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Download Suicide Petition

Filed under: General — Ministry of Men's Affairs @ 6:21 pm Fri 12th March 2010

Well I haven’t been able to post this petition so it’s full size, but it’s big enough to collect signatures on. If anyone finds a way to restore it to fit almost an entire A4 page, they could inform the group.


  1. Awesome! Thank-you Hans.
    I’ve printed my copy out to fit an A4 page by viewing the image with Windows Picture & Fax Viewer and selecting the Print Icon at the bottom of the window. You should be shown options that allow for the different sizes of printing options available. One option is for Full Page Fax or Photo Print. As long as your printer is currently set up for A4 sized paper you should be fine.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 6:39 pm

  2. Oh, oh! You can’t present a petition to parliament like this.



    If you feel really strongly about an issue and you think the government needs to act on it – one option is a “petition to Parliament”.

    You’ve probably seen heaps of general petitions around. Examples might include:

    the local bike store has a petition on its counter to get the local council to put bike lanes on the roads

    a stall on the footpath with someone collecting signatures for an environmental campaign

    petitions that are circulated by email or on the internet.

    What is a “petition to Parliament”?

    A petition to Parliament is a request (signed by at least one person, but usually many people) that may try to:

    get the Government to change a law so that it works better

    ask the Government to change the way it is dealing with a national issue

    ask for more examination and thought about an issue (i.e. call for an inquiry).

    Anyone of any age may petition the House of Representatives.

    Office of the Ombudsmen

    Before you start a petition contact the Office of the Ombudsmen.

    The Office of the Ombudsmen can investigate and review decisions, recommendations or acts relating to Government departments, related organisations and local authorities.

    A petition cannot be accepted if you have not exhausted your legal remedies and the matter should be dealt with by the courts or a tribunal.

    For more information visit the website

    What can I petition Parliament about?

    You need to make sure that you have done everything else possible to get your message to Parliament and the decision-makers before you launch into doing it.

    Doing a petition is a BIG thing, ask yourself – is this an issue that:
    I strongly believe the government needs to do something about?
    I know that other people also feel strongly about?

    The more people who sign the petition the more powerful it is.

    How do I write the petition?

    Parliament is really strict about the way petitions are set out otherwise it will get sent back to you.

    Contact the Office of the Clerk to ensure no petition with a similar request has already been considered during the current term of Parliament. (Phone: 04 471 9999, email: [email protected]).

    Start the petition with the name, address and phone number of the “Principal Petitioner”. This is the person who started or organised the petition.

    Write your petition in English or Maori. Use respectful language, keep your request simple and clear

    Explain the action you want Parliament to do. Don’t include irrelevant statements.

    Sign the cover sheet and provide your address this will be used for any correspondence related to the petition.

    Ensure each signature sheet is addressed to the House of Representatives by writing or typing the words ‘To the House of Representatives’ on the top of each signature sheet. Under that line, write the request of the petition, as it appears on the cover sheet.

    Include space for people to write their name and sign. People are not required to include their addresses, but their signature(s) must be original.

    Your petition needs to be presented to Parliament by an MP. The easiest way to do this is to ask your local MP. An MP presents a petition by delivering it to the Clerk.

    Presenting a petition does not mean an MP agrees with its intent. The MP presenting the petition must sign the cover sheet.

    Check out the ‘Present a submission to Parliament’ Action Guide for more information.

    What happens next?

    When petitions are delivered by MPs to the Clerk of the House, they are checked. If your petition complies with the rules of the House, it is presented. If your petition does not comply, it will be returned to the MP.

    When a petition is presented it is allocated to the appropriate select committee and announced in the House.

    The select committee can choose how to deal with a petition. It might decide to get more information (a submission) from you. You may be asked to provide information regarding the specific nature of the petition. Your submission should be in writing. A committee may also request submissions from Government departments and other interested parties.

    Select committees may also hear oral evidence.

    A select committee has a variety of options available when reporting on a petition to the House. These include:

    a report with recommendations

    a report with no recommendations at all

    if a petition was considered with another item of business, the committee may acknowledge that and include the petition in its report on that item.

    Sometimes select committee say that nothing more should be done with the petition and its request. That doesn’t mean your petition was a waste of time. Petitions are about getting important messages heard — you have achieved that.

    The clerk of the committee will notify you of the outcome of a committee’s decision once the report on your petition is made to the House.

    If the select committee recommends actions, this then goes to the Government. The Government then has 90 days to decide what it will do about select committee recommendations. The final government report is printed and available on the parliamentary website.

    For more information about Parliament and Government go to or

    No wonder JohnP didn’t put this up. 😉

    Comment by julie — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 7:19 pm

  3. I hope you’re a good sport and don’t mind wasting paper. 😉

    I’ll write one out and make it a pdf so everyone can download and print it easily. It can be my weekend assignment.

    Comment by julie — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 7:22 pm

  4. Thanks Julie. I’ve only printed one page so far. I’ll wait until you’ve created a replacement before I make any copies.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 7:33 pm

  5. Probably the first step should be to understand the issue. Men’s suicide is a huge deal (the word huge doesn’t even give the problem justice).

    The second step would be to write to the Ombudsman with the signatures of all men’s groups *which of course all registered charity organised men’s groups would do very happily because they can’t do everything and appreciate others in the community making a move*.

    The third step would be to write a proper petition parliament cannot refuse. AND (this is important) everyone of us give it to our local MP who cannot refuse it. They must present it to parliament. The more MPs presenting, the better chance we have. All papers together make a BIG statement.

    The fourth step would be to contact every newspaper around New Zealand.

    All this can be done online.

    Comment by julie — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 7:37 pm

  6. Yes, thanks Julie. But I understand the petition wasn’t intended to be formal thing, just an indication of plenty of support that can be used for publicity and for pressure. At least, that’s what Craig Jackson said. I guess that’s why various politicians weren’t interest in accepting it in a formal way. Anyway, I’m no spokesman, just a supporter. Anyone can give Craig Jackson a phone call to clarify further, but I’m reasonably confident he has a good plan in mind.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 10:23 pm

  7. I hear you Hans.

    Craig Jackson sounds very much like Jim Bagnall. He must be a beautiful man.

    I can’t help but think of Barbara Faithfull who really meant to do something about all this. She told me how she hand typed thousands of letters and had to find the money to post all these letters to let others know.

    She says we are so lucky to have the internet and that we can e-mail everything.

    I cant help but think we can do something that really makes a difference.

    Comment by julie — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 10:58 pm

  8. Petitions containing few signatures can be submitted. The crux is in the wording. It must request action, eg MSD undertake a study into the cause of all male suicides, including seeming suicides, report back its findings and reccomendations. I do believe the name, & Signed bit is wrong also.

    To assist remember Pauls News & NZFVL support PDF format (And Doc format) Documents.

    Thank you for that Julie.

    Comment by Alastair — Fri 12th March 2010 @ 11:29 pm

  9. And we wonder why there is NO power in Pauls News, MENZ and Chucks group – Simply read the above – The clues are in EVERY message including the original very late introduction to MENZ – Should of been on this board in January and would not be here now if I had not exposed the GateKeepers – Onward – Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 6:21 am

  10. You’re a sick puppy Jim. But…

    Just out of curiosity. How many men have turned against menz and joined your site over the last few days while you’ve been attacking this site and MRAs?

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 8:41 am

  11. Yeah, way to go Jim Bailey. Criticize, denigrate, discourage. Great way to work along with others. (And the bad grammar helps too)

    You haven’t read or understood what people are saying here about the petition. They are pointing to its poor design and therefore its likely limited impact.

    You spread careless and dishonest claims about others including me. Here are some facts:
    (i) I have reported on the launch of the suicide petition here some time ago, soon after I participated in its launch in Wellington.
    (ii) The petition was not my initiative but I have supported it. I was never asked to publish it here or anywhere else; I was neither assigned that role nor did I agree to take on any such role.
    (iii) Kerry Bevin’s press release came out on March 7 (at least that’s when it was sent to me) and he asked me a day or two later to put it on MENZ. What’s the date now, Jim?

    You have known about the petition since January too. Why didn’t you post it here yourself? You would rather just carry on your incessant point-scoring efforts against others.

    But will we hear any acknowledgement from Jim Bailey that his accusations were unfair? Will we hear any repentance of his sin of untruthfulness? No way, his history suggests he will prefer to continue his bullying, lying and back-stabbing others in the movement he claims to work for. Sit back and behold!

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 9:16 am

  12. Jim Bailey says: And we wonder why there is NO power in Pauls News, MENZ and Chucks group — Simply read the above — The clues are in EVERY message

    Jim, please point out to me where your purported clues exist in post #1 (my message :)).
    NO power you say? For your information, unlike you, I WON FULL CUSTODY of my children and lived happily ever after. I did not WIN because I behaved in an anally retentive, negative or destructive manner. I did not WIN because I behaved like a defeatist, angry loser. I used my brain POWER and WON because I am a POWERful winner!
    Jim, please advise whether you still require signatures for the petition or whether your fragile temperament prefers to have a diminished petition presented instead.

    Mr Superiority Complex

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 9:39 am

  13. Hans,

    I can’t say Jim’s the only one who backstabs people who are trying to help this cause because I have written a couple of e-mails to someone who thinks he is worthwhile that were not positive. I am sure the person I wrote to is smart enough to handle it as he is a long-time member of the men’s movement. Jim’s the only man in the men’s movement I have something negative to say things about.

    Yet I am glad you’ve brought up Jim’s backstabbing. He damages this movement so much. I wish I never knew him because I don’t like hearing things he says about me to people who are not even in this movement. I look like a fool to others and I hate it. I’m not a female who has no self esteem that I would choose to be associated with Jim.

    Another time he ruined a documentary I was part of because of his anger. No-one can handle it and everyone who sees it considers the men’s movement to be made up of men like him.

    What really gets me is Jim’s selfishness and he is the most egotistical man I have ever met. I reckon some of the Mayors would have large egos too but at least they learn from their mistakes. Jim will never change. In fact, he gets worse as time goes on.

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 11:06 am

  14. BTW, Hans, I’ve written you an e-mail to get some more information.

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 11:08 am

  15. Reply to SicKofNZ

    ….Yes,I also could say,I so called ‘won’ in the long term,and what a hard and painful journey that was…..But SickofNZ the term you used ‘Won’……I would rather say,in my humble opinion, I achieved ‘justice’ as in been a active and a loving Father in the upbringing of our Daughter and Son …..

    Alastair in a previous post, made a very astute statement and I do concur with him……..
    ‘Forgive’…. yes….’Forget’…Never….Hence, I will never trust as in ‘Love or ever form a intimate relationship with a Kiwi Woman ever again……
    But I do have some real and genuine awesome Kiwi Lady friends ….And friendship is what it always will be,nothing more nothing less….and my Kiwi Lady friends know why…

    Kind regards to all John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 11:11 am

  16. Reply to Julie

    ….Julie first off…I truly thank you,and I am very humble for all the support you have given to us Fathers here on ‘Menz’…I do truly appreciate it…

    Secondly……personally I think not one fine Gentleman here on Menz would even consider you to be a ‘Fool’ fact, quite the opposite …..My respect and admiration to you Julie…

    Kind regards, and lots of Kudos to you Julie…. John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 11:29 am

  17. I will bypass this until you can see the damage the GateKeepers are doing for yourself – Onward – Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 11:54 am

  18. Why can’t I see Judge Dreads comment here? – GateKeepers in action again? – Onward – Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 12:13 pm

  19. Why can’t I see Judge Dreads comment here? — GateKeepers in action again?

    Did you write that awful comment?

    When in your life did you learn that abusing people would get them to do what you want? Did you find that people got so sick of the abuse, they just gave in and you got your own way?

    I can understand children trying this tactic but I’d like to think their parents would discipline them by not allowing them to get away with this type of behaviour so they could be healthy citizens of society.

    As an adult Jim, I think you should try and change this behaviour yourself. It’s not healthy and I am sure mothers and fathers on men’s sites would see right through it.

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 12:51 pm

  20. Answer the question Julie – Onward – Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 1:07 pm

  21. Awww, shucks.Thank-you very much for your kind words, John.

    It’s just one of those things, having society judge you by association but something you can’t get away from.

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 1:21 pm

  22. Jim Bailey says: I will bypass this until you can see the damage the GateKeepers are doing for yourself

    I’ve received no advice from any Gatekeeper from this site. There is the possibility that I’m too thick to have noticed if they have provided any hints to me.
    In fact I own and administer my own website and strictly enforce the rules dictated by USA laws regarding the content viewed by minors because my server is located in the States.
    My website has 2,100+ registered members of which I’ve personally permanently banned 87 of them. That doesn’t take in to account me personally banning the entire population of China (1.3+ billion). Websites are privately owned and are not public property. As with any private property one must obey the rules or risk being turfed out. Who doesn’t understand that?
    There are still 2,000+ registered members on my forum who enjoy their online activity without the distraction of rule-breakers. What is your problem with Gatekeepers? They’re necessary. I’m clearly a Gatekeeper and not ashamed of it. Wouldn’t it be great if Gatekeepers weren’t necessary?
    I am still unsure whether you still wish for signatures to be collected for the petition! I’ll not bother until you are clear about that.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 1:27 pm

  23. Reply to Julie

    …..No problem Julie, and I meant every word what I said in my previous post…..And I understand perfectly well in what you mean by having ‘Society judge you by association’…

    I do a quite a bit of consulting work for some Defense Barristers and had a bit of ‘run in’ with a very aggressive Crown prosecutor in the High Court this week…..Unfortunately for this Crown Prosecutor…. he met my polite ‘Dutch stubbornness’……..L.O.L……

    Take care,be safe John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 1:34 pm

  24. John Dutchie says: Yes,I also could say,I so called ‘won’ in the long term,and what a hard and painful journey that was…..But SickofNZ the term you used ‘Won’……I would rather say,in my humble opinion, I achieved ‘justice’ as in been a active and a loving Father in the upbringing of our Daughter and Son … ‘Forgive’…. yes….’Forget’…Never

    I will know I have received justice for my children and myself when the useless Police arrest my ex-wife for attempting to murder my children, for drugging and poisoning me, for her outrageous perjuries, for her wicked assaults against my children and for plotting my death using my own rifle.
    I still maintain that I WON against the injustice of our Justice Department. My win was certainly not without pain.
    I agree with the need to forgive. However forgiveness should be given when the perpetrator admits their wrongdoing and is genuinely remorseful. Failing that one can only forgive on the basis of you pitying them due to them suffering from some kind of mental incapacity.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 1:55 pm

  25. Answer the question Julie

    Or what?

    I’ll do you a favour. The answer is “NO!”

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 2:01 pm

  26. Haha I used Julie’s name in my children’s book about Parental Alienation because of the great support she offers us here. I was talking to Scott B about that subject and so I used his name too :p
    My Parents Were Aliens

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 2:10 pm

  27. Answer the question

    Why can’t I see Judge Dreads comment here?

    Onward – Ration Shed – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 2:10 pm

  28. I do a quite a bit of consulting work for some Defense Barristers and had a bit of ‘run in’ with a very aggressive Crown prosecutor in the High Court this week…..Unfortunately for this Crown Prosecutor…. he met my polite ‘Dutch stubbornness’……..L.O.L……

    My mother’s side of the family is Dutch. I know all about the stubbornness.;) Yet I think Dutch people are awesome and stubbornness has a good side. Like loyalty for instance.

    I’m an accountant by trade. I work for myself.

    A few years back I was offered a 20 year established accountancy business because the man who built it up didn’t want to sell it to just anyone but someone he thought worthy. He offered for me to pay 50% of the profits for 2 years as a way of buying it. I was eagerly interested but couldn’t take it over because the timing was wrong so I was left with building a business myself.

    I’d love for another opportunity like the above to come my way and I need to attract decent clients so I have to make sure my sons and myself all work together keeping up a good presentation.

    I banned all friends of my sons from coming into the house for a few years when we first moved to Auckland so that our reputation looks good. Where I live, there are many different nationalities with some having strong opinions on how members of the community should behave while we also have riff raff .With my sons coming out of a hard time in CYFS, they were attracting the wrong type in the neighbourhood.

    Now of course they’re older and making good decisions so their friends come inside the house. I enjoy them TBH. I actually like my children and their friends. I like my neighbours and my whole community and everyone seems to think well of me. I love it and would hate more than anything to be taken down by others.

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 2:43 pm

  29. Answer the question

    Why can’t I see Judge Dreads comment here?

    The answer is still “No!”, Jim.

    I’m not going to play this all day because I have better things to do.


    You’re on your own Jim, because that’s how you choose to do life. Good luck to you, … over and out!

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 3:00 pm

  30. hehe that was fun!

    Comment by Scott B — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 3:06 pm

  31. SicKofNZ,

    You’re awesome.

    And the book is awesome too.

    Comment by julie — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 3:33 pm

  32. Well done! More please!
    I’m not sure if the girls brother is supposed to be her ‘bother’ or not.

    Regardless, it is funny, clever, factual, simple, and something I’ll be handing around if you are ok with that.
    If anyone asks (like a New York or London publisher), I’ll be sure to send them your way 🙂

    Comment by noconfidence — Sat 13th March 2010 @ 11:22 pm

  33. Yeah sure, pass it around. Make good use of it. I understand the ‘brother’ remark. I was tempted to make one sibling white and the other one brown but resisted the temptation :p. After all it is a serious message that will likely benefit fathers and children mostly although not exclusively I’m sure.

    More please!

    I’ll have to think of some more themes but I’ll do some more as time permits. Thanks for the encouragement.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 1:10 am

  34. Oh, Jim Bailey. Ordering other people to answer your question? When you won’t answer the questions others have put to you. Jawohl, mein Fuhrer. We will follow your every order.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 11:44 am

  35. I phoned Craig this morning and had a wonderful discussion with him about this petition and much more regarding men’s issues and the men’s movement in New Zealand. I’m so glad I did this because I was able to get a lot of insight from a man who has been working for men’s rights for 31 years.

    Firstly, he made this petition professionally (you don’t need addresses any more), went through the right channels for it to be accepted and it will be presented to parliament this Friday, 19th March by Annette King. He says it is too late for us to collect but thanks us for the support. I have been waiting for Larry Baldock who is the wizzkid (so they say) at petitions and was behind the ‘no smacking referendum’ to help with this but I can see Craig knows what he is doing.

    Secondly, I think Craig is terrific and look forward to knowing him better. I’d even like to interview him for an article so as to share his wisdom. He is easy to talk to.


    Craig is another MRA who doesn’t like the online men’s sites because they are used as a place where men are attacking other men instead of working together. I spoke with him about this and who is doing the attacking. This was of no surprise to Craig and he explained that some men in the movement are damaged and like most MRAs he is empathetic to their ‘men’s journey’.

    I think there needs to be more backup for the men who are achieving when they get attacked by damaged men. What happened to Allan was very wrong especially considering how valuable he is and how men like Craig need him. Yet Allan is just another man who has been driven away. Already many, many good men have fled men’s sites because of unfair, unjust, abusive treatment from men who are damaged, which is a terrible loss to new members who want to support and contribute to men’s rights.

    I’d like to see that changed and told Craig they’d have more support if they connected with online men. He says they need more support at protests and for men’s groups.

    Comment by julie — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 11:58 am

  36. Reply to Hans

    Your comment below was very nicely said Hans……And I concur with you….

    Well done John Dutchie

    Oh, Jim Bailey. Ordering other people to answer your question? When you won’t answer the questions others have put to you. Jawohl, mein Fuhrer. We will follow your every order.

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 12:19 pm

  37. Hans, Jim would have gone on all day demanding me to answer his question. He had another “Give me the answer” comment waiting to be moderated, one comment to you demanding you to answer to him and another running me down.

    If we comment to his comments today, we should under fairness allow him to comment back. I’d rather take Jim as a lesson and move on.

    Comment by julie — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 12:31 pm

  38. Not only Allan, He is getting on with with what he does best in the family court, and achieving it. What about Darryl? He will in all probability never reappear. I am sickened by some of the nonsense, mush prefering the moderated groups. In these you can have a robust discussion without tirades and abuse. On Pauls News I can’t remember the last time someone got banned. The last 3 I Banned on Talk were spammers! So much for being a gatekeeper. If abuse and lies as perpetrated by Bailey and Burns reappear, you may well loose me, or is that their goal?

    Comment by Alastair — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 2:21 pm

  39. I don’t blame Darryl nor Allan for walking away and I wouldn’t blame you either Alistair. Just in the past few days I’ve become disheartened, sad, drained and unmotivated and yet I’ve copped far less than you guys.

    But at the same time, it’s been a good experience and I’ve grown in another way. I can give true empathy for what you guys have been through.

    Alistair, you don’t need to answer to abusive men. This whole gatekeeper thing gets a reaction. If no-one reacted to it, the user would drop it.

    Comment by julie — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 5:18 pm

  40. Thanks Julie! I will stay watching, and putting sixpence in where it may help. It is amazing the numbers who will not listen though.

    No matter how far you reach out unless the other accepts it, one is simply ones time! If I miss something julie, you know how to get me! 🙂

    Comment by Alastair — Sun 14th March 2010 @ 5:53 pm

  41. Yes, I agree Julie. I have nothing to do with moderating his posts. Although I’m glad most of them are being disallowed because they are nothing more than destructive, I would prefer some of his replies to be published. They show him up as a nasty, shallow thinking person. It’s interesting that he complains about “the gatekeepers”, i.e. moderators of this and other internet groups that allow postings and replies from members and that sometimes have quite rightly blocked or banned Jim’s rule breaking and manipulative violence against others in the movement he claims to support. When it comes to his own web newsletter, it’s totally under his control, he decides on everything that gets included in it or not.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Tue 16th March 2010 @ 7:24 pm

  42. Well put Hans. I am absolutely fed up with his “Newsletters” He has seemingly refused to refuse my name! I think it is easier to get off a Readers Digest mailing list than stop Jim spamming you!

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 16th March 2010 @ 7:40 pm

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