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PAS yeah right!

Filed under: Domestic Violence,Law & Courts — Mikey @ 8:47 pm Tue 19th May 2009

 PAS…yeah right? is this for real?

My child hates me. “I dont love you and I dont want you to be a part of my life I dont want to have anything to do with you, uncle, xxxx, xxxx and anyone who takes your side you ARE an unfit parent so stay away from me you CREEP leave me alone this is harassement. Leave me alone your you WILL be sorry”.

When I ask my ex wife when I can see my daughter she replies “she does not want to see you and I will not force her”.
Anyone familiar with this?

Time ticks away. One month, two months, three months…In fact time freezes. My daughter refuses to see me, my ex does not encourage her to see me. When I make contact, I get told that I am “harassing” them. The belief that “we don’t need him” seems to be the foundation of her philosophy. I have been successfully alienated and it hurts like hell.

Now it seems to me that there are two beliefs. One. I deserve it. I have done something so immensely wrong that my child has reason to hold a grudge for the rest of her life and forgiveness will never be on the cards. She also hates everyone on my side. Two. She is convinced that there are two sides (as stated), the good side and the bad side. She needs to side with the good side, because the good side needs her help. Like a team player who feels a need to align with the team. If she leaves the team there may be consequences.

Speak to anyone about this and they think you are nuts. The child feels like this cause you are a ….!!

Here is the flip side.. My daughter has a twin. She comes to me half week and everyday after school. I have another younger daughter that comes to me half week and after school. I have my house filled with children every weekend. Kids love me! I am a good dad.

Why does my daughter reject me. I have asked her and this is my profile. “you sleep with whores”, “you abuse mum emotionally”, “you put mom in financial difficulty”, “you have put her in jail”.

Yes…my ex went to jail for a night. Smashing my car to pieces and then assaulting a police officer. You see, most angry people believe that you  “push their buttons”. My child believes and is convinced that I have pushed mum’s buttons.

If you believed my profile, would you choose not to see me? This is PAS…and why do some people do this? Because they want to hurt you by stealing your kids.

If anybody has been through PAS and knows what to do, please let me know. I don’t want my child growing up without a father.

And by the way…I stuck it out with her for many years because she threatened to kill herself if I left. Are my kids under the same pressure?


  1. Prental Alienation Syndrome is very, very real. The first thing you need to do Mikey, is know that it is real, and know that it is motivated by the guilt that the other parent feels but refuses to acknowledge, and that it is not your doing. Other than that, you seem fortunate to have the love of your other children that can see through it. Nurture that carefully, and the odd one out will eventually see what she is missing, and ask herself the questions that you are longing to ask. Hang in there Mikey – you have a better head start than some of us have had.

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:03 pm

  2. Prental – you like that? I think I just invented a new word….

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:04 pm

  3. Another problem is that when your kid/kids start to question the mother (I know it’s not always the mother but as we all know, it usually is) because they are starting to see through it, she ups the anti and starts with worse lies and accusations.

    Comment by Scott B — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:17 pm

  4. I see this is listed under ‘event’. Have I got the wrong end of the stick. If so, I apologise. G.

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:22 pm

  5. That line was used in my Family Court case “he does not want to see you and I will not force her”.
    re: son i that is 13 now that i have had absolutly no contact with him since he was 2 1/4. Only in New Zeraland people. Because things have gone this far, there will never be contact either, my choice now.

    In relation to my son, it is standard practice, this Family Court /Counsel for Child is a bigger can of worms than pigs making the six o’clock news.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:26 pm

  6. DAMN, NO SPELL CHECK NOW, corrected as “he does not want to see you and I will not force him”.
    is what it should read, don’t know why i am saying this, i do not care, but good luck Mikey if you do care,, i am not interested, period.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:31 pm

  7. Dear MikeyI am in the same position as you. I had a close and loving relationship with my two young daughters until I decided to leacve their mother because I could not stand her physical and emotional abuse any more. I have not seen my daughters for 11 months or had any contact with them until the Family Court decides on a parenting order application that has been sitting with them since 20 August 2008.I was singing them to sleep almost every night for seven years and yet the moment I chose to leave their mother, they sudden start telling Lawyer for Child they don’t want to see their father anymore and that I abused them.

    The bad news is the Family Court won’t rush to help you. Their concern and their focus is on women who are victims of domestic violence. The Family Court is quite black and white about this. It is geared up and equipped to only handle stereo-typical cases of traditonal male abuse, power and control. Anything else gets put into the too hard basket, or simply twisted to fit the Family Court’s anti-male, misandric view of the world where all women are victims and all men are abusers.It is a place where reason and commonsense play little part. A word of advice. Stop talking about PAS – Parental Alienation Syndrome. The Family Court refuses to recognise PAS, it will recognise Parental Alienation, but not PAS. I advise you to start referring to it as simply Parental Alienation (PA). There is a league of feminist pyschologists out there that dispute PAS and much has been devoted to efforts to discredit it as a “syndrome”.  I advise taking a more neutral stance in order to keep the Court’s ear. It is pointless fighting the Family Court on this whatever you believe is the case. It will accept PA though.

    Use the Care of Children Act (COCA) to apply for a parenting order and get a pyschologist report on your child.  COCA recognises children should be co-parented and will in theory support the importance of your daughter having a relationship with you. Your children needs the help of therapy to overcome her disorted view of you. It is her, not you that has the problem and unless she addresses it she will grow up disfunctional and struggle in her relationships with men. In theory, the court will actually support you, but be prepared (like me) for a long wait as the Family Court is totally overloaded and stuffed up with a backlog of cases. It is a gravy train for lawyers.Meantime, check out This is a Canadian website, the Canadians are very big on PAS and probably a world leader.

     Good luck, I know it is heartbreaking. I suffer every day and there are thousands of us who are in the same boat. Hundreds of NZ kids loses their fathers every year because our misandric PC society does not value fatherhood.Gerry

    Comment by Gerry — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:33 pm

  8. piggy, if you didn’t care, you wouldn’t be so angry/

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:34 pm

  9. your a moron glenn, if i cared i would take the access offered, i told judge patrick grace to fuck himself my fax, so get your facts straight before talking bullshit. I refused access offered.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:35 pm

  10. I rest my case.

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:37 pm

  11. You make no sense, by using cliche’s, so unoriginal.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:40 pm

  12. Glenn, you should really get your head out of your arse, i come on here in response to Mikeys thread to help this poor chap and you have to talk nonsense iin reply to my situation. What the fuck is wrong with you dude ?

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:45 pm

  13. I had no intention of upsetting you piggy. I was merely giving you credit for the way you obviously feel. I have no problem with how you needed to deal with your situation. This is Mikey’s post. Good on you for having an opinion. Becoming insulting doesn’t help anyone.

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 9:59 pm

  14. right Glenn, i guess the main point really is that it does not matter whether i care or not, i should be allowed that right of either despite what anyone else may think. I have the 11 + years of PAS at my side and i’m pretty fucked up because of it. May the authorities that be CARE and then we may see some progress. It’s not about me, i don’t give a snot about my situation, the child is the one being ripped off, my anger is there, no where else.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:10 pm

  15. The Canadians have an awareness day for PA. Thanks Gerry for your advice and others. How do you turn your child back? For every problem there must be a solution. This is a problem so huge and overwhelming that it becomes hard to rationalize. Do I walk away and forget about my child? The more I try, the more I disappoint myself and the more I seem like I harass.

    I see my child walking to her nanny every day and while I drive past her my heart is wrenched out, because I know I can’t stop to say hello or offer a lift. She thinks I am a creep.

    Before the separation we had the best relationship a father can have with his daughter. My ex is winning this game that I do not want to play. My daughter will grow up without her father by choice and there’s nothing I can do about it.

    Where is the solution. We are intelligent human beings, solve many problems…is this too hard? I need answers please. Maybe a strategy.

    Comment by Mikey — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:22 pm

  16. Ummm, you have put this under events.

    Where is this meeting being held. I would like to attend.

    Comment by julie — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:24 pm

  17. Thank you for that. I too have suffered from this P.A. crap. And I too, have elected not to see children because it hurts too much. And you are right, it is the child that suffers. I think that is what hurts the most. Yes, you have the right to feel how you feel. I didn’t care for a long time, or thought I didn’t, and I have been in this bloody Hamster Wheel for twenty years now and can’t see the end yet. But I figured out I do really care when I see my misadjusted kids as adults, and I don’t know them and they don’t know me. I gets worse, it doesn’t get better as they age. I sincerely wish you the best with everything.

    Comment by glenn — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:24 pm

  18. Answer is: be careful who you hook up with, there some real swine out there, both male and female, it pretty simple really. I REBUKE EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID, IT DOESN’T MATTER. I PREFER NOT TO HAVE A CHILD THAT IS 50 % SWINE ON SON’S MOTHERS SIDE ANYWAY.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:30 pm

  19. It’s all sour grapes in the end, can’t turn back the clock.
    So my brief 1 nighter on here shall remain just that, what have i learned tonight ? I wish you guys every happiness. My anger probably arose from having to read about the same old, same old happenings that others are always bringing to light, so repetitive, nauseating, rediculous. You think government minister’s may take more notice of such a website as and maybe even consider putting John Potter or Jim Bagnall on the New Years Honours List for their service to humanity. Deserves a laugh i guess.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:45 pm

  20. Dear Mikey
    I feel for your situation.
    I know you will not get adequate redress through the authorities who claim to be fair, but clearly aren’t.
    My own situation in this area is now 27 years old and with a son who left suicide notes and has not been seen in the flesh for neigh on 18 years because of his confused mind, says it all. And hey I am to blame for it all with no input from me for 27 years either.
    Not of my choice unfortunately.
    Beggar’s belief but it is so for me.
    Keep up your good fathering Mikey of the kids you can and always keep your door open for change.
    Hope it happens for you.

    I love it hearing men say they are good fathers.

    Comment by Henry — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 10:47 pm

  21. I was a good father too and the same thing happened to me. They are just stealing our kids, nobody is doing anything about it, if you read Menz from the 90s, nothing has changed , it has worsened.

    They want us to pay up for the filching of our kids and use draconian laws and false, hysterical “Domestic Violence” campaigns to do this

    Comment by martin swash — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 11:03 pm

  22. Many child clients in the Family Court appear later on in the Youth and District Courts.
    That’s hardly in the best interests of the child.
    PAS = insidious heartwrenching evil crap! Good money spinner for a sick judicary.

    Comment by dad4justice — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 11:06 pm

  23. $66.60 is my monthly child support assessment for the next year, how do they arrive at this figure ? Please do tell if you are privy to IRD calculations.. Does the money go direct to Satan himself, or herself ?

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 11:13 pm

  24. I was asked to leave my home and children by the NZ Police after I called them for assistance after enduring one hour of my ex-wife screaming threats and slamming doors and cupboards in front of my dependent children. She was stoned again. No, I don’t touch the sh!t. She had a Protection Order and asked that I be removed. I had to leave or be arrested. They knew she was stoned. She showed them her drugs. They knew I called them. They knew I was calm and did the right thing by calling them.

    The Police arranged a Woman’s Refug$e worker to supervise my stoned ex-wife because of concerns for the safety of our children.
    She had threatened to kill the kids once before. The Police searched for her and my kids for hours before I knew that they were still alive and well. Of course she lied to them. Of course they believed her. She boasted to me later that she had driven towards another vehicle to cause a head-on collision but chickened out at the last moment. My youngest was six weeks old.

    The Police had dragged her off once before after she smeared her blood everywhere and made a scene. A neighbour had called the Police. I arrived home to find my ex-wife cradling my two daughters who were covered in blood. A detective reassured me that it was her blood and my children were physically unharmed. I cleaned and settled my kids and stayed up until 2am cleaning blood off walls, doors and carpet. I had to have the kids at the baby-sitters at 6:30am before starting work at 7 the next morning. The ex-wife lied to the Police, telling them she had mixed prescription medication with alcohol by mistake. She did not want them to know that this was typical behaviour for her.

    I caught her adding the contents of some capsule to my coffee. It explained the recent very early nights after feeling whacked. I had to stop accepting drinks from her. Paranoid? She received diversion after poisoning her father deliberately. Jayes fluid in the casserole I’m told. One of my adult children recalls her mother laughing at her apparent attempts at poisoning me. I’ve suffered from irritable bowel after being hospitalised in 1993. The stress of living with her psychotic behaviour may have caused that but I will never know for sure.

    I imagine most of the readers here couldn’t possibly understand the nightmare I’ve raised my kids in. When I see these slogans “Protect our women and children” it angers me. I am evidence of a reason to “Protect our Fathers and children”. I was the only REAL protection that my children had. My children were exposed to abuse by a gender biased system that does not help protect them if their primary care-giver is Dad and/or their mother is violent or psychotic.

    PAS – does it exist and is it real? FARKEN OATH!

    There were letters presented to the Family Court Judge that were supposedly written by my daughter. Fortunately they were recognised by everyone involved as being heavily influenced if not written by her mother. The letters were all anti-Dad and supported Mum’s view.
    When I WON custody of my children the CYFS plan was to place my dependent daughter with an extended relative before having her join her younger brother and me. This was to allow for the reversal of the alienation toward me that had been caused by her mother, my ex-wife.

    She has two more children to her latest victim. He’s in jail for beating her up after enduring three years of her psychotic behaviour. I saved my kids. I don’t know who will save his. My ex told me last week that she’s moving location so the father of her kids will NEVER see them again. And so the cycle repeats… Judges, lawyers, social workers, counselors, psychologists – have comfort that there’s more $$$ on the way.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 11:27 pm

  25. I am amazed at the response and I thank of all you so far.

    I know that my ex can turn this over in a period of days by encouraging the child to go to her father and to behave in a sociably acceptable manner.

    By turning a blind eye to rudeness and stone walling, whether it is directed against the father or another person should be discouraged.

    Our role as parents are to teach our youngsters right from wrong at all times. A parent who participates in the denigration of another parent to the extent that the child rejects, by his/her own free will, without adequate justification should be punished in a court of law.

    This makes logical sense, because it is a crime against humanity. I don’t believe for a second that my child would reject me, or my extended family, if she had developed her reasoning skills and was able to comprehend her actions. Her sisters have contracted out of the game, but are under immense pressure.

    It seems like the quick fix is to change the alienator’s behaviour through education. The damage that is caused to the child is huge if not addressed, because he/she will grow up thinking that the behaviour is acceptable amongst other humans.

    Comment by Mikey — Tue 19th May 2009 @ 11:41 pm

  26. Yeah right… A male getting abused?… Let me tell you that there are women out there that know no boundaries. It is acceptable to punch you while you’re asleep, snoop through your wallet and emails, throw boiling water on you, blame you for affairs or try and hit you with a car or threaten suicide!! I know the adrenalin that flows through the veins and it ain’t good. Sometimes they have to fabricate a story and believe in it, to justify their wrongs for their own sanity. Believing in lies and then spreading them to the children to ensure that they too won’t leave, else they will be on their own and life is not worth living. Does that sound familiar?
    Maybe I am caught up in something that is too huge to handle. My child will grow up thinking that I drove her mother insane and that’s good enough never to see me again.

    Comment by Mikey — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 12:08 am

  27. Mikey you are not alone. Sadly your situation is like mine and all too common and ignored by all but those directly affected. I feel for you brother and wish you every success.

    Murray Bacon, a regular poster on this website, and a very wise and dedicated man gave me some excellent advice which I pass on to you. Keep your fathering skills alive for the day when your daughter will need you. Take every opportunity to be a Dad and good male role model to as many children as you can.

    I keep my fathering skills alive by trying to be the best step-father I can possibly be to my partner’s children, and they graciously accept and appreciate this. It does not ease the terrible pain I feel every day over the loss of my daughters, but the wonderful feedback I get from them stops me from giving up hope and tells me I am not the monster my embittered and angry ex-wife would like to make me out to be.

    Kia Kaha bro


    Comment by Gerry — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 12:26 am

  28. Powerful thread.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 12:37 am

  29. Mickey, Et al,

    PAS is very real – My Son now 13 has had to face those trying to Alienate him from me since conception – They still include his Mothers religious mates, his Mothers Family, earlier on the FAMILY Court, 3 of the 4 schools he has attended, WINZ, some of his soccer mates Parents, some of his Cricket mates Parents, so called Child Support and on it goes.

    In fact it drives him crazy even now @ times – WINZ refusing to recognise our FAMILY Court Ordered **Equal Parenting** Orders for 9 years was the last straw for us as the GOVT endorsed PAS expands deep within NZ and most other World-Wide Law and Social Policies.

    While the majority of New Zealand Men and their Families movement sit silent on the matter and the general populace rest in APATHY your Kid, my Javan now 13 and 400,000 other NZKids don’t stand a chance of a normal CHILDhood.

    However there is HOPE

    I was privileged to be coached by Gardener himself and was in communication the week he was murdered for his exposing PAS. I will did out some Google references.

    It’s REAL and it’s making a lot of people a lot of money and giving usually Women (Because they are better at it) the idea that they can control our Kids.

    The truth is World-Wide FAMILY Law and Social Policy is designed to destroy the **Whole Natural Biological FAMILY** and these usually Women are but a tool in the process.

    Stay Strong your Daughter is worth it

    However you may well need to back off to allow her to remain sane and progress threw school etc. as I have done with my Son Javan.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 12:45 am

  30. Yep, I think our ex’s are related. The suicide attempts and the ensuing drama surrounding her with every agency trying their best to cater to her needs while ignoring our childrens’ needs. She had them wrapped around her little finger.
    Father-hating State agencies pandered to her every whim while leaving our children at serious risk from a psycho, all the time frowning at me for making this poor angel unhappy.
    Shame on every employer that has asked her to resign. Every employer she’s had has asked for her resignation without exception.
    Thanks to my parents who arrived unannounced to remove my rifle to a safer location after hearing my ex-wife fixate on news articles where wives murder their husbands and then claim abuse. They may well have saved my life. I’m lucky Mum was a psychiatric nurse. Ha! I should’ve known better.
    More so the State should have known better. Instead State Agencies prefer to empower people based on genitalia despite them being a loony-tune.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:14 am

  31. I really feel for you all I have been through the same thing. I decided it was pointless to fight the ex anymore and received encouragement from others who had seen similar (PAS) situations come right by completely reversing in time. In my case my daughter after about 5 years alienation now sees her mother for what she really is and can’t wait to get out of home at the end of the year when she leaves school. At the same time my relationship with my daughter has re-established itself thankfully without recourse to the family court, we both realise that we have been victims of the alienating parent. Hope you all have similar happy outcomes to my own.

    Comment by Jimmy — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:34 am

  32. SMOKE SCREEN ALERT… Changes bring transparency to Family Court

    COURT 16 May 2009, 8:20AM
    Changes bring transparency to Family Court
    By Georgina Te Heuheu

    New rules affecting the reporting of Family Court proceedings take effect on Monday.

    Courts Minister Georgina te Heuheu says the new rules, contained in the Family Courts Matters Act, will increase the openness of the Family Court.

    ‘The changes will help the public gain a better understanding of how the Family Court operates and allow people to tell their side of the story, while protecting the privacy of those involved,’ she says.

    To help improve the openness of the Family Courts, news media reporters will be able to attend hearings. Reports of Family Court proceedings can be published provided there is no information identifying children or vulnerable people without leave of the judge. This is similar to the existing provisions in the Care of Children Act.

    If the judge agrees, parties can bring a support person to the hearing. Others will be able to attend with the judge’s permission. The judge can ask anyone to leave the courtroom.

    Mrs te Heuheu says other minor process and procedural changes are designed to improve the operation of the Family Court.

    ‘For example, Family Court registrars will be able to do certain things previously only done by judges.

    ‘Judges will be able to direct registrars to appoint lawyers and specialist report writers and registrars will be able to issue a summons under the Domestic Violence Act and direct that additional people should be served with applications under the Family Protection Act.’

    The changes taking effect on Monday are the first stage of the Family Courts Matters legislation. Other parts of the legislation yet to come into force include changes to counselling for couples and parents under the Family Proceedings Act and the Care of Children Act, and the introduction of counselling for children and family mediation. They will take effect when detailed planning for the new services has been completed.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 4:55 am

  33. The Family Court should just be called The Paedophile Court, Family Court Judges are the equivalent to a paedophile (in relation to the exploitation powers of children they hold)
    Judge O’Donovan, Judge Grace, Judge Von Dazlesden and Judge all GUILTY of the rape of New Zealand children. Evidence is there to support the theory, so why not scream it from the roof tops.

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 5:15 am

  34. Good fathers who have had kids stolen from them by the state, one day we will have nothing to lose, and then you will see the abuse that you have given us bear fruit, then there will be REAL justice

    Comment by martin swash — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 6:01 am

  35. Reports of Family Court proceedings can be published provided there is no information identifying children or vulnerable people without leave of the judge.

    Translation: Children and distraught mummies details shall not be
    published without prior approval from the Head Extortionist. Dead-beat Dads shall be named and shamed without prior permission. Surely FATHERS are not vulnerable? That is reserved for women and children!

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 8:53 am

  36. It seems that any contact with the child, whether positive or negative, is perceived in the child’s mind as an attack against the mother. The child feels like you are trying to persuade him/her to come over to “your side”. This in turn may have a consequence that is too extreme to deal with, so the child selects the easier path of rejection in order to stay on the “good” side.

    I need to understand PAS clearly and perhaps I need to call it PA as mentioned. “Syndrome” meaning. 1.Pathology, Psychiatry. a group of symptoms that together are characteristic of a specific disorder, disease, or the like.

    I do not think that it will work to my best interest calling it a syndrome or disease, but most of us would probably agree that it is a mental disorder of the mother, knowing that the condition can be reversed easily by her actions. This would in my opinion be resolved in days. However, fathers or mothers that are affected by “PA” suffer for years.

    This is probably because of two reasons . One. The targeted parent withdraws completely. The “bad side” disappears and the child learns that there is no game being played. It may forget about the game and replace it with more important things. Two. It takes years for the child to develop its own thinking skills, which is formulated by years of “life experience” and learning right from wrong. Eventually the child “wakes” up and realizes what has happened.

    If there are any psychologists or lawyers associated with this site, I would like to know your opinion. Here is the challenge!! I am desperate to get my child back and I am not willing to wait for years.

    Comment by Mikey — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 9:55 am

  37. Until people realise that there is a domestic violence business nothing will change.
    Until all of us unite and do something about it (Like demonstrate in the front of the family court every day and more ) nothing will be done.

    They graze us like sheep. And when comes your turn they come to you. Women as said above is just the the business tool and women
    The family court, women’s refuge (tool supplier), cyfs are the triangle of violence in NZ.
    You now the triangle? Just the res kiwi is upside down.

    They create violence and live of it. The growth of youth violence that we are seeing today is
    hand manufactured by the organizations cited above.

    … Abstain from associating or marrying kiwi women until things change. It is not worth it and really a risky business.

    Comment by tren Christchurch — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 10:12 am

  38. Hi Tren. The problem of PAS or PA is not limited to New Zealand and the internet is riddled with it, especially in Canada, where they have declared April 25th as an awareness day.

    There are famous people such as Alec Baldwin who has written a book about Parental Alienation and speaks out .

    Your frustration is directed at the authorities for not recognizing and dealing with it. This is like blaming the police for a criminal’s action.

    Comment by Mikey — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 11:09 am

  39. Well…. not quite, Mikey. Your warning is a good one, that we shouldn’t blame the response agencies for the problems they are responding to. But we must hold them to account for doing what they are paid to do. We criticize the police when they don’t uphold the law in situations where they could do so, as often happens in cases of domestic violence done by women. We don’t blame them directly for that violence but indirectly of course their approach is likely to legitimize and encourage it. Similarly, the agencies we pay through our taxes to look after the interests of children often put feminist ideology ahead of their brief. They indirectly encourage PAS or PA because perpetrators can feel reasonably confident that it will be ignored or legitimized.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:07 pm

  40. Just keep being a great dad and never put their mother down in front of them. By being the more mature one, eventually your kids will see that. Good luck.

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:13 pm

  41. “Answer is: be careful who you hook up with” I really take offense to that, as I am sure a lot of guys on here do. Think about it… if we knew these women were like that, do you really think we’d be with them????? Give us some credit mate!

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:15 pm

  42. Simple piggy (hope you are flu free!) they make up a number and then you have to prove them wrong, and they have every right to say that you are wrong and can no longer complain. That’s how it is, and how I have found them to be.

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:18 pm

  43. “Protect our women and children” This annoys me too. Always on the news or in newspapers when catastophe’s happen they state how many women and children died. I remember one last year wheere they said so far there have been 100 victims, 17 of them are women and children. How about 83 were men?????

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:24 pm

  44. This all sounds familiar… to the point that this is how it’s been for years.

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:32 pm

  45. These women are not feminists. I don’t know what acceptable word to call them but it’s not feminist. I think that degrades the feminists who fought for true equality. Just a thought.

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 1:47 pm

  46. on behalf of all women I am sorry!!!

    My partner and I are currently going through something similar. And piggy- $66 is a fraction of what we are having to pay so be glad!!!

    Mikey, you will get her back in the end. Im sure of it!

    Comment by jesse — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 2:41 pm

  47. fair dinkum mate..

    Comment by piggy in the middle — Wed 20th May 2009 @ 5:43 pm

  48. I thank you all for your valued advice and also thanks to some of you who have shared their past experiences. We can only learn from each other.

    I have gathered my thoughts on the subject of PAS and would like to start a new post/thread if I may. Loosing a child is devastating and some of you have suffered for years without being able to do anything.

    I want this to be a user help guide. No past life experiences or criticisms unless they are relevant to the point that is being made. Short and sweet to read!

    I believe that PAS is a deliberate game that is being played by an angry ex. He/she wants to hurt you and get rid of you so that a “new family” can be formed. He/she would rather have you dead, but this is the next best thing to get rid of you for good.

    The question is : “How would you get your child back if he/she turns against you through PAS?”

    I will list a few points and please add your points. Put your thinking caps on!!!

    Comment by Mikey — Thu 21st May 2009 @ 9:58 am

  49. Mikey Hi,
    If it was just you and me than no one will criticize the authorities.
    So you find it normal that a man is thrown from his home solely on the word of his partner.
    So you find it normal than a man is thrown by the authorities from a home he worked hard to provide for his children and wife, without seeing him or interviewing him to establish the veracity of her allegations, and forced to attend a violence program, refusal of which will send him straight to
    So you find it normal that a man is barred from seeing his children for more than three months. Meanwile they send the children to courses about safety programs sending a message to the children that he is not a safe pair of hands and telling them the reason for all of this because their father has issues.

    You find it normal that a father loved and cared for his children for 10 years and suddenly he is n
    suddenly he is forbidden on the family property, unable to call them by phone and send a christmas card.
    Am I describing a monster to you? Well that is what the family court is projecting in any protection order they serve.

    See Mikey Many intervene here and all their stories match.
    So you find it normal that there is nowhere to complain.
    You find it normal that a lawyer contracted by the Court to represent the views of the children ending up serving as a second lawyer for her and hardly utters a word to represent the views of the children because the children have nothing wrong to say about their father only that they love him and what to spend more time with him.

    Do you think i blame the police for the Bain families murders?
    But i certainly will blame them if they send to jail the wrong guy to hasten the process and and get the promotion.

    I will blame them if they try to get promotions on the back of dads because
    ‘they are ‘very’ serious about domestic violence’

    I wish you Mikey all the best. And may god help your partner to see. Because without her cooperation
    do not rely on the ‘authorities.

    Comment by tren Christchurch — Thu 21st May 2009 @ 12:13 pm

  50. If it’s all about money then men should protest by removing every cent from every bank account and investment held in any NZ institution OR threaten to. If they only understand money then we should speak to them in money. It’s easier to remove $$ from the bank than get off my lazy arse and stand in the cold. I also reckon we’d get far more attention if we start speaking money instead of English.
    I’ll be ringing Westpac to threaten the removal of my overdraft lol.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Thu 21st May 2009 @ 12:27 pm

  51. I fear that going to court will make things worse. I can see it coming “we hate you for taking mum to court!” This will feed the PAS.

    I want to secure my days with the kids and hopefully get the court to offer help with the PA. My ex keeps interfering with my time.

    Comment by Mikey — Thu 21st May 2009 @ 12:38 pm

  52. SO TRUE BROTHER,so true, best to you all.

    Comment by Mark J — Fri 22nd May 2009 @ 6:07 pm

  53. Yes Mikey, Learn from it but never let it destroy you, just become a better person from it all, and one day your kids will come back to you,one day you will look back on it all and think?? and smile.

    Comment by Mark J — Fri 22nd May 2009 @ 6:23 pm

  54. so what are you complaininbg about??? I am paying $500 a month for 1 child!!!!

    Comment by Mark J — Fri 22nd May 2009 @ 6:45 pm

  55. I hope so. Thanks Mark.

    Comment by Mikey — Sat 23rd May 2009 @ 11:47 am

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