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Request for you to share your suicidal ideation experience

Filed under: General — MurrayBacon @ 10:48 am Sat 25th July 2009

Whose Finger Pulled the Suicide Trigger?

The TVNZ website, source NZPA had the following report:

Bevin said the Father’s Coalition had wanted to raise with the commission a range of issues, particularly the likelihood that family break-ups, and events such as separations and divorces, were key factors in a high incidence of suicide among middle-aged men.
This “man-toll” comprised many of the 300 men among the 500 annual suicides, he said.
But curry said the coalition’s concerns about Family Court proceeds potentially being a trigger for suicide had been confirmed by the court’s principal judge, Peter Boshier.

Mr. Kerry Bevin’s speech didn’t narrow down the culpable parties. I have tried to point the finger in what I believe is the largest single culpable direction – “judges”.

My interest in parental suicide, on forced separation from children, was triggered by listening to a speech given by Dr. Vivian Roberts, a Hastings GP.

My initial reaction was of total disbelief. Something wasn’t lying right, but it took me a few weeks to put my finger on it.

Suddenly I realised that when I was faced with the rather stark risk of not being able to see my own children and the familycaught totally ignoring me as a parent, that for a while I had quite closely considered suicide. I had since turned my back on these thoughts and said to myself not to go back there. I guess that I had worked so hard to repress, that it took some time before I was able to face my own history.

Since then, in reading about the impacts of childhood trauma, I realised that the seeds for suicidal ideation are sown in a large minority of all of our children – it wasn’t just me. These seeds lie silently, waiting.

Then it came back to me – exactly what was the trigger in my own experience.

Example of delivering suicide triggers – judge dale green

On 13th February 2008 I made a submission to the Justice Department, on the Domestic Violence Act. This submission was quite out of step with what the Justice Department requested. Instead of making suggestions for making the Domestic Violence Act more onerous onto men, I analysed the effectiveness of the DV Act and showed using Government statistics that it saved approximately 0.5 woman or child’s life per year from DV, at a cost of about 100 men’s and children’s suicides.

My submission then speculated on the exact suicide triggers that were achieving this level of killing performance.

The submission also showed that this outcome was foreseeable, from the research available at the time the Domestic Violence Act went through Parliament.

The Justice Department have never even acknowledged receipt of my submission.

My submission was weak, in that my speculations were only based on my own experiences of suicidal ideation triggered by the judge’s deliberate disrespect and dishonesty. Quite possibly, this might not be other people’s experience?

If Paul Curry’s comment is correct, Judge Boshier has now acknowledged that the familycaught “judges” play a significant role in triggering parental suicide.

Somehow, I would be surprised if Judge Boshier has ever made any such admission.

Although he does do some very good work, among lots of others, I have never seen him accept responsibility for damage or destruction done by any “judge”. He may work hard to tidy up messes left by other “judges”, but publicly there has never been any admission of culpability on the part of these “judges”.

Public discussion about suicide triggers is a fraught and hazardous subject. Custodial parents risk losing custody, if they speak on these topics, about their own experiences.

Non-custodial parents take higher still risks, if they ever publicly discuss their own experiences.

This willingness to use suicidal ideation as an issue for removing children from their parents, acts as a powerful force to inhibit parents from accessing medical help, if the adversarial side might be able to find out about it.

Having given these warnings then, I make hard request.

Please consider to share your own experiences, so that I can resubmit my Domestic Violence Submission, strengthened with many other examples of familycaught “judges” driving in suicide triggers.

For people with children still within the familycaught extortionable age range, we can submit without giving the names. Although this weakens the political strength of the submission, it is still better than without your assistance at all.

Besides, if you help, one day the life that you save, might have some of your own blood flowing in their veins…
Murray -two-axe Bacon.


  1. Before I or I encourage ANYBODY to comment on this type of issue, I should remind them it is an open site, and can be seen by anybody, including your X and presented in evidence!

    If you have something sensitive, and suicidal thoughts are sensitive, especially as they affect children, it should be done in one of the 3 closed groups.

    Comment by alastair — Sat 25th July 2009 @ 4:36 pm

  2. Absolutely, I assumed that this is bleeding obvious…

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 25th July 2009 @ 5:05 pm

  3. Actually to a caring loving father and a loving child the entire process is barbaric and triggers a high risk of suicide.

    The sudden remove of a father from a child’s life is a truamatic expereince for the child and for the father. At least the father and usually also the child are aware thet their whole future relationship is at great risk.

    The process then usually deteriates from that point thus increasing the risk of suicide as time goes on.

    Even once the court has made a ruling this in fact often creates a distressing and depressing event and ongoing situation for the father. Most eventually give up and have little contact with their children in the long term. This prospect places further risks of suicide on the father and later in life on the child as well.

    Comment by Dave — Mon 27th July 2009 @ 2:22 pm

  4. Please note that there are few good reason for the process to be implemented in this way. A child focused process would operate with a completely different mind set.

    Comment by Dave — Mon 27th July 2009 @ 2:24 pm

  5. Instead of making suggestions for making the Domestic Violence Act more onerous onto men, I analysed the effectiveness of the DV Act and showed using Government statistics that it saved approximately 0.5 woman or child’s life per year from DV, at a cost of about 100 men’s and children’s suicides.

    The Justice Department have never even acknowledged receipt of my submission.

    This somehow reminds me of the response doctors got from military men 90 years ago, when they tried to point out that men subjected to extreme stress could no longer be expected to function normally. The military men preferred to just shoot them – they sure as hell weren’t going to listen to some common -sensensical argument that got in the way of their war.

    But at least their fool’s war could be won. The modern war to make society a feminine utopia can’t be. As soon as they get close, female demands will change. That’s the nature of the beast – women forever unsatisfied, and men forever trying to please them. Meanwhile, those waging their war won’t be losing any sleep over any of the men ruined or lost as collateral damage. Sometimes I think the symbol of our history – a man hung out to dry, nailed to a cross and sacrificed for others, says it all in one image.

    Good for you and all the others Murray who didn’t go down into that dark place – that monster is too well fed.

    Comment by rc — Thu 30th July 2009 @ 10:38 am

  6. Another way to ensure a submission is listened to, If no response, Release it to the media and everybody else you can think of. This is where your media relationship is invaluable.

    Comment by alastair — Thu 30th July 2009 @ 11:19 am

  7. RC and Alistair,
    thank you for your constructive suggestions. I already am following your suggestions, in that I am planning to put a bound paper copy in the National Library. (I have previously offered to send copies to anyone who asks.)
    Notwithstanding, the weakest part of my submission is that the link between “judges” acting outside of integrity to trigger mothers and fathers to extinguish their own lives, is presently based only on my personal example.
    Over the last 7 years, I have heard quite a few people discuss this issue. Many didn’t really have a clear understanding of what they had been through, or how near the edge they had been for a short time. Most just wanted to put distance between themself and these issues……
    I have highlighted the risks and fears involved in going back and facing these demons, but if we don’t face them, the small river of blood continues to flow.
    Even if we think we are personally safe, then surely soon enough our children may face these sharp edges in the next few years?
    Thus, I ask if you would consider to make your own experiences available to me, as part of a large group effort.

    Please discuss these issues with your friends, who might consider to submit their story.

    We could only put pressure onto the Government to make our caughtrooms safer, if we can show that the number of lives snuffed out is big enough, that we should take constructive action.

    The cost to improve these issues is quite small, really just reminding our “judges” of the oath that they have already signed and making sure that they do understand what is required to honour their own word, in their day to day work.
    The number of people is quite large, about 20 x Mount Erebush crashes spread sporadically and thinly over 25 years.

    So, is this issue worth acting on?
    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Thu 30th July 2009 @ 3:27 pm

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