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What can you do if what she says are lies
ngapuhistylz201, By ‘she’ I understand you are a male, and either you have a temporary protection order or you have already been served with a final one and contemplating to defend it or discharge it.
Answer to your question: Remain calm. You ex does not tell lies. The SYSTEM does.
There is nothing you can do. The judge will believe her and use the law to serve you with a protection order. You do not need to have done something for the judge to believe her. The law is explicit: She just needs to think it or perceive it. And then there is a gray area of speculation called psychological abuse: the judge will use that just in case everything else fails.
Note: Psychological violence and abuse is a female trait or a trait of the week. Male have their fist if they need to exercise any violence or abuse. Somehow the gender lobby managed to turn the tables and make it used against male in Court without any evidence.
And more importantly a judge as is my case will write in her decision things you did not think or say or even contrary to what you said. Judges have to cover their neck and the easy thing to do is to serve you with a protection orders. The system demands a quota and they have to provide them no matter how. They need ammunitions to defend themselves against the gender lobby that is Women Refuge.
What to do?
0- This is not done only to you. More than half of the males roaming in your town have been served by a protection order.
1- Clearly identify you enemy: It is not your partner or wife. It is the system (Lawyers, Family Court)
Entirely take your ex out of the picture. You are fighting a dirty system.
2- You will be requested to attend a violence program. You can object to this. Your are not violent right?
If however you attend it ( and if you do not the system has the right to send you to jail and you will have to attend the course after jail and a fee) the system will take it as you admitting to violence hence your wish to ‘reform’.
3 Your MP, and all the people you thought were great and rode on your back to parlement will deceive you. They will be of no assistance to you. The best they will do is to ask you to dip into your pocket to hire a lawyer. They will usually recommend to you one or two ‘good’ lawyers.
Take my word for it. There is not a single lawyer who will admit to you that you are wasting your time and money with them. They can do absolutely nothing in court to help you. The Judge is simply incapable of not serving you with a protection order: Save your money to be able toys for your children for Chrismas. Refuse to consent to anything and defend every thing.
4. Represent yourself. Constitute yourself as a lawyer. Take this as a challenge. It will strengthen you and you will learn a lot about you belove New Zealand starting from judges. Remember your ex is irrelevant. Ignore her completely. In the court remain confident, peaceful and strong.
5. You will have many enemies during this process: your wifes’ lawyer paid for by the system, the children’ lawyer paid for by the system, the staff of the Family Court (these are hard to de-code their deceit)
6. You will come out of it a strong MAN and Dad.
In addition to tren’s excellent advice you can take a McKenzie friend into the family court with you – to enhance your chances that the judge and other ‘court’ staff will be honest due to there being another witness apart from yourself to their behavior.
See here for more details.
Yes a Mackenzie friend is very important as a witness to the Court process.
One more advice: If you are asked questions by the ex lawyer or anyone else insist the questions are from information before the Court like affidavits. To a question you think outside what is the Court allows (only information before It) your response should be a question like: Which paragraph? (Affidavits are in form of paragraphs)
dont give up, your in for a long hard slog, focus on your kids and not the lies. its the law thats wrong.
it is fairly important not to take any caught process too seriously. People who take caughts seriously, suffer the most damage.
We all enjoy watching TV drama’s where injustice gets sorted out, in the lifetime of the accused, but in reality, the accused is pretty much financially destroyed by their own legal-worker’s bills, leave alone whether they get found not guilty or guilty!!! Example – the co-defendants of Peter Ellis were bankrupted, lost their houses and lost their jobs, even though charges were dropped during the hearing!!!!
It is very important that you understand what caughts are for, so that you can protect yourself from these thieves.
To put these issues into perspective, for the case of Domestic Violence Act POs, see:
When the caughts are more than just fictional entertainment, then you do have a problem. Certainly there are victims in caught, your only worthwhile defense is to never put yourself into a position where you can be forced to take part in one of these street theatre/self sacrifices.
The grounds for awarding a protection order are so vague and all encompassing that it is difficult to defeat such an application by only defending it. To defeat a protection order application you need to cross-apply for your own protection order against the applicant.
You will then be encouraged by the court to negotiate a settlement that involves mutual undertakings. That is, you promise the court to leave each other alone.
If you do breach the undertakings you don’t face the risk of being arrested by the police for breaching a protection order although if your breach is heard by the court, then a protection order may be made against you.
I was charged with breaching the temporary protection order because a freind of mine contacted the ex asking her hwo she is doing /small talk . The police alleged I asked her to contact the ex. My friedn said NO but I was still chragde with the breach .
Now comes the travesty. The constable and the rposecutor are for /warning/ diversion but then all of sudden a diversion officer woman said NO to diversion.
My choice is to admit to guilty and apply for review of the diversion refusal , to plead guilty and have criminal file or to spend $ 4000 for a lawyer who will defend me ona non guilty plea.
If on ly I can post the explanation of that woman diversion officer – it is worse than a Spanish inqusition . I think to swallow my pride and apply for diversion refusal review. the only condition is to ” admit” the guilt . I feel horible at the moment/Really and truly horrible
Tony it all depends on the evidence.
Have the coppers provided you with full disclosure?
This case will largely depend on the evidence of the friend who made contact and the Police need to show the link/nexus with you encouraging her to make the contact.
Diversion is a crock and will come to kick you in Family Court later. Take care, yes a simple “out” but take care of the long term consequences.
Please tell me if asking for Affidavits from the direct witnesses to two alleged loitering incidents can be seen by the Judge as a ” threating” actions on my side?
In my case , The Judge ruled that applicant’s three loitering allegations are not true. The Judge aslo also acknowledged that the Applicant neither responded to my notice to admit facts nor she vere denied my my allegations she is making false loitering allegations . The Judge aslo aknwoledged that i felt frustrated by applicants legal behaviour.
Still i was given a PO because ” I developed a tunel vision when trying to get to the bottom of things” Judge said that I intimidated the Applicant by doing so. Any help to understand that ?
Flick me an e-mail allan.harvey”at”xtra.co.nz.
This is not the place to be discussing active cases.
It’s probably new territory.
You may be the first to explore that forest, and not get any replies.
Looks like the applicant expects to live a silo-life.
George Simonovski @9: We regret to inform you that your experience in the Family Court is typical for men. It appears that your learned judge recognized the female’s allegations were false and that she committed perjury, and that she (and her lawyer) failed to participate in good faith in the Court process. Yet your efforts to defend yourself against her dishonesty and to protect your legal rights were seen as the only problem leading to a judgement favouring the dishonest female and damaging your life.
We hear about such nonsense constantly. Any effort by a male litigant to defend his rights places him at risk of being treated as an abuser. The Court’s primary, often only concern, is to ensure the female is accepting of any outcome and is protected from any unhappiness including accountability and embarrassment for her dishonesty in the Court process. The Femily Court seems to welcome false allegations from women, possibly because it can get away with white-knighting dishonest women and thereby extending the lucrative income stream a dispute might provide for the lawyers.
Feminist beliefs about men being abusers and women being innocent victims are heavily entrenched in our society including (especially) our judges and lawyers. Legal workers are routinely indoctrinated by seminars from women’s groups but you can bet few of them have ever attended a seminar from a men’s or fathers’ organisation, or ever even met with any men’s support group. It wouldn’t make much difference if they did because family law is now largely based on ‘man abuser woman victim’ beliefs and other feminist ideology, shaping the anti-male sexist behaviour of this Court. The law has been written in such a way as to allow the judges almost unlimited freedom to reach creative interpretations in line with male-blaming ideology and judgements.
Sadly, the ultimate victims of the Femily Court’s sexism are the children who have their relationships with their father eroded or wrecked by vindictive women facilitated by this Court. Children’s fathers are either demoralized towards self-destructive attitudes and behaviour or provoked into violent or unwise reactions.
We would encourage you to call out your Court’s injustice. Appeal to a higher Court with your evidence that your efforts to participate in the Family Court proceedings honestly and trying to protect your legal rights were defined as threatening the female and deserving of a protection order (while the actual allegations supporting her application were found to be false, and her dishonesty and abuse of Court process were not seen as threatening towards you). Alternatively, walk away, have nothing further to do with both the female and the corrupt, sexist Family Court.
Take up Allan Harvey’s kind offer to assist you in your decisions and responses. He is very experienced in supporting men through Court processes.
Thank you gentleman and especially to Ministry of Affairs detailed and friendly reply.I do really appreciate that.
The Court hearing had one unexpected benefit for me which even my own counselor was not bale to achive it 100% .It finally relieved me from my own projections that the Applicant (she) might be able to change toward better for the rest of her life . You have to see to believe it her crying performance.
I am not affected personally from the Judge ruling but my understanding of fair and civilised NZ is.
I am brought up to believe in just world.
I would have felt better and my basic intelligence would not have been insulted if only Judge would have said in the very first few minutes: Ok, George , here is your PO , without having to spend 3 hours on putting words in the App mouth ” Did not you feel pushed/intimidated by George asking fro Affidavits from your friends” ? The three people i asked Affidavits and got them don’t know her except at sight .
Definitely I ma going to appeal and contact Alen Harvey. thank you once again dear people
Me again, while I am waiting for Allan harvey -:)and drafting my Appeal
I was told personally at the High Court registry Auckland that the appeal fee is $540 . An experience friend just told it is $2000 . Does anyone knows for sure how much it is ?
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