MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Editorial identifies the key cause of our social problems.

Filed under: General,Law & Courts — Vman @ 6:32 pm Mon 8th June 2009

Excerpt from the Otago Daily Times.

(Skim past the opening religious stuff and you’ll get to some telling insights.)

The “Fathering Our City” report, written by Warwick Pudney and commissioned by Te Korowai Manaaki – Great Start Waitakere and Violence Free Waitakere, was released at the Waitakere City Fathering Hui on May 16.

The key finding of the report is that our major problem with parenting is absenteeism.

Among other things it concludes that: “For both boys and girls, love and dependency can become confused without a father; fatherless males are five times more likely to [commit] suicide; under-fathered girls are more likely to become pregnant; the under-fathered child is more likely to use drugs; fatherless boys are 20 times more likely to end up in prison and fatherless boys are nine times more likely to drop out of high school.”

In short, the problem isn’t how we’ve been parenting but whether or not we’ve been parenting at all.

Absenteeism is rife amongst parents – and fathers in particular – and the cure, surely, is not to penalise those who are staying in the game, even if they are doing the job badly.


  1. 1 The link is incorrect- leads to a different article.
    2 “Absenteeism” is highly offensive to the majority of absent fathers who are NOT ABSENT THROUGH CHOICE.

    Warwick Pudney is part of the establishment which profits by demonizing fathers, forcing “Anger management” ideology onto them, excusing and condoning female violence, and being part of the process of FORCIBLY REMOVING fathers from their families.

    Warwick Pudney does not have the mana, the respect, the position, to assist in the removing of fathers, then accuse those fathers of ABSENTEEISM.

    Comment by JohnBrett — Mon 8th June 2009 @ 7:51 pm

  2. The LINK above is fine John-B look a little deeper

    Warwick Pudney has huge Mana in the bigger picture NZ and Australian Men and their FAMILIES Movement. I have in fact seen him mentioned and praised in many other countries.
    I do not agree with your short sighted version of Warwick-P maybe there are 2

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Mon 8th June 2009 @ 8:00 pm

  3. I had a little trouble also, however sourced the original article. The “Religious stuff” I found highly relevant.

    Comment by Alastair — Mon 8th June 2009 @ 9:26 pm

  4. There are several possibilities here as far as I can see.
    One is that John Brett is correct.
    Another is that Jim is correct.
    Another is that Warwick did make some statement about many fathers being absent from their kids lives not by choice, but it was censored out by some little femmy twit embedded in the media.
    Warwick is welcome here to explain WHY he believes so many children experience fatherlessness in NZ.

    Comment by Skeptik — Mon 8th June 2009 @ 11:12 pm

  5. Warwick, like 100’s of other good Men stopped wondering the world of Pauls, Chucks and Johns News long ago because of the twisted censorship taking place on these groups and other GateKeeper Evils – Dealing with mainStream media is no less a minefield – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 2:44 am

  6. The Key problem is State Enduced parenting is absenteeism, usually FATHERS.

    F4J – USA – Latest news letter shows clearly how.


    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 2:50 am

  7. Sorry to say Jim, but I find this statement very hard to believe.

    Comment by julie — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 4:02 am

  8. I am not looking for your truth Julie – I share mine, openly and honistly – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 7:13 am

  9. Sorry reword.

    The Key problem is **State induced Parent Absenteeism, usually FATHERS**. I assume because Women accept that State Bait easier, and thus are the main tool to destroy the **Whole Natural Biological FAMILY**, as is shown by my 9 years of ABUSE from WINZ with a case that is 10 times stronger than my Sons Mother.

    Latest F4J – USA – Letter shows clearly how.


    Second Key problem is the ToothLess NZ Men and their Childrens Movement that has allowed this to happen – Perhaps this is the KEY Problem – Men refusing to support one another for myriads of reasons

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 7:26 am

  10. That’s a strange comment back, Jim. Truth is reality. It is not a theory whether feminist or churchy.

    I just learn more of what people are about to try and understand why there is an ideological war.
    I personally think most men who are pro men’s rights in NZ would not consider this site a gate keeping site. It seems to me to be balanced on facts and science rather than power or gate keeping.

    I am horrified to be honest when I read attacks between mainstream people over ideology rather than things that matter like parenting and government control.

    I am extremely horrified that cervical cancer cannot progress over a moral fight of ideology and that men’s rights even represents an ideology war or even that of women’s rights.

    If your truth is not reality, then I don’t want to share it nor have to listen to it. And that is what I think keeps good men away. Not any man’s opinion that you don’t like.

    Comment by julie — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 9:52 am

  11. “State induced absenteeism”- Jim agrees with me- that’s was what I said at the start
    I said “Absenteeism” is highly offensive to the majority of absent fathers who are NOT ABSENT THROUGH CHOICE.”
    Jim hasn’t had the experience of the state removing his children, and accusing him of e.g. violence, or sexual abuse.

    Jim has had to make do with $20 pw less on his benefit (half the difference between dependant with and dependant without a dependant child. I can certainly see this as an irritant.
    But my fatherhood does not depend on a State Benefit.

    Compare this irritant with the humiliation, injustice and grief of having to attending a “Violence” program, seeing your children at supervised access, being told you are not a suitable parent, having your children told that you are not a good dad, eventually being forced to walk away from your family. Warwick Pudney is part of the process that facilitates FATHER REMOVAL.

    I have suceeded DESPITE pricks like him, and his “Man Alive”.
    Let we who have fought- speak.

    Comment by JohnBrett — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 10:01 am

  12. Correction – Hopefully John-B never advises someone dependent on WINZ – his advice is very wrong – However I have been over this many times with him to no avail.

    WINZ/CYFS -/- MSD are the biggest ABUSERS of our Children and FAMILIES by far – Causing more “State induced Parent absenteeism” – than all other NZGovt edifices put together.

    Until the so called Men and their FAMILIES movement wake-up to this and strand with us who challenge them and the MP’s who are supposed to Minister over them – We get know were.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 9:07 pm

  13. Julie – Go back to Uni and learn philosophy until your philosophy and your god/God are the same – We can then debate your/my truth with integrity and perhaps some ligh hearted fun – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 9th June 2009 @ 9:17 pm

  14. Jim, I have fought my fight. (9 years of it) and then another 5 to bring the family out of the fight.

    I am enjoying many things the men are doing religious wise and breaking up the gang mentality.

    All this philosophy and ideology fighting is not for me. I will just sit back and which ever men win, win. My side is not at war with your side and I can find a million more intersting thngs to do with my life now.

    I guess for me, I healed just by understanding why all this shit exists in the first place.

    And I did help men along the way so I paid back for anything I took. But good luck to you.

    Comment by julie — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 11:32 am

  15. Julie Et al,

    1 – If I am not right – Where are the many names I have suggested in the last week or so, who are in NZ leadership in this perceived Men and their FAMILIES Movement — Were is the real debate happening?

    2 – If I am not right – Where are the 6,000+ that we had on what we then called the FATHER friendly Data-Base? – I have changed its name to the FAMILY friendly Data-Base? and gone World-Wide since then – Made many wonderful contacts outside NZ and it now floats around 3,000. That original 6,000+ Kiwi’s has probably reduced to less than 1,000 – Where are they in these debates?

    I believe they have been driven aware.

    These issues must be debated and cures found ASAP or we debate in vain.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 11:51 am

  16. Jim, the virtual world isn’t real.

    I have heard what you say behind my back and I made out I was an idiot so they could say, “No wonder Jim is upset with you.” That’s how much I don’t want to be dragged into this.

    But if you want to debate, why don’t you start with the Maori and tell them that Jake the Musk was really the good guy. (Once were warriors) Go tell them that all the violence they saw in their homes is God’s way of life for them.

    The men have left because they are not interested in being God but just building a better world.

    Comment by julie — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 12:44 pm

  17. Julie – Don’t play cute kitten with me – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 1:06 pm

  18. Julie – Don’t play cute kitten with me – Onward – Jim

    But I really am a kitten.

    Comment by julie — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 1:55 pm

  19. I think that if the main focus was on “father absenteeism” THEN hopefully people will start to consider why this occurs. A rational person would then see that blaming and/or belittling fathers would not be productive. A rational person would start to ask why aren’t enough fathers involved and what do we do about it.

    I think that NZ is so far behind the reality of what matters to children that simply acknowledging the main issue is a massive step forward. I think NZ needs to get to that point before it will make any real progress because it is only until the issue is identified that most people will start to look at the causes.

    I agree that programmes like Man Alive are dealing with stereo types and not the bulk of the problem. It is true these stereo types are not helpful. I just think that several different boats can all head in the same general direction.

    Comment by Dave — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 9:50 pm

  20. Dave, State induced Father absenteeism is what NZ FAMILY Law and Social Policy is designed to do

    Its been a State Induced process for generations

    If Joe-Public was going to wake up they would of done it by now

    There aren’t much difference between 400,000 Kids without half their **Whole Natural Biological FAMILY** and 450,000

    The way forward is to build an army to force **Equal Parenting** deep within FAMILY Law and Social Policy and to ride it until its deep within Bureacracray including Local Body.

    Thus driving destructive to FAMILY Law and Social Policy and those who administer it from our Whole-World.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 10th June 2009 @ 11:48 pm

  21. No man can deny that there are absentee fathers, these are the bad men, the “players” that women have usually chosen to be the fathers of their children. But most fathers that are the vistims of these wicked familylaws are good dads, dads who have been abused by the government and have been forcibly denied access to their kids. Women have used these laws against good dads

    Comment by Ian — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 6:56 am

  22. Hi Ian, I don’t think absentee fathers are bad.

    Not all fathers believe in shared parenting or equal parenting. That doesn’t make them bad.

    I still hear some men say parenting is the woman’s job.

    Comment by julie — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 12:49 pm

  23. Friendship house auckland providers of D.V programs
    what a joke whats with the name friendship lolol I mean really
    these people are not your friends they are almost on the same
    level as a prison warden as they have in there power to breach you
    and have you brought before the court.
    nothing but low lifes an extension of an unjust system
    bottom feeders making a living at the cost of others
    To think there ideas can be forced on others is little more then a JOKE

    Comment by Shane — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 12:54 pm

  24. Kids NEED Equal doses of Mum, DAD and all 4 Grand Parents – Sign the Petition – Any less is a cop-out on somebodies behalf – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 1:49 pm

  25. DADS, MUMS and all 4 Grand Parents NEED Equal doses of their Kids to mature – Any less keeps one imature – Sign the petition – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 1:51 pm

  26. To force ideas on one that is not willing can only be classed
    as abuse

    Comment by bazz — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 2:45 pm

  27. you can not beat the system no matter what you say it will be twisted and used against you.
    Im not an abuser…………… Reply hes in denial…..
    until you admit something weather you are guilty or not until
    you show u have come around to there way of thinking you will be hounded and punished
    it does not matter that you may have been convected and sentenced based on lies
    from a unhappy ex partner.. she is feel your male that means your automatically guilty

    Comment by Jamie — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 2:50 pm

  28. Hi Jamie- are you in this stuff right now? I’ve been there- I know what you mean, I’ve certainly been there. You CAN beat the system- Stand tall, keep calm, put the children’s interests first. It’s all bluff- they are trying to face you down.
    Don’t accept ‘perpetrator’, ‘abuser’, turn these round to ‘unproven allegations’.
    Best interest of the children is definately WITH TWO PARENTS, WITH A FATHER.

    Comment by JohnBrett — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 4:16 pm

  29. Sorry- I didn’t finish-
    So, to the people who are making up, or supporting allegations against you say-
    “So why are you committing abuse against my children by trying to seperate them from their good father?”

    Comment by JohnBrett — Thu 11th June 2009 @ 8:46 pm

  30. Actually Jim, from memory I was mentioned as third on the list of potential leaders…and I’ll be honest in saying that I’ve been driven away by the likes of you and other anti-leadership virtual-world antagonists.
    You’ll remember when I arrived back from my protest walk to Wellington, a campaign still discussed on this site years later, and I made a B-line to Auckland to share with you the thoughts and advice of hundreds of supporters….and perhaps you’ll also remember how many words you cared to listen to…..not one single $%#@*#% word!
    Yes I’ve been driven away, and now I’m waiting for the likes of you to disappear so new blood can move in, get organised, get leadership, and get these issues sorted once and for all.
    For every day that you refuse that the movement needs leadership and organisation…..change is delayed by another day…..and another child is made fatherless. It is my humble opinion that those who are most vehimently opposed to having leadership, are those most unlikely to be chosen leaders…..ironic huh?

    Comment by xsryder — Tue 16th June 2009 @ 10:00 pm

  31. xsryder – Time will tell – I listened but did not hear anything that had not been told to me on 1000’s of hours in front of Family Courts, CYFS, so called Child Support and WINZ edifices all over the North Island.

    With Health and Money we would have gone Nation-Wide with the War-4-Kids WAGON and Jims Bus

    You have your kudos, many have, I have mine – Accept it, use it to keep your understanding of the issues before those who can make the changes and perhaps encourage the New Blood as you put it.

    I accept you’re back handed compliment as thow I hold the reigns of so called leardership.

    How about interpreting what I said the way I said it.

    Our learning continues I hope

    BUT at the end of the day we have made NO Progress – On that basis there can be no claim to leadership – No more than the DADS driven under park benches – Driven to the haze of alcohol and worse to suicide.

    If you remember rightly what upset you so much was me suggesting your walk as was my 1000’s of hours was a waste of time. My words were a compliment, placing you with the 100’s of good Men and some Women that went before us.

    The Empire of Injustice has produced 1000’s more Kids without DADS, one of them being mine, and many more missing BOTH Parents. Mark Shipman recons its well in access of 400,000 now.

    I am still standing in the breach as I hope you are, though more frustrated than ever with our powerlessness.

    Come sign the **Equal Parenting** Petition and get off my back – Its got enough to carry.

    Kiwi’s are obvious by their absents.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 17th June 2009 @ 2:12 am

  32. Jim, you can’t see or feel what it is like for others to deal with you.

    You have walked your journey for how long? 19 years?

    Many of us have just started. And seriously, you need to get it through your head that we are ALL working for charity.

    Xsryder walked to Wellington with a pram. It was a huge deal and he spoke with many people OFFLINE. The funny thing is that you helped him at the start of the walk and then you put him down like kicking a dog by telling him over and over again what he did was a waste of time. It was almost as if you wanted him to fail so he would come to you with his tail between his legs saying, “Oh mighty Jim. Man of all knowledge. Show thy humble servant the way”.

    That’s how horrible it feels to be around you online Jim.

    You did the same to me. What ever I did or whatever I wrote, you just came along and put me down. “Julie, you lead men up the wrong path. Julie I have already tried that, I know all”.
    You did it on every single post I wrote and every comment.

    It must be frustrating for you, I think. But we are not objects. We are human beings. If you can’t give respect, you can’t have respect. I think your journey has damaged you and I think you should let others have the chance to learn their own way. You can’t put your head on other beings.

    Besides, there are many ways to the top of the mountain. Your site and your petitions and your speeches to groups is just one way. You have to share the road because when it really comes down to it, you are the gatekeeper. You say we are all the gatekeeper because we are stopping you from controlling us. But it is you who is stopping the many from progressing.

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th June 2009 @ 10:00 am

  33. Damn. I think I have just described what it is like for men to deal with feminists. They must be pretty damaged because they constantly kick men like a dog by telling them how pathetic they are. And what is by far the worst is that they do put all men in the same basket.

    No wonder they get nowhere trying to solve the problems they feel are important.

    Men are not brick walls and they are not dogs. They have feelings too.

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th June 2009 @ 12:18 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

Skip to toolbar