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US VAWA, implications for NZ

Filed under: General — Ministry of Men's Affairs @ 9:16 am Sat 27th March 2010

Carey Roberts’ latest piece highlights how the International Violence Against Women Act, VAWA, appears to violate the US constitution. Sooner or later, keen rights advocates are likely to challenge this sexist and divisive legislation and, like many other temporary US laws, it will be shafted.

New Zealand on the other hand has no constitution. There is little protection here for any basic rights or freedoms. We have a Bill of Rights, but just this week the Key government showed how weak and irrelevant the Bill of Rights is. The fact that Key’s law changes regarding benefits was found to contravene the Bill of Rights on various grounds was simply disregarded, treated with utter contempt by that government, without consequence. Hence we put up with all manner of male denigration and anti-male sexism in law, jurisprudence, state services, advertising and business practice even though discrimination on the grounds of gender is supposedly banned under the Bill of Rights.

There is little in NZ to protect us from injustice and foolishness. We have obligations under UN conventions but much of what the UN does is ideologically captured by false feminist propaganda. The Clark government avoided signing into any conventions that might protect men or families. Even if UN conventions were sensible and just, there is only limited machinery that can oblige a government to keep to them.

New Zealand needs a constitution, some fundamental rights and freedoms on which successful states are built. If we had one, many of the profound injustices reported by men and fathers on MENZ could have been avoided. Yes, it is true that the US constitution has not protected men there from state excesses involving male-bashing and female privilege (or for that matter other assaults on individual liberties through the war on terrorism and the ridiculous war on drugs), but remember that their constitution is hundreds of years old and may not be well equipped to handle some modern trends. Also, in due course their constitution may well be invoked to quash much of the feminist male-bashing injustice that has been tolerated to date.

Incidentally, Carey Roberts points to the fact that VAWA and “the gaggle of federal and state domestic violence laws” are largely based on the theoretical “power and control” concept. This concept in relation to personal relationships arose from feminist creative thinking but has little scientific support or intellectual integrity. Roberts refers to it as a “bogeyman”, and we are reminded that its uncritical acceptance is leading to ever more ridiculous levels of injustice and illegalization of normal human behaviour. The concepts of “emotional abuse” and “coercion” are dangerously vague ideas that have been creeping into law in feminist-polluted countries. Behaviour now labelled as abuse and coercion often amounts to no more than an expression of frustration or dissatisfaction at a partner’s behaviour or lack of it, and it can be as little as expressing an opinion or making a request of a partner. Of course, exactly the same behaviour when done by a male will be much more likely to be seen as abusive or coercive than when done by a female.

Where is the fundamental morality and related code of conduct against which NZ laws and state behaviour must be measured? Is there any way other than through a constitution for NZ to protect its citizens better from the wild sea of ideological dishonesty and stupidity?

78 Responses to “US VAWA, implications for NZ”

  1. Dave says:

    1. There are problems with coding human rights. Such laws are not really a problem – it is the way they are interpreted. However perhaps it is better to have some protection in a constitution than none at all.

    2. It has always struck me that the existance of the charge “male assaults female” is as extremely prejudiced as any law in history, any where. I mean why not a “Polynesian assaults oriental” law? After all polyneasions are larger than orientals so it fits the same logic as used to justify “male assaults female”.

  2. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Dave

    Yes Dave…I understand where you are coming from on the ‘Male assaults Female’ Law…But this is my biggest concern here in N.Z…We don’t have here in N.Z, a basic ‘constitution’ and our so called beloved elected Politicians can pass any Law they want too,not for the best interest of there constituents who elected them in the first place …!!!!

    And usually our beloved Politicians attitude towards there follow citizens ….Is ‘stuff them’,we will do what we want to do…And when ‘We’ the citizens voice our grave concerns about the some of the stupid and ill conceive Laws that they have actually made into Law..We still get get told… ‘Get stuffed’…!!!…Grrrrrrrr…!!!!

    Classic case in point of a dumb ass Law …. ‘The Anti smacking bill’,now made into ‘Law’…that was a classic monumental ‘[email protected]#k up”…Grrrrrrrrrrrr…..!!!!!!!

    Don’t mention the ‘Bill of Rights’ that you as might as well use the paper that bill was written on, to wipe your rear behind after a bowl motion that how useful the bill of rights is as in protecting your so called freedom from unjust laws……

    Right, another ‘Rant and Rave’ is done……….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  3. gwallan says:

    Canary in the coal mine…

    Mexico introduced new domestic violence laws at the beginning of 2008. The framing of these laws was heavily influenced by the US National Organisation of Women.

    Under these laws the man who turns down his partner’s demands for sex can be charged with the crime of “indifference”, the punishment for which is up to five years imprisonment.

    The Mexican version of I-VAWA removes mens’ right to consent.

  4. Scott B says:

    Well said.

  5. Scott B says:

    Just cause a man could be stronger doesn’t mean he is. Plus I have seen supposedly weaker people take down stronger people if fights, cause they are simply the better fighter.

  6. Scott B says:

    So the man is legally raped?

  7. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to gwallen

    What .!!!!.Pardon me gwallen..!!!!…Let me get my head round this one…So this is what my interruption is based on ,and please, if I have this wrong…please correct me…

    So this as in ‘Domestic violence’ laws in Mexico…If a Man is not in a so called mood to have Sex with his Lady partner/Wife …He can be charge with a so called ‘Crime’…????!!!!!…….Is this for real..???…Sorry, I am just so ‘Gob smacked’,my jaw is dropping to floor on this one…..!!!

    If this is the case…Please ,could some Kiwi social engineering Feminist/s justify this so called Law in Mexico,as in how can a Man can be charged for refusing sex to his partner and it comes to be considered part of a ‘Domestic violence’ crime …Next,it will be if a Man even dares to look at a Woman without her so called consent…that will be also considered to be ‘Domestic Violence’…And off to prison he goes…..!!!!

    Yes I know a lot you Kiwi social engineering Feminist visit and read comments on this particular website…Well then, a challenge to you Kiwi social engineering Feminists…. have ‘guts’ and the ‘fortitude’ to justify this…..!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  8. Scott B says:

    I’d like a link cause I am in disbelief too!

  9. There is probably no link. This just sounds like some man’s sick fantasy.

  10. John Dutchie says:

    Reply Mary

    Sorry to say this Mary, with my experiences with ‘Kiwi’ Woman…. They have some pretty ‘Sick Fantasies’….Talk about living in the ‘land of delusions’… Well Kiwi Woman are the true masters of that one…!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  11. SicKofNZ says:

    Scott B says: I’d like a link cause I am in disbelief too!

    ‘Indifference’ To Be A Crime in Mexico

    MEXICO CITY (Reuters) – Mexican men who display extreme jealousy or avoid sex with their wives could be tried in court and punished under a new law, the special prosecutor for crimes against women told a local newspaper on Friday.

  12. The truth will be in whether an actual link is provided. From what I’ve seen on this site, people normally back up their statements with a link. 5 years imprisonment for “indifference” sounds like total rubbish.

  13. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Mary

    Oh really Mary .????..lets talk about ‘Truth’ shall we then ….
    As in what happen to ‘Peter Ellis’…???…The ‘Truth’ of what happen to ‘Peter Elli’s was nothing more then a Evil social engineering Kiwi Feminists Witch hunt, and there also have been other Males school teachers have been falsely accused and imprisoned based on a inappropriate sexual behavior charge… as in, lets just ‘point the finger’ and these Male school teachers who have been slaughtered in the ‘Feminized’ Court on pure ‘Here say’….
    But that’s right Mary,here in N.Z,Kiwi Men are deemed to be labeled by Kiwi Feminists as all ‘Evil Male Abusing monsters’…And the poor Kiwi woman are all Innocent ‘Victims’…Yeah Kiwi Woman, carry on living in the ‘land of your Delusions’…….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  14. John Dutchie says:

    Another reply to Mary

    Oh just a link for you Mary and the rest of you Kiwi social engineering Feminist/s…Might I kindly suggest to all of you,have a read on Peter Ellis on this one ‘www.peterellis.org.nz’…It even mentions the ‘Sisterhood’……..

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  15. So you are trying to change the subject. No link yet…..

    I am sure if you wanted to do, you could find the link yourself, but instead you have changed the subject. Why is it so important to you to keep bagging Kiwi women? You are being racist. It is not healthy to keep being racist. Yes, what happened to Peter Ellis was an appalling witch hunt, which had way less substance than that Police officer recently put together for charging that Judge for “keying” a citizen’s car and causing $4000 worth of damage. Witnesses galore and hard evidence, and now that Judge is going to sue for costs off the Police. That Judge was guilty as sin, anyway, like you I am off topic…

    And still no link to back up 5 years of “indifference.”

  16. rc says:

    The truth will be in whether an actual link is provided. From what I’ve seen on this site, people normally back up their statements with a link. 5 years imprisonment for “indifference” sounds like total rubbish.
    -Mary Poppins

    There’s a thing called Google which made comments like this redundant at least 10 years ago.

    I searched on ‘Mexico Sexual Indifference’, and the following was one of the first items returned. It’s from Reuters, normally a reputable information source:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2328855120070226

    Here’s the key sentences:
    Mexican men who display extreme jealousy or avoid sex with their wives could be tried in court and punished under a new law, the special prosecutor for crimes against women told a local newspaper on Friday.

    …Men found guilty of jealousy or indifference could face up to five years in prison, the newspaper said.

    If you’d like to know how to find and use Google, you need only ask one of your kids.
    If you don’t have any initiative and prefer to make summary judgments on subjects you don’t know anything about, I’m afraid I can’t help you (but hey, I’m addressing a fictional character from a fairy-tale Disney movie, so what the hell would I know?)

  17. gwallan says:

    Oops I made a mistake.

    Got my years wrong. Start of 2007, not 2008.

    Court trials for jealous husbands

    Those who stop talking to their wives, avoid sex or try to convince suspicious spouses they are “crazy” even if they are caught red-handed having an affair, are guilty of indifference, she said.

    Virtually all English language media coverage of this is gone. Surprise, surprise. There was much more extensive detail in other sources.

    I have seen Australian DV literature which calls demanding sex when she doesn’t want it AND refusing sex when she does as BOTH being abusive. Mexico’s laws merely formalise this position.

    Mary Poppins said…

    There is probably no link. This just sounds like some man’s sick fantasy.

    The man you accuse of having a “sick fantasy” is a survivor of childhood rape by an adult woman and of a violent rape by his female partner a decade ago. He is now an active advocate for victims of sexual abuse and a board member with a govt funded rape crisis and counseling service. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt as you do not know him. It will stand as your last warning however.

  18. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Mary

    L.O.L…..I am only a ‘Racist'( Actually ..’Totally Insane’ would be a better word to use)if I get involved with a ‘Kiwi’ social engineering ‘Butch’ Feminist Woman Mary…

    Hmmmmmm…Funny my young Adult Son is engaged to a wonderful, highly intelligent Asia/Indian Woman who as that strong Femininity quality …Not this typical Kiwi Woman ‘Feminist’ quality ‘You owe me,I am the Victim’ mentally…And am I happy for my Son….????? Damn straight I am …There is no way in this world that I want my young adult Son ever to get involved with a Kiwi Feminist Woman….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  19. John Dutchie says:

    Thank you rc

    …Come on Mary… As you are a the usual poor kiwi hard done by ‘Kiwi Feminist Woman’ with the usual Kiwi Woman crap of the I am the ‘Innocent Kiwi Woman’ victim syndrome mentally …Justify this indifference law in Mexico then…..Lets hear the usual ‘Butch’ Kiwi Feminists spin in action…Hmmmmmmmm….???

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  20. To:
    “Those who stop talking to their wives, avoid sex or try to convince suspicious spouses they are “crazy” even if they are caught red-handed having an affair, are guilty of indifference, she said.”

    Now that explains the full context. If the man is caught red-handed having an affair and tried to convince the wife they are “crazy” then they could be found guilty of indifference.

    Now this actually explains why a jail sentence would be considered at all.

    There have been men that have had their wives committed, or attempted to have their wives committed. If men want to go and have affairs, or leave their wife, alot of women will say, “good, go”. But what is annoying is for a man to attempt to have his cake and eat it to, but go one step further and tell one and all that she is crazy, and that he is the devoted husband.

    It is very important to not twist the facts.

    Yes, I do know that boys get raped, and on rare occassions men likewise, but I think you have twisted the Mexico-sentencing thing… abit too far.

  21. Scott B says:

    Thanks for the link. I now wait for this law to arrive here. Thank god Aunty helen isn’t in charge anymore!

  22. Scott B says:

    Mind you, the MWA is still around so it won’t take long!

  23. It is important to not twist the facts, or you get John Dutchie extrapolating from Mexican women, to Kiwi women,… and off on a tirade, and more than likely it is probably just the simple case of Mexican men being caught red-handed in the matriimonial bed with most likely 2 women at once, but then he is most likely telling the wife, “you are dreaming, or you are nuts… calm down, I am alone, you are seeing things….” and that is probably what the Mexican court sentence is really about.

  24. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Mary..

    ‘Peter Ellis was an appalling witch hunt’….my reply to your statement….

    …Wrong…!!!…Very Wrong, Mary….What happen to Peter Ellis was nothing more then a Socail Engineering Kiwi Feminist Witch hunt…And the Kiwi Feminists ultimate agenda was to get ‘Men’ totally out of the Educational sector, so these beloved Kiwi Feminists could full stream ahead ,carry on there Feminist brain washing propaganda crap…
    Just Like ‘Nazi’ Germany did with there Education sector once the ‘Nazis’ seized power in Germany in 1933…. Nothing more….Nothing less……

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  25. Scott B says:

    I’m sorry, I didn’t realise you were blind.

  26. gwallan says:

    What part of the word “or” do you not understand?

    Nothing is being twisted here except by you.

    Men who refuse sex in Mexico can go to prison.

  27. Yes, that law can’t arrive here fast enough. My husband always use to try and tell me I was crazy. …”Oh I don’t know why that woman keeps sending me dirty texts etc.” Or I don’t know how she got your number out of my phone and is sending you these lies, or that woman stole my password and put me back on the internet dating website, and wrote all that stuff about you… oh you’re just nuts…. etc.”

    Yes, I agree with Scott B. Bring that law into this country, verbatim. Thanks for the link finally.

  28. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Mary

    ‘It is very important to not twist the facts.’….What a laugh with that statement coming from a Kiwi Woman.!!..Excuse me.!!!…The best people at twisting so called facts Mary….Are ‘Feminists’…And ‘Kiwi Feminists’ are the ultimate champions at twisting the so called ‘Facts’ ….Spare me the dribble ..Miss Kiwi Feminist….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  29. Scott B says:

    F off Mary. I never said that, so bugger off.

    Seriously the powers that be, can you please ban this vile feminist?

  30. Scott B says:

    She is openly promoting rape on males!

  31. Ok, I’ll let you believe that Judges in Mexico are sending men to prison for 5 years for not sleeping with their wives. That sounds very reasonable and logical, and you are obviously so very smart. Those poor mexican men. Better start a fund for them today.

  32. Scott B says:

    Not my fault you can’t read sarcasm. Now get lost!

  33. Scott B says:

    Go away Mary

  34. Don’t worry Mary is putting the unbrella up. You men are a subset only that need to believe what you need to believe. Time does heal everything, but make sure you stay in touch with reality, otherwise time waits for no man.

  35. Scott B says:

    Don’t come back!

  36. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Mary

    …….’Quite frankly my Dear…I don’t give a Damn’…And that is what is my opinion on the whole of the majority of ‘…I need to be put on a peddle stood,I am the Victim..’ Kiwi Feminists…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  37. Time does heal everything, but make sure you stay in touch with reality, otherwise time waits for no man.

    And time waits for no woman either, hence I am going today. Next time you want me to go, ask nicely, don’t swear, and I’ll leave sooner.

  38. Scott B says:

    I have said it before, I don’t believe a word that you type, now leave and don’t come back.

  39. Scott B says:

    So it is ok for a woman to not be in the mood, but if a man isn’t… jail time.

  40. paul says:

    is it safe to come dack yet?

  41. paul says:

    thats great news i hope she is as wonderful as my asian wife.

  42. gwallan says:

    Ok, I’ll let you believe that Judges in Mexico are sending men to prison for 5 years for not sleeping with their wives. That sounds very reasonable and logical, and you are obviously so very smart. Those poor mexican men. Better start a fund for them today.

    LOL. This from somebody who proposes biblical solutions, and Old Testament solutions at that, to twenty first century issues.

    On ya broom Mary.

  43. ford says:

    mary winding up the natives huh?

  44. paul says:

    looks like it,wow ive missed so much,is she still alive??

  45. paul says:

    I didnt like her anyway,she was talking a load of s–t

  46. [Mary floats back down, puts her umbrella down, and looks around…] “Oh they’ve all gone again… Well I guess they did take their spoonful of sugar/reality again today quite happily. They’ll get there in the end…”

    [Mary puts back up her umbrella and floats off happily again]

  47. Scott B says:

    Yup, she needs to be banned from this site. Don’t need her crap.

  48. rc says:

    Apparently it’s legal in the U.S. for a man to be clubbed with a golf-club until he’s unconscious, and if the assailant is a woman and he’s a cheat, she’s innocent.

    I remember a case way back where a man slit his wife’s throat, and she was a cheat so he got off. But they had a trial in another court that found him guilty but could only fine him. Now he’s in jail for ages for trying to repossess his own property.

    I don’t think we should be importing any law from North America. We should have figured it would be crap after trying their beer, their food and their coffee. We should be making our own quality law and exporting it.

  49. paul says:

    I dont need reminding how ignorent and self centered kiwi women are,if she thinks time heals everything she must have rocks in her head,our children are always there to remind us,its been 5yrs since my break up and i always wonder how much more rounded my sons would be if they had a good solid family unit,I would have never have agreed to having children if i new my x was going to end being a s..t,how can time heal when you can see the cildren are scard for life,bloody bitches,take a look around us,the prisons and streets are full of mixed up and un loved kids most of wich is brought about by bloody women who are to self centered to understand that men are a important part in in a childs life.they seem to think that life owes them more,bullshit.wake up new zealand women,stop saying your good mothers,your full of s..t,the evidence is all around you,tidy yourselves up stop thinking of yourselves and start acting like mothers again,you have the best men in the world right at your doorstep,stop treating like shit and save the nation.

  50. gwallan says:

    I don’t think we should be importing any law from North America. We should have figured it would be crap after trying their beer, their food and their coffee. We should be making our own quality law and exporting it.

    Thing is you may not have a choice. It’s quite likely to be foisted upon us in the form of international treaty.

    Do remember that the same mob who will be enacting I VAWA – the UN – is the mob who refused food aid to men in Haiti.

  51. Skeptik says:

    Mary I see you’ve been reacting to what happened between you and the man you CHOSE to be with.
    I appreciate it must have hurt to find he was unfaithful to you …

    (My husband always use to try and tell me I was crazy. …”Oh I don’t know why that woman keeps sending me dirty texts etc.” Or I don’t know how she got your number out of my phone and is sending you these lies, or that woman stole my password and put me back on the internet dating website, and wrote all that stuff about you… oh you’re just nuts…. etc.”)

    I don’t know you at all and so have no way of knowing whether or not your statement about your husband is a lie or not.
    However even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you’re being truthful there are some serious considerations.
    First seeing the repeated high handed sarcasm you’ve been spouting I reckon it’s a fair bet that you dished such behavior out to him.
    Something he may have chosen to use as an excuse for two timing you.
    Given the fact that kiwi women can dish out such behavior towards men with impunity under modern day feminist hegemony I’d say it’s a fair bet he sustained such VIOLENCE for months, perhaps even years and gradually, inexorably drew away from you whilst fearing the wrath of feminist society if he were to ever fess up to you.
    All of his is conjecture of course and only you and he could really know what went on between you.
    What is real though is that over several decades now NZ men have bit by bit lost their right to humane treatment (Peter Ellis’ case epitomizes this hugely). I believe therefore that men in NZ therefore have good reason to believe that feminists won’t back off and be reasonable but will twist the knife deeper and deeper and maybe inclined to follow their misandric feminist counterparts in USA and Mexico. (It wouldn’t be the first time – Duluth Power and Control theory for example).
    I’m appalled to see you come visiting this site apparently to stir up trouble – notice how the men on this site want to put distance between themselves and you
    (like your ex hubby eh? Am I the only one noticing a pattern here?),
    no doubt feeling unsafe in the face of your vitriol and so imploring you to leave.
    I’d really like to see you exhibiting some empathy for the men on this site instead of provocatively winding them up.
    You have a great opportunity to get past defensiveness (as other women who post here have done previously) and learn an enormous amount about half the population. That’s the carrot. The stick is men are NZ men under feminist rule are talking to each other like never before. Our lives depend on doing so. NZ is a very small place. It won’t take long for word to get around about your attitude and behavior.
    The ball is in your court now.

  52. The 5 year prison sentence, along with the other information was simply presented out of context. And because it was presented out of context it had the effect of winding up a few men on this site. I merely asked for the link, like others, and sure enough, when we given the full information:

    “Those who stop talking to their wives, avoid sex or try to convince suspicious spouses they are “crazy” even if they are caught red-handed having an affair, are guilty of indifference…”

    I am sure deep down, men like Scott B, who was wound up the most, was in fact relieved that men were not rotting in jail, because they simply said “no.”

    Now if you want to make the mis-representation of facts all about me…

    I’ve heard this scape-goating logic many many times before… and it is enlightening, but old, …

    Well luckily for now, we have free-will in this country so if some on this site have a necessary need to bag Kiwi women then so be it. But if Mary is floating about and sees mis-information Mary has a civil duty to comment, and if those comments are rejected, so be it. And if I am banned for this, well there would be no surprises there. Having reality checks or other perspectives is a healthy thing, but if you prefer your tunnel vision, and this is invites only, then I am quite happy to exit when told.

    But if someone more aless sends me a post, then it is rude not to reply.

  53. Mis-information:
    1. Tiger W. defended his wife very assertively, and ensured that the media knew there was no assault on him from his wife.

    2. “Crimes of passion”, I think they use to call this, but that defence has been repealed along time ago.

    3. And I agree. But it is common in those countries for men to try and say their wives are nuts, before they like having a house keeper/cook while they wander… and they like having the excuse to NOT commit to these other women… and hence the Mexican Judges simply view them as rat-bags or a threat to the family-unit… or trying to push the woman to a crime of passion, which has been repealed.

  54. No, you don’t need ANYMORE crap. It wasn’t me that sent the mis-filtered information without the link originally. And now Mary is putting up her umbrella, because Mary doesn’t need her umbrella being pelted either.

  55. rc says:

    The 5 year prison sentence, along with the other information was simply presented out of context.
    -Mary Poppins

    Ok. So if there was a law jailing women for 5 years if they refused to have sex with their husbands, or if they were demonstrably over-jealous, or if they told their husbands they were crazy in order to hide their cheating, what context makes this agreeable to you? You’d be all for it right?

    By the way, notice all this stuff going on with the pope right now? I’ll bet he never, ever thought that something as trivial as kiddie-fiddling priests would get so big that a pope could be defrocked over it. I’ll bet none of his mates back in the day thought so either. That’s how it always goes. Let’s all just do whatever we want – the world will never change, we’ll never get caught, no-one will care 20 years from now.

    Wrong.

    The world always changes. People remember and they still care. They want those people dealt to who wronged them when they could just as easily have done right.

    The smart sisters who can figure this out for themselves will be jumping ship, doing everything they can to distance themselves from their past, admitting their guilt, being contrite and moving on. The dumb ones will wait until they are summoned to trial.

  56. No, I’ll tell you why they have that law, especially in a developing-type country, it is a response/solution to repealing the previous “crimes of passion” type-defence.

    But in these developing type countrys, the wife actually doesn’t go after the husband, she goes after the mistress. I use to read alot about this when I was in Fiji, where some woman had take to another woman with a club, or in worse cases with a cane-knife, but the man was left completely out of it.

    And not too long ago, I was at the supermarket in NZ and these 2 woman started having words at the exit, and they were getting louder and louder, and next minute they were having a full on cat-fight, and what was it over, the older woman’s husband… and whenever I hear about or see these cat-fights all I can think is you stupid women, why are you fighting each other for?

  57. Yes, it is good that the Pope has been made to answer about the cover-ups, that allowed exponentially more abuse to go that should have gone on.

    And yes, the world has changed, or is in transition, and it is harder for boys, than girls who were abused by men or woman adults, to express stuff later as adults, that perhaps at the time was encouraged to just be swept under the carpet. So what is happening to the Pope is very very good for wide-sweeping reasons.

    But there has also been a move from valuing the importance of the family-unit, as the back-bone of the nation, and sometimes people allow their baggage to take first priority. Baggage needs to get sorted in the end, and the family-unit is supposed to be the soft place to fall, not the place to keep playing it out, again and again and again…..

  58. Skeptik says:

    rc,
    I reckon your bang on with this statement –

    The world always changes. People remember and they still care. They want those people dealt to who wronged them when they could just as easily have done right.
    The smart sisters who can figure this out for themselves will be jumping ship, doing everything they can to distance themselves from their past, admitting their guilt, being contrite and moving on. The dumb ones will wait until they are summoned to trial.

    Mary Poppin, I see my wisdom and kind but firm feedback earlier in this thread is lost on you for now.
    Oh well too bad, you could have empathized the tiniest bit but choose to go on the offense instead. I’ll know what to expect in future from you.
    I’m glad to see you on the site though as it gives wonderful opportunities to educate readers on the kinds of noises misandrists are making.

    As to the Mexican situation a brief surf encountered a veritable who’s who of extreme feminist groups, bloggers, senators on both sides of the border – all clamoring hysterically for airtime to credential themselves as caring for – women.
    Yet horrifically in one incident alone 20 MEN were murdered in the drug-wars which men and women there are a part of.

    Across the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas, is the city of Juarez. It’s known as the murder capital of Mexico. During a 48-hour stretch this week, 37 people were killed – including residents at a drug rehab clinic.

    I couldn’t help but notice another feminist tactic of demonizing – in many of the blatantly feminist writings there were no reports of men being murdered in large numbers as they were being made invisible by being referred to as ‘people’ whereas when it was women being killed they’re called women.

    Meanwhile see who’s sorting out the problem by putting their lives on the line for their communities in borderland Mexico.
    And see who’s safely behind the front line here

    I’m glad to see there’s action being taken to reduce the appalling violence of this region.
    As bad as it the situation is I wish feminists wouldn’t use it as yet another excuse to spread their hatred of men.
    I’m not holding my breath on that one though.
    I suppose it’s business as usual for us of the expendable male sex.

  59. Thank you Optimist, for you kindly having the tolerance to keep educating me, especially when I just belong to that group called “women” with no ability to ever hear anything. I am learning alot. And you have already decided who you are, “Skeptic” and that makes your world safe, and filtered.

    Kind Regards

    Mary Poppins.

  60. gwallan says:

    The 5 year prison sentence, along with the other information was simply presented out of context.

    This thread is about the extension of the US VAWA beyond it’s borders. The Mexican laws are a consequence of feminist advocacy originating in the US. It’s context seems readily apparent to all but yourself.

    Those who stop talking to their wives, avoid sex or try to convince suspicious spouses they are “crazy” even if they are caught red-handed having an affair, are guilty of indifference

    Presented in this sentence are three distinct actions which can lead to charges of “indifference”. One of them is “avoid sex”. There is no real way of testing this outside of her asking him. So it does appear to be a crime in Mexico for a man to refuse consent to sex if his wife asks or demands it.

    The western world already pays little enough respect to male consent for anything surrounding sex and reproduction. Boys as young as twelve have been raped and subsequently forced to pay child support to their rapists. Western governments not only permit this to occur they also provide enforcement and administrative support in the process.

    These days I spend a great deal of time encouraging young men to learn to say “no” to women. To say it loudly and frequently. No to sex, no to marriage, no to parenthood, no to any sort of commitment to any woman. Thankyou for providing your support for that agenda even if that support is unintended. MGTOW grows apace and with women such as yourself as reference points who can blame them.

  61. Hans Laven says:

    Tiger Woods was very likely covering up for his wife. This article reports how the ambulance crew saw things, and points out that video surveillance footage was never made available to police, with weak excuses from Woods’ lawyer about the reasons for this. Mrs Woods claimed she smashed both back seat windows of his car with a golf club in order to unlock a door to get him out after he had hit the hydrant. An unlikely story. Why would she happen to have been carrying a golf club? If someone wanted to unlock a car door they would usually smash the door’s window. Much more likely that she attacked him with the club, he ran and drove for his life, she smashed the back windows as he drove away. Why else would he have hit a hydrant after 2:00am on the particular night that she found out about his affairs? According to attending police and no doubt to blood tests from the hospital, alcohol was not involved.

    Tiger Woods was described as lying on the street with significant injuries including being knocked unconscious, bleeding from his mouth and with lacerations to his face. But the crash had not been bad enough for the airbags to operate. Why would his wife pull him from the car on to the road when he was unconscious and injured? She would not have been able to lift him safely, and any idiot knows not to manhandle an injured person in case they have back or neck injuries.

    Whatever the particulars, you can be sure that if the gender tables had been turned in otherwise exactly the same circumstances, police would have prosecuted under domestic violence legislation that does not require any complainant.

  62. Skeptik says:

    Mary Poppins,
    Patience, keep trying to listen and you’ll get there.
    No need to be so hard on yourself.
    It’s not your fault you were born female at a time when the social zeitgeist fed you decades of anti-male propaganda which you now have to debunk before having any chance of getting close to thoughtful gentlemen.
    I’ll try my best to remain supportive and help you to understand men’s experience from a man’s perspective despite my feelings of dismay at the way men internationally are the disposable sex and my sense that you’re acting smug and superior as I read your posts.
    I’m sure it’s plain to see I’m not an optimist when it comes to NZ men getting equal rights any time soon and I view the situation internationally fairly much the same.
    I fully expect with the amount of energy being put into demonizing men it will mean a lifetime of constant trial for myself and other good kiwi men, but I try to remain cheerful in a distant sort of way.
    And oh lookie here just to confirm it UNICEF that most august international ‘humanitarian’ organization can’t be fussed with one sex, as they only give one sex it’s very own set of health data whilst ignoring the other sex who incidentally die 7% earlier. Hmmmmmmm, who looses out d’you think?
    I’ll give a hint – I googled ‘death rates women mexico’ and ‘death rates men mxico’.
    There were NO sites listed for the death rates of men in mexico.

    And I think to myself what a wonderful – Louis Armstrong (1901 – 1971)

    VAWA – Violence against women act.
    VAMA – Violence against men acceptable

  63. Skeptik says:

    Sorry,
    here’s the link I meant to add in my last post.

  64. And I think the Police did push very hard for that to happen, but Tiger Woods made it very very difficult, and probably did understand his wife’s “crime of passion”. But there are women that do exactly the same thing as Tiger, and much to the frustration of Police. The Police also know that if they are going to come up against a big legal team, it is just not worth it. There are no double standards here.

    Also, men go on about being falsely accused of various things. This is also balanced out by many women (and men) not reporting many many crimes, because they know what the result is already going to be given the status quo, and they don’t have the time to be called the brave one, when they know they are just most likely going to lose in court, because of a less high paid legal team or other prejudicial reasons…. The world is not too unbalanced when it comes to one gender vs. the other. We see what we want to see, and give our time accordingly.

  65. Scott B says:

    Yes Mary, you are a victim! sheesh!

  66. No, I am not. My husband has made sure I appear anything but, and I am not allowed to be a victim, or next minute I am told that I am not managing, and that I am unfit. So, no I am not allowed to be a victim, but I am allowed to be called a b_tch again and again… or if you even think about moving on, then you are a sl_t. If you are a “survivor” then you are a feminist. And if you say you are a traditionalist, then you are a b_tch and a feminist. So no I am not a victim. I am Mary Poppins. I am me.

  67. Scott B says:

    Take your man hate else where

  68. Skeptik says:

    Mary,
    Scott B said it in far less words than me.
    You have the brass nerve to come here a site SPECIFICALLY for getting a deeper understanding of men and men’s issues and you dishonor it. All I get from you is too much Me, Me, Wah, Wah, Men bad, Me, women good, Wah, Wah. I see you as a classic example of why this site exists and men NEED to vent….to connect with one another so that more don’t die horrible lonely alienated lives through suicide (the quick way or slower way through drug/alcohol abuse).
    Women in NZ have support that men can only dream of and will probably never see in their lifetime and meantime instead of going and getting some you come here and badmouth men and play the victim.
    For goodness sake I wish you would go and start your own blog. You reckon you’re a survivor, well please go and survive elsewhere.
    I think I can safely speak on behalf of several of us here who would agree we’re getting nothing that helps us to move forward with issues that are deeply concerning us about MEN. Your argumentative self righteousness just drags the whole process back. We men face enough women (and some men too) who are obsessed gynocentrics and couldn’t care about us men as it is without your harassment.
    That’s spelt M…E….N…. with an N on the end of the word.
    Comprendez???

  69. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to all

    A very simply solution Gentleman…And I am dearly serious on what I am going to say… Don’t get involve, or even think about marring a ‘Western European Woman’ anymore ..Let them fester with there Hatred of Men and Fathers of there Extreme social engineering Feminism…….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  70. rc says:

    Already onto it John – in our millions.

    It’s estimated that in Britain alone, over a million men have simply ‘disappeared’. That is, withdrawn from the gynocracy – not working as some woman’s personal slave, not paying taxes to the matriarchate, and not locked up in the feminist gulag. They’re quietly living their lives unmolested, avoiding contact with women and their collective husband the State.

    In the United States, the number of women who have never been married as a percentage of all women has been increasing every year for more than 30 years, so that they have only half the chance of finding a slave of their own compared to their mothers (and no, it’s not because women don’t want to get married – they’ll marry any sucker when all they need to do is divorce him afterwards and secure a piece of his property, future income and retirement plan. If he’s disabled because of military service, they can even have a piece of his disability pension! What a deal – a disability pension from the state, even though it was someone else who got his leg blown off)

    The stream of men heading for saner shores has already started. If this persecution goes on, I can see the poorer countries of the world seeing a big rise in standard of living as Western men take their skills, their sense of civic administration and what’s left of their money to more welcoming regimes.

    Ladies, you had better start training to dig your own sewers, rewire your own power cables after storms in the middle of a freezing winter night, nailing your own roofs back on after a hurricane, over-powering burly gangs of women who would rather just steal everything from you and fighting/dying in your own damn wars.

    At least you won’t have to invest in costly maternity services. The only new citizens you’ll get will be those landing at Auckland airport.

  71. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to rc

    ‘The only new citizens you’ll get will be those landing at Auckland airport.’…’Tongue in Cheek’….But these new Citizens,especially if ‘God Forbid’ they are ‘Men’ will of course have to be housed at ‘special retraining camps’ like they had in Nazi Germany and be reborn as… ‘Feminized’…. Men….

    Good post rc….kind regards John Dutchie

  72. Phoenix says:

    The differences between Western Women and non Western women.
    .

    All generalisations but you will get the idea.
    .
    .

    A western woman will try to change you……………..a non western women will treat you in a way so that you want to change for her.

    A western woman will be career focused……..a non western woman will be family focused.

    A western woman will earn money for herself……….a non western woman will earn money to help her family.

    A western woman will spend with wild abandon……a non western woman will be careful with the household finances so there is enough for everything that is needed.

    A western woman will argue and fight with you trying constantly to prove she is right……a non western woman will make quiet suggestions and gently guide you that way.

    A western woman will expect you to do half the housework and complain if you don’t………..a non western woman won’t expect you to do any housework, but will be grateful if you do; thereby making you actually want to do it to help her out.

    A western woman will marry for money……..a non western woman doesn’t care how much money you have as long as you have the right attitude.

    A western woman puts her job first………..a non western woman will only take a job if it contributes to her household, and would never dream of allowing her job to be a higher priority than her husband and children.

    A western woman will have kids with anyone, inside or outside of marriage……….a non western woman wants kids ONLY with her husband, and will want to be married before starting a family.

    A western woman’s idea of marriage commitment is 5 years at most……..a non western woman commits (most of the time) for life.

    A western woman wants a partner about the same age……..a non western woman doesn’t care if her husband is 10, 15 or even in some cases 20 years older than her, as long as he loves her and has the right attitude.

    A western woman feels empowered bullying her husband around……….a non western woman would never even consider such behaviour.

    A western woman will divorce without hesitation………a non western woman will divorce as a last resort, only if everything else has failed.

    A western woman has no pride in her appearance………a non western woman has great pride in how she looks.

    A western woman thinks that strength comes from ignoring that men an women are different…….a non western woman happily accepts the differences, encourages her man to be masculine, and celebrates her femininity.

    A western woman wants to dominate and control her man and orders him around……..a non western woman knows she has far more influence by making him think he is in control and gently and patiently guides him.

    A western woman will consume all your time and burn you out, and then complain when your health collapses……….a non western woman will take care of her own health as well as yours.

    A western woman thinks that cooking means using packet food and in most cases has no idea about healthy nutritious food…….a non western woman actually knows how to cook real food, and has a collection of delicious and nutritious recipes.

    A western woman isn’t house-proud……..a non western woman is always very house-proud.

    A western woman will put little effort into her marriage……….a non western woman will put everything she can into making her marriage work.

    A western woman has no idea about how to raise kids……..a non western woman learnt all the best strategies on child rearing from her mother.

    A western woman will want you to earn good money so she can spend it, and so she can get a good amount of money when she divorces you……….a non western woman will want you to earn good money so you will provide well for your family, and has no intention of ever divorcing you.

    A western woman is macho and tough……..a non western woman is feminine and gorgeous.

    A western woman has grown up surrounded with abundance and yet has a victim mentality…….a non western woman has often had to deal with genuine adversity in her life, and makes the most of what she has with a grateful attitude.

    A western woman views children as an expense and inconvenience……….a non western woman views children as an essential part of family.

    A western woman often doesn’t want to have children, frequently delaying having a family until her body is no longer capable…… a non western woman always wants to have children, and expects children to be part of a normal family.

    A western woman is in the relationship only thinking of herself……….a non western woman is thinking of herself, her husband, her kids……..

    A western woman uses sex as a weapon and makes love with half her heart………a non western woman would never dream of using sex as a weapon, her heart is totally committed to her husband, and she makes love with every fibre of her being.
    .
    .
    And lastly……
    .
    A western woman is NOT worth the time and effort……..a non western woman is worth WHATEVER you have to do to be together.
    .
    Find a REAL WOMAN from the FSU (Former Soviet Union) or Asia and you will NEVER bother with a western woman again.

  73. John Dutchie says:

    Reply to Phoenix

    …..Beautifully said Phoenix…And I would like to add my two cents worth on this subject…Asia Woman and Eastern European Woman still have that wonderfully Femininity quality,that I will always honor, respect and cherish…

    Not this ‘Nazi’ style of this ‘Feminist’ attitude that Western European Woman seem to have now…….

    Come on Kiwi Woman, and Kiwi Feminists,I know you are there observing and reading the posts on here on the Menz forum, especially from ‘The Ministry of Woman’s affair’ .

    No I will correct that on ‘The Ministry of Nazi Woman’s Affairs’ is my name for that government department…

    Bet you are all frothing at the mouth…Well then ..???..let it rip,if you want too…I am all hears,so say your piece… I have very broad shoulders,thick skin like a ‘T-Rex’ after surviving 25 years of your Evil Feminism social engineering….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

  74. Dave says:

    Hence we put up with all manner of male denigration and anti-male sexism in law, jurisprudence, state services, advertising and business practice even though discrimination on the grounds of gender is supposedly banned under the Bill of Rights.

    So true.
    I also think the answer is in educating men and teenagers to avoid relationships with Kiwi women. There is already a man drought but NZ women are not getting the message. We need to educate young men in particular to be more selective. Let them know they are outnumbered and so have more choices. I think this is the most effective way to reverse the extreme feminism of NZ and the terrible consequences of it.

  75. Phoenix says:

    Yes agreed John.

    I’ve described Kiwi women for a long time as “men with fannies and breasts”.

    The reason for this description is simple. They dress in men’s clothes, they walk like men, they talk like men, they move like men, they have career focus like men.

    And then they can’t understand why men aren’t particularly interested in them. Occasionally a woman in NZ will actually have that feminie mystique that you have mentioned, that they have not lost in non-feminised countries. But she will become quickly overwhelmed by the amount of male attention she recieves and invariably turns into a super bitch. Hence it’s common knowledge that attractive NZ chicks are total bitches, and that the ones that are nicer are always the less attractive ones. Not that I am recommending any guy date a NZ woman at all.

    As soon as you start to look outside of Western countries you start to realise how macho NZ women really are, especially when you encounter feminine mystique as normal.

    So is there a man shortage in New Zealand? I don’t believe there is. Oh sure based on genitalia there may be. But the big problem I see is a total lack of real women and a huge abundance of trans-genders who haven’t had the sex change operation yet.

  76. Scott B says:

    Children are smarter than feminazis. Ask a bunch of kids whether men and women should be treated equally or if one should get special treatment and they will answer “equally”.

    Feminists dont want this!

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