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Empty Pushchair Attacks Whitehall – again

Filed under: Law & Courts — MurrayBacon @ 9:27 am Wed 3rd November 2010

Fathers Need Families UK are organising a march on Whitehall, to support shared parenting and a less profit driven family law (ie less adversarial) approach in UK.

Such an approach would improve the situation of children, rather than financially pilfering and socially damaging families, as familycaughts in UK and NZ are currently operating.

This brings to mind the empty wheelchair image used effectively by Wayne Pruden, a few years ago, on his march from Hamilton to Wellington. Wayne’s march and the UK march are both midwinter!

Have a look at Fathers Need Families website, there is a lot of good parenting and political information on it.
Families Need Fathers

Beside, Wayne’s call for an enquiry into the operation of familycaught in NZ is just as necessary today, as when Wayne made the call previously.

In fact, the entire caught system in NZ is desperate for remedial work, on cost, quality, timeliness and performance.

This is a big ask, as the largest single job group in Parliament, are legal-workers.
Wayne’s call was asking them to act against their own financial interests and they refused absolutely!
Their refusal was effected in several separate small pieces, so as to attract the minimum of public attention. Wayne’s petition was finally scuttled by National, shortly after they took power. The initial refusal, well really doing no without actually saying no directly and honestly, was done by the dying Labour administration.
This type of situation is called “conflict of interest”.

Are un-managed conflicts of interest hazardous to our children and our wealth?

There are many other articles on MENZ, covering conflict of interest situations. You can find them by entering conflict of interest into the search field, at the top right of this page.

It seems that the public must put a large amount of pressure onto our politicians, to protect our families interests, from the voracious money appetites of legal-workers and their families.


  1. Correct! As a mother I cant think of anyone better suited to decide what is best (and ensure that happens) for my child. I think the same can be said of a father. What we need in the system is mediators btw parents not legal professionals???? is that an oxymoron? who endeavour to make cases drag on (not in the best interests of anyone but them) and line their own pockets with gold. I had a lawyer for child pressing me to attend a court registrars review recently without counsel and when I told her I couldnt attend because I had no counsel and that the issue was about fair justice not time or money the preverbial hit the fan. Get these people out of our families! How can a lawyer for child know better than the childs own parents what is in the childs best interests especially when dollar signs are flashing in her eyes! My child is a human being not a dollar sign on a profit and loss statement,

    Comment by Debbie — Wed 3rd November 2010 @ 9:53 pm

  2. I recently invited my ex-wife to a private mediation as her lawyer was not interested in going further with court appointed mediation. She finally accepted my offer. However, her lawyer and the L4C (ie. her 2nd lawyer) wanted to be present at the private mediation AND wanted 2 other lawyers to be present !!!!!! Talk about a cash cow situation!!!
    I’ve honestly no idea where to go next. They’ve rubbished a very good mediator in the process and it’s obvious to me that it’s not about what’s in the best interests of the children it’s about controlling me.

    Comment by noconfidence — Sat 6th November 2010 @ 8:12 am

  3. Dear Noconfidence,
    when the Washington Post reporters were investigating President Nixon and his Watergate breakins, their anonymous informant often answered their questions with just “follow the money trail”. Whenever I hear people discussing slow and poor quality performance of legal-workers (lawyers and “judges”), this suggestion comes back to mind.

    The mediator that you trusted probably could have sorted out the dispute reasonably well, quickly and at low cost for both of you. (Thus no great profit for the legal-workers, waiting around like vultures.)

    If the legal-workers can keep the dispute in their hands, then they will make a much larger profit. (Obviously what is TAKEN, has come from somewhere ie a hard working tax paying parent.)

    The equations are easy to understand, but harder to see when you are lost in a dispute.

    Recovered memory therapists have come under criticism for giving therapy of damaging and doubtful quality and ripping off the assets of their clients.

    Are our familycaught fiends any better?
    I believe that you CAN have confidence in the familycaught, they are some of the best asset strippers in NZ. Not fast, but they leave very little flesh on the bones.

    Get advice from several sources, eg legal workers and also from people who have been through the mangle.
    Preferably from people who have survived the mangle, as well as from some people who where terribly mangled.

    Try to communicate directly with the other party of your dispute. Intermediaries can easily corrupt the communications, possibly for their personal financial advantage. (The word corrupt does spring to mind!)

    Mediation well done is usually productive, efficient and cost effective. Generally, there is no need to have any lawyer present. Many mediators ask people to not bring lawyers, but to ask for lawyers advice away from the mediation meeting. This is generally the most constructive path and cost effective too.

    If your ex wants her lawyer and she pays the bills for that, then of course she can have her lawyer present. After a couple of hours, if the lawyers are slowing the mediation down, then she should be paying the share of the mediator’s time that is being wasted by her method of operation.

    You ex should soon work out the value of her lawyer in the process????
    Especially as she sees her money draining away, for nothing…

    It is important for parties to be able to see their costs immediately. Then they can respond to get best value for money. (Why then do legal-workers say “don’t worry about me billing you now, I will take it out of the house sale!!!!! – they can bill you as high as they like and you cannot dispute their bill. They wait patiently, but maybe bill $20,000 higher than if you had paid them month by month, or better still week by week, or meeting by meeting. All good spendable money – YOURS and HER’S!)

    Many disputes are fueled by one party having unrealistic expectations. Sometimes these are supplied by legal-workers. If you sense that this is part of the fuel in your dispute, then it may pay to start with both parties laying out their expectations and why they see this as being achievable or proper.

    Dear Debbie, thanks for sharing your experiences.

    The point is, make your OWN decisions. Legal workers often manipulate situations, so you think you have no choice but to follow their path. Mostly, you do have a lot of choice, if you can find out what options are available.

    Just as recovered memory therapists won’t warn you about their total costs and the poor quality of their service, neither will legal-workers. (By legal-worker I do mean “judges” as well as lawyers.)

    So you must get good quality advice from people in the real world, where people do get value for money and children are protected too.

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon - axe murderer — Sat 6th November 2010 @ 9:04 am

  4. In an ideal world we’d sit down, discuss the issues that we have and be able to work out a solution that is child focused and workable for everyone, and that everyone is happy with.
    However, my ex is the type that is being manipulated. She refuses to discuss anything with me unless its through her lawyer. Her lawyer is the type that is milking her very well. And my ex has a partner who is a wealthy man so the income is a potentially endless source … Me? I see any money that goes to this bottomless pit as money that I can’t give to my kids.

    Where do I go from here ? No idea. The system stinks so much that no-one will be able to pass it by without noting it. I’ll record the next hearing and release it on a website to show the injustice and misandry that occur in that place.
    Any suggestions of private (non-family court) mediators in Auckland that I can suggest to her next (I know full well that they will get rejected as they are not family court mediators…)

    Comment by noconfidence — Sat 6th November 2010 @ 11:07 am

  5. Dear Noconfidence,

    I suggest that you make contact with several people who have had experience with familyccaught.

    While a member of North Shore Men’s Centre, I listened to many men (and quite a few women too) speak of their experiences, negotiating with ex-partners about children and their experiences in familycaught.

    MENZ.ORG does tend to receive posts from dissatisfied customers of familycaught, more than satisfied customers. Whilst most people at Men’s Centre were pretty scathing about familycaught, it was noticeable that the men who were less frustrated had certain common threads in their approach to dealing with familycaught.

    They were:
    more streetwise ie not so easily misled by what legal workers said (eg lawyers and “judges”)
    had far lower expectations of familycaught eg were not led to false expectations of familycaught process,
    by reading legislation and expecting familycaught to follow the legislation,
    they never acted rich or powerful, they played themselves down,
    they were well informed and listened to a wide range of people
    were well prepared for what might happen, based on factual knowledge of what to expect

    Conversely, the people who were most hurt by familycaught:
    expected it to be “fair”
    placed their trust in legal-workers
    expected it to follow legislation
    expected legal workers to act diligently, competently and cost effectively to serve their interest
    (even if on legal-worker’s-aid)
    expected familycaught to weigh “evidence” from both parties and make a reasoned judgement

    These men were often fairly severely disadvantaged in terms of access with their children, initially. They lost “everything” initially in familycaught, except their money and assets. Over a little time, the “everything” that they lost on paper in familycaught, turned out to not be worth much in the real world.

    Once their ex realised that her “wins” in familycaught were only meaningless pieces of paper, she usually then started to negotiate more directly and honestly in the real world. Not too much time later, there was a more stable equilibrium achieved in the real world, at far lower cost.

    I was reluctant at first to believe my own ears and eyes. I tried to fight these ideas, as WRONG!!!

    Eventually, I realised even if I was uncomfortable with this strange new reality, that it is more constructive to deal with the world as it is, rather than to persist in self delusion, by expecting legal-workers to be hard working, competent and fair.

    It is better to work for positive change, whilst still enjoying life, than to destroy yourself by moaning “it just isn’t fair!”

    Get on with life and enjoy it!

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon - axe murderer — Sat 6th November 2010 @ 3:51 pm

  6. Here’s a man in the UK who gets my vote!

    Comment by Skeptik — Tue 25th January 2011 @ 1:29 pm

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