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Action Regarding Parental Alienation

Filed under: General — Ministry of Men's Affairs @ 9:23 pm Fri 8th January 2010

Those who have experience or knowledge of Parental Alienation (PA) can do something that might cause this condition to be taken more seriously. The American Psychiatric Association is working on the next edition of the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. This is the leading psychiatric diagnostic classification system used in many countries including NZ. Glen Sacks’ organisation Fathers & Families is making it easy to send letters to key DSM personnel providing additional evidence that PA needs to be recognized as a mental disorder similar to other “relational disorders” that have already been included in the DSM. If PA is included in the DSM that will put a stop to those who deny PA as a phenomenon and it will make it almost impossible for any Family Court to turn a blind eye to PA if diagnosed. I encourage people to go to the Fathers & Families page, scroll down to find and complete the online form and let them do the rest. The DSM is based on international research and evidence so correspondence from NZ will be as influential as any.

28 Responses to “Action Regarding Parental Alienation”

  1. Gerry says:

    Thank you for this Hans. I will certainly fill out the form based on my first-hand experiences of PA. I note the Family Courts will accept the term “alienation” but are still reluctant to associate the word parental to it.

  2. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Hans, are you suggesting that the syndrome should be recorded on the medical file of the adult doing it, or the adult that is being denied the relationship, or the child on the receiving end?

    Also, this concept is somewhat in its infancy, as it may just be viewed as a cluster of one or several personality disorders, that are already listed in DSM (or ICD World Health Organisation classification)?

    I favour that approach, as I believe that it leads more naturally (ie with least need for any legal involvement) to the best methods of handling this profitable scourge.

    The DSM classification process focusses on a black and white problem/no problem approach. (Unfortunately, so too does the judges’ approach to handling parent/child alienation.) In the real world that children develop, problems vary on a continuous scale and also ebb and flow with the phases of the moons. Treatment should also be provided only to the extent that it is needed to protect the children and protect the perpetrator from creating further legal problems around themself.

    Commonsense says that this is a simple problem and only becomes difficult to manage when the diagnosers and treatment providers work under denial of conflicts of interest, in their relentless drive for personal wealth, where sufficient or even ample is never enough. (Where is the biggest personality disorder problem?)

    Developing a constructive and safe treatment process will require an honest analysis of the financial conflicts of interest, of all of the parties who want to feed at this public trough…….. When this is done, then designing appropriate treatment will not be difficult and the treatment will be surprisingly low cost.

    Cheers,
    MurrayBacon.

  3. dad4justice says:

    Parental alienation tactics for effect are normally used by vexatious female custodial mothers who are guided by gender bias Family Court Orders. Many ex parte protection orders are build on false allegations of child sexual abuse and domestic violence. The children do not have a say in matters and the falsely accused dad is overwhelmed by the many barriers put in place by twisted lying Family Court judges, lawyers, psychologists and counselors. Sometimes the heartbreak is too much, hence the dramatic increase in the numbers of forced male clients of the Family Court who take the suicide is painless option. Years later the horrific damage by all the unlawful gender discrimination is obvio everybody. A man is devastated that lies can stop him loving his children for so long. The pain of loss is hurtful.This dad did not help create children so a Court system could use them in a sordid world of purpose driven parental alienation.Money is the root of all evil. In my case the dirty low scum in the Family Court stretched the lie out for eight years. 52 lawyers, 20 judges, dozen or so twisted psychologists. All liars sucking on the gravy train Family Court. They know they stuffed up bigtime, but they can never feel the sadness of losing someone we love.
    The pain I feel is legitimate. Fuck the Family Court!

  4. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Dads4, you are too kind in your approach to judging the judges.

    Where people happily take profit from families and fail to look at the quality of their “services”, then they slide down the billing scale below rogues and thieves, to be just manslaughterers, as you noted.

    People claim their is no honour between thieves, but really how much is their among legal-workers, jumped up a bench or down a bench?
    Substance or just marketing show?

    When a legal-workers’-aid lawyer litigates a worthless case, the “judge” and any other legal-workers involved are also beneficiaries of the plundering “litigation”.

    Dame Margaret poked borax, but she didn’t follow the trail of unethical invoices and salaries right back to the root source of the evil – the failure by “judges” to enforce standards of practice.

    The LSA tried to enforce standards, perhaps somewhat weekly, but they were undermined by the LARP (Legal Aid review Panel) and by the “judges” who profit from the low standards that they set.

    You don’t have to be the crook, to share in the benefits.

    Whiles these “judges” make arrogant comments about government social welfare beneficiaries, I can only have an image in my mind, of them taking far more out of our society than the ostensible beneficiaries. It would be too kind to call them government beneficiaries.

    Lets call a spade a spade and a thief a thief.

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

  5. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to dad4justice

    ..I had a Ex Brother in law falsely accused of sexual abusing his two Daughters,by an his bitter and twisted New Zealand Feminist Wife …Oh and this Lady had great pleasure in telling me, she was a Feminist and she considered it was here ‘Right’ to lay charges even it was exactly the truth….Come Allen sinse you find F
    Cut the long story short, The Judge threw the charges out,but the whole process destroyed him as an Man and as a Father and he left New Zealand forever ….The experience shock so much he lost contact his Daughters….
    He married an wonderful Australia Lady

  6. John Dutchie says:

    ….Damn my big fingers …Hit the wrong key again…!!!!
    I will finish now …Come on Allan, since you find New Zealand style of Feminism so liberating ….Please explain because I am totally lost on how as in she is a New Zealand Feminist, it is her ‘Right’ to lay false allegations of Sexual misconduct…????….And was this Lady charged,and held accountable,for making a false allegation of Sexual Misconduct against the Father…Answer ….No….!!!!….I wonder why…????
    And how many times have the media reported false allegation of False Rape complaints or false inappropriate sexual misconduct complaints on Children,against Men/ Fathers…..
    Lets put this way shall we, if any Man or Father would dare lay a false sexual complaint against his Lady/Wife and it was proven in court he committed perjury…..Would he be charged for it and to be held accountable for his actions…???….Damn straight He would be…
    My ex brother in law as been living in Australia for some time and is living a normal Life,like I said in my previous post he is now married to a wonderful Australia Lady and she is a highly smart and a very intelligent Lady who works as an Legal Secretary in Law firm specializing in Family Law in Australia. ….And to quote her exact words to me, when I saw her two years ago for brunch ….’John,New Zealand is a very dangerous Country for a Man or a Father to even think of living in…Get out…!!!!’
    Oh and she has also read the book ‘A City Possessed’ concerning Peter Ellis…and to quote her words again …’That John, was a gross miscarriage of justice and it was a pure New Zealand Feminist Witch hunt’….Her words Gentleman,not mine…..

    Kind Regards John Dutchie

  7. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear John, ’tis purely bloodsport and entertainment, with underlying asset stripping.

    If NZ men really were much concerned, they would endeavour to work together, to protect their more vulnerable younger mates, from being mangled through this machine. Most of them are happily worried and won’t worry about coming home to an empty house.

    Its no use complaining that the profit-media investigate our troubles so little, as they serve foreign owners. The owners quite properly pitch to the purchasing public what they are happy to pay for. The public just want escape from their money and entertainment, not boring warnings – like look before you leap.

    This is our own responsibility, as we sold our newspapers to these distant well castled owners, who offered more than what we thought they were worth.

    All rise for the queen’s judge! The apostrophe in queen’s means she pays them (with our assets) and they serve her, rather than us. (Even if it was our money.) Recent TV history entertainment like Henry 8th showed the advantages of paying your own judges. Things have changed for the better, where individuals have fought for it, just not by a lot.

    When you hear “all rise…”, remember the severed heads and the kind words they said before the final separation, because they knew their live family could just as easily follow…

    If NZ men really were much concerned, they would endeavour to work together, to protect their more vulnerable younger mates and their own children, from being mangled through this mindless machine.

    When men fight separated, they doom themselves to obscurity and entertainment. Money isn’t the lack, it is will to work together and wisdom to listen before acting.

    There are procedures set out in legislation for the prosecution of false complainants. These laws will never be enforced by those “hollow men” that profit from abuse of caught, so it is left for you and I to consider the prosecution. Very few try. Such actions are usually easily derailed in caught, even where properly brought.

    Most men don’t want their ex-wife prosecuted, do it to someone else’s wife, so the troubles run on. To expect the victim to prosecute the perpetrator, is expecting them to act against their own personal conflicted interest. The “judges” and other legal-workers well know this.

    Enjoy the suffering, one day it will be close to your own home, very close.

    Don’t forget that these women are running up legal-worker’s aid debts, that they are just as abused, it’s just that they haven’t the wit to work out what they are doing to themselves. They are paying a large price too, in their future relationships, who wants a perpetrator with a history like that, especially as the legs get older?

    Anyway, Lynley Hood wrote A City Possessed and Felicity Goodyear-Smith wrote First Do No Harm, about the NZ Sexual Abuse Industry. I believe it is too narrow to view it as a sex war. These women have done much more to protect NZ men, than the men who write on MENZ!

    In my opinion it is best seen as trolls taking other people’s money, without bothering to work for it or account for it properly. As their greed steadily increases, they become more and more gross, until citizens will be forced to act from shear necessity.

    I guess ethics are relative to work ethic and integrity. All of these fade, when out of strong sunlight.

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

  8. John Dutchie says:

    ….Reply to Murray

    …..Bang…!!Right on the money as in N.Z Men sticking together as in to protect the upcoming younger Male generation…And unfortunately very sadly lacking ……

    All what I can say Murray …

    I have done all what I can to protect and enlighten my young adult Son and his close Male friends to the perils of the Extreme Femisism social engineering that has been occurring in New Zealand for the last 25 years….

    I Have made my Son and all of his close Male Friends read the book ‘A City possessed’…Had even some there Mothers communicating with me in thanking me for making there Sons to read ‘A City Possessed’ it.

    Bar one Mother who gave me hell over the phone, as she found that book ‘A City Possessed’…Degrading to New Zealand Womanhood and Motherhood…I ask her,after she had finished screaming at me that I was an ‘Evil Male Sexist Chauvinistic Pig’,if she was a Feminist…She wouldn’t answer that question…Hmmmmmm….I wonder why…L.O.L

    And Yes, Murray I do concur with you…. ‘Kudos’ must be clearly given to ‘Lynley Hood’ and to ‘Felicity Goodyear-Smith’….very brave Ladies for bucking the system…

    But have a ponder on this one Gentleman, what would have the reaction been, if N.Z Men had written those two books.????..I can see it already …They would have been crucified in the Media by the N.Z Feminists

    All my of Sons friends keep a close watch on each other when they go clubbing, I have enforced a strict rule with my Son, and my Son in turn has enforced this rule with the rest of his Friends ….

    And this is the rule ….’Under No circumstances do you have a one night stand,or have any physical contact with a Lady who is under the influence alcohol, or any other recreational drug’….and the reason why..????…’Date rape’…..

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  9. Hans Laven says:

    Hi Murray,

    Interesting thoughts. I certainly reject what I think you’re implying, that a “relentless drive for personal wealth” by “diagnosers and treatment providers” is likely to result in unnecessarily prolonged treatment of sufferers of a disorder who are thereby exploited. This just doesn’t fit with my experience of psychological and psychiatric services in NZ. Certainly, inaccurate or unwise treatment approaches occur in mental health services whose disciplines are still in relative infancy and that perhaps give too much priority to medical models. Your concerns may be more valid in the FC context where repeated re-assessments and updates may occur in the absence of intervention likely to make much difference. Even then, a lack of effective intervention or change will often be due to action or inaction on the part of the warring parents fuelled by a legal system that has not been able to counter its inherently adversarial model. The FC psychologists etc are not usually given a treatment role, and there are serious ethical and outcome problems with forcing people to submit to treatment they don’t consent to. However, PA is one problem that the FC is likely to be capable of addressing usefully, simply through ordering contact between the child and the alienated parent.

    The questions and concerns you raise about the nature and desirability of a DSM “mental disorder” label for Parental Alienation (PA) are astute. Having PA recognised formally as a disorder may not be entirely positive for those whose minds have been damaged by PA. For example, such a classification to some extent forces PA into a medical model, and the prospect of “treatment” with drugs or electroconvulsion is worrying. But I think the benefits would outweigh the problems. The broader social and legal impact may be to reduce the incidence and bring about earlier recognition and interruption of the alienating process.

    The person diagnosed with PA would be the child. Both parents may have causal or consequential problems but they would not be PA; more likely, the alienating parent might suffer from a personality or anxiety disorder and the alienated parent might suffer from depression and/or substance abuse problems. I wouldn’t see PA as a personality disorder at all; more like a variation of an adjustment or anxiety disorder (such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, where irrational fears interfere with realistic appraisal of and coping with aspects of the world).

    As far as I am aware little research has been done on treatment of PA. The assumed approach has been ensuring or increasing contact between the child and the alienated parent, protecting the child from the alienating parent’s behaviour, along with providing counselling for the child, parents and/or the various dyads. Even when PA itself is repaired, i.e. the relationship between the child and alienated parent has improved, there may be enduring secondary problems in the child such as eating disorders, self-injury or self-esteem problems that will deserve separate attention. I have never met a mental health professional who would not try to treat all such problems as quickly and effectively as his/her skills allow (and there’s the rub).

  10. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear Hans, I apologise for giving some offense. If you think my comment through, you will notice that “diagnosers and treatment providers” includes psychologists and unfortunately also a motley band of untrained but arrogantly “knowledgeable” legal workers, who treat under cover of “darkness”. It might be that my borax was aimed to them.

    I believe that many members of the public are painfully aware of the attitude toward unjust enrichment (“relentless drive for personal wealth”) and take take take until there is nothing takeable left, of these “diagnosers and treatment providers”. This is despite their total lack of recognised qualifications in assessing and providing successful treatment.

    Your comparison of the “medical model” to the “legal model” is very informative and productive, through all of the activities of the familycaught.

    The medical model respects safety issues in the real world, whereas the “legal model” is more related to discussing safety, in the absence of factual information about the hazards and the degree of hazard resulting from different treatments available.

    In particular, the medical model uses real world evidence to improve the quality of treatment offered, where the “legal model” only uses untested opinions and evidence relating to untaken, not-yet-taken and takeable other peoples’ wealth.

    You comment on the familycaught adversarial model. The Family Proceedings Act and Family Caught Rules do provide the possibility of the inquisitorial mode of operation. The familycaught does operate in this way on occasion.

    However, this mode puts less pressure on customers to pay more for legal-workers, so they tend to revert to the far more profitable or extortionate adversarial mode. This is a conflict of interest and they ruthlessly exploit the possibilities that it offers, while takeable wealth remains available. Example – house equity.

    I share your caution about the use of drugs and electroconvulsive treatment therapy (ECT). I am an electrical engineer and anything electrical is really good. The more electricity the better, its just so convenient and easy!

    Supporting the medical model doesn’t necessarily imply ECT, as the treatment offered should be evidence based. I am sure that the treatments that you have proposed are well supported by real world evidence, far more so than drugs or ECT.

    Certainly there are severe ethical problems with researching PAS treatments. However, many ethical problems in research can be sidestepped to some extent, by making use of situations created by others, which may then allow good quality research to be completed (without breaching ethical guidelines). Dr. Amy Baker has published a collection of experiences of adults, who had been abducted as children, by one of their parents and the long term consequences that flowed on from that. This is a good example of making use of situations created by others, for which the researcher does not bear ethical responsibility.

    The treatments that you suggest seem very appropriate and conservative and fit in with existing guidelines (to the limit of my knowledge). My concerns about treatment relate to treatment provided by untrained workers, whose values are “relentless drive for easy personal wealth”.

    The two main opportunities for PAS lie in breached access and child abduction. Both of these are relatively straightforward to provide a much higher degree of protection for the children.

    Breached access is presently milked by the familycaught, by insisting on issuing warrants to enforce only when the access is actually breached, almost always while the familycaught is closed! This is to extort non-custodial parents (I know this term is now obsoleted by CoCAct, but it still seems strangely relevant and useful) to employ a workless-legal-worker.

    Most important is to stop child abduction in the first place, as far as possible. Presently, international child abduction generates $10 to $20 million income for legal-workers per year. This creates quite a sharp conflict of interest. Some judges will protect children from abduction, even though they know that they are indirectly losing income by doing this. This is a big ask. Unfortunately a large minority prefer to offer protection only after the abduction has been completed, preserving for themselves the income stream that results.

    Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff style!

    If NZ parents want to protect their children, then we must stand up and defend our children from these “legal?” bodysnatchers. I do recommend that this is worth doing. I know that it is perhaps easier to just have more children and not worry….

    Despite the lack of good quality research into PAS treatments, the best solution path lies in positively protecting children from PAS in the first place. The time delays that the familycaught mercilessly uses to extort from parents and also to pressure the Government to unnecessarily provide more funding for legal-workers and caughts, is the single factor which dramatically increases the PAS hazard to children.

    Thank you for your challenges and feedback, Cheers MurayBacon.

  11. Hans Laven says:

    No offense was taken at all Murray, all good discussion!

  12. dad4justice says:

    Dear John,
    The sinister Family Court is the only Court where there is no requirement in law that the female partner has to prove that her allegations are true. This is straight from the feminist hate handbag of venom.I am helping to collect signatures for a petition for an enquiry into male suicide following a relationship breakdown. I will dress up as Batman and chain myself to the Supreme Courthouse if need be. Enough is enough. Feminist ideology has caused far too much havoc for men. Bring back gender balance judge dread!
    Kind regards
    Pissed of Father and Forced Family Court client.

  13. Kiwi in. Space says:

    Only by direct action will anything be changed, go for it !

  14. John Dutchie says:

    ….Reply to dad4justice

    ….Sorry beg to differ with you dad4justice, concerning its only the Family Court where a Woman can lay claim to false sexual accusations..
    My ex brother in law who had the finger pointed at him by his bitter and twisted Feminist ex partner who accused of inappropriate behavior towards his own Daughters….with out any so called proof….His sorry Ass was dragged into the district court by some lovely ‘Feminists’ Policewomen…
    Like I said in my previous post, the Judge saw through the ‘Charade’ and threw the charges out in two seconds flat….
    The look of disgust from them lovely Feminist Police Officers in Court was like some ‘Gestapo’ agents who missed out on a ‘Burning at the stake’ execution…….
    All the best to Dad4justice…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  15. Paul MacKay says:

    My children were also subjected to the systematic distruction of all ties with my family, their freinds, schools and environment. Unfortunately for me I recieved legal aid and the substandard service that we all know is provided by lawyers who take on legal aid cases. But wait. I have recent letter from he Minister of courts in which she states and I quote:” I am not persuaded there is sufficient evidence to substantiate allegations of gender bias in the Family Court and the government currently has no plans to review the way the Family Court operates”.This letter is dated 23 Nov 2009. So at present I would say us fathers are up shit creek. I had tried to get advise from Menz.Org about posting this letter in full that I recieved from the Minister of Courts but dispite my phone calls and e-mails to JP I have not had a reply .

  16. John Dutchie says:

    ….Gentleman ….please have a laugh at this one…..I was at my local Cafe this morning, in Titirangi township getting my double shot flat Coffee….
    There was a Lady behind me,about in her late thirties joking how cold it was N.Z …I said pardon me,you got be kidding me..???..Anyway this N.Z Lady was from Perth,she as been living there with her family for over nine years….I ask her would she would ever come back permanently to N.Z to live….She looked me straight in the Eye and said….’No way,I have two young adult teenage Sons there is no way I want them to live N.Z…’
    I laughed and said ‘Lady this is meant in no disrespect to you,and I am just been cheeky here….But surly you would want your Sons to come back to N.Z to feel Liberated by ‘Feminism’…???
    She burst out laughing….and in a loud voice, so every one in the Cafe could hear ……’That is exactly what has totally [email protected]#ked N.Z,this political correct Feminism crap’….I shook her hand and thank her and she said ‘You most welcome,Australia is a great Country and Perth is a great City and I don’t blame you and wanting to take your Son across the ditch…Do it’
    And this from a N.Z Lady ….and a School teacher….

    Have a great day Gentleman …kind regards John Dutchie

  17. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Paul MacKey post

    …Paul ,I am not surprised to hear on what you have posted…
    Do remember there was a massive effort,by some very intelligent and prominent people like Doctor Don Brash to have a major public inquiry into the Peter Ellis case…

    This was fought tooth and nail by the ‘Powers to be’ for not to happen…. e.g one was the N.Z Justice department..I wonder why….????

    Because it would open a massive flood gate of complaints from Men/Fathers who basically have been to Hell and back…as in been imprisoned on false accusation of Rape and inappropriate behavior on there own Children…Enough said….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  18. noconfidence says:

    Was that woman single John ? Because I think I’m in love with her already … lol 🙂

  19. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear John, the flood of complaints would also include a very large number of women. Maybe you travel in circles, where you hear men’s complaints more?

    This might surprise you, but remember CYFs use the familycaught, or familycaught use CYFs? as an on-tap source of “work”. It is a very convenient relationship financially. Sometimes it does protect children too. Often, it damages children who don’t need intervention. This is the classic of taking the right number of children, but not the actual right children that need protecting. CYFs have a lot of poorly and untrained staff, same situation as familycaught. (CYFs staff aren’t as overpaid as familycaught staff though.)

    Also, more women are ripped off through poor quality “legal-workers’-aid work” than men. Initially they may think it was a joke, as the Government paid for it.

    If they later gain work or inherit, then they do end up paying for this “legal work”, that by then they have realised was possibly unwarranted, wasteful, incompetent, against their interests etc, each case is a bit different.

    Due to this time delay until realisation, women are often much less aware that they have been ripped off. The realisation is usually over a long period of time, keeping down the intensity of feeling that results.

    Some people don’t see any other option, than having lawyers who perceive their relationships with the public as being short term and to milked-to-the-max, while the opportunity is open.

    There are other options, that a large number of people are using. It is not talked about as loudly, as it is just business as usual.

    People who employ lawyers efficiently, establish a relationship with their lawyer, which gives the incentive to the lawyer to act honestly and straightforwardly, to maintain a long term relationship. They check around very carefully before they employ a lawyer. They insist on monthly billing and pay the bill quickly on receipt. (This does require having sufficient cash on hand.) If the lawyer steps out of line, the work is quickly transferred to a different lawyer, who will work honestly and competently.

    You will notice that many lawyers “suggest”, don’t worry about the bills now, I will just take it out of the house sale later. This removes from the customer all possibility of controlling the rate at which they are being billed. You can see the diamond flashing in the legal-worker’s teeth, as they say it. The customer is lulled into a false sense of security, as the Law Society will protect them from overbilling – but it is just the Legal-Workers’-Union!!! Conflict of interest again! Conflict of interest always shows up, where their are now unsolveable problems for customers. Best to remove the conflict of interest and not even get into the problem in the first place. This is why it is a very important issue, when “judges” are not honest about their involvement in conflicts of interest.

    Rather than waste time, effort and money on complaining to the Legal-Workers-Union (Law Society), it is better to put the effort into keeping the lawyers scope to go off the tracks, as small as possible. If the work is heavy, these successful customers may insist on weekly billing, to keep a tight reign on charges. If something goes a little wrong, they just pay the last wrongful bill and laugh in the defunct lawyers face. The ongoing work then goes to a different lawyer.

    More trustworthy lawyers will suggest frequent regular billing.

    Learn from the people who do it right, rather than from the less successful people. Lawyers were not always lazy and greedy. I can remember the time when most lawyers were honest, in my lifetime. I am sure that within my lifetime, we will see the majority of lawyers are honest again. (Within about 15 years, most legal work will be done by your own PC or cloud, using a programme costing under $200. This includes judicial work, in the same way. There will be more art in the screensaver, than the legal work.)

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

  20. John Dutchie says:

    reply to noconfidence

    ….L.O.L…Sorry Mate, she is very happily married ….Yep, I can understand how you could have easily fallen in love with her….I did..!!!!..
    That Lady was such a breath of fresh year…You will laugh at this one she called her Husband ‘A Real Man,not a Feminized Soft [email protected]#k’….
    I was pissing myself so much with laughter,even the Older Ladies who overheard us while the Lady and I were discussing Extreme Feminism in New Zealand were Laughing also……
    Except of course the Butch Feminists,we both got the dreaded ‘If looks could kill’….I look at them in such a way as in ‘Being it on’ if you dare….
    But they didn’t, as I have already locked horns with them on a few occasions …..And I don’t exactly mince my words to them either…..e.g ‘Take your Feminazi social engineering and shove it’…..

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  21. John Dutchie says:

    reply to MurrayBacon

    …….Have to agree with you Murray…..But in defense of the Legal profession,however I do not include Lawyers specializing in Family Law…So I can’t comment or give an honest and unbiased opinion.

    All what I can say about my Lady Lawyer who acted on my behalf in my own separation and divorce in 1993…and this is she basically said to my face,you are the Man and Father….The Justice system and the Family courts are anti Men,Fathers…pro Woman/Motherhood…

    If you want to waste your Money on my fees and fight the disputed facts in the Family court…. so be it…But you will lose….I have lot respect for this Lady Lawyer…she told it how it was….no bullshit and straight to the point….

    I do a bit of freelance consulting work with Barristers all over N.Z….99.00% of them I have found to be very ‘Ethical’ in there professional conduct.

    Yes I travel all over N.Z part my job as an Sales Manager …Your comment ‘complaints from Men’….That would be more from N.Z Men,like my self who have lived and worked overseas for number of years…My own experience is I have lived and worked in Europe for eight years and in Thailand for eighteen months….

    As for Woman complaining..most of the time I hear the usual spin ….’I am the Victem’…..sorry,if I sound super Harsh and Blunt on what I have said and I could upset some people here,so be it……

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  22. MurrayBacon says:

    Dear John, you expose my slight tongue in cheek. Cheers!

  23. noconfidence says:

    I had to add that comment after what you had said!
    Stories like that are so refreshing and at least make me realize that I am not the only one who things NZ is being run into the ground.

  24. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to MurrayBacon

    ….L.O.L….Well done Murray nothing wrong ‘Tongue in Cheek’ comments…Now,my turn ….Hmmmmmmmm…..I wonder when having a ‘Sense of Humor’ will be not ‘political correct’ anymore by our beloved N.Z control freaks social engineering Feminists…

    Reply to Noconfidence

    …I have had the honor and privilege to live and work in The Netherlands for six years,when I was a young Man,base point was Amsterdam….spent a full two years on the road as in exploring all Europe from Scandinavia right down to Turkey,my most favorite Country in Europe was Portugal.

    I am have dual nationality as in a .N.Z passport,for I was born here….I also have an Netherlands passport as both of my parents are from The Netherlands who emigrated to N.Z in the early 1950s….I am very proud of my Heritage
    I can understand and read basic Netherlands…thats about it…L.O.L…

    Oh just let every one know, my best friends in the Netherlands are in the Amsterdam police force…they have study the ‘Peter Ellis’ case extremely well….And there words are ….’that was nothing more then an Kiwi Feminist witch hunt’…also they take great pleasure, with the typical Dutch sense of humor in emailing me saying ‘Have all N.Z Men and Fathers been sent to Prison yet,for it seems to us that all Kiwi Woman think you
    Kiwi Men/Fathers are all Potential Rapists and Potential Pedophiles’

    ……..What a sad indictment on New Zealand …

    My Amsterdam police officers friends(note, two of them are Dutch Woman) also recommended to me to do a Google search on ‘Kiwi Woman’…A real pleasant read….Not….!!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  25. Paul MacKay says:

    In reply to John Dutchie.

    Yes John I agree. I think in light of the battle ahead we as fathers need to take more drastic action to foster more public awareness. We need the numbers in order to protest successfully. We are all aware that too date mens rights in the FC have not improved at all. No progress has been made whatsoever ( please see my last reply) and the government does not give a frogs fat arse about mens lack of rights. Nothing has worked too date AT ALL!!!! I can remember going to Northcote meetings once a week during the initial stages of may painful separation proceedings ( some seven years ago and seeing my fellow men in tears at these group meetings and discussing the same old same old about changing the sytem. We need too act, to be proactive and do whatever it takes ( within the law) to direct public attention to our plight.

  26. John Dutchie says:

    ….Reply to Paul

    …..I saw the ‘Grief’ and ‘Anguish’ and the ‘Tears’ of my ex brother when was falsely accused of inappropriate sexual behavior on his two Daughters, by his ex bitter and twisted partner….

    Down below is another famous quote by an Feminist…

    “All men are rapists and that’s all they are”
    — Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

    ‘Tongue in Cheek’….Gentleman once again, don’t you feel wonderful and have that fuzzy warm feeling to be so Liberated by Feminism……Yeah right…!!!!

    John Dutchie

  27. John Dutchie says:

    Allan, this for you, as in please could you really enlighten me how can this statement by an so called respect and famous Feminist….Can be so liberating for Men and Fatherhood……??????

    If you can’t….Maybe the of ‘The Ministry of Woman”s Affairs’ of New Zealand could explain ….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    “Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the
    experience.” – Catherine Comins

  28. As one of the contributing authors to the proposal currently before the DSM Review Board, I just want to thank the author for the post and encourage all of you to write letters telling the board members how parental alienation has affected your lives.

    If anyone would like more information on this topic before writing the letter, there is excellent information and resources at http://www.afamilysheartbreak.com.

    Thanks to everyone for your support.

    Sincerely,

    jeff opperman

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