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New Dad requiring info on guardian rights

Filed under: Events,General — Robbie Kay @ 2:11 pm Thu 27th August 2009

Hi. Can someone plse advise where i can find info my rights on me now being a legal guradian. I have just won access for my 20month young daughter. By the end of the year I shoud be having her on a regular basis every second weekend. I need to know things like ‘ how do i go about requesting my ex partner for taking my daughter on holiday?’ ‘how long am i legally allowed to have her for holidays’ am to be advised on what schools she is to attend ?’ and what other things am i legally obliged to know about the raising of my daughter by my ex partner ??????


  1. Well, well, well and congratulations Robbie.
    There is the rules, the legislation, good intentions and what mummy deems fit to let you know. They are all different things and time will tell what system works for you and your child.
    As a legal guardian you should be consulted about health care (eg who is your child’s GP and you can ask the GP to send you consult notes after every visit). Likewise education and schooling is your right to know about, be consulted about and for you and mummy to agree on, things like day-care choice, kindergarten as well as schools. Third item of guardianship is residence where baby lives, to some extent with whom they live with (ie you might object to the convicted paedophile who is also the local Mongrel Mob leader. Normally residence comes down to not moving more than 5-10 kms away from your place but it also may be about why the house isn’t fenced and has a steep drive which provides direct entry onto the motorway. Fourth item of guardianship is religion and if the child is to be bought up Jewish, Rastafarian or Pentecostal however this one is the most difficult to play King Solomon about and basically it is she does whatever in her time and you do whatever in yours but something like loping off a foreskin would be an issue the Court may see fit to rule upon if there were disputes between guardians. I bet the court would certainly have a view on female circumcision.

    In terms of what holidays the child can spend with you the answer to that is you can have up to 365 and one quarter days a year as can mum. Normally when there are two guardians this is impractical and the family court will not tolerate such regimes unless there is a real bad case of Parental Alienation been allowed.

    Best advice Robbie is you and mum work together, keep out of the Court and talk together and plan what is best for baby. YOU DO KNOW WHAT IS BEST and talk to mum to get a second opinion and come to final plans.

    Comment by Sanity — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 2:29 pm

  2. on a real note.. don’t hold your breath that what you say will be taken into account..

    Comment by karan jiharr — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 3:28 pm

  3. Chrs..Unfotunately Mum and I are communicating only thru our lawyers. She still cant accept that Im now part of daughters life…forever. Like with her child from her ex husband she knows how to play the game and plays HARD !. It also doesnt help shes an academic,drug addict and suffers from BPD (in my own humble opinion). So how do i go about organising a week with my daughter ? IF she simply ignores my request, will the courts be on my side ? chrs R

    Comment by rOB — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 3:51 pm

  4. honestly..No..

    Comment by karan jiahrr — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 4:57 pm

  5. Hi Robbie-
    First things-
    How did you reach the stage of LOSING CUSTODY?
    Did your ex, or the mother apply for, and win, sole custody?
    If not, applications for access are not required, not relevant.
    Most agencies will act as if mother has automatic custody- but she does NOT. Stand firm on this.
    Second thing-
    I endorse the remarks above to ” you and mum work together, keep out of the Court and talk together and plan what is best for baby. YOU DO KNOW WHAT IS BEST and talk to mum to get a second opinion and come to final plans.
    Third thing-
    If you are a good father, and she has problems, apply for Sole Custody yourself. Don’t use a Lawyer, self-represent, because you have a far higher chance of success. You should be able to get help from this site, a McKenzie friend to keep you on track. Your Lawyer is there for his/her own benefir, to prolong conflict, maximise income. YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS IN THE LEGAL OR COURT SYSTEM- build a good case, get EXPERIENCED HELP and you should have it made, and be granting access to her.

    Comment by John Brett — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 5:40 pm

  6. Sanity’s answer covers all the pertinent points but from my own experience you will need to take heed of Karan’s as well to avoid the inevitable disillusionment and dissapointment.
    I’d say your first call would be to try and remove the lawyers from the communication process. Not easy I know.
    I found in my case that by stumping up with large amounts of $$$s in the guise of child support and then offering to have the child while she spends said child support on a weekend away for herself worked better at giving me access than anything spent with lawyers.
    Thats a shocking statement I know but its amazingly accurate in my case.
    I think over the next few months you are going to find yourself on the otherside of the looking glass here and are going to have a few of your notions of NZ justice and fair play savagely brought in to question.
    Keep your eye on the prize of time well spent with your daughter.
    Try and work with the mum but be wary of concedeing too much as any concessions you make now could come back to haunt you later down the line.
    A final note always keep the child as your focus and whats best for her.

    I wish you all the happiness and success

    Comment by mits — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 5:50 pm

  7. Just basing this on my own experience

    1. If your really serious about getting your Daughter for longer periods of time, eg a Weeks holiday, or even just getting a weekend, your in for a long road.

    2. If the mother says here you go you can have her for the weekend, then decieds 5 min before you are going to pick her up, no I dont want to after all, even if it is a court ordered contact, you have no where to stand, sure you can go through the process of getting a warrent to enforce, but then the court just turns around and says, its not in the best intrests of the child to have a police officer turn up and force contact to happen.

    3.Dont go though lawyers, they just draw the process out especialy if a party is on legal aid, its just a money making scam.

    4. Hope like hell you get a good Lawyer for child, that actualy cares about the well being of the child. and will do what ever they can for you to have contact with your chid.

    5. Dont get too emotionaly attached to the process, you will get kicked back down on various times, dont beat yourself up about it, just move on, and try again later.

    6. If it does all get to hard and you have tried everything you can, there is more to life than just seeing your child, move on, knowing that you have tried your best, keep all documents relating to the court process, continue sending letters, birthday presents etc, take a photo of them before you send them, and send them by track n trace and record that it had arrived, then when your daughters much older, and comes asking about you, you can show her that you tried your best and that you do care, then she can make her own mind up.

    Comment by nzleagle — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 6:18 pm

  8. First step is probably dump your lawyer unless you have very deep pockets.
    send me an e-mail to [email protected] and I wil send you some ideas.

    Comment by Allan Harvey — Thu 27th August 2009 @ 6:44 pm

  9. It also doesnt help shes an academic,drug addict and suffers from BPD (in my own humble opinion)

    If you really want a hope of developing a healthy relationship with your daughter you really have to keep this sort of talk out of your dealings with your ex, especilly as your child grows up. Your daughter will start to be aware of the viciousness and its not fair on her. Even if it is the case that all these bad things about your ex are true you stand a better chance of moving forward productively with your ex outside of the courts if you are able to contain your personal emotions about your ex. As hard as we know it is!!

    The more you can have a trusting, healthy reciprocity with your ex, the more you will be able to see your daughter. Going into it gung-ho will only lead you straight into the courts, and create further tensions that you won’t be able to overcome. The experiences of other men on this site will inform you that this is not a friendly situation to be a father in!

    Comment by rad_dad — Fri 28th August 2009 @ 2:09 pm

  10. Thks Rad…I extremely agree on attempting to have a civil relationship with my ex but unfortunately trying to communicate rationally with her will be very hard. If you could imagine a female version of Winston Peters – never loses an argument , full of charm, let alone yielding to anything you want. – But her weakness is her immaturity and on occasions losing the plot. – as i witnessed while with her many a time.. I am not getting personal, as she is in her affadavits, and am standing by my principles and morals. I am not a spiteful person, and am playin everything cooly. BTW – My time with my daughter has been immensley magical and have bonded. The supervisor in the centre even noted how she had never seen a child bond so quick with their parent – as in my situation. I know at home my daughter is not getting the attention from her mother as what im giving her. (this is from experience witnes1sing the interaction between her and her son), hence wanting to have my daughter experience whats its like to live in a loving,drug free, violence free home….

    Comment by robbie — Fri 28th August 2009 @ 4:21 pm

  11. If your ex does honestly suffer psychiatrically and opposes your daughter having you in her life then you’re gonna have problems forever. If I was in your position I’d be applying to have your child in your full time care, especially if your ex’s condition is a risk to your daughter.

    I faced similar issues after refusing to return home after being removed from my home & kids by the Police. I’d called them after she had been a spastic for over an hour … stoned and ranting like a farken idiot … in front of our kids … threatening her usual homicidal sh!t. She invoked the Protection Order that some incompetent Judge had given her to rule her kingdom and the girly-men made me leave instead of arresting her. Their incompetence caused further abuse to my children.

    It took me 2 1/2yrs and $10,500 in the Girz Court before I won custody. She has an undiagnosed psychiatric condition, is a drug addict and is fully indoctrinated with Women’s Refuges feminazi propaganda. Her legal aid lawyer ripped the taxpayer off for thousands with her continuing to apply for legal aid fund$ to represent perjury and delusion. She only helped cause further harm to my children. I won custody anyway and you can too.

    Don’t be farked around by her. If your daughter can’t see you because her mother has issues, that is child abuse. Don’t tolerate it. I’d be clear with her that if she interferes with your access then your only other option is to apply to have your child live with you full time.

    My children are often overwhelmed when trying to defend themselves against delusional accusations initiated by their mother. I’ve taught them to simply explain that “Mum has mental health issues”. It has helped them immensely. My children have memories of their mother trying to kill them all, not just on one occasion either. Don’t wait for that to happen.

    I had an awesome solicitor (plug for Rohan Cochrane) but I’m sure I could do it myself for practically $nothing now….with a little help.

    Ditto with the consensus here … STOP paying! Self represent.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 28th August 2009 @ 5:37 pm

  12. Good on you. Just remember that your daughter’s welfare is what is important here, and that as far as possible, keep whatever is going on between you and your ex is sidelined. I don’t know your situation entirely, so it’s hard to really comment. But I would imagine, hypothetically, that by trying to argue about your ex’s mental instability and drug use in courts or through lawyers will only make her defensive and want to do everything she can to withhold access. Which is obviously not in the best interest of your daughter, and is the opposite result that you are looking for.

    The more your ex sees you to be constant and predictable, the more she will be willing to make adjustments to the existing arrangements – and ultimately the better for your daughter’s welfare. This means – despite every desire not to at times! – accepting that her terms are the terms, and by being regular and positive about paying child support and using your access time. Don’t buy gifts all the time either – that is a total insult to your ex, and your daughter really doesn’t care.

    And if all this, in the end, does not work – what comes next in the court process will be more likely to go your way if you can prove that you were doing all these parental duties regularly and positively.

    Just try to stay positive and controlled and the situation will be made the best it can be 🙂 Good luck!

    Comment by rad_dad — Sun 30th August 2009 @ 12:06 pm

  13. Oh, and if you end up in court – do represent yourself, but get legal help. Knowledge of The Family Proceedings Act 1980 and of the conventions of the Family Court will be essential, and in that regard make sure you have help from a professional. Also, have your affidavits screened by a lawyer when you are unsure about the content of them.

    By being represented by a lawyer in the FC you look aggressive rather than compassionate.

    Comment by rad_dad — Sun 30th August 2009 @ 12:24 pm

  14. Robbie: were you and you ex either married or living together when your daughter was born?

    If yes, you are her legal guaradian.

    If not, you are not.

    Either way, you are her Dad, and nobody else can be.

    Comment by Darryl Ward — Sun 30th August 2009 @ 9:57 pm

  15. “SickOfNZ”, Rohan Cochrane was the “lawyer for child” in my court case, i can tell you a different story about him . ALL THESE LEGAL WORKERS ARE JUST A CLUB and it is us who is paying for it all. He makes BIG BIG bucks out of all our misery, but they have to give dads lots of hope so that they continue to pay up. You can easily access the figures about how much taxpayers’ money that him and his legal partner receive from the NZ government published figures! His female legal partner has, how can i say, “little interest in the male gene pool”.

    He gave me a very cursory interview, it seemed to me he was very gullible and a bit dim, he was just going through the motions, He was taken in by the false charm of ex wife, despite me showing him the police and hospital reports of her previous violence. He seemed a very smarmy git to me, i was disgusted that he “acted” as judge at the eventual court appearance, nobody informed me that this would happen, i expected a proper judge.

    All these legal workers will say that they act “in the interests of he child”, although nobody ever checks what happens afterwards to the kids (of course).
    I hope that Cochrane is happy , ruining the lives of families for his own financial reasons.

    Comment by swashy — Mon 31st August 2009 @ 12:18 am

  16. Yep, it’s ridiculous to believe that legal workers know what’s best for our children. Self-representing is the way to go.
    Are you saying that Rohan represented your child but presided over your case in the capacity of a Judge as well?

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Mon 31st August 2009 @ 6:07 am

  17. Robbie,

    I have never noticed that committee Advocacy has much advantage other than encouragement toward finding out one has taken adice that has has taken one down a/many wrong tracks.

    If you care to talk your next steps over @ Ration Shed you be welcome.

    If you beleive your Child needs his Mum, Dad and all 4 Grand Parents leading toward being valued by their **Whole Natural Biological FAMILY**, read thru the Ration Shed HQ website first and see if we have much in common – If so the contact details are there – I prefer face to face or have a database that can offer World-Wide contacts for you to chose from.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Mon 31st August 2009 @ 7:30 am

  18. Chrs Rad. Everything through the courts so far has been going my way. I like to think as soon as get every second weekend access I will be able to cope without my lawyer. Even tho things have been extremely tough over the last year I strive to be the positive and happy person that I am. With all the momentum so far in my favour i am quite happy with the way things are going. Everytime things do get heated i do remind myself how beautiful my daughter is and the future we will have togeteher.

    Its easy for a lot of these men to say ‘avoid using lawyers…represent yr self’. I dont have the experience on how the courts work and right now im more than happy with what my lawyer and i have achieved.

    BTW – The state isnt paying for my legal fees. Chrs all for the feedback

    Comment by rOB — Mon 31st August 2009 @ 10:05 am

  19. There was a first courtroom appearance when there was a real judge, where i seemed to do well. The ex. had previous history of violence and stealing from me(in Belgium). The local Kapiti Union Of Fathers rep, Allan, told me that the Protection Order would 100% certainly be made final, so i gave my notice in at my work, sold my car and booked a flight out of NZ because of this advice. In the end, the P.O was revoked and i ended up with my sons for xmas holidays for 2 weeks, but with no job, no car, no more house.
    I was told to submit my plans for looking after my sons to Cochrane. So, I then rented a small house near their school and bought again a new car, brand new furniture and stuff for my sons, so that they could stay with me, as i expected.

    Then there was a second appearance and Cochrane seemed to be the judge, and he gave the ex, custody. I never quite understood what was happening, you just assume that since you are paying for your solicitor, they will act in your best interest. The ex had thrown me out of the first house with the P.O and had kept all furniture, she was an attractive woman and she used her expert charm on the local church and Allan (he had been to see her several occasions, which i thought was very strange at the time).

    I felt that nobody was on my side, I had received BAD advice and so i again sold my new car, left the house and NZ this time for good. NZ had become the land of the long grey cloud, all because of this violent, unfaithful, dishonest woman who could charm the hind legs off a donkey.

    Comment by swashy — Tue 1st September 2009 @ 1:08 am

  20. PS She is now back in Belgium, where she was recently thrown out of her Aunt’s house who had got sick of her not contributing anything to the housing and food for 6 MONTHS! She simply did the same trick as she did with me, paid nothing while taking the dole (3600 NZD a month in Belgium !!!!). She pulls the same tricks, borrowing money without repaying it, not paying her bills. But when you are VERY charming, you can get away with that, in the short term, at least. You will always find many more naive friends.

    All the money she had obtained from stealing my money from my wallet and not paying a cent to the family budget, will run out in 2 or 3 years.
    When in NZ, she worked at the local school and her friend signed on the dole for her in Belgium, sending the money by Western Union every month.

    One of sons is having trouble with bullies at the new school (he was VERY happy at Kapiti school), her erstwhile lover is not interested in living with her, and she is now talking about returning to NZ , although she said that she completely detested NZ when we were there (“Kiwis are all Savoir-Faire and NO Savoir-Vivre”). She goes to church every day and has become religious, which i thought was funny from someone who lied to the Catholic Priest who married us, that i was single and had never been married before. I never fought back when she was violent, if her next partner does, she will definitely kill him .

    Yes that is the result of Cochrane’s decision, all “in the interest of the child”.

    Comment by swashy — Tue 1st September 2009 @ 1:29 am

  21. The femnazi use femily law, the education system, media propaganda,… attempt to repress men from being fully human. The true motivation is absolute power, complete control, and money….not love, family, or caring. This social terrorism is a human rights abuse on a vast scale.

    “They use their love to kill ’em. I sees ’em every day all over the world.” John Coffey (Green Mile).

    Comment by Peter Bell — Wed 2nd September 2009 @ 11:14 am

  22. Moving story from USA about 80 year old white man bringing up teenage black girl

    Comment by martin swash — Wed 2nd September 2009 @ 10:41 pm

  23. That’s a bold claim to make without any substantive evidence.. and not particularly relevant to this discussion which was intended to offer advice to a young father.

    Comment by rad_dad — Thu 3rd September 2009 @ 6:22 pm

  24. uurrmm.. open your eyes.. look around you.. evidence is abundant??…

    Comment by karan jiharr — Thu 3rd September 2009 @ 6:30 pm

  25. Swashy your dead right about the lawyer’s bit, I initially thought this lawyer of mine sincerely cared about me and my problems. But when I was made redundant and couldn’t pay my lawyers bill as quickly as I use to — she was a right cow about it and started to degrade me 🙁

    Comment by mozenwrath — Tue 8th September 2009 @ 10:53 am

  26. Pffffffft don’t bother, guardianship means nothing, unless your ex is ok and willing to work with you. Seeing as you are on this site, I would doubt that’s the case.

    Comment by Scott B — Mon 14th September 2009 @ 5:10 pm

  27. The mother seems to be able to what the hell she wants, guardianship laws are just theoretical, as all gender neutral politically correct in theory, but in practice the kids go to the mother as far as the state is concerned. It makes economical sense for the euphemistic “taxpayers” aka the state to pay MPs and Judges million $ pensions

    Comment by martin swash — Tue 15th September 2009 @ 9:21 am

  28. can somebody please get back to me in need of advice

    Comment by CONfusd — Tue 5th July 2011 @ 10:30 am

  29. Dear Confused,
    This site does not reead minds nor can we communicate with you if you don’t have a handle. Union of Fathers does have an ability to communicate via e-mail try [email protected]

    Comment by Allan — Tue 5th July 2011 @ 5:45 pm

  30. Dear CONfusd,

    My similar response to Allan regarding the enigma.
    Contact if Auckland based as follows:
    “The Auckland Refuge for Men with Family.”
    (09) 270 9678
    E-mail: [email protected]

    Kindest Regards
    Paul Catton

    Comment by Paul Catton — Tue 5th July 2011 @ 8:18 pm

  31. Hey guys. I’m new here so here’s my wee story before I pick up my daughter from Kindy.

    When my ex told me she was pregnant I sat her down and discussed it…obviously women can keep thier babies if they decide to so I knew I needed to be part of this childs life from here on in. We discussed what would happen if we split up and together decided that I would have the majority care of this child (as shee has 2 others already)and keep all things away from court (as she was already there with the other dad). Baby was a month old and we went to the court…wrote a joint affidavit and a memo of consent…parenting order made. Done.

    At 15 months old mum kicked me (and as a result of said parenting order) my daughter out because I was not happy with her abuse toward the children (cot time at 6 months old for not stopping crying???)

    Anyways no problems after that. We shifted the days of care slightly and spent 2.5 years in this regieme with no issues whatsoever.

    Then Came Feb22 2011 in ChCh….my daughter and I lived in Bexley.

    Now after the first quake in September mum and I discussed what to do if it happened again. we Made an agreement (verbally) that we would all move to safe places (Mine Timaru) mum undecided but thought ashburton…so that we could easily maintain contact between parents and children.

    over 2 months my daughter and I were settled in Timaru then mum started playing games and went to court…lied and we were made to return to Christchurch.

    The games continue…mum even with held my daughter made up a feeble reason that I showed gross neglect nd is asking for only * hours a week on a Sunday for my care of our daughter. I have been my daughters main care giver for just over 3 years.

    So off to court I went, got warrant to uplift, and warrant preventing removal from country (mums husband is scottish) and applied to vary parenting order…just the days not the time.

    Mum is also angry that I put our child into full time morning Kindy because she chose not to discuss kindy or school with me and ignored my textxs to talk about it…in the best interests of the child I simply enrolled her…so now mum says That’sa gaurdianship issue…I don’t want her there!!

    Anyway…I caught mum out in her lie about herclaim of neglect..I got the copies of the Patient notes from the doctors that saw my daughter….surprise surprise….there was nothing wrong.

    so A 15 page affidavit of defence and 40 pages of evidence regarding everything…including the family violence from step dad, CYFS and other winess accounts, writing, recordings and heaven forbid Character references and tune has certainly changed.

    My point here is NEVER EVER EVER take your ex’s word for ANYTHING. be dilligent, record everything with times and dates…listen to your child and write down all the unusuall stuff they may say. NEVER drill your child for info. It will simply spill from tem if you say nothing, but be supportive and NEVER EVER EVER put your ex down to your child…the child will be getting enough of that from mum about you.

    Also…represent yourself. Some will say judges see that as Arrogant…just don’t be arrogant. Be child focussed, and disregard what is said about you and when you are accused of being verbal, abusive and not likeing the mum…just say this…”It is true…I do not get along with her…not many people that say such things about me as she does in her affidavits are people I would like…in fact people who say such things I choose not to know…but yet I continue to act ammicably for my child’s sake regardless of my thoughts of feelings for her mum, becausee it is my child that I love”

    Be child focused, record EVERYTHING, DO NOT LIE, show the child respect for mum (even if you have none)be child focused, do not put mum down…be child focused.

    Comment by Tim Stewart — Tue 7th February 2012 @ 10:04 am

  32. Tim Stewart
    I wish the best for you and your daughter.
    You are doing the right thing.Keep to the truth always and be child focused.You are on to it.

    Comment by Free — Tue 7th February 2012 @ 4:40 pm

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