MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

A BBC series is exploring the reasons why fathers lose touch with their children

Filed under: General,Law & Courts — Julie @ 10:00 pm Sun 28th March 2010

The series starts Wednesday 31st of March and thanks to the online men’s network, I will be able to post links for your viewing pleasure. But for now, a preview will suffice…………..

Sara Feilden, the producer for Films of Record, who made the BBC series says she is glad to have found the brief window of opportunity in which to tell father’s stories since the UK allowed journalists to report on the family courts. Unfortunately, there is a Bill going through Parliament that would make it impossible, once again, to film people who have been involved in family legal disputes. “It’s unlikely that we would ever again be able to make a programme about this important issue,” she says.

Journalist Cassandra Jardine of the UK Telegraph says watching the review of the BBC series made her feel ashamed to be a woman and that…. the men on the programme appeared to be loving, attentive fathers who only wanted to play their part in the upbringing of their children while it seemed, vengeful, short-sighted women were selfishly trying to thwart them.

Sadly, she has the impression fathers who protest in hero costumes are extremists instead of being father’s in the same situations she describes, who haven’t anyway of allowing society to know what is going on for fathers because as Sara says, it’s a small window of opportunity the BBC has, and yet how much more equipped is the media to individual fathers? In my opinion, she needs to watch women in NZ protesting police over a policeman found guilty of rape. In expectation women wanted to assault every policeman in reach, a frontline and backline was formed where female police officers were the frontline strengthened from the weight of women wanting to attack men by locking their arms together.

UK’s nasty women don’t seem to be any different to NZ’s nasty women.

These mothers cancelled contact arrangements, scuppered telephone calls, made false allegations of abuse, and prevented the men taking their children on holiday.

Cassandra also writes about individual cases from her review of the series that will air on the BBC, which sound exactly the same stories or similar to what men in NZ are reporting.

“Honestly, I feel like throwing in the towel,” said one tearful father, who sat in his car outside his ex’s front door, waiting in vain for the children to come out. Only an emergency court order won him the day.

She adds that the women not only want total control of the children — believing their love was enough — they also expected their exes to keep them in the style to which they had become accustomed through alimony payments and child support, while the men lived in cramped bedsits.

When one man finally manages to remortgage his own home to keep a working mother in hers, her response is: “OK, so I can book a holiday.”

What’s wrong is that men get hounded as deadbeat dads from politicians to church ministers and yet this is far from the truth.

“Henry” (not his real name), who is seen in the second programme, tells me he blames a court system that is biased against fathers, as well as being expensive, slow and ineffectual. When his daughter was born, Henry wanted to be involved, even though he had subsequently married. In return for maintenance, he saw his daughter alternate weekends and took her on holiday. “She was a massive part of my life,” he says. “Then her mother decided to live abroad.”

He fought the move but, as in 99 per cent of cases, the mother won in court. “All a woman has to say is that refusal will psychologically damage her. There’s a view that whatever is in the mother’s interests is also in the child’s interests, even though nine out of 10 non-resident parents then lose touch.”

Henry did not wish to be one of them, but despite a “mirror order” giving him visiting rights and regular contact, he has had to fight for every glimpse and chat, at a cost of £70,000, putting considerable strain on his marriage. “When we meet it’s wonderful, but it’s hard to slot into a role if you haven’t seen a child regularly.”

During the whole court process he felt “like the puppet in the hands of a puppeteer”. He says: “I can understand why mothers use whatever power is at their disposal, but there was an imbalance.” Many fathers feel the same. “In order to be considered equal, you have to be twice as good,” says Simon Ramet, who has fought for half his child’s time.

This seems like a must see series with the BBC delving deeper and including the effects on children and society at large; which is explained well in the article Cassandra wrote. I’ve only touched on her words and recommend you read the rest yourself.


  1. Cetainly does Julie. Keep us in the picture

    Comment by Alastair — Sun 28th March 2010 @ 10:08 pm

  2. Reply to all

    Below is what I posted on the ‘UK Telegraph’ forum relating to the plight of decent Fathers in England


    You think England bad for Fathers.???..Come to New Zealand then,where Extreme social engineering for the last 25 years as very successfully ‘Demonized’ Manhood and Fatherhood…Our Family courts are like this

    Woman/Mother …Always The
    innocent victim

    Man/Father……Always the Abuser…

    Solution…Don’t marry or form a relationship with a Western European Woman…..As a Man,Far to dangerous to now…..Look elsewhere…

    kind regards to you all..John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 29th March 2010 @ 12:49 pm

  3. Well at last someone in the media is looking to give an objective look at these issues. It has always appalled me that with an entire generation of fatherless children, these issues have been ignored.
    Nothing that is occuring justifies the whole sale destruction of millions of children’s bonds with their fathers. People like Mary that try to justify it are similar to those that justify the holocost.

    Comment by Dave — Mon 29th March 2010 @ 4:09 pm

  4. I’ve decided to delete comments that are off topic because this is an important thread. I know most of you will be understanding.

    Comment by julie — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 12:54 am

  5. Thanks Julie

    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 9:51 am

  6. ditto

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 11:15 am

  7. Yes, looking at Britains numbers……..

    150,000 to 200,000 relationships breaking down per year……

    40% of fathers loosing contact with their children…..

    That’s between 60,000 and 80,000 new fathers who have been removed from their children’s lives in Britain alone….per year.

    That’s 60,000 to 80,000 new men who have had to tolerate a form of state sponsored psychological and financial abuse….per year.

    That’s 60,000 to 80,000 men who who have had their lives ruined….per year.

    Think of it 60,000 to 80,000 EXTRA men added to the numbers of men who have already had their lives ruined by this system.

    Given the family size in Britain is 1.95 children per family, that also represents 117,000 to 156,000 EXTRA children who have had their father removed from their life….per year

    117,000 to 156,000 new children who will grow up disadvantaged….per year.
    117,000 to 156,000 new children who will grow up with a variety of problems related to being in a state sponsored fatherless environment….per year.

    117,000 to 156,000 EXTRA children added to the pool of fatherless children per year.

    Ok now let’s add it all up. 60,000 to 80,000 fathers plus 117,000 to 156,000 children equates to 177,000 to 236,000 lives that are ruined each year by the current system in Britain alone.

    177,000 to 236,000 lives ruined each year? All so the 60,000 to 80,000 women can get their way. It is abhorrent that such impingement’s of human rights would be tolerated.

    Over a 5 year time period alone that’s 885,000 to 1,180,000 lives ruined. Given Britain’s population of 62 million people that represents between 1.4% and 1.9% of their TOTAL population that will have their lives wrecked by this system in a 5 year time period. Quite simply….that’s disgusting.

    And the situation here in New Zealand is no different from what is faced by men and children in Britain. It would be interesting to see the statistics of how many family court ruined lives there are here.

    What kind of respect can we give any government that ruins lives in this way on such a large scale? The simple fact is that every MAN has the RIGHT to see his own offspring. Every CHILD has the RIGHT to see their own father. These rights are actually protected by the United Nations. There is no question that these rights should be recognised and upheld in law and any deviation from these rights should necessitate a full court case with the father attributed the right of “innocent until PROVEN guilty”.

    I might also add that every man has the right to know if his children are actually his. Statistics show that between 10% to 30% of children have their father named incorrectly on their birth certificate.

    The best authorities in the world project that minimum of 10% of the population are victims of paternity fraud. A number of important studies estimate that 16% of the population are fraudulently misidentified on their birth records and are deprived of a relationship with their biological father in violation of the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child articles 7, 8 and 9 which provide for the human right to be raised by your biological parents. That means BOTH biological parents.”

    So not only are Western countries around the world systematically removing fathers from their children’s lives through relationship break-up. But by not allowing readily available DNA testing, they are also removing fathers from their children’s lives through paternity fraud.

    DNA testing is cheap and easy to get done. Here in New Zealand there are several places you can go for a non-court approved DNA test. Usually it cost’s less than $400, and is something I would recommend to any man before admitting paternity. Your partner does NOT have to know you are doing this.

    And here are a few places you can get that test done.

    So getting back to the numbers. We can increase these numbers because of paternity fraud by a minimum of 10%. This brings us the following conclusion.

    Britain has a population of 62 million people, and 17 million families. Each family has an average of 1.95 children. So that is 33.15 million children approximately.
    Out of that 10% minimum have their father named incorrectly on their birth certificate.

    So that is at least 3.315 million children across Britain, separated from their father by paternity fraud to start with.

    The number of births in Britain hit an all time high of 708,000 in 2008 (seems women in the current climate are quite happy to continue having children).

    So based on statistics we can add an additional 70,800 children separated from their father each year by paternity fraud.

    Added to that pool is 108,000 to 144,000 children each year, separated from their father by relationship break-up.

    So the total is 178,800 to 214,800 children separated from their father each year through one means or another in direct violation of the United Nations Convention for the Protection of Children which states in article 9:

    States Parties shall ensure that a child shall NOT be separated from his or her parents against their will, except when COMPETANT authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures, that such separation is NECCESSARY for the best interests of the child. Such determination may be necessary in a particular case such as one involving abuse or neglect of the child by the parents, or one where the parents are living separately and a decision must be made as to the child’s place of residence.

    So according to that a father should by law should not be separated from his children by paternity fraud. So why isn’t a DNA test a standard test done when a child is born? With the thousands of dollars spent on maternity care, a simple test of paternity does not seem unreasonable and would prove to every father that his children are in fact biologically related to him.

    Now it does state in article 9 that parents may be separated from their children if a decision has to be made during relationship break-up, however later in article 9 it states:

    States Parties shall respect the right of the child who is separated from one or both parents to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis, except if it is contrary to the child’s best interests.

    In other words it is against international law to remove a father from his children’s lives for any other reason but PROVEN abuse, verified by judicial process (innocent until proven guilty) in a competent court. And every father has the RIGHT to see his children.

    Therefore the present system of removing fathers on mass from their children’s lives through paternity fraud and the manipulation of the courts is quite simply illegal.

    Comment by Phoenix — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 1:15 pm

  8. What kind of respect can we give any government that ruins lives in this way on such a large scale?

    Frankly I can’t respect such a system. It is barbaric.

    Comment by Dave — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 3:13 pm

  9. Keep up the good work Julie.

    Comment by Scott B — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 3:48 pm

  10. Reply to Julie

    ….Julie and I am deadly serious on my statement…This is the truly scary part…Do you know how many Kiwi Woman I have met and tried to have a civilized debate concerning Feminism here in New Zealand,but they think and have the same beliefs as Mary….And Julie, I am deeply sadden to say this,but I truly have give up on Kiwi Woman…..I have had enough,like so many man other good decent Kiwi guys I know as well…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 3:53 pm

  11. Reply to Mary:-
    I find your posts and assumptions offensive. The back door of the house I moved to after we seperated was smashed in by my X wife. After she got through a cordless phome was smashed over my head and when I fell a good kicking. She didn’t even have the decency to clean up the blood 🙂 I couldn’t get a protection order! I couldn’t even get any support. Sorry Mary Female violence DOES exist. And men do not know how to cope! Where was my refuge? Where was my “Mens Centre” Where were all the other sexist supports females have. I was laughed at. The police didn’t even take a complaint.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 4:02 pm

  12. Reply to Alastair

    …This as in what you have describe Alastair,happens a lot more then Kiwi Woman will ever care to admit too…And what is the bet your Ex Kiwi Wife proclaim after she attack you….Could it be the following statement that Kiwi Woman seem to love to say…’I am still the real Victim’….I have heard this statement so often from Kiwi Woman….I just completely ‘turn off’ and ‘walk away’….

    Kind regards to you Alastair…John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 4:09 pm

  13. Thank you John, I wish to clarify one small misunderstanding in acknowledgement of real Kiwi ladies. She was not NZ born, and as I discovered to my cost her culture though seemingly graceful & gentle are infact very violent. I don’t want to get into a hate session though against one particular culture.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 4:15 pm

  14. Reply to Alister

    No problem Alastair,and I can understand where you are coming from…
    But I can remember N.Z as once a young Man,this used to be awesome Country to raise a Family,where Men and Woman used to have honor and respect for each other…Sure,n.z wasn’t perfect…But no Country or Society is
    I could laugh and joke with a Kiwi Woman then, and I used to love and honor them for there strong and gritty ‘Femininity’,and I would have defended a Kiwi Woman to the death if need be,but sorry to say this those days have truly gone and my heart and soul is deeply sadden by this so called new society here in N.Z …by this extreme radical Feminism in N.Z …The rest is history now…

    Kind regards to you Alastair..John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 4:31 pm

  15. On the grand scale what really happens to most children is that the father quite correctly works out he has next to no chance and he may as well give up now rather than later. This is known as the shadow of the law.
    Fathers know they will only get shafted by the system so why even enter it? It took me years to accept this is a valid response but I truly understand this is the stark reality for the majority of fathers.
    At the same time a boycott of the family court is actually what the family court fears most of all. If no one turns to them they are seen to be irrelevant and a failure.
    Of course it is easy to know this and another thing entirely to more or less give up on your own kids.

    What we need is a shadow system. Much like a shadow government in opposition. A complete shadow system used by fathers and anyone willing would be a major threat to the existing system. I just don’t know how you do that without a great deal of money.

    Comment by Dave — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 6:09 pm

  16. Or getting women to use it!

    Comment by Scott B — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 6:17 pm

  17. Self representing works very well. Saves Megabucks also.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 6:40 pm

  18. Yeah Al,do you know the song a Road to Nowhere? If you own a penis you are stuffed in my court!

    Comment by Judge Dread — Tue 30th March 2010 @ 6:44 pm

  19. My children wont talk to me or see me. I have three 17,15 and 11yrs. I never cheated and was forced to give up a career by my wife because of relocation. I gave it up and she planned a seperation for 6 months, cleared my account hugged me the day before she announced that she wanted a divorce. I was married 17 years and did the best I could, all went down hill when unemployed/employed in low paid jobs. I have seen my children on their birthdays taken them out bought clothes then ignored after. I spoke to me son 11yrs on phone who said he never wanted to see me again. I am devasted, I was supposed to have equal rights but told if the children don’t want to see me then there is nothing I can do. The uk law does not recognise parent alienation which other countries protrect the father on. I don’t know if i will ever see them again. I think of them everyday.

    Comment by John — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 8:26 am

  20. Hello John,
    I can relate to what you’re saying mate.
    My ex was having her two women friends come over to our house once a week on an evening to watch a video and drink a sherry or two. this was six months before I got the big elbow from her. What was really happening was a small support group for how to engineer things so she would come out the ‘winner’ in a separation. All three were two faced about things acting as sweet as cherry pie to me as though nothing was going on. When the divorce came I had no-one to turn to whilst she’d already strategised every move from false accusation through to which lawyers were best to use, what property she wanted to take with her etc, etc.
    End result I lost every thing – wife, son, house car, furniture, etc and was on the receiving end of much physical, and emotional abuse from her. When she brought down the guillotine with the announcement that she was divorcing me
    I was poleaxed, numb for weeks after that – before spending about an hour in a shower one day fetal position on the floor sobbing my heart out.
    Looking back all these years later I see I was a complete fool for ever getting together with her in the first place.
    Needless to say I’m still wary about women these days.

    Comment by Skeptik — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 10:38 am

  21. Dear John

    I know exactly what you are going through and experiencing. It happened to me exactly the same way you describe. The question we have to ask ourselves is that is this simply coincidence? Of course it is not.

    Your experience, is my experience. It is an experience replicated hundreds of times over in this country ever year. As you read this, your experience is also being experienced by some poor other father somewhere in this country. Tragically, will happen to men this very Easter Weekend.

    For a possible explanation John I recommend you read the works of Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD. Her blog site is Yes, Dr Palmatier is a woman, but one to talks a lot of sense and is understanding of men’s situation. This is a blog by an American psychologist who is not afraid to challenge stereotypes and examine women’s behaviour as hard as men’s behaviour is examined by the “system”.

    All situations are different of course and we can’t generalise but two good articles by Dr Palmatier to start you thinking are:


    Good luck bro and perhaps “Mary Poppins” may even care to read these articles too and see if they strike any chords with her.

    Comment by Gerry — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 2:45 pm

  22. Hello John
    Almost the same thing happened to me, my children were 17, 15, 12 and 10.
    You carried out your marriage vows, and loved and supported your family, for better or worse, to the best of your abilities.
    Your wife did not, and valued you only for your economic input. Her response was the female equivalent of a man dumping a wife because she is looking older, and not so good at sex- (both despicable)
    Your relationship with your children remains yours.

    I wrote a ‘love letter’ to each of my children, explaining that I loved them, will always be their dad, that any issues between me and their mother were nothing to do with them etc etc.
    his created mayhem, since my ex had a protection order against me, too bad.

    Make sure you make email contact, facebook contact, as well.

    Respect yourself, what you have done.
    Respect for the authorities is optional

    Best wishes


    Comment by John Brett — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 5:46 pm

  23. I am finding the coments by Mary to be abusive and offensive to me, and probably to other site users.
    I do not wish to be abused in this way
    I request the site owner John to block comments from Mary

    Comment by John Brett — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 5:49 pm

  24. Hi John;

    I suggest you email the webmaster as well. He doesn’t have time to read through all the posts on here. I have…..

    Comment by noconfidence — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 8:19 pm

  25. Hi Alastair;

    I too was a victim of female assault. So was my daughter. I called the cops that night, but I didn’t lay charges. I am still mulling over laying charges and think that I will, I’m just not sure when I will do it. I suggest you go back to the police station (or another one) and make a complaint.
    Don’t let the feminists in the police win. They must act if there is a complaint laid.
    Peace to you.

    Comment by noconfidence — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 8:23 pm

  26. Important viewing

    The BBC series exploring the reasons why fathers lose touch with their children had been split into 6 parts and put on Youtube in six parts.
    Please forward the link to other MRAs.

    Comment by Skeptik — Mon 5th April 2010 @ 1:16 am

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

Skip to toolbar