MENZ ISSUES

MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Angry father smashes up CYF office

Filed under: Sex Abuse / CYF — Bruce S @ 7:07 pm Tue 8th November 2011

Full story here:

NZ Herald: Angry father smashes up CYF office

It amazes me we don’t see more incidents like this. Whilst none of us condone violent and intrusive actions such as these; it is not difficult to comprehend the aggravation and despair that drove this man to remonstrate against the high handed, totally non-empathetic attitude of CYFS staff when dealing with the complex issue of tearing families apart.

48 Comments »

  1. Before jumping to this guy’s defence (or outright condemnation) wouldn’t it be more appropriate to comment when ALL the facts are known rather than taking the brief report at face value?
    For example, why was CYFS involved with his family? Does he (or the mother, the mother’s new partner) have a history of violence or other form of abuse? These and many other questions need posing and answering before ANY judgments are made about the event.
    What is clear however is that every case like this (however ‘justifiable’ or ‘understandable’ some might view it), puts back the cause of caring , loving non custodial fathers by another age! We all get tarred by the same brush.
    I think I speak with some justification as a non custodial father who has been denied contact with my three children for the last 4 years by a vindictive ex! The rightness of our cause is best exemplified by continued reasoned, balanced and justifiable arguments……….. If it turns out that this guy has justified reasons that mitigate his actions I will be the first to support him!!!

    Comment by Kelvin Dunn — Tue 8th November 2011 @ 8:33 pm

  2. poor bloke was shafted by gender bias sick system!

    So it continues…………

    Comment by norman lark — Tue 8th November 2011 @ 8:41 pm

  3. Kelvin; your points are well taken and as you suggest we do not have all the facts as yet. I don’t believe I was defending his actions; merely suggesting I could empathize. I was briefly separated from my daughter by CYFS (wrongly) and have nothing but contempt for them and the way they (mis)manage their roles and responsibilities. Their actions are “above the law”, you (men mostly) are guilty until proven innocent, you are treated with utter arrogance and total dis-respect. It amazes me that New Zealand allows this organization to prosper; so many great parents and families have been totally trashed by this bunch of thugs. The CYFSWATCH site (now shut down) was absolutely awash with heartbreaking stories from families terrorized by the total abuse of power wielded by CYFS all in the name of what? What is their role? Whatever it is, it’s an abysmal failure. Again; I cannot believe that thinking New Zealanders allow this tyranny to thrive in this country. Our successive governments have a lot to answer for!

    Comment by Bruce S — Tue 8th November 2011 @ 9:15 pm

  4. my x has 2 sexually abusive males in her family..both have been investigated and both times cypf has deemed it safe for my girls to be in a house with them and my x lets them look after my girls alone and when i want something done about it i dont have a leg to stand on even though i have share custody of them and have natural guardianship rights..at the end of the day its all written on paper one may as well wipe thier arse with

    Comment by Ford — Wed 9th November 2011 @ 7:57 am

  5. my x tried all this supervised access shit on me till she realized it was a major drama on her part to keep up with all the running round and organising..told more lies to have it dismissed

    Comment by Ford — Wed 9th November 2011 @ 8:04 am

  6. Bruce, thanks heaps for making this post.

    I am aware I am not meant to be off-topic but someone has to say there’s more to the picture.

    I am not sure what some men are doing cause they once said to me there’s more but hate me when I say it. (oops, I do get this 🙂 )
    But men wrote. “Stay, there’s more.”

    Anyways, it’s a shame the NZ men;s movement on facebook isn’t promoted cause they have a better article on this.

    ……….

    On topic…. Yeah, what I said came true and the next day. On the day beforehand a man went to drive through the building we were protesting outside.

    Comment by julie — Wed 9th November 2011 @ 2:52 pm

  7. “Whilst none of us condone violent and intrusive actions such as these…” I dunno. I don’t have a problem with it. I think we all should be doing more of the same.

    Comment by Darryl X — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 3:03 pm

  8. Darryl X says:

    I think we all should be doing more of the same.

    Who will benefit if another desperate dad follows your advice?

    Not the father, that’s for sure.

    And not the child either.

    Law enforcement agents, lawyers, social workers and probably a psychologist will get more work, and men’s collective reputation will suffer.

    Just who’s interests do you represent Darryl?

    Comment by JohnPotter — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 4:16 pm

  9. Well said John.

    Comment by Allan Harvey — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 4:36 pm

  10. some men are in deep enough holes without making them any deeper

    Comment by Ford — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 7:37 pm

  11. #8,9,10.
    Agreed.
    I afraid that promoting violence just plays into feminist’s hands and lowers ourselves to their level, even as they regularly and with impunity demonize masculinity.
    There are, in these days of myspace, facebook, twitter etc simpler and fairly effective ways of bringing to folks attention the misdeeds of the violent when the police won’t act responsibly to protect good menfolk.
    Then natural justice ensues.

    Comment by Skeptic — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 8:11 pm

  12. I think if one wishes to promote violence, it is more sincere to be an example than a mouthpiece. Otherwise, one comes across as wanting others to sacrifice themselves to promote one’s own interests.

    Comment by rc — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 8:20 pm

  13. but i like being a mouth

    Comment by Ford — Thu 10th November 2011 @ 8:53 pm

  14. If men continue to be abused while also being exploited, if their role in their children’s lives continues to be trashed by a State that arrogantly thinks it knows better because of some feminist claims, theories and shonky research, then inevitably men will eventually fight back. Men are brave and strong, and they will sacrifice themselves when they see injustice sufficiently clearly (indeed, they sacrifice themselves in large numbers anyway through doing the work that maintains the infrastructure of human socieities, and of course in wars). The only reason men haven’t started fighting back in large numbers is that feminists have been able to deceive and to manipulate them so effectively to date, especially their male leaders. One downside of democracy has been that male leaders have to pander to the voting block who think their own interests are served through false feminist ideology.

    One of my main motivations in participating in the men’s movement is to reduce the intensity and violence of the revolution that will inevitably occur. The longer it takes for leaders and society in general to acknowledge and to reverse misandrist disrespect and exploitation, the more violent that revolution will be and the further the pendulum will swing back to the other side thereby creating further injustice.

    Unfortunately, instead of listening our state leaders are equipping its agents more and more in preparation for the revolution. We see police given military outfits with automatic weapons, having their powers increased rapidly to spy on citizens and to undertake state-sponsored home invasions with cursory judicial oversight (or none at all on an increasing number of grounds). But as we have seen in recent middle-astern revolutions, the state will have to be prepared to kill men ruthlessly and even then the power of the people can prevail.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 9:05 am

  15. We see police given military outfits with automatic weapons, having their powers increased rapidly to spy on citizens and to undertake state-sponsored home invasions with cursory judicial oversight (or none at all on an increasing number of grounds).

    …Cursory judicial oversight is the primary modus operandi of CYFS; thankfully they don’t (currently) have access to automatic weapons! CYFS have demonstrated quite adequately that they have the ability to abuse all members of the family. When a man see’s his family threatened; he will act in whatever way he deems necessary to protect his family. Irrespective of legislation; the instinct to protect will ultimately prevail.

    Comment by Bruce S — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 9:26 am

  16. Sorry, everyone.

    Comment by Darryl X — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 11:07 am

  17. #15..the system expects men to ingnore what comes natural..if a man failed to protect his family and they came to harm..that would go agaisnt you as well

    Comment by Ford — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 12:12 pm

  18. It’s interesting to speculate what future generations of men will do to deal with the misandric feminist-chivalrous complex.
    I have a hunch that whilst some men will actively oppose, others will do as I notice from my travels many men are doing in Japan, USA, Germany and UK.
    Men in those countries are simply and consciously dramatically decreasing their productivity. They’ve decided society treats them like shit so they withdraw their investment in society.
    It makes total sense, and terrifies big government and feminists who can do nothing about it.
    These savvy men realize that there’s no point in working hard to get ahead, build a family, leave a large material legacy for offspring and future generations – when the whole social system spanning education, health, reproduction, family relations and parenthood, and taxation vis a vis state representation so horribly doesn’t address their issues or is outright rigged against them.
    In being so disincentivized these men are withdrawing their energy by either staying where they are but downshifting (it’s remarkable how simply and enjoyably folks can live if they put their minds to it) or moving offshore to places where they have a sense of being more valued.
    Either way they get to kick back and watch the whole corrupt edifice collapse under it’s own weight.
    They recognize that civilizations are built on the backs of men’s sweat and problem solving.
    Remove that energy and civilizations crumble.
    And some men are even saying in a sardonic way – Thank you feminists – Your hatred of men gave us the perfect reason to give up old fashioned expectations which cater to others (manning up) and go our own way – and aside from feminist oppression we’ve never felt so liberated.

    Comment by Skeptic — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 2:13 pm

  19. #18..i have no incentive or desire to better myself..why should i when it will get taken off me..whats the point

    Comment by Ford — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 2:43 pm

  20. Take my kids away ’cause the Mrs tells lies to pigs.

    Game over, suicide is painless, so they say…..

    Comment by norman lark — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 7:46 pm

  21. is that where the saying ‘telling porkies’ came from?

    Comment by Ford — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 8:42 pm

  22. Hi Norman (#20); the game is called “psycho chess” – a classic where wife doesn’t get her own way. Opening move; get to him by using the children as pawns. Wife involves “authority figures” without thinking through the consequences. If you follow the moves; like a game of chess you’ll know that bringing the big guns (authority figures) into the game too early is a recipe for disaster. I’m sure many of the men on this forum can relate to this game. What your wife has overlooked here are the importance of the pawns (your kids). She, in an insane moment, has ignored the relevance of her pawns to the game. So instead of her having a strong defensive force in the front lines; the kids are now, in all probability, thinking there’s something wrong with mum. They’ll be asking themselves; “how do we get back to dad”? So, the game is no where near over; your kids want to see what you can do for them. Not what you can do to get back at mum. And of course, suicide means pain for the kids and an automatic resignation from the game; meaning the kids have no chance of getting what they want.

    Comment by Bruce S — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 9:50 pm

  23. Bruce.
    If I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, I apologise! I hope I haven’t offended you: that was not my intent!
    Having been through the Family Court/Child Support systems many times over the last 10 years I fully understand where most correspondents come from when they highlight their many failings. That said, my point is that despite the way the corrupt systems operate there is nothing to be gained by anyone spilling invective and bile or being emotive about ‘the system’ or the perceived ‘injustice’ underpinning their personal circumstances! No one, whether in Government, Family Law Practice, associated disciplines like Pschologists, or the uninformed general public give any credence to those fathers who denigrate mothers or blame ‘the system’ for their situation. Quite the reverse.
    There is much more to be gained by being impassionate, sensible, cogent, reasoned and unemotive about the defects and failings of ‘the system’ be it Family Court or Child Support and the whole of the female gender.
    Like most, I have much justification in speaking unfavourably about all of this. But I think I have achieved much more by being reasoned and sensible when I have felt the urge to speak out.
    For example, apart from having letters published regularly over the last 10 years in various publications my letters have been published in each edition of the Sunday Star Times over the last 3 weeks – one of which was the Feature Letter of the week – , was invited by that same paper to contribute an article about the new child support formula proposals in early September 2010 (shelved because of the Christchurch earthquake that occurred a little while later), had a letter published in the North & South Magazine about 4 years ago about childrens care post relationship breakdown (which was the Letter Of The Month) and so on.
    I wonder how many correspondents here have commented sensibly, constructively and without emotion on the new child support proposals or the current Review of the Faily Court. I suspect few, if any! If they haven’t they MUST therefore take some responsibility for the position they are in. If anyone feels strongly about the various inequities and the lack of genuine concern for the welfare and best interests of their/our children they MUST broadcast that fact at EVERY opportunity. Not to do so condemns their/our children to a life without a caring loving father being involved in their care and upbringing. Our strength is our just cause expressed regularly with reason and on sound facts. Our weakness is spilling invective and bile, expressing self pity and having an overt hatred of the female gender!

    Comment by Kelvin Dunn — Fri 11th November 2011 @ 10:53 pm

  24. http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Zealand-Family-Court-Stories/195310380525508?sk=info#!/pages/New-Zealand-Family-Court-Stories/195310380525508?sk=wall

    Comment by Steve Taylor — Sat 12th November 2011 @ 9:09 pm

  25. Hi Kelvin (#23); absolutely no offense taken. Your actions, writing letters and submissions on the new child support proposals and the review of the Family Court are to be commended. I do note however that, by your own admission, you have been denied contact with your children for 4 years now. So; the effectiveness of submissions and letter writing must be called into question. You refer to the “the way the corrupt systems operate” and then expect that letters and submissions will influence that system? I suspect a number of the contributors here have exhausted themselves using a reasoned, non-emotive and detached approach to seeking resolutions to their issues.

    My own (family) experience, albeit brief, with CYFS still leaves me with a hatred and disdain that can never be banished. There is absolutely no way I will tolerate the humiliating treatment of my wife, daughter or myself, ever again. I cannot bring myself to write in any balanced, non emotive way, a submission to any “corrupt” review body that has no interest whatsoever other than maintaining the staus quo at the expense of New Zealand families.

    Comment by Bruce S — Sun 13th November 2011 @ 12:00 pm

  26. Bruce

    When there is a lone voice crying in the wilderness obviously it has little impact. But it keeps our cause in the public arena and makes some people think about the other side of the case. I have had many people phone me after reading my correspondence and after talking to me most have acknowledged there is another side to all of this after all and that the apologist supporters of “the system” inevitable are those who have never been through it!
    The point I was trying to make (obviously badly) is that if everyone who feels so strongly about the injustice etc were to expend their energies in the right direction and keep our cause very high profile then we might stsrt to get real progress and bring NZ law kicking and screaming into 21st century reality. The media won’t react to my admonishments alone and I recognise that fact. But it doesn’t stop me trying! But they might have a rethink if enough noise was made consistently be enough people, ideally at the same time!
    I have not been involved with CYFS, but what I have heard from others who have (like you) their experiences were to say the least “unpleasant and debilitating”. On that basis I empathise with you and understand your reluctance to communicate with those who oversee the FC and CS. But you have a voice and I would urge you (and others) to use it, if not to the ‘authorities’ then to magazines like North & South which seems to have a social conscience. Failure to speak out publicly means that “the system” will continue to prevail.

    Comment by Kelvin Dunn — Sun 13th November 2011 @ 5:57 pm

  27. I have given up on the Femily court system. I have been fighting the gender bias scum for 10 years.

    Bye bye children,sad,sad,sad, thanks filthy corrupt judge……………….

    Comment by norman lark — Sun 13th November 2011 @ 6:12 pm

  28. Hi Kelvin (#26); the sad fact is that there is a “collective of lone voices” who have lost faith in their ability to lobby sensibility from the Ministry of Social Development and the Family Court; whether it be directly, through the media or indeed via litigation. Combine the entrenched power of the bureaucracy, couple it with feeble government generating poorly drafted legislation supported by an eager cartel of legal agencies willing to disregard human rights, for a fee; and there you have it; no imperative to change.

    This was so forcefully demonstrated when “labor” had google shut down the CYFSWATCH site in 2007. The “collective voices on CYFSWATCH” (many of whom had some validity in their complaints), were exposing the blatant disregard for basic legal, human and family rights of the government of the day. The global embarrassment is what forced the government to act. Rather than attempting to remedy the source(s) of complaints, they chose to hush the voice(s) of protest. Perhaps this may give you some insight as to why we just can’t be bothered writing letters anymore?

    Comment by Bruce S — Sun 13th November 2011 @ 8:18 pm

  29. isnt life one big head game

    Comment by Ford — Mon 14th November 2011 @ 7:02 am

  30. Greetings,

    This is the first draft of the Family Court Stories Family Court Review submission. The final day for submissions to the Ministry of Justice is 29/02/12, and I am now seeking feedback from interested / affected parties on this submission. This submission includes a comprehensive (and very frightening) Family Court Case Study to balance the academic literature and “bring to life” the real world experience of many families and individuals who are service consumers of the Family Court. I am nominating 01/01/12 as the final date for comments and feedback on this FCS Submission. Comments, advice, and feedback is welcome: http://familycourtstories.word​press.com/2011/11/14/family-co​urt-stories-family-court-revie​w-submission-draft/

    Comment by Steve Taylor — Mon 14th November 2011 @ 3:50 pm

  31. PS: CYFSWATCH is still active – the Government were not ever successful in shutting it down – see here: http://watchingcyfs.wordpress.com/category/cyfswatch-hall-of-shame/

    Comment by Steve Taylor — Mon 14th November 2011 @ 3:51 pm

  32. 3#!..cyfswatch is getting a bit stale..2007?

    Comment by Ford — Mon 14th November 2011 @ 4:21 pm

  33. The link below is to an interesting article at Fathers and Families concerning recent developments with domestic violence law in the US. There is reference to Oregon’s shared parenting bill and fall-out from that, as it promoted an increase in claims of domestic violence and child abuse by mothers. There also is reference to recent and draconian changes to standards of evidence at university concerning claims by women of sexual assault and other crimes. The article illustrates the extreme resistance by feminists to mens rea and habeus corpus and other fundamental underpinnings of law (not to mention common sense).

    http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?p=21183

    Comment by Darryl X — Tue 15th November 2011 @ 4:35 am

  34. @Skeptik re #18 – I agree that governments are terrified at the prospect of men withdrawing from society, as many men are realizing there are no benefits of society for them anymore. That is why many governments are compelling or forcing the participation of men and preempting their withdrawal – SLAVERY! Governments have made withdrawing very unattractive and difficult by leaving few choices but participation. Either participate or go to prison, suicide, be homeless, or go into exile as an illegal somewhere (or any combination of the above). These circumstances truly are the definition of fascism. Below is a link to an article at Zero Hedge about our circumstances as they are defined economically. But seeing where feminism and child support and destruction of families fits into it is not difficult.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/introduction-road-through-2012-revolution-or-world-war-iii

    Comment by Darryl X — Tue 15th November 2011 @ 5:36 am

  35. I am an invisible father,
    I left the family home 18 months ago and have two great kids who I adore, 13 and 17, unfortunately neither want to see me and my ex reiterates the fact by simply supporting them in whatever they wish. Over this period it’s got worse not better. To the point now where I get the odd one line email from one and nothing from the other.
    I was a great father, worked hard, never violent or abusive, showed nothing but love, but fell out of love with my wife, something I had no control over.
    There is not a court ithe land that supports me when the kids get above 11 , I pay half my salary every month on time plus more for the kids when needed, I pay half the mortgage so they can stay in the house, minimul disruption.
    Whenever I asked for help to see the kids the answer was simple, they decide and I stand by there decision, so now I don’t exist, and have even been told my youngest doesn’t remember the good times, only me texting. I don’t know what there doing at school, iv been told I’m no longer considered a guardian , I find out about events after the fact , or used to , now I just don’t find out.
    There is nothing I can do , I love those kids and would give my life for them, but now there is no opportunity to. Even get a text.
    Family court counselling said tough basically they make there own minds up,
    So there you have it, for the price of falling out of love I lost everything
    I hope maybe one day they may want a dad again but right now I may as well not exist. The system sucks when your ex hates your guts and all you did was fall out of love.

    Comment by Mr cellphone — Tue 15th November 2011 @ 7:46 am

  36. Hi Ford: if you click the links the domain map will take you to the latest version of CYFWATCH, although they do pale into comparison compared to the original CYFWATCH. They need to reload the Hall of Shame and update it by inagurating some new members 🙂

    Comment by Steve Taylor — Tue 15th November 2011 @ 4:04 pm

  37. @ Steve Taylor, To clarify a point, Watching CYFSWATCH is not the original cyfswatch found at cyfswatch.org. The list owner aka kiwi1960 had serious health issues a bit over 12 months ago and abruptly closed CYFSTALK. from that face book page “Child Protection Services, the Victims democratic page” is now growing!

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 15th November 2011 @ 11:15 pm

  38. This has raised some “Different” issues. See https://www.facebook.com/pages/Child-Protection-Services-the-Victims-democratic-page/189444554470359. The perpetrator is an Iraqi refugee. He is going to be tried in an alien culture by standards he wont understand. CYF most certainly is not multi cultural, even I will go so so far to say this man will not even understand the language (Maori?) being spoken, or the process. Much better to be in a mosque, (I have seen them!, even seen them holding open afternoons so the local community can understand the tenets of Islam) and conducted in front of an Imman. A much fairer arrangement – or is that not what is wanted by the Refuge and CYF! My first reaction is this Social worker got her due!

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 17th November 2011 @ 11:06 pm

  39. I dont blame this guy..i’m currently having to deal with cyfs due to my partner playing with my son and then his younger brother kicking him in the face – this they classify as child abuse I just hope that it gets sorted out FAST but at this stage looks like I wont be seeing or spending Christmas or New Years with my partner till this bs accusation is over. Has anyone else had a similar problem?! Im finding it difficult finding anything on the net

    Comment by Jamie — Sat 26th November 2011 @ 3:55 pm

  40. CYFSWATCh has stated it is closing.

    The members of the group 38 have been around since the mid 90’s!

    What area of the country are you in? Post your email, they contact you & edit it to keep it confidential!

    Comment by Skeptic2 — Sat 26th November 2011 @ 5:48 pm

  41. Sorry, the operator of CYFSWATCH (Kiwi1960) gave up last year (2010) He closed Cyfstalk! On face book they keep saying they are closing but never do. They have a link to another site – It is badly fragmented!

    Comment by Skeptic2 — Sat 26th November 2011 @ 5:52 pm

  42. Post #40 & #41 are from someone other than the original, the one and only, the true call a spade a spade anti-feminist – pro-male – SKEPTIC.

    I have no idea who this pretender to the illustrious title is, nor what they’re up to regarding CYSTWatch.

    Comment by Skeptic — Sat 26th November 2011 @ 8:51 pm

  43. Can you name the progenitor of cyfswatch, cyfstalk, and Political Kiwi? Plus its origins

    Comment by Skeptic2 — Sat 26th November 2011 @ 8:54 pm

  44. Troll alert.

    Comment by The original SKEPTIC — Sat 26th November 2011 @ 9:01 pm

  45. Or worse than a troll, it seems sinister for someone to ask for people’s locations and emails.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 27th November 2011 @ 8:05 am

  46. Yes Hans,
    I agree – sinister.
    The targeting of MRA isn’t uncommon.
    Just another sign of increasing feminist desperation because our message is getting through.

    Comment by The original SKEPTIC — Sun 27th November 2011 @ 3:45 pm

  47. @Ford, good try but a pork pie is cockney rhyming for lie.

    Man pleads guilty: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6235561/Man-pleads-guilty-to-CYF-rampage-charges

    Comment by Down Under — Tue 10th January 2012 @ 11:53 am

  48. #47..What?

    Comment by Ford — Tue 10th January 2012 @ 7:34 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

«     »
Skip to toolbar