men won’t be conned into fighting for them should the need arise – If Men were not so gullible to mummies early training we may have a chance.

    However I don’t believe their is much real chance of equality returning until MEN take the raising of children seriously from Conception – Demanding Equality in ALL things family from the very start – Demanding that their essence be treated with respect from the very start and doing the job of child raring from the very start

    This is the only way to slowing bring a couple of generations of babies into the would that have powerful influences of Mum and Dad – Those influenced will eventually sort it out between themselves as people move back to valuing the gender differences in total rather than just the obvious physical differences

    I.E. HandsOnEqualParenting from conception


    Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 18th June 2008 @ 6:47 pm

  27. The hurt, pain and distress that i have been thru is unbearable, I am at my witts end, I grew up with a dog that was my best friend, when she died I was devisated. I have a daughter that I have never seen since she was seven weeks old, and now they are taking my son from me. It hurts, it hurts so bad.. and they have no right to do this too me. It is so wrong, if this is the law then they are wrong !! I am so upset, it is wrong. I would give any thing to my son and daughter. I love them so much, they are my little ones, they are my babies. When i was 11 i asked my parents if i could have a dog, we moved around alot, but finally when I was 15 I got my little puppy, she died when I was 24 and it was a bad time… now I know this is not a child, but it is the type of person that I am. I am a caring loving person, having my children taken from me is just too hard to handle. This is not a life this is just f%^king mental distress. But what f$%ks me off is that I can not do anything about it. I am just getting f%$ked over by the courts by the judges. I have done nothing wrong, My ex wants a state house and the dpb, she is from china, and thinks these freebees are quite good. I am getting f@#ked over and this sexist government is letting her get away with it !! I am not a happy camper !!

    Comment by paul — Thu 19th June 2008 @ 1:46 am


    Contrast Dads’ poverty with the 117 Million $ paid out to solicitors by the NZ government, most of which is for destroying families, at the behest of mad spiteful women. All the fees from desperate Dads is on top of that of course. It is big business for these snakes. Why do not more Dads become vigilantes ? Where there is no justice, there are vigilantes

    Comment by Martin Swash — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 12:20 am

  29. Yes it would indeed be revealing to compare the amount paid out to women in family court legal aid to that paid out to men.
    You could also add lawyers for the child aid to the womens’side as that is who they think they are supposed to be representing

    Comment by whanga — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 1:46 am

  30. For the past 2 and half years I have been in a situation where I have had at least one child in my custody and the mother has had the other 2 (or 1). For example from January 2006 – July 2007 I had 2 children in my care and the mother had one and from July 2007 until now she has had 2 of the children in her care and I have had one.. (M, my eldest son aged 17). I am considered a high income earner by IRD and am currently on $80,000 p.a. The problem is, they have never taken into account my very high expenses such as bank loan repayments etc. This is especially frustrating because about 50% of the bank loan was to pay for household items which my ex has retained possession of since separation. I have been down the admin review track many times and that’s got me nowhere and can’t be bothered wasting my time on it anymore as it seems to be completely anti male (especially males that are deemed to be high income earners). Basically my ex has been hiding much of her income and is only assessed on her PAYE income which she deliberately keeps at part time hours; i.e. under $30,000 per year. She has a number of part time self employed business operations which IRD aren’t aware of despite my attempts to draw these to their attention. I mean FFS I even gave them her businesses website address with her photo, personal details and business promo splashed all over it but good ol IRD didn’t give a flying F about her illicit income!! Different story if it was me who had an under the table business though I suppose. There’d be a team of investigators and bean counters working on ways of taxing me still further no doubt!!
    The Child Support anomalies that exist between her and I are ridiculous. For example, in the past year she has been paying me about $15 per week for M (the child in my care) and I have had to pay her about $240 per week for the 2 children in her care. When the situation was reversed and I had two children in my care and she had only one in her care I was still forced to pay her about $650 per month while in return she paid me a pathetic $120 per month (approx). How the hell were me and the 2 kids in my care supposed to survive with this situation!! The truth is, IRD didn’t care about us, they only cared about her and only cared about the children when they were in HER care!! This is total bullshit in my view!! It should be about the welfare of the kids, NOT HER!!!
    What really upset me and has prompted me to post this is the latest outrage from IRD Child Support. My son, M, has recently started a full time job. He was in severe danger of going off the rails, was performing badly at school, so we both agreed that he should leave school and get a job. It took ages but finally, 3 weeks ago, he gained full time employment. I am very proud of my boy because he seems to be doing very well in his new job. However IRD have managed to find reason to punish M and I financially for this. His mother has told them that he’s working and because of this she no longer has to pay her pittance. That wouldn’t worry me so much however they have added insult to injury by reassessing me and making me pay still more (about another $35 per week) to her in child support. I don’t charge M for food or board because I want the poor kid to have a chance to save some money and buy a few decent clothes. M and I have lived an impoverished existence, thanks to IRD and his mother, over the last 2 and a half years and I have had to borrow money off my mother on many occasions in order to buy food and pay the rent.
    Anyway I won’t bore you with ALL the depressing details because I am sure you have heard them all before. I was wondering though if anyone knows of any agency or individual who might be able to help me find some loopholes in the IRD Child Support assessment formula so I can pay a bit less per month so I can afford to buy luxuries such as food and rent for my son and I. I’m stuck with PAYE unfortunately. If I could get paid under the table I would certainly opt for that but it’s not an option with my current employer. Salary sacrifice is out of the question also. Does anyone know of a lawyer or accountant who might help me get some fairness out of a very inequitable system. Personally I have no faith that the NatLabs will change the current inequitable and anti male/anti father IRD CS assessment formula. They are all way too scared of the hairy lipped Feminazi’s and although peter Dunne has made a few noises about it I wouldn’t hold my breath. For me this is a question of survival. All I want is for the IRD to leave me with enough money to pay for basics such as food, rent etc. I am not expecting holidays in Fiji or flash clothes. Just avoiding heart palpitations every time I wait for my eftpos transactions to be accepted at Pak n Save would be nice! Can someone please help point me in the right direction?? Thanks in advance..


    Comment by Tony — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 9:18 am

  31. Tony,hope you have seen the thread about the documentary that tigers eye is making.Your case is a classic example of the way this sytem deprives kids.If and when you do another Admin Review you have to remember that it is not her income that should be taken into account it is her potential income.
    For example I have only made between $20 and $30,000 (because of health issues probably brought on by stress,and also because of the fact that the IRD has prevented me having a bank account!) in the last 4 or 5 years but have been consistently assessed at $60,000.I have been asked to pay about $15,000 per year.How you are supposed to do that on a long term basis when you only earn say $25,000 is anyone’s guess.Especially the way the penalties build up.Did you know that they take their penalties first before paying out money to the mother?
    One time they increased my assessment from $27,000 to $60,000 the next year despite the fact that I was off work for 4 months and actually earnt less that year.I went to the Family Court to challenge this but was told I was too late.The IRD cleverly timed their decision to make it in late March.By the time I applied to the court to challenge it it was already the next financial year and thus too late.I kid you not.
    So you need to apply for an Admin Review and get her income assessed.If you still get no joy from the IRD then push on to a challenge in the court.
    I am not for a moment saying you will get any joy there but at least you will be able to tell yourself you exhausted all avenues
    Your situation seems crazy.Not having money when you are earning $80,000 a year.
    At least you have a bank account.I could never have that luxury.With alleged arrears and huge penalties going back to 1999 anytime money went into any account the IRD swiped it.
    As far as the Nats are concerned I can only see things getting orse if you listen to that Judith Collins.
    Hope you have had a vasectomy by now!

    Comment by whanga — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 1:55 pm

  32. judith collins, oink, oink….

    Comment by bull en a china shop — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 2:28 pm

  33. Your situation sounds even worse than mine Whanga and you have my empathy. I have done my best to have her assessed on potential rather than actual earnings but the admin review tards didn’t want to know about it. Like I mentioned above I gave them evidence of her under the table business but they didn’t take any interest. The mother of my kids is a very highly qualified registered nurse who is working part time. I know for a fact that her employer has been trying to convince her to work full time ever since she started working there 3 years ago. She probably will work full time now that she no longer has to take any financial responsibility at all for my eldest son. What sucked mostly about the assessment formula and my admin reviews is that even though I was able to supply them with indisputable evidence that I earned MUCH LESS than I needed to pay my bills each week they still decided to NOT reduce my liability. I am quite sure that there is a gender bias going on in the admin review process. They knew damn well that the children in my care were going to suffer financially especially when I had two children in my care and she had just one. They are bean counters and it was blatantly obvious that I had a huge pile of beans going out each month and a relatively small pile coming in. I don’t believe for a minute that a woman in my situation would have been dealt with so harshly by the admin review officers. It would have been like; oh you poor woman, you are obviously being ripped off by your abusive and fraudulent husband and you are evidently a victim by virtue of the fact that you are a woman in this terribly patriarchal chauvinistic world we live in. I jest of course because, as we all know, the pendulum has swung well and truly against the males in NZ society who are now in a similar situation to pre 1960’s females;; i.e. we are all equal but some of us are more equal than others’. I know how much money it takes each week to feed, clothe, educate and generally care for children and I am expected to pay HER much more than this amount!! The money seems to go on beer, tattoos and a lifestyle that I can only dream of while the kids eat frozen pizza’s for dinner and are dressed in rags (apart from the clothes I buy them occasionally).. Personally I think the only way out of the dilemma’s that the likes of you and I are in Whanga is to either go underground and work in non PAYE employment or find a very clever accountant who knows of a loophole in the taxation system that will allow a % of income to be preserved from the IRD CS vampires!! I used to have a disdain for tax evaders and black economy operators but now I can understand why they want IRD out of their lives. These heartless Nazi’s destroy lives. Child Support avoidance is often not about greed but more about survival and a need for justice!!!!

    Comment by Tony — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 4:06 pm

  34. “it’s a jungle out there”

    Comment by bull en a china shop — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 5:44 pm

  35. Tony my answer was to give up on the kids and leave the country.Not that I was being allowed by the courts to have any contact with 2 of them anyway!Got to the stage that I was getting such nonsensical decisions from an endless line of case officers and judges that there was little choice.
    I have been reading more about this Collins woman on her website.Be very very afraid.

    Comment by whanga — Wed 25th June 2008 @ 5:53 pm

  36. YEP ….! Wot do ya do??? i have written many emails to many politicians, nat/lab, nothing,absolutely jack shit,been do in it for a long time now, but just the other day i thought wow these mongels have me were they wanted me all these years.
    I will be intitled to stop paying child support in the next 3 years, which is excellent since i have been paying Child Support for the last 10 years,and i was the parrent who was given full custody of my children by the family courts,but that all means crap when the other parrent has a shit load of money in the bank and is earning a good income, and can buy the children a load of stuff ,or what i am really saying is can buy the childrens love.
    But thats the way it is.
    The Ird can call you and tell you that the child or children are at the other parrents home and you now have to pay child support,normaly the next day after the child goes over to see the othe parrent the ird call you,,,you can tell the ird that you are the custodian with an order from the family courts ,, but they just tell you that it dont matter about any court orders you may have ,it works like this,, the money goes were the child or children are and thats the end.
    Cool….I earn $60.000 a year so the ird have delt to me well over the years, if i work hard and earn more , i pay more to the ird.
    So my x is still making money outa me no matter what i do, after paying my mortgage,power, rates, phone, child support, etc every month i am left with about $100 ,,,,people might say ,sell the house and have no mortgage, then you will have more cash!! Yep that might be the go, but i brought the family home back for my chldren to live in , as i agreed to do this in the family courts and the judge thought what a good man doing this for his children ,may have helped me get custody of my kids.
    But you cant beat the mighty dollar, and the way kids are to day as teens, will 90% of the time go where the money is,, thats teenagers for ya.
    So if one parrent has more cash than the other , no matter what the courts say or any judge or any order the children will normaly go that way,so even if the parrent who has the children has a million dollars in the bank they are still entitled to get child support from the other parrent even if the paying parrent has no spare cash left after living expenses hae been deducted.
    To add insult to it all,,you stop paying child support when the last child turns 19 years old ????? what a joke. is it not true that when a child turns 18 years old he or she is able to buy and drink alcohol,as the child is now considered to be an adult???so why does this government and its ird pest insist you pay child support for a whole year of the childs 18 year till they reach 19 years old is just a complete joke and says it all,, this is only geared as a revenue earner for the government.
    They drop the drinking age from 21 to 18 years old at a blink of an eye, and create mayhem for parrents with young people drinking and then tell us all that we parrents have lost the ability to be good parrents.
    Yep lower the drinking age, anti smacking laws, etc etc and we will keep taking child support from you untill the child turns 19 years old or is killed in a car wreck or alcohol related incident,,,thats how these governments work .


    Comment by Mark — Wed 1st October 2008 @ 11:54 am

  37. this is all so true but what gets me also is the fact that you get taxed on your gross income and then child support is worked out on your gross income as well. WTF we are getting taxed twice because my kids dont get any of it.

    Comment by Mack — Mon 23rd March 2009 @ 1:30 am

  38. That is true,
    We pay for WINZ benefits in our general Taxation and pay again for our own children through Child Support.

    Comment by allan Harvey — Mon 23rd March 2009 @ 3:32 pm

  39. i have worked out i pay in excess of 75% tax

    Comment by Mack — Thu 26th March 2009 @ 4:39 pm

  40. So called Child Support is a Western World well Spin Doctored Lie to funded fail FAMILY Law and Social Policy – It has only token if anything to do with supporting Children – So called Child Support is incredibly destructive to those who have it STOLEN from their Parenting Money, usually DADS although a growing number of Mums.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Thu 26th March 2009 @ 5:13 pm

  41. can anyone give me some advice please. my son is living with me for a year to get his school work on track. he is twelve and will turn 13 before his mother wants him back. he really wants to stay living with me but i cant afford a court case when hi mother who is on the DPB will get unlimited assistance from the courts for finanances. i am unsure on the exact process, how much it will cost and if there is a chance that the outcome will favour my son.

    Comment by Mack — Wed 23rd September 2009 @ 2:06 pm

  42. My advice would be also to go on the dpb for oyur son in your care more than 60% of the time. I hop[e he is or was not your former partners only form of inclome caus ethat troll will need to get some work then. if you work you will or may eligible for some top ups but if you have it in you to take a yera or two out of your life to get your son up to speed and over the line (even if at the taxpayers expense) do it. the tax payer is not the one doing the work with your son so you can asist him to be a productive memeber who contributes psitively to socity. It will be tough but you and your son will go from strength to strength. I know as I am with my now just turned 13 yo who has come for a year as well and the work, reward effort etc are worth the cost.

    Comment by Shaun — Wed 23rd September 2009 @ 2:45 pm

  43. If you have had the child for a year and he wants to stay with you the court isn’t going to force a change.
    Self-represent and it costs virtually nothing, do it with assistance of a group like Union of Fathers.

    Comment by [email protected] — Wed 23rd September 2009 @ 5:14 pm

  44. I seriously doubt that a women pays less child support than a man on the same income.You are ommiting something here for sure.

    Comment by Theresa — Sun 7th August 2011 @ 9:37 am

  45. my 18 yrs of paying child support i have never heard a woman complain about how much child support she has to pay..seems they can claim hardship and poverty and get assistance and or relief of payment till their situation seems considerations are expected to be shown to females financial situation..aww poor bitches….any considerations to mens financial situations?..i think not..women that run the system will help and assist other women but when it comes to those same women in the system helping put money on it that the outcomes are not so favorable for males

    Comment by Ford — Wed 28th December 2011 @ 6:45 am

  46. Ford, what you are saying sounds accurate, but in this instance Theresa is right (but not entirely). A woman on the same income who does not have custody of her children pays exactly the same in child support as a man.
    The problem is that women rarely earn the same as a man (they work less hours and they gravitate toward safe, lower paying jobs), and they even more rarely pay child support at all (because of a corrupt family court).
    For a woman, the best way she can get ahead financially is to have a bunch of kids to different high earning fathers, place false DV charges on them, and rake in the child support. Many young women have already figured this out and some of them are deliberately going down this road as a career of choice. How do these sluts get a pay rise…push out another kid, to yet another father.
    I got personally caught by a woman who did exactly this. She has 4 children to 4 different fathers (I was the first), and she is living with another guy (who is not biologically related to any of her children). The income she was earning from child support was enough for her to participate in the motor racing industry, a sport well known for it’s ability to burn through vast somes of money for its participants. In addition she used to travel regularly.
    When I realised what she was doing I deliberately lowered my income and now pay the minimum possible. Suddenly the travel stopped, and as far as I know the motor racing participation stopped too. I am now patiently waiting and building my income earning POTENTIAL to higher levels so that once I am free of the need to pay ridiculous amounts of child support I can go back to earning a reasonable income. Only 5 years to go.
    For me, having a child I did not want, did not choose to have, do not ever see, and who only exists because of the lies of a woman has been the single most expensive (and pointless) situation in my life. It has destroyed 20 years of earning ability, cost me the ability to buy my own home and left me in situation after situation when even when I was earning good money I was fleeced to such a degree that I was forced to continually live in a friends garage.
    So, I agree with Theresa, child support is the same for men as it is for women when they are earning the same, but since the family court routinely give custody of children to women, and since women earn less by choice the vast majority of child support is paid by men.
    Unfortunately the family court as it is has turned a woman’s genitals into an income earning device. Whether she sells sex, or simply uses it to procure passive income in the way of child support. In essence the biased family court has turned all women of child producing age into nothing more than everyday prostitutes. Even the ones in relationships recieve income for their children and the ones who do not have children have the potential for a pay rise based on a “contraceptive accident” (nearly 50% of which are not accidents at all).
    Until the family court is unbiased and gives custody based on the ability to look after children and not based on gender, women will continue to be nothing more than whores, and lets face it most of them are very happy to be nothing more than a state paid hooker, based on how few of them decide to do something about the system. And, then they wonder where the “good guys” have gone. Here is a heads up ladies, very few guys will marry a whore.

    Comment by Phoenix — Wed 28th December 2011 @ 2:36 pm

  47. Phoenix (#46): Yes, your observations are astute. Another important source of gender inequality in (so-called) child support (which is really mainly spousal support) comes from the IRD Review Officers. We have read various accounts here on MENZ from men who have been shafted by certain officers who favour women, most often by increasing some liable man’s payments at the receiving woman’s request but also by reducing liable women’s payment amount on the basis of her claims. We have heard accounts of these Review Officers going outside the rules in order to assist female applicants; for example, calculating in the liable mother’s expenditure on holidays, gifts etc when for liable men such expenditure is ruled ‘discretionary’ or ‘voluntary’ and of no consequence to (so-called) child support liability.

    There is no way to appeal Review Officers’ decisions. The only recourse is to go through the Family Court which is unlikely to behave much differently from the IRD reviewers.

    Another relevant issue is that women (from the last information I had) default on (so-called) child support more often than men. And you can be sure that women in arrears will get much lighter treatment than men when it comes to enforcement. I wouldn’t be surprised if Customs allow women defaulters to continue their international journeys at the border whereas men are stopped until they pay. It’s all just chivalry, greater care and empathy shown towards women’s needs and distress, and feminist capture of people’s minds. It is difficult to obtain the gender comparisons in official figures because government departments tend to repress or avoid measuring any statistic that doesn’t favour the women’s cause.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 30th December 2011 @ 9:47 am

  48. Огромный выбор таблеток для мужчин, гарантия качества, бонусы, а также быстрая доставка.Ð’ аптекаÑ… такиÑ… цен Ð’Ñ‹ не увидете…

    Comment by tablsruss — Sun 15th April 2012 @ 1:58 pm

  49. # say..’The problem is that women rarely earn the same as a man (they work less hours and…
    question? that due to them having periods?

    Comment by ford — Sun 15th April 2012 @ 2:55 pm

  50. Reply to Phoenix#46

    ..Your comment…

    ‘For a woman, the best way she can get ahead financially is to have a bunch of kids to different high earning fathers, place false DV charges on them, and rake in the child support. Many young women have already figured this out and some of them are deliberately going down this road as a career of choice. How do these sluts get a pay rise”¦push out another kid, to yet another father.’

    Bang…!!!!.Spot on Phoenix..!!!!!This is what exactly happen to my ex brother in law, and two of other mates who got done over big time by there vindictive ex partners Kiwi women partners..

    Well then Theresa?…Go ahead, and deny that this type of ‘sense of entitlement’ and ‘I am the victim’ demeanor doesn’t exist with in the Kiwi women delusional head space…!!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie, Free at last from this Gestapo feminist hell hole called N.Z

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 15th April 2012 @ 3:09 pm

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