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Judge Boshier links suicides to family break-ups

Filed under: Domestic Violence,Law & Courts,Men's Health — MurrayBacon @ 1:15 pm Thu 19th November 2009

By Simon Collins
4:00 AM Thursday Nov 19, 2009
NZ Herald

A top judge has called for more mental health support for people involved in Family Court cases after finding 18 suspected suicides by people involved in the court in the 13 months to June.

Principal Family Court Judge Peter Boshier, in a speech to be delivered in Blenheim this morning, also proposes a new specialist agency to refer victims and offenders in domestic violence cases to counselling and to chase up offenders who drop out of programmes.

“A radical rethink is required in the delivery of both prevention and intervention in domestic violence,” he said.

He identified 22 people involved in Family Court cases who died between May 2008 and June this year as a result of either suicide or homicide.

“Of these 18 (82 per cent) were suspected suicides, and 41 per cent of the deceased had been, either directly or indirectly, involved in domestic violence proceedings,” he said.

Three-quarters were also involved in court battles over care of children.

He said New Zealand should learn from an Australian system where court staff are trained to identify possible mental health issues during separation and refer people to counselling services.

“I feel for people that use our courts who eventually cannot cope and take their own lives. I am not only sad for them personally, but for the children they leave behind,” he said.

“I accordingly advocate a court which has a much better support facility than is evident at present.”

Judge Boshier repeated criticisms he made in February of programmes for domestic violence offenders. He said then that one-off acts in situations such as a marriage breakup should not be treated the same as “continuous or systematic” violence.

Only half of all offenders completed programmes, and he called for a new specialist agency to refer and monitor offenders and victims on counselling programmes.

“I consider that part of the explanation for this low completion rate is the fact that courts are in the business of hearing cases and making judicial determinations, but are not in the business of providing long-term social oversight of offenders’ rehabilitation,” he said.

“An insightful approach would be to have the courts hear an application and make any relevant orders, but for consideration of the appropriate programme and follow-up to be the preserve of a wholly different agency.”

Domestic violence agencies agreed court workers should be trained to refer people with potential mental health issues to counsellors.

But National Network of Stopping Violence Services manager Brian Gardner, Women’s Refuge chief executive Heather Henare and Jane Drumm of the Auckland domestic violence agency Shine all questioned the judge’s call for a new agency.

“My concern is I don’t believe we need another layer,” Mr Gardner said.
By Simon Collins

It is pleasing that some positive action is being taken, by a judge.

If you don’t take responsibility, then you are not likely to properly address the problems.

Generally, men are not accepting their responsibility, to care for their brothers, who work their way through separation and especially have to deal with “judges” in familycaught.

I have tried to show a link between breaches of natural justice in familycaught and parental suicide. I have taken ideas from Dr. Viv Roberts and tried to detail the history and the statistics, to show that much of the breaches of natural justice are due to malpractice by “judges”. If I am right (still an open question), then culpability may be laid at these “judges” feet ie manslaughter charges?

If you are interested to understand this case, I can EMAIL to you the DV submission that I submitted to Justice Department, about 2 years ago.

If “judges” don’t take responsibility for their actions, then they are not likely to properly address their problems.

I respectfully suggest that rather than support people after their relative has committed suicide, why don’t we address the problems in familycaught, in “hearing” evidence competently and getting decisions right in the first place!!!????

Cheers, MurrayBacon.


  1. We have a Family Court thrust upon us by a corrupt, immoral and socialist cabal nearly four decades ago that has consumed BILLIONS of taxpayer’s dollars and contributed to the ruination of family life and values. It is not a ‘no-fault’ divorce system so much as a unilateral one that assumes fault in the innocent party whose life is torn apart on the whim of the initiator.

    It is no wonder so many men suicide.

    No-Fault divorce was devised by the Bolsheviks in 1918. It was designed to destroy the Family.

    A society that cared about Family instead of simply mouthing mendacious phrases would spend TEN TIMES the money and effort on supporting families in trouble than it does destroying them. That we do not is a testimony to Feminism and its declared intent to destroy the Family, aided and abetted by its Socialist thugs in Government – whatever the shade of Politics they mendaciously profess.

    The ‘helping’ professions that are suggested, the counsellors and psychologista who devise and apply such programmes, were compromised and captured by those self-same socialist feminists several decades ago. The programmes are anti-male before one walks in the door and if not cleaned out will simply produce more male suicides.

    Comment by amfortas — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 1:45 pm

  2. Refusing to participate in any part of the Family Court process should reduce the suicide rate of MEN significantly. Men don’t need more counselors. They need less Family Court.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 1:55 pm

  3. Two positives need reinforcing.
    1) The Suicide rate. Mens shelters may go a bit of the way. As most of us no nights can be long & lonely and comfort found in a bottle ……. And we don’t need to be told where that leads.

    2) The recognising of the levels of family violence.

    I believe an organisation, like the refuge and similarly funded is needed to support men and their children.

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 1:57 pm

  4. Amfortas, you are spot on. Communism is in effect Judaism. They will be the only capitalists with ownership of all the capital. Communism will be forced on everyone else. Russia that now has the symbol of the Star of David was chosen as their first country because they relied on the ignorance of the Russian people as well as their opposition to the Tzars so they could loot the country. The destruction of the family in the free world was one of their goals to assist the rest of their takeover.

    Comment by Larry — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 2:08 pm

  5. is it majority men or women committing suicide?

    Comment by ford — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 2:18 pm

  6. 3.8 Males commit suicide for every 1 Female in New Zealand.

    Suicide Gap

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 2:24 pm

  7. Not stated Ford, however overall Men have a higher suicide rate, men also appear to choose more violent methods (Less failures/attempts) and men appear les able to cope with sudden change in their lives. Unfortunately most suicide statistics are suppressed. Such as we have tends to be anecdotal.

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 2:26 pm

  8. Alistair, NZ is reasonably open with statistics about suicide. Ministry and Health offer a lot of information for medical practitioners and Christchurch and Otago Medical Schools do quite a lot of research. Also Auckland does some too.

    As suicide is a low level behaviour, it is quite difficult to identify all occurrences, even more difficult to reliably identify them all. For example, suicide not identified among car accidents is becoming a larger fraction of car accident deaths, as cars become inherently safer. (You just have to work harder and smarter.)

    I have the impression that more effort and funding has been put into women’s suicide, than men’s. I am not sure why, but I don’t subscribe to conspiracy theories. I believe that maybe women are keener to study women’s suicide issues and that fewer men study suicide at all, hence the outcomes that we see…..

    Why don’t you put in some study effort, to help redress the balance?

    There has been an idea that talking about suicide in public may encourage further copycat suicides. I believe that we are now coming to a more mature level, where constructive discussion of what has happened is seen as helpful, being careful to give focus to discussing where help is available. Also being careful not to inadvertently glamourise the escape by self-murder.

    Access to details about deaths is usually very difficult. Privacy Act and familycaught privacy are big barriers to anyone who is willing to put in the time and tears to study escape by self-obliteration. In most cases, after suicide, the family are too stunned, to be willing to answer questions from any ghoulish researcher. Even if they were willing, they cannot access familycaught files for their sibling or child. The only hope is that there is a complete paper file, sitting with the person’s suicide note. Oh that it was that easy. Usually the person dies, their relatives take a few years to pull themselves back together and the hole in the footpath that took them down – is waiting there for the next victim…***

    One of the reasons that men are less able to cope with sudden large emotional changes in their lives, is that perhaps the perpetrator has been planning it for some time. They have had plenty of time to adjust, they chose the time, but the person who walked into an empty house, had but a little time? I don’t believe this issue is inherent, just indicative of who does who. Look 50 years back and I think you would notice quite the opposite. Maybe in another 30 years, back to where we were?

    If we would choose to value men’s lives similarly to women’s, then I believe that we could make dramatic reductions in men’s suicide statistics.

    Putting women in the firing line for draft into armed forces might be one good place to start, Cheers, MurrayBacon.
    *** hole in the footpath – I mean of course the familycaught “judge” that triggered their suicide.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 3:34 pm

  9. Ministry of Health figures show in the age group 25-44 (which are the main users of the Family Court) male suicide runs at over 3.5 times the female rate. Union of Fathers asks “has Judge Boshier completed a gender analysis of his own statistics? If not then when and we wonder why not?”. “If he has then why does his speech today not include the research findings?” The New Zealand male suicide rate is the fifth highest of 13 OECD countries and Union of Fathers says “if 18 deaths a year can be attributed to Family Court proceedings it is good that Judge Boshier is finally awakening to the issue.”
    Suicide Fact (2005-2006 data Public Health Intellighence Monitoring Report No. 15$File/suicide-facts-nov07b.pdf

    Suicide — Social Report 2009 from Ministry of Social Development

    Comment by [email protected] — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 3:45 pm

  10. Is this the same judge that won’t look at huge injustices in the de family court?

    Comment by dad4justice — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:12 pm

  11. Thank you for that Murray. It is filed for perusal. I am aware that the police acknowledge that single pasenger fatal smashes are not seperately recorded. Off the record they speculate how many are deliberate (Autocide). Equally where is the “Dividing” line. I was involved in an incident where a man made a fatal error. Was it deliberate or was it accidental, or even because he was totally distracted. His Wife had left him that week. I had to go to the inquest to give evidence. Evidence was offered about no drugs or alcohol in his system. None was offered about his state of mind! You ought to have seen the simpering wife!

    The final vervict death by not following safety procedures. No reccomendation to or critisism of the employer was made! Equally, some decades later, again suicide during seperation, The Coroner (Still alive and sitting as a coroner) asked the family if any financial matters would be effected by a finding of suicide?

    Makes you wonder how many suicides are hushed up because an insurance policy could be cancelled!

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:12 pm

  12. Judge Boshier is a terrible mistake. Why does he not want to hear about his CORRUPT COURT?

    Comment by dad4justice — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:14 pm

  13. Unable to understand your question Peter

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:14 pm

  14. For Judge Boshier,
    Marriage Break-ups are not a novelty per se. Since the down of history families experienced separation and communities learned to live with it.
    The suicide ‘thing’ is however new since governements like ours decided to ‘help’ the process and take sides using all the arsenal of the law in the name of ‘What is best for the child’. This intervention is called the Family Court.
    For those of us who have experienced it we know what it it is. Anything but not the ‘Family’ Court.
    Suicides are just one aspect of it. You have murders of children and women as well, Children ending up as orphans, Fathers in Jail for sending a Xmas Card for their children. In one word, Family Court intervention is Madness.

    If you want to fix it, Talk to the people who have been through it.

    Make the reconciliation of Families the First attempt of the family Court.

    Make the judges bonuses dependent on the number of Families they manage to reconcile.

    Make sure there is an institution above and independent from the family court or the justice ministry that reviews Court cases.

    Make the violence Course an option for the takers not forced on people because
    a blind judge who reads an inflated affidavit prepared by Womens refuge decide in a split second that a person must do it or face jail.

    Make it that Protection orders are given only if there is an immediate physical threat in which case the seeker of the protection order should be relocated

    Make it that the protection order is for a maximum duration of ONE year!
    Make Sure the target of a protection order has got where to sopend the night and not just throw them in the street. and of course PAY for it.

    Make it an obligation to interview the person who is the target of a protection order by a competent social worker to establish the veracity of the
    plaintiff. Only after such an interview a protection order is considered.

    If the family COurt does not have resources than it shoud cease to exist.

    Comment by tren Christchurch — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:21 pm

  15. When did anybody in a position of power, want to hear anything that might lessen or undermine that power. The only weapon we the family courts victims have two wepons at our disposal, The complaints process, and media. The power of either is enormous. The trick is though how to use it. That is where our allies like Darryl come in handy.

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:22 pm

  16. Judge Boshier has done a lot more good work, than most of the familycaught “judges”. I have my personal frustrations with him and I would like to tear him to pieces, bone by bone, over a year or so. Definitely not quickly, not at all.

    However, as I know the type of people that he would be replaced by, I will wait patiently until he has retired.

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 4:35 pm

  17. The simple fact is Boshier is the front man of the system that is, on a daily basis, making men feel so hopeless and helpless after loosing the most important aspect of their lives they end up taking their own lives. As males in the family court system we are subject to being second rate or ‘dead beat dads’ for up to 18 years. Whilst we are being financially and emotionally drained by our ex’s and the government that goes out of it’s way to support them we get angry. The angrier we get the more fingers are pointed at us and telling the nation “See, told you they are angry people! No way will we trust these dead beat dads with our children!”. And on it goes. How bad do you have to feel to decide that it’s just not worth living? Think about that. On a daily basis the family court is making many men feel just that bad.

    How much blood on the countries hands does Boshier and Mr Key have to see before change comes?

    These men have killed themselves. A serious amount of mental anguish caused that.

    Comment by Tigerseye — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 5:11 pm

  18. What hypocrisy from Boshier – Senior FAMILY Court Judge responsible for the system that CAUSES Suicides, possibly DAILY. — Onward to exposing these FAMILY Destructive Bureaucrats within the FC, CS, WINZ, CYFS and other MSD Funded Govt Edifices and Hirelings.

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 5:52 pm

  19. Judge Boshier IS a Eugenicist in my opinion. I advise him to receive a triple-dose of the H1N1 vaccine, just to be sure that MANkind survives.
    Hitler: “There are too many Jews dying. I know! I’ll send them all to counseling” … IDIOT!

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 5:58 pm

  20. Judge Boshier has put out a number based on identified suicides, as seen from familycaught files.

    I don’t have easy access to all of their files, so I estimated based on Government suicide figures, for the last 30 years and correlating the increases in suicides to the changes in legislation or “judges” behaviour. My estimate was 100 to 150 men’s suicides per year.

    More recently, after reading about Juliette Gilbert’s suicide, I realised that when women are subject to sudden wrongful denial of access to their children, they are roughly as likely to commit suicide as men, in the same circumstance.

    Just think of it as about 4 x 44 gallon drums of lifeless blood spilled each year, but carefully small bits here and small bits there – so it’s not so obvious to investigators. These “clowns” have a lot of blood on their hands, through the last 30 years. Averaging about 1 person per “judge” per year. However, as it relates to the consequences of “judges” behavioural idiosyncracies possibly triggering men’s and women’s suicidal vulnerabilities, I would bet a smaller group of the “judges” do far more than their fair share….
    Christmas is coming up. There are quite a few children who would just like their mother or father back, Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Thu 19th November 2009 @ 9:29 pm

  21. Boshier admits his Court and his Judges are aware of the suicides they cause – Why have he and his Judges not been arrested for Murder.

    Is Murder not the charge for causing death by intention?

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 20th November 2009 @ 3:09 am

  22. I have not read Boshier’s speech; does anyone know where it is published?
    Notice however that in his media spin and interviews Boshier carefully avoids specifying the gender make up of the Family Court suicides. Even when Kathryn Ryan on yesterday’s Nine To Noon (National Radio) directly asked Boshier “who is committing the suicides”, he sidestepped the question and continued to refer to the “people” who suicide. Of course, it will be mostly, quite possibly entirely, men and fathers who suicided last year while involved with the Family Court. If there had been a significant proportion of female suicides Boshier almost certainly would have highlighted that fact rather than suppress it.

    It was sad though not surprising that Kathryn Ryan did not pursue Boshier to obtain an answer to her question. When the Boshier interview was played later on National Radio’s “Late Edition” it was introduced with a statement reporting the number of women and children (I think it was 22) who were killed by someone in the family or known to them, but the men who were similarly killed were not considered important enough to mention at all. The wall of feminism is held up by most NZ media.

    The fact that it was mainly men who suicided during Family Court proceedings will also account for the fact that Boshier repeatedly referred to the suicides as another form of family violence. If there had been more women in the suicide statistics he probably would have blamed the suicides on their victimization by men and the stresses of the Court process. But because the suicides were mainly men, Boshier’s recommendation (among the muddled range of solutions he mentioned) was to hit the men harder with bigger sticks to force them, without any proof, trial or conviction, to attend weekly periodic detention at feminist indoctrination centres.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 20th November 2009 @ 9:47 am

  23. Its like the old witch hunts
    Accuse someone of domestic violence, they must therefore be guilty of it. Any denials of being violent proves that they are violent not only physically but now emotionally as well. Therefore the original accusation is confirmed. Due to the denials force the denier to attend counselling against their will where there violence can be now demonstratably be shown. “Your honour if it pleases the court Mr ………… attended counselling on such and such date” Ahhhh knowing looks all round as only a person with a domestic violence problem would need to attend such a course, so therefore Mr …………… you are violent.
    Protestation of innocence are more proof of being guilty. So therefore you loose your kids/house/large chunk of income/peace of mind, protection orders if not already issued will be applied for post haste. All because your guilty of domestic violence. The accusation is the proof of guilt. Some councellor you have never met before will invariably regale you with tales of the abuse they suffered at the hands of some other person you have also never met and on that basis feel that they are now the foremost authority on all domestic violence issues. You will spend most of your enforced time with this person listening to their tales of woe and then suffer the humiliation of having them provide more confirmation that you are a violent person, Mr………….. you have a protection Order against you due to violence how much more persausion do you need that you are guilty. Everyone agrees.
    And if it all becomes to much and you top yourself in despair
    well there you go, the DV industry almost wet themselves in glee that they have been proven right! They see that driving you to such extremes that you would kill yourself as being………………..
    yep, you guessed it, proof that you were guilty in the first place

    Comment by mits — Fri 20th November 2009 @ 10:43 am

  24. Boshier’s speeches get published on the Family Court website.

    Comment by [email protected] — Fri 20th November 2009 @ 12:03 pm

  25. Boshier needs to declare any interest that he has, or any interest that his family members have, with any Pharmaceutical Manufacturer before he manipulates for any further punishment of Fathers using his Nazi-Styled Mal-e-ugenics Chambers of Family Destruction.

    He appears to prefer the soft-kill of psychotropic drugs to the blatant murderous pseudo-legal thuggery that currently reigns supreme.


    Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 20th November 2009 @ 12:24 pm

  26. Yeah – what he said!

    Comment by Dave — Tue 24th November 2009 @ 5:21 pm

  27. Judge Boshier links suicides to family breakups.
    Hey Judge Boshier, these men don’t need more mental health support,what they need are decent judges in the Family Court.
    The judges that you have there now are responsible for so many mens deaths.SO please don’t twist the facts around and make yourself appear to be someone who is concerned about this countrys despicable rate of suicide in men.
    If you had everything in your world taken from you like you are taking from so many men,your only choice too may be SUICIDE.

    Comment by Rosie — Thu 26th November 2009 @ 7:09 pm

  28. Please is it just possible that someone has judge peter boshier e mail adress,as i have a serious family situation that needs resolving. Thanx David

    Comment by david — Sat 28th November 2009 @ 12:24 pm

  29. David; I really don’t think Judge boshier would help. For one he has a habit of knowing everything and thinking that everything is rosy with the system and where it isn’t he can find some pyscho mates to get even richer. Secondly; I suspect you are a man, and we are talking about the New Zealand family Court here so your words are wasted. I would suggest you contact Paul Catton who helps out on here. Good luck.

    Comment by noconfidence — Sat 28th November 2009 @ 4:39 pm

  30. David,
    I don’t know what area of NZ you are in. Paul Catton is but one of many who can help. Incidently Paul Catton has no connection to Pauls-news!

    Comment by Alastair — Sat 28th November 2009 @ 4:51 pm

  31. His e-mail address is no secret but better sending to his PA.
    Send me an e-mail and I can provide.

    Comment by [email protected] — Sat 28th November 2009 @ 6:17 pm

  32. Hi

    Im a woman but Im supportive of men having access to their children.

    I was at a seminar recently on conflict between parents, and met a woman and lawyer called Wendy who said she has a practice in takapuna. She said she acts as a counsel for child and from the fathers shes met shes come to realize that men have no useful place, should leave it to the women, and just bow out gracefully.

    I found this attitude unbelievable, espcially from someone who has children’s interests in their charge.

    I havent been a fan of bothering, but its people like this that make me think its worthwhile, perhaps she should be a candidate. I think her firm was Galvy or something like that. Does anyone know of her?


    Comment by Joan — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 8:20 am

  33. Interesting you posted this as while I was in the shower this morning I was thinking how we have so little information of lawyers and barristers and their effectiveness. I did a google search and found the person I believe you mentioned quite easily (google: “Wendy Takapuna wendy law barrister”).
    However, this is not the site to be adding more name to though. I will research whether we can create a new repository

    Comment by noconfidence — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 8:53 am

  34. Hello Julie,
    It is great that you are supportive of men having access to their children. I believe the lawyer you are talking about it Wendy Galvin (

    You message is vague though. So please clarify the following:

    1. Why have you not been a fan of bothering (and with what)?
    2. Perhaps she should be a candidate of what?
    3. Just out of interest, what seminar was it that you attended?

    regards One

    Comment by onewomanDV — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 9:33 am

  35. Sorry I meant to say Hello Joan =).

    Comment by onewomanDV — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 9:38 am

  36. Reply to Joan…

    Joan, this type of mindset thinking is not uncommon both in our N.Z political system, mainly in the Labour party,just my opinion here, I have a nickname ‘The Labour Party’ for a number of years now, as the ‘The Feminazi Labour party of N.Z’… The Green party ,also the N.Z Justice system and the Family Courts….
    Joan and sorry to say this, the amount of Kiwi Woman who I have met and associated here in N.Z who also have this ‘Mindset’, where Fathers are not necessary, or even useful in a Child’s Life is not uncommon ….Is Damn scary…This mindset and thinking has been caused by, in the last 25 years in N.Z…..of ‘Extreme Socail Engineering Feminism’…….And I bet you this Lady Lawyer is a staunch ‘Feminist’

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    ‘She said she acts as a counsel for child and from the fathers shes met shes come to realize that men have no useful place, should leave it to the women, and just bow out gracefully.’

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 11:42 am

  37. …we have so little information of lawyers and barristers and their effectiveness: create a new repository

    This is a question posed to other viewers rather than a reply to you noconfidence.
    It would be a shame to duplicate work that has already been accomplished.
    Q. Has anyone else created such a repository or is anyone else in the process of doing so?
    Noconfidence and I will attempt to create a repository if no one else has created or is creating one yet.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 11:46 am

  38. Yes Jim,
    and what’s even more chilling is the fact that the vast majority of these guys caught up in the family court system who’re suiciding have NO BACKGROUND OF MENTAL ILLNESS.
    I repeat that again for readers

    The vast majority of these guys caught up in the family court system who’re suiciding have NO BACKGROUND OF MENTAL ILLNESS.

    (just let it sink in a minute or two)

    Of course there will be those who don’t suicide, but go off to a GP or psych unit and end up taking prescription psychoactive medication.

    Then there are those who self medicate with booze, cannabis, amphetamines or whatever they can get to alleviate the pain.

    Keep up the great work of bothering.

    Comment by Skeptik — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 4:11 pm

  39. Hi One, this has long been a dream (I Dreamed a dream) The Database would have to be relational, (Multiple comments on one lawyer). Access would handle it. I did start work but ran out of time, I could share & assist if you could take it on. Visit the files area of Pauls News and there is a very out of date databaseon another subject!

    You may contact me off list

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 4:23 pm

  40. Yes, refer to Pauls news files, and NO for reasons already stated.

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 4:26 pm

  41. @ Skeptik. In your opinion, do you think supervised access should be scrapped all together, even when there is overwhelming evidence of abuse and a guilty plea from one or both parents?


    Comment by onewomanDV — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 5:17 pm

  42. OnewomanDV asks me –

    In your opinion, do you think supervised access should be scrapped all together, even when there is overwhelming evidence of abuse and a guilty plea from one or both parents?

    That’s a very broad question which raises many issues simultaneously.
    I’m not really interested in going down that path.
    My main concern is that men are getting sent to supervised access without any corroborative evidence that they are actually guilty of anything.
    As others on this thread and website have explained the family court and DV services in NZ are riddled with folks all to happy to assist the complainant in shafting men.

    Comment by Skeptik — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 6:31 pm

  43. Before anyone critisises supervised access, take the alternateive – NEVER see your children.

    Before launching to much read Sir Ronald Davidsons report. Discover facts, instead of hysteria!

    Comment by keen.skier — Thu 4th February 2010 @ 7:51 pm

  44. @ Skeptik

    What alternative suitable solutions do you envision regarding you concern that men are getting sent to supervised access without any corroborative evidence that they are actually guilty of anything?

    In other words… what corroborative evidence is required to merit sending a parent to supervised access?

    This time you do not need to respond to me in the third person to draw attention. I am listening… =)

    Comment by onewomanDV — Fri 5th February 2010 @ 8:37 am

  45. Reply to Keenskier…..

    Maybe you,Keenskier should have the wonderful experienced of been falsely accused of inappropriate behavior on your own Children by your a bitter and twisted partner ..!!!

    I can guarantee you Keenskier you will singing a very different tune….!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    ‘Before anyone criticizes supervised access, take the alternateive — NEVER see your children.

    Before launching to much read Sir Ronald Davidsons report. Discover facts, instead of hysteria!’

    Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 5th February 2010 @ 9:21 am

  46. reply to OnewomanDV –

    The same burden of corroborative proof should be required as in any decent court.

    Let’s put it another way.
    Say I go to my local police station and say
    “Hey, I need your help. This woman OnewomanDV has stolen my iPod”
    What’s one of the first questions the cops are likely to ask?
    What proof can you give us of this?
    It’s then up to me to provide evidence that proof.
    However as we well know, any woman can walk into the femily caught and throw false accusations around. She might even ham it up a bit with crocodile tears and fearful big-eyes to the judge.
    Then the judge will oftentimes get scared that there might just be some truth to the accusations despite there being NO PROOF, only the woman’s word.
    The judge will then dole out a protection order or supervision of the fathers access to his child/ren.

    Quite why this whole sordid process has gone on for so long without being challenged as unconstituional as due process of law IS NOT given is beyond me.
    I’m no legal expert, and would appreciate a lawyer, solicitor or such explaining that to me.

    I understand the process of villification without justification of fathers goes on wholesale accross the western world. It is going to be challenged in the USA sometimes soon and may even end up in the Supreme Court there.

    Comment by Skeptik — Fri 5th February 2010 @ 3:30 pm

  47. These injustices are perpetrated on ALL males? Do we momen never suffer? Have you ever tried Self representing? In the process used all your feminine wiles, and lost? When you have you have you have earned the right to use the word ALL!

    Comment by keen.skier — Fri 5th February 2010 @ 3:39 pm

  48. These injustices are perpetrated on ALL males? Do we women never suffer? Have you ever tried Self representing? In the process used all your feminine wiles, and lost? When you have you have you have earned the right to use the word ALL!

    Reply to Keenskier

    Just my thoughts here Keenskier …Firstly, I know I have been extremely harsh and super blunt on this forum site…But I will tell you right now Keenskier,and if need be,I will look you right in the eye and say this to you….

    If a decent and a loving caring Mother was falsely accused of a sexual misconduct against her own Child/Children by her bitter and twisted partner as in her ex Husband ….I would do everything in my power to help her….!!!

    From my own personal experience,and thought my ex brother experience ….. I know from first hand experience, the destruction power of these False allegation can do to a decent and a caring Family unit…

    This a major issue I am really ‘hot’ on…Yes, this my so called Agenda…To try and stop this ‘The false allegation’ industry…..If any Man or Woman is found to guilty of making a serious false allegation as in Sexual Rape…inappropriate sexual behavior on Children ..Then in my humble opinion, there must be a serious consequence delivered to the Offender…..

    And please spare me the usual excuses made in Court such as….’I was Distraught’….’I wasn’t thinking straight’….’I had an appalling upbringing in my Childhood’…’I suffering from a Post natal depression’….. Blah…Blah…Etc…Etc …..There No excuse what so ever….or any so called justification……

    My answer to your question… ‘Do we women never suffer’….Yes, of course W …But ‘We’ all suffer in the long term Keenskier as in a decent society ……….

    Kind regards to you,Keenskier ..John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 6th February 2010 @ 1:12 pm

  49. Bugger,hit the wrong key….Again… I definitely need to get a new Key board ….!!!

    My answer to your question… ‘Do we women never suffer’….Yes, of course Woman suffer,and I will never denied that fact either Keenskier …..But ‘We’ all suffer in the long term Keenskier as in a decent society

    John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 6th February 2010 @ 1:17 pm

  50. I haven’t committed suicide yet. But losing custody of my child, being vilified and a DVO put on me for no reason has caused me to lose employment. To lose any enjoyment in life- I have spiralled downwards in the last year, can’t eat sleep. Judges, phycologist’s, lawyer for child all against the father. Who loses? A child her father.

    Comment by Stephen — Thu 16th April 2015 @ 10:15 pm

  51. Stephen, I can say from experience that I know that feeling you have. But I thought about the effect such an action would have on my children and I couldn’t accept that. There were 2 options left to me, to continue fighting for my kids or to give up and leave the country and forget about them. I chose to fight. It wasn’t easy but I perceived and I won. These days my ex realizes the futility of going to the family court and talks to me. I won back my kids. Don’t go down the route of suicide. Think of your child and how it would affect them.

    Comment by A dad — Sat 18th April 2015 @ 4:51 pm

  52. Yeah the last thing I’d do is commit suicide. Life can turn on a dime. It’s hard though. Thanks.

    Comment by Stephen — Sat 18th April 2015 @ 5:15 pm


    Comment by The Logical Song — Mon 20th April 2015 @ 10:07 am

  54. Stephen,
    Hang in there. Ditto me. Lost access, fought for it and got it, got a DVO, lost job, etc and got through it when I thought it would break me with the grief I felt. Many of us have been through the same things and I am sure you will find internal reserves you didn’t know you had. Focus on making things better little by little and realize that this point in your life is a moment and that things get better-just never as fast as we want them to. My ex did all of the above and much much more, and I am still standing and have a good relationship with my daughters. It has been a rocky road, and continues to be more challenging that I would like , but it is better now than it was.

    Comment by alanunknown — Mon 20th April 2015 @ 2:44 pm

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